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Its time for a new computer an interesting read about CPUvsGPU Comp. specs added
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January 04, 2019, 08:39:47 PM
Well folks
The power supply went out on my computer that was 8 years old so I need a new computer and have a few question. I always look here for advice to see what everyone else is recommending or using and I have read most the threads here. While searching around on the internet I found this https://www.cgdirector.com/best-computer-3d-modeling-rendering/ I don't understand it all, but I think it makes sense and applies to TC about using the CPU more than the GPU? I was wondering what you think?
 
They also talk about buying the parts from https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZLX9P3 and building your own, building one looks pretty straight forward? So do you build your own or purchase a prebuilt unit?
 
In one of the threads someone mentioned it would be nice if we had a spot to list what computer we use with specs. which I thought would be beneficial to others, but if this thread does exists I could find it. Never happened?
Thanks in advance
Paul

« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 03:09:30 PM by Paul Strand »

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* January 05, 2019, 12:29:44 PM
#1
I use a Dell workstation. I don't trust myself to build one. I expect this last to 2025-30, as I don't push it. Probably way over your spending limit.

Dell Precision Tower 7910
2 — Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2650 v4 @ 2.20GHz, 2201 Mhz, 12 Core(s), 24 Logical Processor(s)
64.0 GB RAM
64-bit Operating System
Windows 10 Pro

NVIDIA Quadro M2000
4 GB RAM

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


January 07, 2019, 07:40:48 AM
#2
Earlier versions of TurboCAD would use the GPU (I have NVidia, which is supposed to work with RedSDK), if specified, and provide faster results than CPU only.

2017 would default to using the GPU under Advanced, but I am not seeing that with 2018.  2016 required peaking into the Render settings to turn GPU rendering on.  I found the same setting in 2018, but trying it has prevented me for any rendering (it won't even switch to Wireframe).

I changed to GDI from RedSDK and a Quality setting (Lightworks / Raytrace Full) rendered much more quickly (approx. 3x faster).  Oddly, the GPU was not used at all.

Switching back to RedSDK resulted in much slower renders and some bug that prevented the Model space from being updated until I resized the window, and that caused a re-calculation.

From what I understand, the NVidia Quadro video cards work much faster, but I have not seen benchmarks posted in this thread (the closest we have to system comparisons): http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html


Jeff


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January 07, 2019, 05:53:28 PM
#3
I use a Dell workstation. I don't trust myself to build one. I expect this last to 2025-30, as I don't push it. Probably way over your spending limit.

Dell Precision Tower 7910
2 — Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2650 v4 @ 2.20GHz, 2201 Mhz, 12 Core(s), 24 Logical Processor(s)
64.0 GB RAM
64-bit Operating System
Windows 10 Pro

NVIDIA Quadro M2000my old
4 GB RAM
John
Just looking at the specs you posted here that looks like a nice system. I am trying to get by under $2500.00. I agree with you about building your own but my son says I am crazy to buy a prebuilt system. I just think there's more to it then just plugging things in, I am sure it would work when done but would it be optimized to give best performance possible?

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Always leave the back door open, you never know when you might need to run out it.


January 07, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
#4
Building it yourself isn't a major concern (you can always get help online if something confuses you).

One big advantage of custom builds is the NVmE storage cards (M.2 card format) that are 100 times faster than SSDs and 1000 times faster than spinner drives.  Get a motherboard that supports one and install your OS and applications there.  You'll get faster boot times.  I have spinners for data (not as fast, but I need terabyte memory and that's still very expensive in solid-state storage).

I assembled my system (see my tag line below) in the $1,500 range.  Just be careful of the NVidia graphics cards that advertise built-in 3D processing (Real Time Ray Tracing aka RTX) because TurboCAD doesn't access those capabilities, so you will be wasting your money unless you buy some computer games that use it.  The Quadro cards should increase rendering performance, but I don't know how much.  You can find a wide variety on https://pcpartpicker.com/ (a search for "Quadro" will result in 3 pages of results), but you'll have to do some research to determine which cards will do the best job for you.

Pick the power supply last, because it has to drive everything.

Some of the Quadro cards are well under $1,000 (but you'll want a minimum of 3GB, probably 4), so you can build a quality system for well under your $2,400 maximum price.


Jeff

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January 07, 2019, 07:19:42 PM
#5
Earlier versions of TurboCAD would use the GPU (I have NVidia, which is supposed to work with RedSDK), if specified, and provide faster results than CPU only.

2017 would default to using the GPU under Advanced, but I am not seeing that with 2018.  2016 required peaking into the Render settings to turn GPU rendering on.  I found the same setting in 2018, but trying it has prevented me for any rendering (it won't even switch to Wireframe).

I changed to GDI from RedSDK and a Quality setting (Lightworks / Raytrace Full) rendered much more quickly (approx. 3x faster).  Oddly, the GPU was not used at all.

