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Solid / TC Surface
Read 10227 times
January 18, 2012, 12:11:54 PM
New objects I draw are being created as TC Surfaces.  Is there a way to have them created as Solids instead?  I'm pretty sure I accidently changed a setting because I think new objects I would create were Solids.. Now they're coming in as TC Surfaces.

Thx!
TC PRO 17

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January 18, 2012, 12:28:42 PM
#1
Right mouse click on the tool icon and select Solid under the 3D tab before creating objects. You can also keep an eye this setting via the Selection Info palette. Random changing of this is a known issue in V17. It happens in V18 as well but not as often.


January 18, 2012, 01:08:32 PM
#2
Thanks Don!

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January 19, 2012, 12:03:00 AM
#3
What is the advantage of TC surface over solid or vice versa?

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Nick
(United Kingdom)
TurboCAD 20 Pro Platinum.
Windows 7 64 bit.


* January 19, 2012, 05:34:16 AM
#4
TC surfaces are faceted, so they can be edited directly by vertex manipulation.  They don't accept the engineering-style editing features like shelling or blending, so they'll rebuild from compound profiles, but they can't maintain face blends.  They become less smooth with subsequent editing.  They don't acknowledge feature recognition, so a face intended to represent a curved face loses that reference from the point of creation.  Scale up a curved object and faceting becomes coarser and more obviously not a curved surface.  TC does some subtle things in the conversion, though.  If you import a Sketchup model that you're taking drawings from, it's a surface.  Converting it to solid consolidates coplanar facets into a single contiguous face that looks a lot cleaner in a drawing.   It also makes reverse engineering .stl models back into feature-based models easier, because a contiguous face is a recognisable feature that others can be deduced and reconstructed from.

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January 19, 2012, 05:37:12 AM
#5
What is the advantage of TC surface over solid or vice versa?

Think of the cost of Deluxe which uses TC Surface objects ($XXX.00) and the cost of Pro which has both, but whose default is Solids ($XXXX.XX) and you will know that must be advantages to using Solids. TC Surfaces are extremely limiting, Solids are not.

It is quite hefty subject to answer in a forum thread, the reason for my brief answer above.

This actually sounds like a great subject for a TurboCAD Tip and perhaps I will make that the next one on my list.


January 19, 2012, 06:17:57 AM
#6
Another downside of surfaces is the materials, they don't wrap the same as a solid, the coordinates are different.

One benefit though is they take up less memory and I find the easier to edit in many ways with "node edit". The Furniture Maker plug-in uses surfaces for this very reason.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* January 20, 2012, 12:48:37 PM
#7
Hey...Newbie fresh meat here.

I've used CadStd PRO for the past 4-5 years for simple 2D drawings and just bought TurboCad 17 Delux to step up to 3D and more complex drawings.

I drew up a simple cartridge case then tried to 3D it by following the  manual and  the 3D properties conversion route.  The box came up but the TC box button was activated and greyed out...nothing was going on.  I then tried doing a circle...same thing happened...

Explanations anyone?

Also...are there simple commands for cutting gaps in lines such as "GAP" or modifying line length and  position by grabbing the line end  and repositioning such as  such as "CHANGE ENTITY" or offsetting lines/objects such as "OFFSET" in CadStd Pro.

I have the TurboCad 2d/3d manuals coming, have found slightly complicated ways around to do the above and I'm still crawling around inside the program...I played with AutoCad way back when it first came out, but haven't done any drawing programs more complicated than CadStd or Paint since.

Is this the correct forum to use for newbie questions???...if not please point me in the right direction.

Thanks

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* January 20, 2012, 03:08:03 PM
#8
Welcome to the zoo Foobar; this is the place.

You may want to look at Editing and Modifying 2D Objects in the Wiki or in TurboCAD's Help file. Editing in 3D is another place that might be helpful.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


* January 20, 2012, 07:18:00 PM
#9
Thanks, John...I tried those, spent half of today sitting in my truck in the rain/snow outside the local closed library using their WIFI and watching all the vids I could find on one TurboCad site.    I live in the wilds of So. Oregon, 10 miles from a library/post office and 50 miles from a town and larger library.

