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How to Locate Cylinder in Groove
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* October 14, 2019, 02:53:09 PM
Hi guys.  I'm working on a bracket that requires me to locate a cylinder in a groove at a specific location.  I have an object that is 4mm thick with an 8mm diameter groove cut into one edge.  I want to locate an 8mm diameter cylinder in the groove with one of the cylinder bases at a specific location along the length of the groove.

I've been able to draw the cylinder in the groove, but, since I'm going to have multiple cylinders (actually, cylindrical shapes with some additional details) in multiple grooves, it will be much easier if I can make just one of the cylindrical objects and copy and move into the various locations.

I've tried a number of techniques, but the cylinder just ends up everywhere but in the groove.

Here's where I'm working.  I want to put the cylinder in the groove so it lies flush along the groove with one base at location "A".

Appreciate any suggestions.

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October 14, 2019, 03:54:30 PM
#1
First off, location "A" is not in a groove.

Try this sequence:
1. Set Workplace by Facet and click on one of the two ends of the Cylinder.
2. Set View / Camera / Plan / By Workplane (how you do this depends on the User Interface you have selected; I use Default and that is the path through the drop-down menu hierarchy)
3. Position the cursor over the SNAP button on the bottom of the TurboCAD window and right-click.
4. In the Drawing Aids popup, make sure that the Auto Workplane by Face radio button is active, then click OK.
5. Select the Single Line drawing function and use the Vertex Snap feature to set the beginning and end points of the lines to points on the perimeter of the flat face.  You want them to cross in the center of the Cylinder's face.
6. Select the Cylinder and select Edit Reference Point (easiest way to do this is to press the 'd' key, but you can also right-click and select the option from the popup).  Position the cursor over the intersection of the two lines and press the key to perform an Intersection Snap.  Alternatively, you can activate this function in the Drawing Aids popup (you'll have to make sure that No Snap is not selected at the top of the popup).
7. Now, you can move the Cylinder by clicking on it, then clicking on its Reference Point.
8. Position your cursor where you want the Cylinder to be moved and perform a snap (it is best if there is a point, or end of a line, or something that has an end - or center - and snap to that.
9. If necessary, rotate the Cylinder into alignment.
10. With the Cylinder selected, right-click and select Rubber Stamp.
11. Click at the other places where you want an end of a Cylinder.
12. When you have all of the Cylinders approximately where you want them to be, right-click again and de-select Rubber Stamp.
13. Rotate each Cylinder as needed using the axes that are connected to the Reference Points.

Have fun.

Jeff

« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 07:48:18 PM by Jeffin90620 »

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TC Pro Platinum 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* October 14, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
#2
Posting your file in the earliest version yours will save to lets more forum people, with earlier versions of TC, potentially offer advice or the assistance you need. 

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* October 14, 2019, 06:55:23 PM
#3
First off, location "A" is not in a groove.

Correct.  I was just attempting to show the approximate desired location for the cylinder base.

Attached is the drawing in Version 2015 (lowest my 2018 appears to save).

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October 14, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
#4
There's probably half-a-dozen or more good ways of accomplishing what you are trying to do.  Some limited to Professional or ProfessonalPlatinum edition only.
Art, are you still using 2018 Deluxe?

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 14, 2019, 09:55:14 PM
#5
Yes, still 2018 Deluxe - should have stated that in the beginning.

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October 14, 2019, 10:44:13 PM
#6
Yes, still 2018 Deluxe - should have stated that in the beginning.

