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New laptop suggestions
Read 2733 times
* June 25, 2019, 02:14:18 PM
Hi. Would I be right in thinking that TC doesn't make use of a decidated graphics card unless it's being used for rendering and 3D? The reason I ask is that I was thinking of replacing my laptop with a more powerful one. The issue I have is that I tend to work with large site maps - usually 30-40mb dwg files but often bigger -  that I then save as a TC file. I then either draw directly on top of these plans or I Xref them into a another file which then becomes my 'working' drawing  (I try to do the latter so the 'base' plan is kept seperate). The files are large because they cover a big area (I create site plans for events like half marathons). I have found that the larger the file the longer TC takes to respond - not a big surprise I suppose. However the lag (especially when using snap tools) can be so bad that the only way to draw is to turn the layer than I've created for the Xref file to off. This obviously isn't ideal because I then can't see what I'm drawing on top of! All the drawings are 2D but quite often I will also have in excess of 30 paper spaces (a half marathon isn't easy to cover when you have to reproduce the entire route on A3 size prints at a scale of 1:1000). So would a fancy graphics card make any difference or is it better to have a faster processor and plenty of RAM? The thing is that my current laptop is supposed to be pretty powerful already. I have a 2014 Lenovo W540 with an i7 processor, 24mb RAM and an SSD. The display adapters are Intel HD Graphics 4600 and an Nvidia Quadro K2100M. I'm running TurboCad 2018 on Windows 10 and I use 2 external monitors. I know my drawing files are large but this should be a fast machine so perhaps theres something wrong with my laptop! When I look at the Task Manager the power usage is often very high and about 30-40% of the RAM is being used. Any suggestions?

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June 25, 2019, 02:44:00 PM
#1
Hi,

I have recently purchased a new Lenovo P72 (see my signature below for specs) which I can recommend as the speed of just what you mention has dramatically got nice and fast.

My old Lenovo W701 was upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 7 Pro and I noticed that TC was not as fast as I was used to and was frustratingly sluggish doing simple things....

Everything has an impact on speed so it's getting a machine that has the best for your money.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* June 25, 2019, 03:03:35 PM
#2
Funnily enough I was lookings at the specs of the P52 as with the external monitors I don't need such a big screen on the laptop itself. Your P72 sounds really powerful. I'm just wondering whether there is something wrong with mine as it's not (or shouldn't be) a slow machine. My drawings are relatively simple - I use plenty of blocks, multiple viewports, plenty of layer sets and of course many paper spaces - so they're just big, but there's no rendering or 3D. My plan for a half marathon in London uses an Xref base plan which is about 70mb and over 60 paper spaces.Perhaps the phrase 'there's no replacement for displacement' is true in this case. Obviously I don't want to spend vast sums on a new machine only to find it's only a little better. Those new Lenovos do look nice though.

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June 25, 2019, 03:16:17 PM
#3
You could go down the road of refreshing it by formatting and re-installing the OS...

but before that look and try some of the recommendations here to improve performance before purchasing a new one - http://www.itechfever.com/fix-slow-running-windows-10/

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* June 25, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
#4
Thanks, I'll take a look at the link. I've actually had to reinstall the OS relatively recently - my SSD failed and I had to get a replacement one.

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June 25, 2019, 03:41:30 PM
#5
Also look at maybe installing System Mechanic which I have used for years to keep your computer up to speed... They now do a Business Version (I have the Pro) details and a demo link here - http://www.iolo.com/products/system-mechanic-business/#tab-id-2

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


June 25, 2019, 03:58:41 PM
#6
Also,
It's worth mentioning to check that TC is using the GPU seeing as you have reinstalled the OS it sometimes gets overlooked....
I know it's 3D rendering but clearly shows in the Task Manager that the Nvidia GPU is being used:
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 04:08:04 PM by Darrel Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* June 25, 2019, 11:36:40 PM
#7
Sorry for the slow response - UK time here. I'll take a look at your suggestions, thanks.

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* June 26, 2019, 11:13:38 AM
#8
Well it looks like TC is already using the GPU and I went through the tips to try and speed things up. Alas no real difference. I've had Task Manager on while using TC just to see what was being used. On the performance tab, CPU usage never really goes above 25-35% and RAM usage doesn't go above 40%. All the graphics seem to be handled by the Intel graphics (as I mentioned there's no rendering or 3D). However on the processes tab it states the power usage for TC as 'very high'. I know that's the case as the fan kicks in quite often - it's obviously working hard. The thing is when I encounter lag - especially with snap tools in large files or others that contain an XRef, the readings on the performance tab of the Task Manager don't seem to change or increase by any noticable amount. It's as if there's a 'choke' of some sort. On the processes tab it's still reading as 'very high'. It's so frustrating as much of my work now involves very large site plans and I thought my laptop and set-up should be able to handle it. Perhaps I'll try another clean install of TC. Do you think it is best to use the TC program set up to remove the software or use the Windows uninstall program?