I have no trouble doing 3D drawings, setting parameters etc, but some parameter somewhere isn't set right because I still can't go from a 2D drawing to 3D by going to 3D in the properties link.  I input a dimension into the box, hit enter and I just end up back on the 2D page.

Does the same thing in the V18 ESD freebe I downloaded...so something isn't set right.  Extrude isn't working as the manuals say or ????...

I did get Twisted Extrude to work on a circle...neat visual...so I just haven't gotten the commands to work or my logitech roller wheel mouse is causing me grief...hahahaha...right clik works much differently in TC than in CadStd.  I might need to re-assign some keys/buttons somewhere.

Thanks again.

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* January 20, 2012, 08:12:06 PM
#10
Thanks, John...I tried those, spent half of today sitting in my truck in the rain/snow outside the local closed library using their WIFI and watching all the vids I could find on one TurboCad site.    I live in the wilds of So. Oregon, 10 miles from a library/post office and 50 miles from a town and larger library.

I have no trouble doing 3D drawings, setting parameters etc, but some parameter somewhere isn't set right because I still can't go from a 2D drawing to 3D by going to 3D in the properties link.  I input a dimension into the box, hit enter and I just end up back on the 2D page.

Does the same thing in the V18 ESD freebe I downloaded...so something isn't set right.  Extrude isn't working as the manuals say or ????...

I did get Twisted Extrude to work on a circle...neat visual...so I just haven't gotten the commands to work or my logitech roller wheel mouse is causing me grief...hahahaha...right clik works much differently in TC than in CadStd.  I might need to re-assign some keys/buttons somewhere.

Thanks again.

If the "properties link" you're referring to is the one shown in the attached screenshot, click OK after entering a Thickness. And switch to an Isometric view so you can see the result.

Henry H
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 10:23:01 AM by Henry Hubich »

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* January 20, 2012, 09:14:20 PM
#11
Thanks Henry...same 3D properties box, different screen shot...must be different versions.  I can input a dimension in the "thickness" box and hit OK but it just takes me back to the drawing...and the"Create 3D Object as..." box has only the "TC Surface" button and no SOLIDs button and the TC button was greyed out.

I did get things to work somewhat...but I think what I want to do, basically draw a 3D picture of a cartridge case, make it a symbol or ??? so I can pull it up and modify the dimensions at will, is beyond a simple, blow out a 2D to 3D and there it is. 

I have a couple of other simple case drawing programs I only have to input numbers and come up with a nice 2D drawing...I though a 3D version that can be rotated in all three planes and color, texture would be nice to have...I know it can be done, I just need to learn how to do it with this program...I can do it the "old fashioned" 1960's mechanical drawing with my original 1960's tools...I was hoping using new technology would be easier and faster...time will tell.

Taking baby steps until I can run... ;D ::)

Any suggestions on just where to start...ellipses and ???...I can whip out a 3D drawing in a NY second...maybe scan it in...somehow????

Thanks again all.

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* January 21, 2012, 10:34:23 AM
#12
Thanks Henry...same 3D properties box, different screen shot...must be different versions.  I can input a dimension in the "thickness" box and hit OK but it just takes me back to the drawing...and the"Create 3D Object as..." box has only the "TC Surface" button and no SOLIDs button and the TC button was greyed out.

I did get things to work somewhat...but I think what I want to do, basically draw a 3D picture of a cartridge case, make it a symbol or ??? so I can pull it up and modify the dimensions at will, is beyond a simple, blow out a 2D to 3D and there it is. 

I have a couple of other simple case drawing programs I only have to input numbers and come up with a nice 2D drawing...I though a 3D version that can be rotated in all three planes and color, texture would be nice to have...I know it can be done, I just need to learn how to do it with this program...I can do it the "old fashioned" 1960's mechanical drawing with my original 1960's tools...I was hoping using new technology would be easier and faster...time will tell.