I deduced that from the Cylinder's shape (several flat panels instead of one curved surface) and wrote my guide to fit.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* October 15, 2019, 06:32:13 AM
#7
I would use a TC constructive solid geometry workflow from the start instead of trying to fit things up afterwards.  Something like this:  Make a cylinder 8mm diameter, random height.  Select it and press D to edit the selector point, default is at geometric centre of object, tab into delta Z and move the selector point minus 1/2 cylinder height to put the reference point at its centre on the base.  Still selected, tab into rotate Y, 90° and enter.  Release selection, then re-select (should stop UCS axial confusion), check "make copy" in right-click or Inspector bar context menu, tab into rotate Z, 140° and enter, which should give another cylinder rotated 140° relative to the first, axes on the workplane.  Draw the profile of the triangular part, the sides to be grooved along the axes of the cylinders, then simple extrude 2mm, double-sided.  Select both cylinders and in selection info palette, give them any height that'll extend past the block edges, then 3D subtract the cylinders from the extrusion, checking "don't remove the subtrahend" at bottom left of the drawing window.  That creates the groove along the edges.  In selection info palette, you can select and specify the cylinders' height.  The cylinders, which have their bases at the intersection of their grooves, can be moved anywhere.  The cylinder lying along the x axis is easily moved with the delta X box of the inspector bar, vector copy for the other with distance and 140° angle as the parameters is what I used to use when I started out with TC V5 designer way back before the turn of the century, it's still good and you've got transform tools too, today (he wrote alliteratively).  One thing I'd do with deluxe is set the cylinders' surface options "number of approximation lines" to 16 from 14, or to some other product of four, because otherwise you won't get consistent radiis at the quadrants. 

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October 15, 2019, 08:20:18 AM
#8
... it's still good and you've got transform tools too, today (he wrote alliteratively).  One thing I'd do with deluxe is set the cylinders' surface options "number of approximation lines" to 16 from 14, or to some other product of four, because otherwise you won't get consistent radiis at the quadrants.

Murray knows. So. Much. Stuff.

alliteratively... heard of it, but had to look it up.

And the thing about the "... product of four"??-- who knew?  Murray does.

______
As I said, many ways of achieving what you are trying to achieve Art; the go-to often being just whatever procedures first comes to one's mind and/or has developed as a first-go-to habit.  I'd go about it a different way than Jeff and Murray described; my way would be faster (for me), because it would come as second-nature to me, due to my ingrained TurboCAD knowledge* and habits.

*(after almost two decades of TurboCADing, there are still many Tools and features I either don't know about or just never got into the habit of using)

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


October 15, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
#9
Attached shows how I went about it.  It's just the first way that came to me.

SHOOT!... I had a HECK of a time just modeling the "... have an object that is 4mm thick with an 8mm diameter groove cut into one edge" (I overlooked the "one edge" aspect).  Still didn't get it perfect; it's hard in Deluxe.  Curved 3D objects are hard to get perfect in Deluxe.
It's (the groove Subtraction and getting the Cylinder insertion near-perfect) a lot tougher in Deluxe, due to the faceting limitations, if one wants it nearly perfect.  In Deluxe, with curved objects, one has to be mindful of where the facets are, their vertex lines, and when 3D Subtracting, make sure the objects' (the Cylinder, in this case) facets correspond with those of the Subtraction.

Anyway...  One of the half-dozen-and-more methods of going about it...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 05:19:00 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 15, 2019, 06:04:35 PM
#10
In Deluxe you can make a smooth cylinder by applying a 3D Thickness to a 2D Circle.

Henry H

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October 15, 2019, 06:13:42 PM
#11
In Deluxe you can make a smooth cylinder by applying a 3D Thickness to a 2D Circle.

Henry H

Yeah, I thought so too.  It seems to be the case, in appearance.
In version-19-Deluxe, when I Explode a Circle with Height assigned, there are 60 segments/facets.
Before Exploding, if we Zoom in real close, sure enough, we can see them.  And, if we have Running Snap Vertex & Magnetic Point active and try to Insert something and hover over that Circle, sure enough, we see all the "vertexes".   I didn't catch that until today.

I thought maybe pre-setting the 3D Cylinder Tool to 88 Approximation Lines would apply to the 2D entities later drawn, but no.
______
And I tried Murray's suggestion of Inserting a multi-sided Polygon (176 sides), assigning that some Height; but I didn't like the lines we end up with at the nodes".

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 15, 2019, 06:54:23 PM
#12
In Deluxe you can make a smooth cylinder by applying a 3D Thickness to a 2D Circle.

Henry H

Yeah, I thought so too.  It seems to be the case, in appearance.
In version-19-Deluxe, when I Explode a Circle with Height assigned, there are 60 segments/facets.
Before Exploding, if we Zoom in real close, sure enough, we can see them.  And, if we have Running Snap Vertex & Magnetic Point active and try to Insert something and hover over that Circle, sure enough, we see all the "vertexes".   I didn't catch that until today.

