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Block Problems
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* August 21, 2019, 11:37:44 AM
I don't know if anyone else has problems occasionally using Blocks, but my use of them thru several different iterations of TC (now using TC19) has been problematical from time to time. Sometimes I will open a drawing with blocks on them and one type has disappeared entirely or has copied itself all over the drawing. Sometimes I may copy a block used on a drawing (all 2D) to another and eventually close the drawing. When I open it back up, the blocks are entirely gone.
Will use of the Group command offer any less problems? I've never used it before, but hoping if I did, I won't run  into these periodic weird problems I have over the years using TC. Any wisdom out there on what the problem may be and if use of Groups would be better? What is the real difference between the two?
Thanks for any advice!

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* August 21, 2019, 03:24:07 PM
#1
[modified by Alvin; created List]
  • I don't know if anyone else has problems occasionally using Blocks,
  • but my use of them thru several different iterations of TC (now using TC19) has been problematical from time to time.
  • Sometimes I will open a drawing with blocks on them and one type has disappeared entirely or has copied itself all over the drawing.
  • Sometimes I may copy a block used on a drawing (all 2D) to another and eventually close the drawing. When I open it back up, the blocks are entirely gone.
  • Will use of the Group command offer any less problems? I've never used it before, but hoping if I did, I won't run  into these periodic weird problems I have over the years using TC. Any wisdom out there on what the problem may be and if use of Groups would be better?
  • What is the real difference between the two?
Thanks for any advice!

1) I've used TurboCAD a lot over the past two decades.  Versions 6.5, 7, 8, 10.5, 11, 19, 20, 21.  I have never (almost never?) encountered problems using Blocks.
2) Are you in fact using version-19?; or are you using version-2019?
3 & 4)  Yes, that is odd behavior which I cannot recall reading (much?) reports of on these Forums.
5) Groups and Blocks are significantly different entities.  One cannot say whether or not whatever the underlying cause of your Block issue(s) will also affect the use of Groups.
6) Groups are quite different than Blocks.  One principal difference:  Making modifications to one iteration of a Group that has been copied does not change the contents of what is within the other copies of the Group.  The opposite is the case for Block Insertions.  There are other differences; best to stick with Blocks for what Blocks are intended to be used for, and to Groups for the limited things they are intended to be used for.
____________
Reading through some of your recent and not-so-recent posts, I am wondering:
     A)  Are you running more than one instance of TurboCAD version-__ at a time?  In other words, when you are working with multiple TurboCAD files open, do you have the TurboCAD program itself open multiple-ly?(not recommended to do this); or do you have a singular instance of the TurboCAD program running, with multiple TC files open within it?(the preferred method)
     B)  Are you opening the TurboCAD files using the "Open" feature after launching/starting the TurboCAD program (the preferred method)?; or are you opening TurboCAD files via Windows Explorer or equivalent, thereby launching/starting the TurboCAD program that way (the not-recommended approach).

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


August 21, 2019, 05:56:59 PM
#2
It has been my experience that Blocks and Groups should only be created after all the component pieces have been moved to Layer 0.  I recently forgot this in 2019 and was puzzled for a bit when Blocks were not properly displayed (I had turned off the relevant Layer display).


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* August 21, 2019, 06:03:29 PM
#3
Jeff brings up a good point:

If the objects within your Block(s) are on Layers that are not Visible (aka: Off) at the moment, you will not see your Blocks in the drawing space.

That will occur even though you have the Block Insertion (the entity which is the Block placed in the drawing space) on a Layer which is currently Visible (aka: On).

It is good practice to place all the objects that are within the Block(s) on Layer_0, and to never make Layer_0 Invisible (aka: Off).

Do you follow what we are saying?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 06:11:15 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


August 21, 2019, 06:09:08 PM
#4
If the objects within your Block(s) are on Layers that are not Visible at the moment, you will not see your Blocks in the drawing space.

If the components of your Block were on several different layers when created, then all those layers have to be visible or you will only see parts of the Block item.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* August 21, 2019, 09:41:01 PM
#5
Layers in Turbocad work similarly to layers in Autocad - here is a video that explains them. I use layers within blocks. I use this principle and have no problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6KAXLn2cGA

Layers wont make your blocks copy all over the place. I have occasionally had problems with blocks moving when saving to DWG are you saving to TCW?
There is a newish setting to block edit options - a very annoying setting- which makes blocks move after editing a block which you could test. It is in the block edit options - "compensate for the offset...……….." changing the default fixed this problem for me.
 another time blocks move is when I  use the sync attributes tool in the block palette
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 12:31:48 AM by nikkipollard »

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* August 22, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
#6
I'll try and answer in the order of responses (which were based upon my original queries); 
- We are using 2019 Version, the most recent. The unusual problems I have had has been with the last three versions, but this latest one is much better, until we got the patch and the entire program slowed down to a crawl. We un-installed the patch and put it back to the original iteration we received and solved that problem (another story for later). IMSI was no help at all.
- Can you tell me what Groups are used for? I understand about modifications to Blocks.
- I am not running more than one version of TC at a time. I run the one program and may have two or three files open.
- I am opening TC using the 'open' feature always and not via Windows
- I don't use Layers at all. So if not using them, I guess everything is on some kind of singular layer (default layer 0)? The Layers area on the screen is all grayed out.
- I am saving to TCW.
So I don't know if this helps identify what may be happening. I like using Blocks (without use of Layers) because they can be easily edited and all of them used on the drawing being edited at the same time. I appreciate everyone's help!!

This occurrence with the blocks disappearing and copying themselves all over the drawing is new on our new 2019 edition and used to happen a lot more with the other older versions.

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* August 22, 2019, 10:02:25 PM
#7
This sounds like a bug to me
Groups are not as powerful as blocks they are just a collection of objects.
Try experimenting  with the new setting because it was introduced in 2017.
for some reason whenever you edit a block all the blocks in the drawing move relatively to the block reference point - I am not sure why that is a useful new addition to the program.
 You might have thought the block disappeared but it had moved - and replaced it - hence the multiple copies in odd places.
 The setting is in the blocks palette under options. The default causes the problems
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 10:41:34 PM by nikkipollard »

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


August 24, 2019, 03:42:01 AM
#8
The problem could be the RedSDK engine.

I sometimes have display issues (As I use the Default RedSDK Native Draw) and I force a redraw by unticking the "Caching of the model space" in Program Setup/Native Draw then flicking to paper space and back to Model Space to get it to update.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.