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Thread 3D: is someone joking?
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May 30, 2010, 10:10:06 AM
TC, v15:  Thread 3D:  Why can't I seem to save parameters with this tool?  It seems to be qualitative and for show rather than to type in numeric values.  I cannot get any numeric values to stay in the boxes -- it wants to draw an arbitrary screw from the mouse.  What use is that?

Am I using it wrong or is it limited that way?

Addendum:  I just ried Henry H.'s suggestions from Feb 23, 2010 -- does not work here.  I can only do graphical input ONLY..  HELP!!!!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 10:39:21 AM by T. Karlmann »

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May 30, 2010, 02:46:19 PM
#1
Why can you only do graphical input?

Jeff


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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


May 30, 2010, 05:45:58 PM
#2
Why can you only do graphical input?

Jeff

I'm not sure why.  But try as I may, my carefully input numerical values go away (actually, really disappear) while using the tool, and it's mouse-only input for my TC Thread 3D.

I tried Henry's procedure, same result.  what else is left but to try the Help, ask on this forum, then request a feature improvement! 

Bottom line: either I'm doing something wrong, or get the tool fixed.

I've noticed that this tool seems differently configured.  I has no Preferences; and also no ability to lock values.  I think the tool is wierd.

OK, now, how do I make threads in TC?

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* May 30, 2010, 07:35:05 PM
#3
OK, now, how do I make threads in TC?

Will this help?If not I have another video to refer to.Let us know how you make out.

http://downloads.imsidesign.com/Flash/thread/thread.htm



W.D.

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* May 30, 2010, 08:22:23 PM
#4

I've noticed that this tool seems differently configured.  I has no Preferences; and also no ability to lock values.  I think the tool is wierd.

OK, now, how do I make threads in TC?

It is differently configured. All of the tools in the AddOns menu are weird to some degree, IMO.

Try the Revolve tool for making threads, using the cross section of a single thread as the profile. You can set the pitch and the number of turns in the Properties dialog.

Henry H

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May 30, 2010, 09:52:21 PM
#5
OK, now, how do I make threads in TC?

Will this help?If not I have another video to refer to.Let us know how you make out.

http://downloads.imsidesign.com/Flash/thread/thread.htm



W.D.

I have v15.2.  Your vid says this is a NEW tool -- and your vid is of v16.  Is it new in v16 or do I have it, and I'm not aware of it?

A search through F1 Help only brings up Thread 3D.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 09:55:09 PM by T. Karlmann »

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May 30, 2010, 11:21:54 PM
#6

I've noticed that this tool seems differently configured.  I has no Preferences; and also no ability to lock values.  I think the tool is wierd.

OK, now, how do I make threads in TC?

It is differently configured. All of the tools in the AddOns menu are weird to some degree, IMO.

Try the Revolve tool for making threads, using the cross section of a single thread as the profile. You can set the pitch and the number of turns in the Properties dialog.

Henry H

Henry:  I tried the revolve tool!  It makes great threads, but the rusultant solid does not allow me to select it cleanly.  Say I want to put a head on the screw, I cannot seem to select a center point of the threaded revolution.

Perhaps the axis needs to be part of the original profile?  I'm trying again.

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* May 31, 2010, 02:09:26 AM
#7
"I have v15.2. Your vid says this is a NEW tool -- and your vid is of v16.  Is it new in v16 or do I have it, and I'm not aware of it?A search through F1 Help only brings up Thread 3D "..Probably not I must misread your thread and over looked the fact your using 15.Sorry for the mix up.That was merely a work around as another choice for thread creation.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 02:12:56 AM by wd »

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* May 31, 2010, 09:00:10 AM
#8

Henry:  I tried the revolve tool!  It makes great threads, but the rusultant solid does not allow me to select it cleanly.  Say I want to put a head on the screw, I cannot seem to select a center point of the threaded revolution.


You're right; there's no way to do it directly and precisely. Here are a few workarounds that I've used:

1. Snap a separately-created head to the Center of Extents of the threaded revolution and then move it manually along the axis until it looks right.

2. Create the head as another Revolved object using the same axis of revolution.

3. Place a Cylinder inside the threads and snap the head to the center of its end face. ("Degenerative Faceting" must be enabled.)

Henry H

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* May 31, 2010, 11:51:18 AM
#9
The following png. image is how i find center to locate hex for a head on a bolt .Hey it works.I'm not out located it plus or minus .0001 but get close enough to center to make the head of the bolt .

W.D.

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


June 01, 2010, 04:00:34 PM
#10
One of our members sent me a link via email to a youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVdc7e-2XyI

So I watch the video.  Sure enough a bolt is created using numeric values entered into the keyboard.  Great.  Now I try the same thing (actually several times) and I get nothing at first.

