Wow is this software a challenge.
You must have either a very high IQ, or the patience of a saint.
I am trying to do what should be quite simple things and getting nowhere.

So post a picture or file so that we can help or explain in some detail what your trying to achieve???

I would agree-- I would say that it does take at least average intelligence and patience to become at least moderately proficient with TurboCAD or any CAD program without giving up trying to learn.  Or just gotta want it real, real, bad.  -Alvin

Wow is this software a challenge.
You must have either a very high IQ, or the patience of a saint.
I am trying to do what should be quite simple things and getting nowhere.

My IQ doesn't fall in the very high range. My first version of TC was v7 circa 2001. I started by trying all the basic tools lines, rectangles, circles etc. And asking questions on this forum. You'll be surprised how much help you'll get if you approach things with a positive attitude. Everybody here started TC with the same knowledge you had when you started. It's a learning curve, the farther
you go the easier it gets. Ask questions, have fun.

Maybe the way you're trying to do those simple things isn't the way that TC does them?  There's a workaround...

I think all cad programs are difficult. But with perseverance anyone can do this.
The trick is to start simple. No one learns to ride a bicycle before they learn to walk.
I found turbocad easy to learn but I had previous experience with autocad.
 I also started using autocad when it was a straightforward 2d program.
Start with 2d. Learn the basics
Lines circles shapes.
Once you have mastered those move onto the basic editing tools.
copy, move, mirror trim.
Watch simple tutorials which show one command at a time. Practice each task until you have mastered it then move on to the next one.
Once you know most of the basic tools. Try a more complicated 2d tutorial. or start a project of your own.
When you are comfortable with 2d commands move on to 3d. Start from the basics again.
Ask lots of questions here and read the forum regularly. Try to answer the questions others ask - even if it is only in your head-
read everyone else's solutions. Try all those solutions see what works best for you.
It takes years and lots of hours to learn the whole program. You might never learn everything because you don't need all the tools to be productive.

I am trying to model an old car. And I have used cad before but not daily.
My first thought where to sweep a curve along a profile and use that to cut from a solid( cannot do this as I get the self intersecting warning) my next approach is to sketch sections vertically along the length and loft them then I can happily loft one section to the next (and get a straight loft) but if I try and do a loft of all shapes in one go it doesn't let me(I need to do this because I want the curves)
Aaarrrgh so frustrating.

You shouldn't have a problem with lofting but there are a few advisory rules.

Draw the most complex curve first using as few nodes as possible.
Use make copy tool to copy this first profile to however many stations are needed (then turn off make copy)
Node edit the profiles to the final shape ensuring not to add nor delete any nodes, and trying to keep the nodes from making too sharp a detour from one profile to the next.
Do not mirror copy any profile.

If you can post an image or file of where you are up to, there are plenty of people on here who can advise on lofting.

I strongly endorse Andy's advice. Be advised that the project you have chosen to undertake is really quite difficult. Expect lots of trial-and-error.

Henry H

This is what I am trying to model
If anyone has any ideas.

 I take it mirror copy is a No no because the axis get flipped. Why does the profile have to be a clone of the previous one?  Is this because TC is trying to match nodes to nodes?

Thanks again

This is what I am trying to model
If anyone has any ideas.

 I take it mirror copy is a No no because the axis get flipped. Why does the profile have to be a clone of the previous one?  Is this because TC is trying to match nodes to nodes?

Thanks again

i wouldn't say it's a "No no"  it's not all that simple 
For instance >
If working in 3D selector mode and in the selector 3d properties under manipulation "safe ucs mode" is checked.
You should be able to mirror copy 2D and 3d entiities without the axis being flipped.

IF "safe ucs mode" is un-checked then you can mirror copy a 2d object while in 2d select mode without the axis being flipped.

Wow is this software a challenge.
You must have either a very high IQ, or the patience of a saint.

Speaking from experience, an average IQ and somewhat saintly level of patience will be adequate. 