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* June 26, 2019, 08:18:46 PM
#9
t's as if there's a 'choke' of some sort. ....

Perhaps I'll try another clean install of TC.

I dont think a clean install is going to resolve your issue ....



I am also working off a LapTop (i7 / 16gig ram) ... so below is what i would try first.


To test for how to speed things up ..... Start by turning OFF all unnecessary programs. (dedicate the resources of the laptop to TC only)

Number 1:
(Im using Win 8.1)
Window "User Account"

Try altering the "User Account Control Settings"
Control Panel > User Account > Change user Account Control Setting > Slide the BAR to "Never Notify".

Close it and fire up TC ... and see if it behaves itself.

Number 2:
Disconnect the laptop from the internet

Number 3:
Shut down ALL Anti virus software

Number 4:
Turn OFF all malware programs


Now see if you have a difference in Drawing speed



Cheers
Mike
 

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* June 26, 2019, 11:25:56 PM
#10
Thanks Mike I'll give it a go. Just got to get 2 drawings out of the way for clients then I'll give it a test.

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* July 03, 2019, 02:43:20 AM
#11
Alas with all those suggestions there's no noticable improvement. I might just try one last thing and load TC onto my wife's laptop and see if it is any quicker. If it isn't then I can only conclude that it has to do with the type of drawing that I'm working with. Even if I bind an Xref and make it part of my drawing it doesn't make any difference. Perhaps it's the simple fact that working at one to one (which is what I was told to do when I started using TC) on a 2 D drawing that is up to 7 miles wide is not as easy for TC as the 3d drawing of a house no matter how much ram / processor speed you have!   

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July 03, 2019, 03:20:58 AM
#12
Hi. Would I be right in thinking that TC doesn't make use of a decidated graphics card unless it's being used for rendering and 3D?

Here's what you have to look for when choosing hardware for use with TurboCAD: http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,25885.msg147581.html#msg147581.  Vlad is one of the programmers.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* July 03, 2019, 05:03:33 PM
#13
Alas with all those suggestions there's no noticable improvement.

I have had success with Glarysoft registry repair  >>> https://www.glarysoft.com/?src=10000

Warning tho >> mucking about with the registry can be dangerous. << Create a windows RESTORE POINT before use.
Do not use a unknown Regstry repair software .... I tried quite a few >> They all gave grief >> Only Glarysoft is the one that i found stable. (if things go bad >> then do a windows system restore)

Cheers
Mike

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* July 04, 2019, 09:21:01 AM
#14
Cheers Mike, I'll take a look.

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* August 02, 2019, 12:55:56 AM
#15
Well my trusty 5 year old Lenovo W540 started playing up again yesterday - not shutting down, not starting up properly, bit of blue screen, sometimes no screen at all! I think a new laptop is on the cards as I can't afford to not have a working machine for my drawings - it is my living after all.  I'm not going to get rid of the W540 - once I have a new machine i'll do a clean reinstall of Win 10 and hand it down to my student daughter who can use it for college work. I run 2 external screens plus the one on the laptop. I'm tempted by a Lenovo P52 due to the high spec you get for the money - i7-8750H 6 core, 512 SSD, 16gb RAM, Quadro P1000 with 3 year manufacturers warranty for £1,200. According to the requirements for TurboCad it should absolutely fly through what I'm throwing at it. For whatever reason my W540 struggles, especially when snapping to points - but then again perhaps I'm asking too much when working on a 70mb drawing incorporating 3 X-ref files (each about 30mb) with 80 paper spaces and over 200 layers. No 3D or rendering though. I've seen several negative comments re the reliability of the Lenovo P series and some have suggested an HP Z Book instead but with the same spec and warranty as the P52 it'll cost quite a bit more. Obviously people generally comment more on forums with negative aspects rather than positive ones as they're looking for a solution to a problem but I'm sure there are people out there with Lenovo P Series laptops who are happy with their performance and reliability!

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August 02, 2019, 03:33:42 AM
#16
Sorry to hear that your Lenovo is playing up. I had very similar problems with my Lenovo W701 which I have worked very hard over the years. I had major Blue Screen problems about a year or two ago and found that it was the ram and I took all the sticks out and carefully and cleaned the contacts Deoxit D5.
A couple of months ago I took the W701 apart and reseated the heatsinks on the CPU and GPU with new Thermal Paste, blew out the cooling fans and circuitry with compressed air and lubricated the fans with Silicone spray. Once I reassembled it was incredibly quiet, and as you know Lenovo's are renown for having very low running noise.

