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Why is Midpoint not the midpoint?
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* February 17, 2015, 01:35:25 AM
I have a rectangular 3D plate at some odd angle in space (ie. not aligned to any useful axis).
If I use Workplane by Facet I can draw a line from the midpoint of one of the edges (see DD1).
If, however, I use Workplane by 3 Points to define the workplane on the plate's surface, then use the Design Director's View by Workplane, and then try to draw the same line, the midpoint is way off. DD2 and DD3 show different views of the same wrong midpoint.
Why?

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


* February 17, 2015, 08:32:18 AM
#1
Gary, I suspect that your Workplane by 3 Points isn't really on the face of the plate. If it were, then the View by Workplane would not show the two non-parallel plates with all four edges aligned.

Henry H

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February 17, 2015, 10:32:12 AM
#2
Gary, when working in 3D, don't you typically have the "User Coordinate System" icon visible?

Wouldn't that help to ensure your "Workplane by Facet" or "Workplane by 3 Points" turned out to be what you actually hoped for?

I notice that it is visibly absent in your screen-captures.

______
On another note:  I can't seem to find "View by Workplane" in my Design Director.  Makes me wonder what you're clicking on.  Or, maybe it's just not in my version/edition, and it is in yours.
Can't even find "View by Workplane" in my list of available Commands.  I've got "View/Camera/By Workplane", though-- which I use.


~Alvin
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 12:05:13 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 17, 2015, 11:41:07 AM
#3

Alvin,

I use the keyboard short-cut Ctrl+Shift+W (default) for View by Workplane.  Is this not available in Deluxe?

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


February 17, 2015, 11:46:36 AM
#4

Alvin,

I use the keyboard short-cut Ctrl+Shift+W (default) for View by Workplane.  Is this not available in Deluxe?

Regards Tim

Not in my custom Workspace Configuration.  Though, it easily could be, if I wanted it to (although, it would be the "By Workplane" Command I noted previously).

How about "View by Workplane" in Design Director as Gary mentioned?  Do you have that in DD, Tim?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:52:42 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 17, 2015, 11:52:34 AM
#5

Yes, see attachment.  It's always been there . . .

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


February 17, 2015, 11:53:12 AM
#6


Yes, see attachment.  It's always been there . . .

Regards Tim

Attachment didn't make it Tim.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 17, 2015, 11:54:15 AM
#7
Alvin, you're just too quick on the draw, or, I'm too slow!  ;D

« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:57:10 AM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


February 17, 2015, 12:01:36 PM
#8
Alvin, you're just too quick on the draw, or, I'm too slow!  ;D

Yeah, I get going pretty quick sometimes. :-)

What-- and where-- is the icon for "By Workplane" in Design Director?  Can you show me a screen-capture with your cursor pointing on it Tim?

(sorry to clutter up your thread Gary; I won't go much longer on this)
~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 17, 2015, 12:03:52 PM
#9
Alvin, you're just too quick on the draw, or, I'm too slow!  ;D

Yeah, I get going pretty quick sometimes. :-)

What-- and where-- is the icon for "By Workplane" in Design Director?  Can you show me a screen-capture with your cursor pointing on it Tim?

(sorry to clutter up your thread Gary; I won't go much longer on this)
~Alvin

Nevermind.  I found it.  But that would require a Named Workplane having already been established.  Which Gary didn't include in his steps in his first post.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 17, 2015, 12:11:57 PM
#10
I have a rectangular 3D plate at some odd angle in space (ie. not aligned to any useful axis).
If I use Workplane by Facet I can draw a line from the midpoint of one of the edges (see DD1).
If, however, I use Workplane by 3 Points to define the workplane on the plate's surface, then use the Design Director's View by Workplane, and then try to draw the same line, the midpoint is way off. DD2 and DD3 show different views of the same wrong midpoint.
Why?

If you use the Design Director's (Workplane section) "View by Workplane" command, that won't get you to the Plan View of the current Workplane unless the Named Workplane in DD/Workplane just happens to be the same as the current Workplane.
  (which, reading your procedure, quoted above, doesn't seem like is the case)

I think you want to use View/Camera/Plan/By Workplane (Command= "By Workplane"; ToolTip= "UCS Plan") if you just established a new Workplane, but haven't yet made it a Named Workplane.