What is really helpful is a beginning-to-end tutorial, such as those that Don Cheke sells at http://www.textualcreations.ca/Textual%20Creations%20Shopping%20Page.html.  Get one that is for your TurboCAD version (or possibly a later one, but not an earlier one because he writes these tutorials to demonstrate new functions).  Don has also been quite helpful when I have encountered problems (this can happen with different installations on different computers).  Don also posts video tutorials on YouTube, but those are better suited for people who already have a handle on TurboCAD's basic-to-moderate functionality.


Jeff

I began by crafting Medieval-ish add-ons using the TC Deluxe bundled with my classic 'FloorPlan'. Yes, that TC had the legacy 3D Boolean mesh-bug and, often locked up my work-flow. I also used Poser 4, which allowed me to export scenes and modules from both FP & TC, populate them with higher-poly figures...

Due to a Spring storm and a batch of too-cheap drives, my sprawling project literally 'crashed & burned'. I did salvage a lot of files, but could not afford replacement hardware for almost a decade. During this time, all my software became too old to qualify for discounted upgrades....

( I'll not rant that the 'new' FP was still not back-compatible; This is only my first post this time around, and I've found another program for that task...  )

IMHO, you need a lot of screen edge to park TC's many tool-bars.

Even a 'pre-loved' second screen, perhaps driven from a USB widget, is well worth the desk-space. I had two identical screens running off matched Nvidia Gigabyte cards. This DIY 'CAD Tower' has three wider screens running off a matched pair of Nvidia Gigabyte GTX 750 Ti 'Twin DVI' cards. 'Gotcha' is Gigabyte's bundled Win'10 driver is optimised for gaming, will NOT play nicely with third screen. You must install Nvidia's *generic' driver which can handle four or more.

FWIW, I'm adding a DVI switch box to co-opt the smaller screen on adjacent 'Browser PC, hopefully making '4-up'...

Hide most of the 'advanced ' tool-bars lest you need GPS to navigate the rest. Increase the size of the others until you can actually see their iddy-biddy, teeny-weeny icons.

Then, fetch up one of the screen-templates that has multiple views. Unless your project is purely 2D, you'll probably need XYZ orthogonals plus perspective for navigation, plus a larger, 'WIP' view to tackle detail without getting lost...

Please give some thought to why you're using TC for a 'clay-carving' task. Yes, use TC to populate the drive-line, layers of tech 'stuff' etc, but a free or budget 3D 'artistic' program may be a better fit to crafting the body-shell. Do check mesh cross-compatibility lest you paint yourself into an exasperating corner...

The sculpting type software I tried it but couldn't get the hang of it . It seems more suited to an artist. I used pro engineer thousands of years ago and so sweeps and fillets seemed like the answer. It didn't seem so tricky back then to get stuff to work.

I am getting somewhere. The problem with TC is that nothing seems as easy as you think it should be, and so I end up compromising that the shape is near enough and not perfect.

Variable radius fillets is not working for me at the minute, it says I have to select 2 points and when I do it still tells me to select 2 points.

"Variable radius" fillet is a bit tricky and not worth the effort, IMO. Try "Holdline blend."

Henry H

Indeed - and to the Quantum Physicist's IQ and the saint's patience, add the cunning of Machiavelli.

It is not easy to learn, but I think TC is no different from a lot of IT and telecommunications hardware and software sold now - what aids or "Help"s are issued, if at all, are merely reminders for the experienced and assume you already know all the basics. Only. no-one publishers anything to help you learn the basics.

I have found TC doesn't always do what you think it will even when following its own prompts very carefully; there is no obvious order to the way functions work; I still haven't managed to discover the point of that weird Paper Space / Model Space  division and their haphazardly-inconsistent printer menus!

Hey mattygreen can I suggest that maybe your best course of action is to plan your design approach at each critical step and keep asking question on the forum. You'll never run out of people offering to help here in the forum. Post either screen images or tcw files when you need help with specific parts of your design. Im into mechanical design myself and having many years of knowledge does help me, likewise if your into architectural design designing a house would be easy. I guess if you have the under pinning knowledge in the first place that will help enormously when learning TurboCAD. Good luck!

 I still haven't managed to discover the point of that weird Paper Space / Model Space  division and their haphazardly-inconsistent printer menus!

Hey Nigel can you expand on the above and be more specific!

Now found why it uses that "Space" division, thank you to people who guided me to its purpose!