I thought maybe pre-setting the 3D Cylinder Tool to 88 Approximation Lines would apply to the 2D entities later drawn, but no.
______
And I tried Murray's suggestion of Inserting a multi-sided Polygon (176 sides), assigning that some Height; but I didn't like the lines we end up with at the nodes".

I stand corrected. Thanks, Alvin.

Henry H

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* October 15, 2019, 06:59:21 PM
#13
The final product will be 3d printed in PLA, on my Anet A8 printer.  The "cylinders" will actually be sockets to hold 1/4 inch fiberglass rods - so will be hollow, and include a slight taper section at the open end.  They will also be designed with the intent to drill/ream to the final inside diameter.

I'll be playing around with prototypes of the sockets to make sure they are strong enough.  Thus the need to be able to plug different socket designs into the body of the clip.

I don't know if my 3d printer will be able to "see" the difference between a perfect fit between two perfectly round surfaces vs. a somewhat sloppy fit between two multi-segmented curved surfaces.  The most important thing initially is that the sockets are aligned with the bracket body and in proper orientation.   I'll find out about the curve-to-curve fit when I print out the prototype and do some strength testing.

What I'm doing now is trying to learn the steps I'll be taking to do the actual design.  Fitting the sockets to the main body of the bracket looks to be the most challenging (at least right now).

I now have a good menu of techniques to work on - as one of you guys said, the best way is the one you are most comfortable with.

Appreciate all the input.  When I get a final design and printed out prototype I'll post it.

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October 15, 2019, 08:04:18 PM
#14
The final product will be 3d printed in PLA, on my Anet A8 printer.  The "cylinders" will actually be sockets to hold 1/4 inch fiberglass rods - so will be hollow, and include a slight taper section at the open end.  They will also be designed with the intent to drill/ream to the final inside diameter.
...

Something similar to below, I assume.
By formatting the Cylinders to be Blocks, I was able to quickly change all the Block Insertions to something that was as you described (I messed up on the bottom end of them-- got their bottom thickness too shallow-- but that's okay for here).

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 15, 2019, 09:15:26 PM
#15
I think Henry's suggestion would be even quicker, TC booleans between thickened figures happily, and TC ought to be calculating the geometry of a thickened circle accurately, onscreen representation aside.  All of deluxe's output formats are faceted, and nearly all 3D prints are derived from .stl and .obj models anyway. 

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October 15, 2019, 09:23:51 PM
#16
I think Henry's suggestion would be even quicker, TC booleans between thickened figures happily, and TC ought to be calculating the geometry of a thickened circle accurately, onscreen representation aside.  All of deluxe's output formats are faceted, and nearly all 3D prints are derived from .stl and .obj models anyway.

Given that, if one could live with the on-screen display of the nodes' lines, it would probably be better to go with a multi-sided Polygon-- Murray's suggestion-- in Deluxe, if one intends to 3D-print.  Something like the 176 sides I experimented with.

What do you think about that, Murray?

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 15, 2019, 09:58:28 PM
#17
It's overkill for an 8mm cylinder and cylindrical section, IMO, Alvin, especially if it's being produced on a domestic fused filament 3D printer, even if it's being built vertically.  I doubt you'd see any discernable difference between, say, 30 facets or anything higher, even if the printer's got good resolution. 

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* November 17, 2019, 11:29:22 AM
#18
As I progressed I realized that my original strategy was flawed.  If I needed to re-design the socket piece to make it stronger, I'd likely need to increase the OD - which would negate the idea of plugging different designs into the same groove. 

Instead, I constructed the socket against a small segment of the bracket.  Then I was easily able to join the two bracket pieces with a simple "join by 3 points."  Like one of you guys said, the best solution is what works best for you.

After finishing the design it printed out good, except for a glitch caused by not setting the object properly on the platform in Cura.  Then, I finally got the sketch from my buddy showing exactly what he had in mind - much simpler than what I was trying to do.  In the end, thanks to all the input here I was able to draw up the prototype of what he wanted pretty easily.  Here's what I ended up with:

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* November 20, 2019, 09:08:54 AM
#19
And here's the 3d print of the prototype (surprised me with the ridgidity/strength in a PLA print):

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