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GDI Hidden Line and viewports
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* September 20, 2019, 07:43:37 AM
I have found some strange behaviour with viewports set to Hidden Line-Hidden Line using GDI mode in Program Setup-Native Draw.
The attached v19 format file has just 2 objects, a box and a cylinder, each on its own layer, overlapping in space.
3 viewports show Both, Box and Cylinder, all set to HL, and using Layer Sets to control which objects are seen.
If I turn off visibility for an object in the Layers Palette or Design Director, in Model Space all is as expected.
What happens in the viewports depends on whether Override Layers Visibility is checked or not.
If checked, the object turns into a wireframe, if unchecked it disappears.
So I can use Layer Sets to control viewports, but to be sure when printing, all layers must be on in Model Space.
Another, possibly related issue is sometimes the Draw Intersections feature fails, I have to unset/set it in VP properties to fix it, also happens in Model Space which can affect Paper Space as well.
Is this normal for TCad 2016? I prefer the GDI mode as it gives a cleaner render than RedSDK, maybe I should play with settings for that?
This is the issue that confused me with my xref problem in another thread.

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home


* September 20, 2019, 10:55:24 AM
#1
...[Issue #1]:
If I turn off visibility for an object in the Layers Palette or Design Director, in Model Space all is as expected.
What happens in the viewports depends on whether Override Layers Visibility is checked or not.
If checked, the object turns into a wireframe, if unchecked it disappears.
So I can use Layer Sets to control viewports, but to be sure when printing, all layers must be on in Model Space.

[Issue #2]:
Another, possibly related issue is sometimes the Draw Intersections feature fails, I have to unset/set it in VP properties to fix it, also happens in Model Space which can affect Paper Space as well.
Is this normal for TCad 2016? I prefer the GDI mode as it gives a cleaner render than RedSDK, maybe I should play with settings for that?
This is the issue that confused me with my xref problem in another thread.


Hello woodbutcher,
  First of all, I appreciate (I mean that in the lesser-used definition of the word) your systematized and methodical approach for presenting and diagnosing an issue.  I also appreciate you saving to a very earlier version of TurboCAD so that I and others with older-versions limitations can have a crack at it; I learn a lot by helping others on the Forum resolve issues.  I use version-20ProPlatinum, mostly.

Regarding your first issue, this thread:
   Try this:  Un-check the "Nonrenderable objects" option in the Viewport/Camera/Hidden_Line/Foreground_Wireframe option.  When I do that, all works as desired/expected, with "Override Layers Visibility" option checked.
  (If you need that "Nonrenderable objects" option, perhaps you can Copy-in-Place the Viewport, and set the overlaying Viewport (or the underlaying one, if that serves you better) and set its Camera to Wireframe, and Layers visible as needed.)


Regarding your second issue, this thread:
[Nevermind... doesn't work consistently enough... ]  It seems to be an [display] issue with certain views and curved objects intersections.  Try this:
>In Paperspace, select your Viewport that is now displayed in Hidden Line.
>Go to Workspace/Modelspace(Floating)
>Using Dynamic Examine or something, skew the view somewhat.
>Click out of Floating Modelspace.
Works for me.

Or even just go into Modelpace, Hidden Line Render, "Draw Intersections" option active, and skew the view around a bit.  The intersection line(s) will appear.  Perhaps it is being displayed correctly, taking into consideration the camera's current Position, Target Point, Up Vector, in relation to where the intersection is.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:45:26 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* September 20, 2019, 01:42:12 PM
#2
Quote
I have found some strange behaviour with viewports set to Hidden Line-Hidden Line using GDI mode in Program Setup-Native Draw.
The attached v19 format file has just 2 objects, a box and a cylinder, each on its own layer, overlapping in space.
3 viewports show Both, Box and Cylinder, all set to HL, and using Layer Sets to control which objects are seen.
If I turn off visibility for an object in the Layers Palette or Design Director, in Model Space all is as expected.
What happens in the viewports depends on whether Override Layers Visibility is checked or not.
If checked, the object turns into a wireframe, if unchecked it disappears.
So I can use Layer Sets to control viewports, but to be sure when printing, all layers must be on in Model Space.
Another, possibly related issue is sometimes the Draw Intersections feature fails, I have to unset/set it in VP properties to fix it, also happens in Model Space which can affect Paper Space as well.
Is this normal for TCad 2016? I prefer the GDI mode as it gives a cleaner render than RedSDK, maybe I should play with settings for that?
This is the issue that confused me with my xref problem in another thread.