Taking baby steps until I can run... ;D ::)

Any suggestions on just where to start...ellipses and ???...I can whip out a 3D drawing in a NY second...maybe scan it in...somehow????

Thanks again all.

Oops. I failed to notice that you're using TCad Deluxe. That version does not recognize Solids, and indeed you do not have any options in the Create 3D Object As field of the Properties dialog. But after selecting a 2D object (e.g., a circle or a polygon), you should still be able to type a number in the Thickness field, click OK, and see a three-dimensional object in your drawing when you switch to an isometric view.

Henry H

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* January 21, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
#13
Thanks again Henry...You told me what was doing wrong...I had the commands in the wrong order... and I wasn't selecting the whole object first...I selecting ortho first and I could get some of the commands to work but not the whole object...and I was also still looking for a "select all" command rather than left click and fencing/outlining the multi-lined object to select the whole object.

I did get a 3D object but it was square rather than round/cylinder shaped and out of perspective..  Still have some learning/relearning to do. :o ;D

Thanks again

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* January 21, 2012, 07:08:44 PM
#14
Thanks again Henry...You told me what was doing wrong...I had the commands in the wrong order... and I wasn't selecting the whole object first...I selecting ortho first and I could get some of the commands to work but not the whole object...and I was also still looking for a "select all" command rather than left click and fencing/outlining the multi-lined object to select the whole object.

I did get a 3D object but it was square rather than round/cylinder shaped and out of perspective..  Still have some learning/relearning to do. :o ;D

Thanks again

A mutli-lined object can be troublesome to transform into a 3D object, especially in Deluxe. I strongly recommend that you trace over it with a single Polyline. When you do that, do NOT click on the starting point to finish the Polyline -- instead, after clicking the last point (not the starting point!), right-click to open the Local Menu and choose "Close."

Henry H

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* January 21, 2012, 08:40:09 PM
#15
Thanks Henry...I will do that.  I'm just going in circles...learning a lot but not getting anywhere near what I want.

This object is just a tapered cylinder, with a truncated cone on top of that, with a straight cylinger on top of that...in effect...why an I having so much trouble laying it out in this program when I can draw it so easily in CadStd or on a piece of paper.... ??? :-[... more baby steps required.  Forget what I think I know and get a clean piece of paper AND the manuals, due on 1-27-2010 hopefully... :o

Thanks again

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January 22, 2012, 03:13:42 AM
#16
"instead, after clicking the last point (not the starting point!), right-click to open the Local Menu and choose "Close.""
That's interesting Henry. I alwayclick on the first point when creating a polyline and then also click 'close'. Am I creating a problem by working that way? It could possibly be why I do sometimes have problems with open polylines?
Also, when closing a polyline, does it affect the closing if you have Ortho set?

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Nick
(United Kingdom)
TurboCAD 20 Pro Platinum.
Windows 7 64 bit.


* January 22, 2012, 05:35:46 AM
#17
I use another program that has several useful utility features for editing polylines and splines, and for converting one to the other.  It gives good info including listing coordinates and identifying the start vertex.  If you look at selection info for plines, n vertices = number of segments + 1, whether the pline's open or closed.  Start/end of a closed pline or spline is always two vertices sharing the coords.  Closing the pline auto-snaps to the start vertex, and overrides ortho, as the "s" SEKE does, for example.  Snapping to the first vertex before closing adds a possibility of error and one more action, if you're the time-and-motion sort.

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* January 22, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
#18
re: …I always click on the first point when creating a polyline and then also click 'close'. Am I creating a problem…

You're creating a zero-length segment in the polyline when you do that. There have been occasions in the past where this has caused errors in creating/editing of 3D objects.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


* January 22, 2012, 12:05:19 PM
#19
I tried tracing over Henry, and using "close"...still came out a squared oblong object instead of round plus the object was basically just two sides only, not a boxed in object.

I think I need to start with a cylinder then adjust the sides to taper in about 5 °, then a short section of a truncated cone with ~20° tapered sides then the final short cylinder.

Can this be done with a poly line or set up in three or four separate sections/groups/boxes then moved together?