It also solved a question I'd asked elsewhere, ,about magnified scaling.

" and to the Quantum Physicist's IQ and the saint's patience, add the cunning of Machiavelli."
A Mild-ish exaggeration, to be sure, to be sure !!

Still, it helps if your short-term memory is okay-- Mine is still wonky after Winter bronchitis and near-pneumonia, keeps dropping details, work-flow steps etc...

Doesn't help that I remember I used to run TC fairly competently, but now I struggle with basics again !!
{ The pitons keep falling out of my 'first pitch' up the learning curve... }

Upside, my slow progress has given me time to spot and resolve some lingering plan contentions. And, given ACIS' robust 3D Booleans, figure a better work-flow...

I found it can be very misleading - it does not always do what you think it will even when you are pretty sure you are following what passes for instructions in the on-line features-catalogue, sorry, Manual.

It's worse if you have no previous CAD experience, because the Manual's writers have not grasped that possibility so really only say what TurboCAD does, but not how to make it do it.

The programmes itself does come with sample drawings to play with, but they and the Manual alone are not enough if you are a beginner, so you risk learning only a few rudimentary moves and then only by rote.  Some of the samples, and the two on the CD's box-label, are downright discouraging; obviously by an expert showing off. They shout "it's easy - anyone can do it", like trying to teach piano-playing from recordings of Rachmaninov concerti, or climbing from climbing-expedition books.

The Manual is not easy to use either. Its pdf file is so sensitive the slightest mis-scrolling takes you far from the page you were on. So, to help, I copied the contents page into a 'Word' document, then rendered the raw mess legible by laboriously deleting hundreds of dotted lines and chivvying the page-numbers into a neat column. I can now find the bits I want, far more efficiently.


Not a good idea to have runners falling out... but my assault on the North Face of the Learning Curve is still a struggle through the basal scrub and scree even before the first pitch, and with my head for software matching that for heights I am more Rum Doodle than Eiger material!   Wouldn't be surprised if there's some desperately extreme climb somewhere called something like "Dream of Learning CAD".

You're right about the twitchy PDF; at least with it parked on its own display, stuff is harder to lose...

But why do so many topics start at the very bottom of a page, not the top ?? Virtual paper is free !!

One thing that does bug me is the manual index being organised 'US-Style', as a list of topic headings, without enough cross-references. Instead, think 'Dictionary' where eg RAFT will give you boat, foundations, George and a bunch of sea-otters !!

Finding a topic often means guessing what it might be called. Plan_B is 'degrees of separation', where you start from some-where tangential then explore the links-- And there goes the evening !!

FWIW, I've now been warned that I was so debilitated I should allow 6~~8 months before my 'focus' fully recovers...
 

I found that having a printed copy of the pdf manual's index to hand, a boon. To make it readable and not drain the printer's dot-cartridge or my paper stock, I turned it into a 'Word' document to make it editable - albeit very laboriously.

The difficulty is that you need to know CAD concepts before you learn to use it! I know engineering-drawing, both orthographic and isometric, but CAD adds a morass of extra concepts and techniques of its own between imagined item and image of item; and many of these are by no means intuitive, self-explanatory or explained. 

I've managed to progress to making basic 2D (orthographic) drawings I can use in my workshop even if they don't follow modern industrial standards, are by the best way to use TurboCAD for the given task, or use more than a few TC functions; but much of that is thanks to help on this Forum, not from the manual!.   

With regards to the manual not explaining the basic concepts of cad.
 I don't think it is right, but I don't think it is going to change either.
Turbocad isn't most peoples first CAD experience. Usually people teaching themselves start with a free cad program and only invest later.
AND  Cad is being  taught at schools now, so fewer users don't know anything about Cad in general.
Once you know one CAD program you can usually switch to another with a only a little bit of swearing,  once you learn the differences the concepts are all similar. So it is easier to learn the second program.

I had a feeling that previous experience may be the case!

The main problem is not knowing the general CAD principles and concepts, even when you know those of technical drawing.

Nigel do a search on the net for these files re CAD:

drafters-terminology.pdf
NASA GSFC-X-673-64-1F.pdf
CADGlossaryTerms.pdf
fundamentals_of_drafting_sample.pdf
technical_drawing_specifications.pdf

I learned a lot from their information.