Just thought I do a quick reply 1st,  there have been issues reported in the past using layer sets. Will look for the the post in my next reply as Im on my mobile phone atm.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* September 20, 2019, 02:18:51 PM
#3
It dont need to be the Layer Set, more likely the combo together with GDI or GDI itself.
If i have Native Draw set to RedSDK ( in v 2017 ) everything works like a charm, switch to GDI and the "fun" begin.

Torfinn

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V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
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NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* September 20, 2019, 03:02:59 PM
#4
Alvin - I only hope I can give a little back - I've used the search button on here more times than I'd like to remember, since the forum was steam driven. I didn't spot that "Nonrenderable" was set by default in viewports, that seems to help a bit, but MS layer visibility stll overrides viewports for me using GDI.
Torfinn - That's exactly where I am now, RedSDK works for me after all. Having layer sets work reliably is a big deal, otherwise when any new layers get added to a viewport's list there's a deal of work if you have to update them all.
Darryl - Yes I've come across a few posts mentioning layer sets, I think TCad has not quite nailed this, layer sets and layers filters can end up out of sync too easily.
I'm looking at xrefs again, using single layer files to refer to, but not getting much sense yet.
Paul

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home


* September 20, 2019, 03:12:49 PM
#5
One other thing though, using RedSDK - each time I switch to a paperspace, the viewport is gone. Turn layer 0 off then on and it reappears, but I need to do this every time.

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home


* September 20, 2019, 03:39:11 PM
#6
Spoke too soon - I just got the same behaviour under RedSDK! It was working fine, except for the disappearing viewports, then I turned off the cube layer and the cube disappeared. So I saved the file, closed it and re-opened it. Everything now works again, and the viewports no longer disappear from the paperspaces. I noticed the cooling fan went quiet then - so I guess the processors had been working overtime when it went screwy. If/when it happens again, I'll check Task Manager for CPU and GPU etc.
Paul

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home


* September 20, 2019, 03:48:09 PM
#7
Hi Paul,

#1 report the quirky behavior to imsi along with a reference to this post
#2 Don't use the override layers visibility.= still quirky in 2019
#3 using TC Redsdk did more harm than good for my design work and well being  :)
Maybe it was my rig....maybe not

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* September 20, 2019, 03:56:39 PM
#8
One other thing though, using RedSDK - each time I switch to a paperspace, the viewport is gone. Turn layer 0 off then on and it reappears, but I need to do this every time.

Ctrl + A, Bring to front,problem solved, very quick to become an habit :)

Torfinn

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RedSDK enabled
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NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* September 21, 2019, 03:07:52 AM
#9
This is a version (v19) of the test using xrefs for the box and cylinder. Viewports and layer sets work as they should in all rendering modes except Hidden Line - Hidden Line. This using Native Draw - RedSDK. In that HL mode, none of the viewport visibility controls work at all, the only way to control visibility is with Override Laters Visibility off, then use the layers palette or Design Director. I could use Rendering Mode -  Redsdk Hidden Line with backward lines set to white, not a bad look. All the other hidden line options are way too busy with diagonal lines on the faces.
One other oddity is that sometimes if I go to Program Setup - Native Draw with a drawing open, TCad closes abruptly, I have to re-open with no drawing loaded, change settings, then open a drawing. I now suspect a combination of a bug and my hardware causing the problems, Any feedback showing what should work would be great.
How does one report this to IMSI? Is there any chance they'll see this anyway? I don't have any support contract etc.
Paul

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home


* September 21, 2019, 03:32:25 AM
#10
They work here in RedSDK, but they seems to be controlled by the viewport up in left corner, so maybe the other 2 is just copies of the first one ?

Torfinn

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V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* September 21, 2019, 04:02:26 AM
#11
Hi Torfinn
The 3 VPs paperspace has copies of the viewports from Both, Box and Cylinder paperspaces - all have the same view, each controlled by Layer sets of the same name. So Box should show only box, cylinder : cylinder etc. This works if we set the viewports to wireframe, or any render other than Hidden - Hidden. In both cases I have Native Draw RedSDK, NOT GDI.
So using the RSDK_Hidden seems to work for me, fingers crossed.
I always used GDI Hidden/Hidden before, and had odd problems but found fixes for them. It was trying xrefs for the first time which sent me off down this rabbit hole
Paul

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) 12Gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770M
Windows 10 Home