Switching back to RedSDK resulted in much slower renders and some bug that prevented the Model space from being updated until I resized the window, and that caused a re-calculation.

From what I understand, the NVidia Quadro video cards work much faster, but I have not seen benchmarks posted in this thread (the closest we have to system comparisons): http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html


Jeff
That’s a lot of info to process, I never liked RedSDK, I purchased the lightworks plug-in and typically I use wire frame or draft render 90% of the time. From what I gathered from my research it seems rendering in 2018 is more about CPU speed than anything else. I would think one of the companies that make workstations would try to build one for TC but that's not the case, there are quite a few articles out there on the best budget workstation, but when you read the fine print they took a $1300.00 workstation and threw a bunch of upgrades at it so it’s now closer to $4000.00 workstation. So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:23:48 PM by Paul Strand »

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January 07, 2019, 07:38:51 PM
#6
Building it yourself isn't a major concern (you can always get help online if something confuses you).

One big advantage of custom builds is the NVmE storage cards (M.2 card format) that are 100 times faster than SSDs and 1000 times faster than spinner drives.  Get a motherboard that supports one and install your OS and applications there.  You'll get faster boot times.  I have spinners for data (not as fast, but I need terabyte memory and that's still very expensive in solid-state storage).

I assembled my system (see my tag line below) in the $1,500 range.  Just be careful of the NVidia graphics cards that advertise built-in 3D processing (Real Time Ray Tracing aka RTX) because TurboCAD doesn't access those capabilities, so you will be wasting your money unless you buy some computer games that use it.  The Quadro cards should increase rendering performance, but I don't know how much.  You can find a wide variety on https://pcpartpicker.com/ (a search for "Quadro" will result in 3 pages of results), but you'll have to do some research to determine which cards will do the best job for you.

Pick the power supply last, because it has to drive everything.

Some of the Quadro cards are well under $1,000 (but you'll want a minimum of 3GB, probably 4), so you can build a quality system for well under your $2,400 maximum price.


Jeff
I appreciate the advice I have a few company's quoting me a system, but am still working out the fine details when I get it dialed in I will post what I plan on purchasing and see what your thoughts are, Heck I be interested in what everyone thinks of it.
Thanks
Paul     

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January 08, 2019, 02:01:00 AM
#7
I would think one of the companies that make workstations would try to build one for TC but that's not the case, there are quite a few articles out there on the best budget workstation, but when you read the fine print they took a $1300.00 workstation and threw a bunch of upgrades at it so it’s now closer to $4000.00 workstation.

While TurboCAD is one of the most widely sold mechanical CAD applications worldwide, that claim covers all three versions (only one of which is an ACIS Solid modeler) and I don't think that there's enough demand for vendors to assemble workstations for it.


So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

The image looks familiar, but I don't think I have the test app on my system.  What's its name?


Jeff

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January 08, 2019, 02:34:48 AM
#8
Jeff,

    I think Paul may be using the attached.

Regards Tim

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* January 08, 2019, 03:02:34 AM
#9
I agree with you about building your own but my son says I am crazy to buy a prebuilt system. I just think there's more to it then just plugging things in, I am sure it would work when done but would it be optimized to give best performance possible?

The biggest concern for me in building ones own computer is.  What if it does not work. For example, if a new component was faulty the computer will not fire up, it would then be up to the builder, to determine which component was causing the problem, and prove it was faulty to get a replacement from the supplier.  manufacturers would probably just swap components to prove which is faulty, but a 'one off' builder does not have that luxury.

That said. I have built my own computers (4 of them in the past). But it does get my heart racing the first time it is switched on.     

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January 08, 2019, 03:20:11 AM
#10
So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

I'm very disappointed to admit that it was 3 min, 22 sec.  This could be due to my using a hyper-threaded 6 core CPU that has relatively low speed instead of a CPU with fewer cores running at higher speeds.

According to GPU-Z, my GPU was running about 60% of its top speed, but only one of my CPU cores was being exercised.


Jeff
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 03:26:30 AM by Jeffin90620 »

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January 08, 2019, 03:24:11 AM
#11
In one of the threads someone mentioned it would be nice if we had a spot to list what computer we use with specs. which I thought would be beneficial to others, but if this thread does exists I could find it. Never happened?

The closest we have to a benchmark is this thread (http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html), but it's for RedSDK.  And even then, the people with Quadro cards did not submit any times.


Jeff

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System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


January 08, 2019, 08:56:58 AM
#12
So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

I'm very disappointed to admit that it was 3 min, 22 sec.  This could be due to my using a hyper-threaded 6 core CPU that has relatively low speed instead of a CPU with fewer cores running at higher speeds.

According to GPU-Z, my GPU was running about 60% of its top speed, but only one of my CPU cores was being exercised.