As far as Middle-Point-Snapping the Line goes, I'd stay in some sort of 3D View-- one of the Standards provided, or one I slightly rotated, zoomed, etc.  That way you can more accurately see if you're actually snapping to what you're intending on snapping to.

~Alvin
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:46:17 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 17, 2015, 10:32:18 PM
#11
[
I think you want to use View/Camera/Plan/By Workplane (Command= "By Workplane"; ToolTip= "UCS Plan") if you just established a new Workplane, but haven't yet made it a Named Workplane.

~Alvin
I would have used it had it been available, but it isn't in my V21 as you can see. I used to use it in my trusty V16, but I couldn't find it in my V21
The only way I could find was by using the DD. And it doesn't look like its in my DD either (see DP5).

Have I mentioned that I'm somewhat disenchanted with V21.

I see what you mean Henry, but irrespective of the view, it quite happily chose a midpoint of something, but what? Its on the edge I requested but it doesn't look to be midway between any features of that edge.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:30:39 PM by lemel_man »

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


* February 18, 2015, 01:14:03 AM
#12
Have you been to Customize/ Commands and look if it's there
I have dragged the "Dimetric" and "UCS plan" in to my Standard View toolbar and use it in Pop-Up Toolbars so i can get it just by rigthclicking the mouse and later use the arrow key to rotate it

Torfinn

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V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18/ 19 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe 2015/ 16/ 19
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* February 18, 2015, 01:36:29 AM
#13
Torfinn, UCS Plan doesn't show View by Workplane on my system.
Tim, Ctl+Shift+W doesn't give View by Workplane either. It gives me UCS Plan, which is not the same.
As mentioned earlier, V16 gave me View by Workplane in the Camera options, but I just can't find it in my super wonderful V21 PP.
Where is it in my system?

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


* February 18, 2015, 02:44:31 AM
#14
By WP i also find in Customize/ Commands/ Camera/ By Work plane

If you dont have it there, i would first close TC and then delete the content of the Buildt In folder by writing %appdata% in win start, then you come to the Roaming folder, and from there you go to \Roaming\IMSIDesign\TurboCAD\21x64\Professional\Profiles\Built-in and delete all the files and the configfolder inside, TC will re-build it when starting TC again, but ofcourse you will then need to choose you cfg, template, etc to get it back to your normal system.

Nest step is to do a Repair if it dont work and finally a full un/ re install of TC

What cfg do you use ??

Torfinn

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V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18/ 19 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe 2015/ 16/ 19
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


February 18, 2015, 03:38:24 AM
#15
Torfinn, UCS Plan doesn't show View by Workplane on my system.
Tim, Ctl+Shift+W doesn't give View by Workplane either. It gives me UCS Plan, which is not the same.
As mentioned earlier, V16 gave me View by Workplane in the Camera options, but I just can't find it in my super wonderful V21 PP.
Where is it in my system?

Hi Gary,

have a look at attachment.

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


February 18, 2015, 04:49:14 AM
#16
I sense the confusion Gary.  There are two different "(view) By Workplane" commands, and they sound very similar.

There's the "View by Workplane" found in DesignDirector/Workplane, which takes us to the Plan View of that Named Workplane, no matter what the current Workplane (UCS) is.

And there's the by Workplane command; it's Tool Tip is "UCS Plan".  That's the one we're all trying to lead you to use, in this case.  This command will take us to the Plan View of the  current, active, Workplane (UCS).
This is not accessible in DesignDirector.

Again, I would suggest inserting that Line in some sort of 3D view, so you can actually see what you're snapping to.
And I suggest leaving your User Coordinate System icon visible.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 18, 2015, 04:54:19 AM
#17
Also, the Command for "Plan View by current Workplane" is listed as "by Workplane" in the list of Commands in Customize/Commands.  Not "View by Workplane".

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 18, 2015, 08:21:55 AM
#18
Torfinn, UCS Plan doesn't show View by Workplane on my system.
Tim, Ctl+Shift+W doesn't give View by Workplane either. It gives me UCS Plan, which is not the same.
As mentioned earlier, V16 gave me View by Workplane in the Camera options, but I just can't find it in my super wonderful V21 PP.
Where is it in my system?

Gary, please post the .tcw.