Thank you Darryl.

I've just tried looking for those files you list, but had no luck.

Anything ending ".pdf" tells me the main part of the name cannot be found, but helpfully tries to sell me Adobe pdf-converters. I experimented with breaking the compound titles you give into their separate words, but that made no difference.

Something titled CAD-FCA turned out to be by the Financial Conduct Authority, a UK Govt. agency overseeing the money-trade!

I met a review of a weighty text-book on standard CAD terms - the sample one of over 400pages, refers to CRT displays, and sure enough the publication date was 1982, so it may be out of date.

An on-line glossary I discovered, was restricted to something called FreeCAD; and omits terms I now know to be key CAD concepts, like 'Layers'. 

Otherwise the www appears awash with AutoCAD.

Thank you Darryl.

I've just tried looking for those files you list, but had no luck.

See if these are close enough.


Jeff

Thank you Very Much, Jeff

They worked this time and all but the NASA Standards are safely stored!  They simply needed the web-site "packing materials" around them.

My thoughts on the three:

   The Glossary of CAD terms seems to be from a text-book, judging by many "(Ch. nn)" references. I accept it may not quite follow TurboCAD's lexicon: e.g., omitting my two test terms, "Dimetric " and "Layers". In fact TC makes Dimetric obvious, by neat tool-bar symbols. Layers? I have grasped at least their notion and purpose.  (I remember professional draughstmen, working manually, using similar by stacking drawings on translucent film, below the one being drawn.)

   "technical drawing specification" - Australian -  concentrates more on the drawings' contents than how to drive the draughting programme, but is useful revision, helping tie the Drawing to the Computer-Aiding.

  "vdocuments": Also more about what you are drawing than how to draw it, but this Canadian paper's value is in showing proper, modern drawing conventions including dimensions and information-blocks (title, scale, material etc.). It uses more architecture than mechanical engineering, and I don't foresee me needing to design the gents' lavatory it gleefully uses as an example, but it is generally very helpful. By the by, I spotted a footnote that it's millimeter in the USA, ~metre in Canada, as in the UK: the French influence. This may mean the Canadian drawings conventions are more ISO than US, too.

The NASA one- This is really to help professional designers and managers comply with the Agency's QC needs, so its considerable amount of information is specific to NASA (and probably other US civil-service engineering). It's not how to draw drawings - its authors assume you know that, and NASA's different suppliers will have chosen their own CAD packages. So perhaps less useful to me, in another country with equivalent but differing technical standards (and officially, supposedly all-metric!), and trying to learn to use TurboCAD for far less onerous purposes than space-stations. 

Of them, probably the Glossary and the Canadian document will be the most useful of the four.

So thank you very much.

None of them were intended to be a tutorial on how to use a CAD program; they present and explain standards for the finished documents.

There are tutorials specifically related to TurboCAD.  IMSI sells some for 2D and 3D.  Don Cheke (http://www.textualcreations.ca/Textual%20Creations%20Shopping%20Page.html)has a variety of tutorials that are oriented towards explaining new features in different versions.  You can also find tutorials from a variety of creators on YouTube.


Jeff

There's a book called "Parametric and Feature-based CAD/CAM", (Shah, Mäntylä) which is listed at some eye-watering prices, but I found my copy on Amazon for about $25 in amongst the headier prices, and there are still cheaper prices.  Published in 1995, it's an academic book that describes technical concepts used in CAD and processes that CAD is designed to facilitate, but isn't stuffy or dry.  It has extensive references and there are questions at the end of each chapter, so you can gauge how much you've learned from each.  No point in tackling it if you're looking for instructions that tell you how to reproduce drawing board processes with a computer, or how to use ANY CAD program, but it's a comprehensive description of CAD/CAM concepts.   600-odd pages.
The title is also a good search term for other presentations and literature.   

Thank you Murray.

I suspect it would be too advanced for me, but I do appreciate it would not cover specific "makes" of CAD.