There is no audio to the vid, on my PC anyway, so I cannot tell if the audio track may have some important data on it.  At first, after entering all the same data values as the author, I was hitting ENTER.  This is how I got absolutely no screw or screen image whatsoever.

After looking at the vid carefully, I noted that he was NOT hitting ENTER after the last input value.  So I tried that.  (Here is where it gets interesting!)  I try not hitting ENTER after the last value and I get an actual bolt on my screen, instantly!  ... ... Trouble is, the bolt disappears after about 3 seconds and I'm left with nothing -- and most all the data values for the Thread 3D are blank again.  I think the pitch value stays around.

Whereas, if I use mouse input I can make uselessly imprecise bolts all day.

Is there some obscure option I need to have turned on, or is my TC 15.2 just not working properly?  What does everyone else get if they follow the vid?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 04:04:04 PM by T. Karlmann »

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June 01, 2010, 04:32:00 PM
#11
I just found out that all the commands in TC are separate .dll files.  So, I looked at mine -- cannot tell much -- but here it is.

Does anyone elses look different?


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* June 01, 2010, 05:59:56 PM
#12
Thomas, the details are the same for mine.  The tool works for me, I'm using XP home.      Tab through the parameters, enter and I've got a bolt.  An annoyance is that allocating a new WP drops the tool out, obliging reselection.  OTOH, once I've snapped a location, I have to change tools to cancel it, escape doesn't cut it. Other than that, it works once location is picked, and I can set the thread portion parametrically and the body length manually.  I can only guess you've got some other conflict, OS or installation.  One difference in behaviour between 15 and 17 is that in 17, nothing happens unless I gesture (no buttons, just wave it about)  the cursor in the drawing window once I've hit enter.   In 15, hit enter and it's there.   Dunno what that's about.

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* June 01, 2010, 08:43:40 PM
#13
After looking at the vid carefully, I noted that he was NOT hitting ENTER after the last input value.  So I tried that.  (Here is where it gets interesting!)  I try not hitting ENTER after the last value and I get an actual bolt on my screen, instantly!  ... ... Trouble is, the bolt disappears after about 3 seconds and I'm left with nothing -- and most all the data values for the Thread 3D are blank again.  I think the pitch value stays around.

Whereas, if I use mouse input I can make uselessly imprecise bolts all day.

Is there some obscure option I need to have turned on, or is my TC 15.2 just not working properly?  What does everyone else get if they follow the vid?
For this tool to work properly you have to give it time to process any mouse movement, motion or disturbances or with the keyboard will result the effects you achieve.I was able to recreate your problems in two versions of TC.The tool does work fine after the screw is complete.When the process is done it will turn black meaning the screw is complete .If render take out that mode. And put back to wire-frame or you will not be able to invoke your select tool,to start another session of the 3d screw.I always had good success with this tool in any version and feel its a great feature.Even AC 2004 didn't have this feature I had to use a Lisp file to cut my threads.If you load the right values in it you be able to create a nut with it.I just found that out by trial and error.

W.D.


EDIT: (Tip) for the best results have your screw made with World Plan (Ctrl.-W) view.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:13:57 PM by wd »

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


June 01, 2010, 09:33:18 PM
#14
Murray:  What's a WP?

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* June 01, 2010, 10:53:41 PM
#15

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June 02, 2010, 05:29:21 PM
#16
I'm now drawing bolts, and even almost-nuts all over the place.

What's changed?  Well, I think the drawing needs to be in TOP View.  Which , BTW, is not mentioned anywhere -- except by patient folks on this forum!  The delay to finish isn't substantial -- but it is worthwhile to note when the color change from red and blue changes to black -- then you know it's done.

I'm not sure if this answers all of the problematic roller-coaster ride I've had getting this tool to work, but now it does.  I even like the little chamfering it does on the end of the threads.

What's the secret to getting it to make nuts?  I tried some negative values, and got a result, but it wasn't perfect -- then I had to explode it and remove the center part.

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June 02, 2010, 06:57:15 PM
#17
I don't know what has changed, but now I can no longer draw any bolts -- they dissappear again.

I'm convinced the tool is unpredicatable and needs to be fixed!!!!  I know you have a new tool in v16, but what about those of us stuck in v15?

Thom

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* June 02, 2010, 09:20:29 PM
#18
I know you have a new tool in v16, but what about those of us stuck in v15?Thom
The best recommendation is upgrade to Platinum 17 to utilize the new tool or purchase 16 from another source.usually emails will be sent to end users when upgrades are available I'm sure notices will  be sent in the near future.So keep in mind the methods used here have been used over the course of years and have been proven to be successful.There several ways to cut threads,as Henry probably mention revolving, my favorite is the 3d add-ons,and another type is of revolving 2d profile.You have all the information to cut threads,and no big secret in making them. Practicing making them and knowing the specs.of threads will make you expert at it.