Jeff
Below is some of my test results with the house render from my past computers, I remember being disappointed with the Dell I spent a lot of money on that beast and never was happy with it.
Paul
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 09:00:09 AM by Paul Strand »

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* January 08, 2019, 09:48:31 AM
#13
So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

I'm very disappointed to admit that it was 3 min, 22 sec.  This could be due to my using a hyper-threaded 6 core CPU that has relatively low speed instead of a CPU with fewer cores running at higher speeds.

According to GPU-Z, my GPU was running about 60% of its top speed, but only one of my CPU cores was being exercised.


Jeff

That Render Test is no good in my opinion. It renders using "LightWorks Full", which only uses one core. They need a Render Test that uses "LightWorks Raytrace Full", which should access all available cores.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


January 09, 2019, 04:47:15 AM
#14
Below is some of my test results with the house render from my past computers, I remember being disappointed with the Dell I spent a lot of money on that beast and never was happy with it.

What's the hardware complement in your latest system?


Jeff

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January 09, 2019, 11:16:20 AM
#15
Below is some of my test results with the house render from my past computers, I remember being disappointed with the Dell I spent a lot of money on that beast and never was happy with it.

What's the hardware complement in your latest system?


Jeff
Jeff see attached, I have been pretty happy with it, I use wire frame or draft render 90% of the time. It had some problems when it was new the hard drive had problems, the place we bought from reformatted the HD twice then installed a new HD since then it been good. it was probably just the luck of the draw? but I don't know that I would recommend it if anyone is looking.
Paul 

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January 09, 2019, 11:34:28 AM
#16
So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

I'm very disappointed to admit that it was 3 min, 22 sec.  This could be due to my using a hyper-threaded 6 core CPU that has relatively low speed instead of a CPU with fewer cores running at higher speeds.

According to GPU-Z, my GPU was running about 60% of its top speed, but only one of my CPU cores was being exercised.


Jeff

That Render Test is no good in my opinion. It renders using "LightWorks Full", which only uses one core. They need a Render Test that uses "LightWorks Raytrace Full", which should access all available cores.
John
Do you know of a Render Test that uses "LightWorks Raytrace Full", that i could download and try? I did ask Google and with no luck.
Paul

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* January 09, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
#17
So how long does it take for your current system to render the house?

I'm very disappointed to admit that it was 3 min, 22 sec.  This could be due to my using a hyper-threaded 6 core CPU that has relatively low speed instead of a CPU with fewer cores running at higher speeds.

According to GPU-Z, my GPU was running about 60% of its top speed, but only one of my CPU cores was being exercised.


Jeff

That Render Test is no good in my opinion. It renders using "LightWorks Full", which only uses one core. They need a Render Test that uses "LightWorks Raytrace Full", which should access all available cores.
John
Do you know of a Render Test that uses "LightWorks Raytrace Full", that i could download and try? I did ask Google and with no luck.
Paul

No I don't. As far as I know, that test you used was created by Softdev, that also does the programming of TurboCAD. They put that application together in 2003 and haven't updated it since.

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V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


January 11, 2019, 02:26:25 PM
#18
I attached the specs for the new computer I am looking at, thoughts? This is a quote from @Xi® Computer Corp. approximate cost is $2600.00 for the workstation, if I wanted to go with a laptop that would add around $500.00 to the cost. They have decent reviews, has anybody else bought from them input good or bad welcome.
Paul

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January 11, 2019, 04:32:23 PM
#19
I attached the specs for the new computer I am looking at, thoughts? This is a quote from @Xi® Computer Corp. approximate cost is $2600.00 for the workstation, if I wanted to go with a laptop that would add around $500.00 to the cost. They have decent reviews, has anybody else bought from them input good or bad welcome.

No experience with this vendor, but the BOM (Bill of Materials) is pretty good.  The recommended CPU is highly recommended by Tom's Hardware and is considered to be the best value for the money by Benchmarks UL.  16 GB will handle most of your needs (the few times it hasn't for me has involved a TurboCAD bug that continually ate up more memory and I haven't seen that for a while).

The M.2 NVMe drive will give you much faster boot times than a standard SSD, too.  Mine is 256GB instead of 512GB and I've got plenty of space left, but all my data is on a 1 TB spinner and it takes some time to load large files from it, so you might want to consider putting your active files on the NVMe drive.

I didn't spend a lot of time on the prices, but $2,400 seems a bit high when the CPU and video card aren't that expensive (only a couple hundred more than I spent on my new system a few years ago).  I spent ~$1,200, but kept the existing case and DVD burner.  Then again, your BOM is a lot longer than mine.

To summarize, this will be a good, mid-range professional system (or a very high end enthusiast system).


Jeff
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:36:11 PM by Jeffin90620 »

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* January 14, 2019, 07:23:00 AM
#20
That price does seem a little high. Based on the add on, I assume that the base would only be case, mother board, and power supply. And $1099 for that is way too high. Look at Newegg and compare a mid range gaming PC.