I recall now once - only once - seeing listed somewhere a TurboCAD manual, but whether by IMSI or a third-party author I don't know; nor do I know which TC version it described. So they did exist, but it was far too expensive for a private buyer. (Such books are printed for a very limited industrial and academic market.)

I've a proper paper manual for v9, but it is a 'reference' manual, and close kin to the current PDFs. At least for the 2D/3D 'basics', it covers all the functions I'm likely to need for the next year or two !!

Thank you Murray.

I suspect it would be too advanced for me, but I do appreciate it would not cover specific "makes" of CAD.

I recall now once - only once - seeing listed somewhere a TurboCAD manual, but whether by IMSI or a third-party author I don't know; nor do I know which TC version it described. So they did exist, but it was far too expensive for a private buyer. (Such books are printed for a very limited industrial and academic market.)

Yes they did exist, but it cost to much to send it as it was pretty heavy, i still have mine from V 17, only a few pages that are loose after alot of use.
Back then i believe i pay something like 150 $ for it in Norway
It cover exactly the same as the pdf now do and it was IMSI that sold it

But why dont you not just print the pdf's if you want it on paper. copy paper is not expencive, 1 Box a 500 paper's and you have it.

Torfinn

Yes - I have printed part of it, but so far just the index to help me find things on the on-line original. My problem really was that the IMSI manual assumes users already understand the broad principles and pitfalls, so need only pointers to TurboCAD's own forms of them.

Yeah, that i can agree with, thats why the Wiki was so good, but sadly now it's gone.

Torfinn

Given the chances of paper jams and the totally daft cost of home-laser (*) toner cartridges, I'd rather explore local eprint-shops. If they can whizz off 500~600 flyers, throwing TC's mega-PDF onto paper should be easy. Double sided, too ? Bound by chapter ??

*) AKA 'NOT tax-deductible'...

See if this Adobe document cloud link works for you, Nigel.
https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/3abaea9e-e504-4bf0-b7f5-d9d63e6b4749
This is the user guide pdf for V6 pro, it's pretty sparse compared to recent versions' guides, so it might be a little less intimidating, and it's got a bit of how to because there weren't that many tools to describe in them thar distant days. 

Thank you Murray & Nik.

I've just had a quick look but it seems pretty comprehensive given version limits.

Nik - You imply printing the whole caboodle. I would not do that. I printed the Index, but use that as quicker and easier to use than keep flitting back up and down the document. If I need paper copies of specific bits I print only those, and they can be filed in a ring-binder.

More than MENSA IQ and saintly patience, Matty.

Dogged persistence too, but even then it's not enough.

Learning to use TurboCAD is like any other very advanced field of endeavour - to be able to use it usefully you need the innate ability to learn it, and you need a very high limit on what you can learn of it.

I believe we each have a finite limit on how far we can advance with any one activity - academic, practical, artistic, sporting, etc. The people who post those brochure-standard "paintings" on the Gallery obviously have those qualities by the bucket-full, just as do, say, quantum physicists or concert pianists. Now such people work hard at gaining their skills, mainly through a lot of practice; but practice is a memory-charger and you can't remember what you have not been able to understand hence learn in the first place.

I want to be able to use TurboCAD at what to the Gallery artists is a very basic level - isometric and orthogonal, outline and sectioned, part- and assembly- drawings of machines. That's what I bought the software and an A3 printer for.  I accept I can never learn to produce rendered, lighted, pictures of churches and sectioned jet-engines,  but I respect and admire the skill involved, even though envying it.

Unfortunately I feel I cannot progress even to the basic level I want. The isometric projection's world of work-planes and strangely-variable co-ordinate systems becomes more and more incomprehensible the more I try to understand what I think the manual tells me to do to make particular thing happen and I think I've identified the right instruction set in the book and menu on the screen - and that to just simple blocks and cylinders.   

So I would add a further quality to the list. It's the humility to recognise your aptitude and limit are low, so when you crash into it you can more easily accept what bit you have managed to learn. Otherwise it's even more frustrating, and you start to wonder the second-hand value of an A3 ink-jet printer (little used, by one careful owner in smoke- and pet- free home).

Nigel give it a break for a few days. Then try again.
That's is what I do when something doesn't work for me the way I think it is supposed to.
Somehow the mental reprieve works.