EDIT: (TIP) To make left hand thread after using 3d Thread up in the Add-ONs menu simply mirror Bolt,Screw,Etc. with Mirror Copy Tool.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 09:40:50 PM by wd »

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


June 02, 2010, 10:54:35 PM
#19
I know you have a new tool in v16, but what about those of us stuck in v15?Thom
The best recommendation is upgrade to Platinum 17 to utilize the new tool or purchase 16 from another source.usually emails will be sent to end users when upgrades are available I'm sure notices will  be sent in the near future.So keep in mind the methods used here have been used over the course of years and have been proven to be successful.There several ways to cut threads,as Henry probably mention revolving, my favorite is the 3d add-ons,and another type is of revolving 2d profile.You have all the information to cut threads,and no big secret in making them. Practicing making them and knowing the specs.of threads will make you expert at it.


EDIT: (TIP) To make left hand thread after using 3d Thread up in the Add-ONs menu simply mirror Bolt,Screw,Etc. with Mirror Copy Tool.

I think wd is missing my entire point.  Firstly, I have not spent all this time on this forum only to hear "upgrade to the latest version".  I have submitted to that swan song many times in the past, only to find out three things were fixed, but 10 more things were broken in the latest release.  Also, money is tight.  I see no reason to upgrade -- the only thing that recently caught my eye was the Quick Pull tool.  Faster wire-frame rendering?  Don't need it at all -- but that was touted as the #1 feature of v17.  The only regret I have is not getting v11 -- which was, I think, by far the best version.  I am stuck with every other version than that -- but I digress.

Of course there are many ways to cut threads.  Isn't it irksome to have a tool right there that pretends to do that very thing and then discover it just doesn't work at all, but no one wants to even make a recommendation to get it fixed?  I feel like Glen Beck here!

The whole idea of these tools is to save time, so I don't need to revolve or whatever, and just get my screw drawn and move on.

If this is the best that the senior people on this forum can come up with, then I need a better forum, of better software.

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* June 03, 2010, 03:55:44 AM
#20
Quote
author=T. Karlmann
If this is the best that the senior people on this forum can come up with, then I need a better forum, of better software.
On the contrary I have read few of your other posting and I come to the conclusion from what I read is nothing but rants about TC .The product does work there has been longtime proven track record of success. Maybe that is the best solution for you do as you say.   ;D
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:13:25 PM by wd »

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* June 03, 2010, 07:02:19 AM
#21
Thomas, I don't think the tool's at fault.  The manner in which it's worked for you at one time yet not another indicates that you've got another issue.   The software's installed all over the world on a vast disparity of PCs, I've got three of my own which haven't hiccuped.  It represents a near 100% failure rate for you, but you aren't leading a pack of howling disgruntled would-be thread builders with torches up to the door of Castle IMSI.  I've had a couple of installations of other software recently that required Microsoft's NET Framework, which manages runtimes, being updated.  It might be as simple as something like that.  Speaking for myself, I'm NOT having a problem, so my unwillingness to join a chorus is because I'm a firm believer in not fixing it if it ain't broke.  Sorry, but my reasoning is sound, too. 

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June 09, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
#22

I have learned a couple of things:
1) I do not need to be in any special view mode.
2) I think the problems I duscussed here may have been due to my opening a new drawing, then trying Thread 3D there.  If I try it in my working drawing, it works fine.
3) I echo others' wishes to have a table of standard machine-screw values, but I digress.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 02:45:56 PM by T. Karlmann »

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June 13, 2010, 02:51:08 PM
#23
Thomas, I don't think the tool's at fault.  The manner in which it's worked for you at one time yet not another indicates that you've got another issue.   The software's installed all over the world on a vast disparity of PCs, I've got three of my own which haven't hiccuped.  It represents a near 100% failure rate for you, but you aren't leading a pack of howling disgruntled would-be thread builders with torches up to the door of Castle IMSI.  I've had a couple of installations of other software recently that required Microsoft's NET Framework, which manages runtimes, being updated.  It might be as simple as something like that.  Speaking for myself, I'm NOT having a problem, so my unwillingness to join a chorus is because I'm a firm believer in not fixing it if it ain't broke.  Sorry, but my reasoning is sound, too. 

Thanks Murray -- that is what I needed to hear.  Right now, I've only a single installation of TC and that will change soon.  If TC is working fine on my other PCs then I'll turn my attention elsewhere.  Thanks for your reply!  It's no fun leading a crowd of torch-bearers down a dark path only to turn around and discover you're alone.

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