I installed Windows 10 Pro on it and after I had made the decision to buy my new Lenovo P72 it began to behave itself (it was just shutting down for no reason and randomly) after a few OS updates.

I can certainly recommend servicing it if you are confident in doing it yourself.

Have you run a RAM Stick Check?.... when the blue screen shows, what does it say?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 03:40:09 AM by Darrel Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 02, 2019, 05:08:03 AM
#17
I haven't checked the RAM. However when I first got the W540 I bought some additional Crucial RAM to supplement the sticks already in it. It had several BSODs early on in its life although it did seem to stabilise after a while. I have since removed it and have had far fewer blue screen episodes. That could also been down to driver and bios updates. That said, the other day I had a blue screen but no text, Can you recommend a RAM checker - seem to be plenty on the web but I'd rather use one recommended to me.

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August 02, 2019, 10:06:30 AM
#18

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 02, 2019, 11:36:40 AM
#19
Hi Daz. I checked using the built in windows one - no errors.

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August 02, 2019, 11:51:44 AM
#20
Okay, Good

Have you checked your Lenovo Vantage for system updates.... just ran mine and look another Bios update.... this is the third or fourth Bios update for this machine!


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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 02, 2019, 02:54:53 PM
#21
Funnily enough I did that today! So from all this I can only deduce that it seems (with a few glitches here and there) to be running ok. It just struggles with the types of drawings I do.

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* August 03, 2019, 04:14:17 AM
#22
I'm just wondering if a newer laptop, say a P52 would perform better than my existing W540 machine (glitchy that it is although the RAM test is clear and it's up to date re bios and drivers). The thing that is so frustrating is when I have the following scenario. A large drawing in which another large drawing - usually a plan of part of a city - is X-reffed in. I use this X-reffed plan as a sort of template over which I do my drawing. I always assign the x-reffed drawing to a new layer in my drawing and call it something like 'Base Plan'. I then continue with my drawing, using the base plan as a guide so I know where to place infrastructure, staffing points, text etc. Quite often I have to plot lines and hatch areas which means using the snap tools on points on the X-reffed base plan - and this is when it is terribly slow as there is a lag while it identifies and then latches onto that point. This can take several seconds for each point and as you can imagine, if I'm trying to hatch out a road or street, it could take ages. However when I turn off the 'Base Plan' layer that the x-reffed plan is assigned to, TurboCad returns to its usual speed. The downside is that I now can't see the base plan that I'm using as a guide! So is this down to processor speed and RAM or something else. I just don't know. The bigger the files (40mb upwards), the slower it is.

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August 03, 2019, 04:24:02 AM
#23
Could you Dropbox a drawing example for us to see if there is anything we can do to help?

How much RAM is used when a problem drawing is in use?... What is the GPU load also?

How do you do your snapping?... have you tried reducing the snap aperture?


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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 03, 2019, 05:25:07 AM
#24
Havent read all your posts but I had some issues a while back wirh xref files. You have more than enough ram so I reckon you should ditch the xref file, by opening your xref file then your main drawing. Or open the original file that you made to create the xref file cos you want all the layer names.

Tile both open window drawings then drag in all xrefed files into the main drawing. This should overcome your slow response. Make a backup 1st. Its worth trying this or other alternatives before you spend money on a new system.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* August 03, 2019, 05:50:45 AM
#25
I'll have to see if I can find a suitable drawing to share - there's a lot of confidentiality involved so they're tricky to share. I'll see what I can find.

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* August 03, 2019, 06:44:27 AM
#26
One of the reasons why I use X-Ref files is because my drawings are usually based on the file. ie the client provides me with a base plan which is usually an area of a city or town. It normally comes to me as a dwg so I open it then then save it as a tcw (the dwgs nearly always come in inches so I change the units to metres). I then create a new blank drawing which will be my working drawing and xref in the supplied base plan. So in reality I'm drawing over the top of the xreffed plan. There are a couple of reasons why I do this. Firstly it keeps my working drawing file size down. Secondly if something bad happens to my working drawing, a crash or corruption, it's unlikely to also affect the xreffed base plan. Thirdly it's quite common that my drawing area will be extended in the future and for that I need to also extend the base plan. When this happen, the client usually provides me with additional dwg tiles which I can simply import into the base plan and they drop in in the correct location automatically. This happens, for example, if I'm producing plans for a half marathon but the following year the route changes. I'll then create the viewports and paper spaces I want and a series of layer sets - turning the relevant layers on / off in both my working drawing and the Xreffed base plan. I then apply these layer sets to the relevant viewports in the paper spaces. If both the files are large then snapping to points on either the Xreffed plan OR the working drawing can take ages. If I make the base plan layer invisible then snapping to points (on on my working drawing because obviously I can't see the Xreff plan with it switched off) returns to its usual fast speed. That's about it!   