Basically asking how to manipulate the sides of a 3D cylinder to form a tapered cylinder, then truncate a cone then stick them together.  :-\

Maybe I need to approach this as a group or a set of blocks rather than one object.

If any of you have looked at a cartridge case, it can be broken down into a base end with the rim and groove, a middle section consisting of a tapered cylinder, a truncated cone section and a cylinder...4 groups or blocks...or combination.

Would this seem to be a more logical starting point?? ???

Thanks

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* January 22, 2012, 05:29:11 PM
#20
I tried tracing over Henry, and using "close"...still came out a squared oblong object instead of round plus the object was basically just two sides only, not a boxed in object.

I think I need to start with a cylinder then adjust the sides to taper in about 5 °, then a short section of a truncated cone with ~20° tapered sides then the final short cylinder.

Can this be done with a poly line or set up in three or four separate sections/groups/boxes then moved together?

Basically asking how to manipulate the sides of a 3D cylinder to form a tapered cylinder, then truncate a cone then stick them together.  :-\

Maybe I need to approach this as a group or a set of blocks rather than one object.

If any of you have looked at a cartridge case, it can be broken down into a base end with the rim and groove, a middle section consisting of a tapered cylinder, a truncated cone section and a cylinder...4 groups or blocks...or combination.

Would this seem to be a more logical starting point?? ???

Thanks

Easiest way to create a 3D cartridge case is to Revolve a Polyline profile, as shown in the attached screenshot and .tcw file.

Henry H

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* January 22, 2012, 09:09:52 PM
#21
Thanks again Henry...YooDaMan...when can I move in :o ;D Hahahahahahah  Learning a lesson a minute and now I see the HOWS and WHYS  things weren't working.  Takes a while to see all the nuances...I can still do a  line drawing much faster in CadStd due to the quicker ways of  manipulating the components.

While I was messing up by the number I figured out a couple of ways to convert drawings from CadS to Turbo and how to import into Turbo.

Thanks for the pics also...as soon as I saw the JPEG I knew...it's something I've been doing for as long as I can remember, in my minds eye, to make things and also to envision how to fix things...my problem is converting real life actions into computereez...the left side of my brain doesn;t talk to the right side all that much for some strange reason...

Even then Revolve didn't work until I realized what the **** polyline meant everytime I selected the profile...bad habit of using a box to select all.  Revolve can make some pretty neat shapes...

I'm learning a little faster...pretty much par for the course no matter what you do...the baby steps are turning into stutter steps now.  :D

Now I just have to figure out how to get it painted up all purty and such...

The world just keeps opening up.  Can't get into old agers not wanting to go swimming in all these neat computer software programs pools. Sure wish I had computers, pocket calculators, and PDA's 50 years ago...but you can keep the cellphones...somethings just don't fit MY profile.  ::) ;D  Hahahahahaha

Thanks again. Double H-Man..now I can start on something complicated like a pine cone.  :o
 
One other question maybe someone can answer...

Is there a program to covert a drawing into the different programming codes for CNC machines...directly from a TurboCad or AutoCad drawing?  That is my next project...along with becoming proficient with TurboCad...learning G-code at least.

Luck

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* January 23, 2012, 12:17:05 PM
#22
Totally amazing when something does work....Thanks again Henry.


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* January 23, 2012, 01:34:35 PM
#23
Totally amazing when something does work....Thanks again Henry.



You're welcome :-)

Open the Properties dialog for that object and fiddle with the settings in the TC Surface Options page.

...Also be aware you can use Modify>Fillet to round off the corners of the Polyline. (You could have incorporated Arcs while drawing the Polyline in the first place, but it's difficult to make a line segment tangent to an arc.)

Henry H

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* January 23, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
#24
Thanks again, Henry....I will do that.  That woud work for doing Weatherby cases as they do have a nice radiused shoulder.  This case is what is known as a Ackley Improved.

Lots of things to play with...I'm not quite sure yet just HOW I arrived with the color scheme...but it turned out just right.  Hahahahahah

Enjoy

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