Henry H

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* February 18, 2015, 10:17:43 AM
#19
If you want your version 21 to look & act similar to version 16, load the "tc_1024x768pro_pre" workspace configuration. Go to "Tools / Customize—›Options" page, select the aforementioned workspace (with "pre" at the end) from the "Load From" list, then click on the "Load From" button. This should help, in that all the Menus and Toolbars are set up like they were in previous versions.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


* February 18, 2015, 11:00:09 PM
#20
Thanks to all your help and suggestions I've now got View by Workplane working fine. But the midpoint problem still exists.
The bottom blue line was drawn using Workplane by Facet, the top one used Workplane by 3 Points followed by View by Workplane, both used the M SEKE.
WBF was "on" for both. All the edges of the facet remained red when drawing the "good" line, but the problem edge lost its red hilite when drawing the other one (the other 3 edges remained red.

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


* February 19, 2015, 03:09:39 PM
#21
Thanks to all your help and suggestions I've now got View by Workplane working fine. But the midpoint problem still exists.
The bottom blue line was drawn using Workplane by Facet, the top one used Workplane by 3 Points followed by View by Workplane, both used the M SEKE.
WBF was "on" for both. All the edges of the facet remained red when drawing the "good" line, but the problem edge lost its red hilite when drawing the other one (the other 3 edges remained red.

The top blue line results when the WP is on the front plate but you click on the rear plate to start the line.

Henry H

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February 19, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
#22
...

The top blue line results when the WP is on the front plate but you click on the rear plate to start the line.

Henry H

Henry, what do you think of my repeated suggestion to be in some sort of 3D View when inserting the Line-- so one can be certain of what he is actually snapping to.*

Or is that not an advanced way of doing it?

-Alvin
_____________
*("what he is snapping to":  It's one of the reasons I like to have Running Snaps on, with "Show Magnetic Point" on; I like to ascertain for positive what I am snapping to before the snap actually happens.  I'm in the minority amongst experienced TurboCADers on this technique, I know...)

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 19, 2015, 04:20:08 PM
#23
...

The top blue line results when the WP is on the front plate but you click on the rear plate to start the line.

Henry H

Henry, what do you think of my repeated suggestion to be in some sort of 3D View when inserting the Line-- so one can be certain of what he is actually snapping to.*

Or is that not an advanced way of doing it?

-Alvin
_____________
*("what he is snapping to":  It's one of the reasons I like to have Running Snaps on, with "Show Magnetic Point" on; I like to ascertain for positive what I am snapping to before the snap actually happens.  I'm in the minority amongst experienced TurboCADers on this technique, I know...)

I wouldn't do it any other way, Alvin.

Henry H

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* February 20, 2015, 01:29:31 AM
#24

The top blue line results when the WP is on the front plate but you click on the rear plate to start the line.

Henry H
Hi Henry,
That is certainly what happened (see the screenshot) and there is an easy workaround, but what I don't understand is why the 3rd edge (in sequence along the Z-axis of the workplane) was chosen instead of the one on the actual workplane? The chosen edge is directly behind (obscured by) the edge I selected, on a workplane that's not even parallel to the one I selected.

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


February 20, 2015, 05:04:51 AM
#25
"Only Snap to points and entities that are on the current Workplane"

That'd be a good option to be included in Snap Settings.
And it would have to be effective with SEKEs, as well as Running Snaps and Local Snaps.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 22, 2015, 10:21:44 AM
#26
... what I don't understand is why the 3rd edge (in sequence along the Z-axis of the workplane) was chosen instead of the one on the actual workplane? The chosen edge is directly behind (obscured by) the edge I selected, on a workplane that's not even parallel to the one I selected.

I had a hunch... but it was wrong.  So I experimented with another hunch.

Seems that-- if working in a 2D View, which is what you will be in if having executed the "View by Workplane" Command-- the Middle-Point-Snap will Snap to the nearest-middle-point any of the possible object candidates.  The Middle-Point Snap will occur at that middle-point which is nearest the Snap Aperture, of any of the possible entities.

This is true for SEKE-Snaps, as well as Running and Local Snaps.  Also true for whether or not we have "In Aperture Only" checked or not in Snap Settings; though, with this option checked, we still have to have the middle-point in the Snap Aperture for the snap to execute.

This is a good example of why I advocate using Running or Local Snaps sometimes, always with "Show Magnetic Point" option on.

~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)