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* August 03, 2019, 07:38:56 AM
#27
I've been following this thread the past couple of weeks, since I've been out of steady employment.

I've also gone back and read through some of your, lakkabay, previous Forum threads.  I was reminded that I was heavily involved in helping to work through some issues.  (It all seemed familiar.)

Yours is a very particular use of TurboCAD.  Your TC performance problem really piques my interest and that part of me that likes to diagnose and resolve/fix things.
I'm wondering/thinking that the problems you encounter are inherently within the original .dwg/.dxf files.

Your clients are getting the .dxf/.dwg "site plans" from somewhere.  Presumably, somewhere of public domain.  Otherwise-- What are they doing?... contacting the original engineering/surveying firms and purchasing, with councils' permission, the CAD files?

Where can we-- fellow Forum Members interested in helping with the issue-- find and download those CAD files?

-Alvin
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 07:46:11 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* August 03, 2019, 09:08:51 AM
#28
Hi Alvin. Yes I remember you helping me out before with a few issues for which I’m very grateful! The base plans can come from the local authority and quite often they are outputted from a GIS system that many local authorities over here use. It may be with the conversion to a dwg that contributes to the problem. The other way to get hold of the base plan dwg is via an official distributor of UK mapping. I should do a test to see if there is any difference between the two types. I did do a previous test a while back to see if it made any difference if i just drew on top of one of these plans (rather than xreffing it in) and I see to remember it didn’t. Sometimes I think it might just be the size (as in area covered? of the base plan. After all it could be half a city! As you say my use of TC is probably quite unique but I know of others who do a similar job but they use Autocad - the difference being that all the plans stay as dwgs whereas I convert them to tcws.

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August 03, 2019, 09:45:52 AM
#29
Are they anything like the attached?...

Map details
File Type: AutoCAD DXF
Area: 0.995 km2
Spatial Reference System: Meters; UTM zone: 30, easting: 624229.78, northing: 5868271.73
Buildings: 1241 footprints
Topography: None
Settings: Road outlines (highways 8.0, major 8.0, minor 8.0, paths 5.0)


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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 03, 2019, 02:46:06 PM
#30
Daz, very similar. The ones I usually receive are quite a bit bigger though (could be over 10km / 6 miles wide) and often contain detail such as  posts, trees, district and political boundaries, historical reference points etc. However they are not dissimilar to that example. I suppose I could try to delete many of the elements that aren’t relevant but I try and keep the base plans I’ve been provided with unmolested and just turn off the layers I don’t need to see.

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* August 03, 2019, 03:26:40 PM
#31
Don't look for a problem in your hardware, it's useless.
If you use dwg files and especially as xref, the program response will be very slow.
The 2/3 problems in Turbocad tend to be the same as those seen on ODA interface products. But not this slow response of the program. Personally, I think there is a problem in the internal transformation of TurboCAD coordinates. His control - when, how and what. Many other problems I have identified suggest this.

To speed up work leads - convert dwg to tcw and use this as xref.
Mostly, at least I need the resulting dwg file. And here using xref as tcw files is not a good way.

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August 03, 2019, 04:11:03 PM
#32
I would look at saving out the DWG as a DWF as this reduces file size... like the example I posted above was a 822KB as the DWG and As a DWF reduced down to 81KB, it looks the same quality opening.

I was working on a very detailed DWG drawing a while ago and posted about it in the Beta forum that was horrendously sluggish .... Even AutoCAD has issues with large xrefs…. that's what someone on there forum advised they do.. DWG to DWF as an xref…

Also this could help from that forum:

Re: Very large XREF causing problems
We had this issue before when using very large x-ref and there was a couple of ways we got around it
 
- Is your x-ref attached or overlayed? We found when the x-refs were attached they were causing a slow down in the drawing.
 
- Can your x-ref be clipped? Our x-ref was of a large highway so we cropped the xref down so it only showed the area we wanted, this also improved speed of drawings.


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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* August 03, 2019, 11:35:36 PM
#33
sounds like a good tip. Thanks Darrel!
I often have this issue - sometimes it seems like TC is trying to snap to hidden entities.


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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* August 03, 2019, 11:45:50 PM
#34
Funnily enough Nikki I also find that in some cases it snaps to unknown and unseen items in the drawing! When I get the dwg that I want to xref into my drawing I always save it as a tcw first and then I xref it in. I'll try the other suggestions.

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