Edit: I went to that website and see the prices for the add on is for upgrades from the base unit. But I still think $2600 high.
 A similar DYI from newegg would be around $1600
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 07:41:24 AM by Jason B »

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i7- 3770 Ivy Bridge 3.4 GHz, 16G Crucial Ballistic, ASRock Extreme 4, EVGA 1060 SSC, Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit


January 14, 2019, 09:30:09 AM
#21
That price does seem a little high. Based on the add on, I assume that the base would only be case, mother board, and power supply. And $1099 for that is way too high. Look at Newegg and compare a mid range gaming PC.

Edit: I went to that website and see the prices for the add on is for upgrades from the base unit. But I still think $2600 high.
 A similar DYI from newegg would be around $1600
Thanks Jason
I did the same thing and came up with around that $1900.00. For whatever reason I don't feel comfortable building it, I don't know why? I have been around and worked on equipment all my life, done the majority of all my auto and home repairs and have put together a 3D printer kit. I am sure it would fire up when done but I just seem struggle with finding and installing the right drivers etc.
Paul
 

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January 21, 2019, 07:42:30 PM
#22
I9 9900K 8 core 5Ghz $499 (95 watt)
Asus Prime Z370-A USB 3.1 GEN 2 X 2 Dual SSD M2  DDR4 4266 $189
Nvidia Quadro P4000 $749 (105 watt)
Case, Power, Cooler $175
Memory $350

Total $1,962 + Shipping and Taxes and 2 hours to assemble.
If your old system was running Windows 10 just download the latest version from MS and install it then use the key from your old system.

My last workstation had 2 Xeons, 16GB memory, 6 SATA RAID and ate a power supply every year, 1200 watt power supply....

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January 22, 2019, 11:13:08 AM
#23
I9 9900K 8 core 5Ghz $499 (95 watt)
Asus Prime Z370-A USB 3.1 GEN 2 X 2 Dual SSD M2  DDR4 4266 $189
Nvidia Quadro P4000 $749 (105 watt)
Case, Power, Cooler $175
Memory $350

Total $1,962 + Shipping and Taxes and 2 hours to assemble.
If your old system was running Windows 10 just download the latest version from MS and install it then use the key from your old system.

My last workstation had 2 Xeons, 16GB memory, 6 SATA RAID and ate a power supply every year, 1200 watt power supply....
Kevin
That looks like a nice system, so how many GB's of memory is that?
Thanks
Paul

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Always leave the back door open, you never know when you might need to run out it.


* September 27, 2019, 12:17:16 PM
#24
Earlier versions of TurboCAD would use the GPU (I have NVidia, which is supposed to work with RedSDK), if specified, and provide faster results than CPU only.

2017 would default to using the GPU under Advanced, but I am not seeing that with 2018.  2016 required peaking into the Render settings to turn GPU rendering on.  I found the same setting in 2018, but trying it has prevented me for any rendering (it won't even switch to Wireframe).

I changed to GDI from RedSDK and a Quality setting (Lightworks / Raytrace Full) rendered much more quickly (approx. 3x faster).  Oddly, the GPU was not used at all.

Switching back to RedSDK resulted in much slower renders and some bug that prevented the Model space from being updated until I resized the window, and that caused a re-calculation.

From what I understand, the NVidia Quadro video cards work much faster, but I have not seen benchmarks posted in this thread (the closest we have to system comparisons): http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html


Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I haven't been able to get my quadro card to work well with TC2019 Platinum the initial draft render is about 12 seconds and after that you can move the model around nicely however if you ever need to apply changes to the model like fillets while it is rendered you have to wait 12 seconds for every fillet.

Every time the model updates and is rendered the CPU sends info to the GPU and the GPU can later manipulate that information. I also noticed that for some reason TC does not allow multicore support for the CPU for draft render. It does for Quality render and Advanced render. This is very troublesome for high detailed models.

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September 27, 2019, 01:46:06 PM
#25
... I also noticed that for some reason TC does not allow multicore support for the CPU for draft render. It does for Quality render and Advanced render. This is very troublesome for high detailed models.

That's just the way it's written.  You may be better served by working in Wireframe (maybe Hidden Line) mode until it's time to get a better look at what you've created.

I get impressive results manipulating the view in Draft render mode after it's been rendered.  GPU usage gets quite high and I only have a consumer card (GTX 970).

I have yet  to read any accolades for Quadro card performance with TurboCAD (the people at IMSI have refused to answer my questions) and the few users who post here have not participated in the de facto RedSDK Benchmark (see http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html).

When I did the research a few years ago, I discovered that AutoCAD has superior performance with gaming cards from NVidia.  This may well be the case with TurboCAD.


Jeff


Jeff

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