Modifying the size of multiple objects / blocks

April 24, 2014, 09:25:49 AM

Hi. I wonder if anyone can help. I'm working on a road plan which has come from a local council - and it's a pretty big plan covering an area of about 5 miles! I'm trying to increase the size of the text on each of the roads so that they can be read when the plan is printed out. However the 'text' isn't text - each piece of 'text' is actually an individual block (my blocks palette is obviously huge) so I can't just increase the font size. I think this is a result of the .dwg being produced by the council's GIS mapping system. As there is so much text on the plan, it's going to be almost impossible and impractical to individually click on each bit of 'text' and increase its size (using the X and Y scales). I can however select all the 'text' (luckily it's on a separate layer) but if I then increase the size of the selection (currently doing this by increasing the X & Y scales by an equal amount) it obviously increases each bit of 'text' but it also moves each location by the same proportions. Is there a way selecting multiple objects at the same time and increasing the size of each one without them moving? I really hope there is or I'm in for a really dull few days! Any help greatly appreciated.

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April 24, 2014, 12:28:20 PM

#1

question - are the blocks actual text, or just images of text (like png).

If actual editable text, one way would be to make a copy of the file (important step), in the copy, edit/select by/entity type, choose block insertion which will select all blocks in the drawing, then explode once, which should reveal all the editable text, then edit/select by/entity type choose text and change the font to whatever required.

if a picture of text that could be more awkward, though the experts may have a simple solution, the only way I can think of would be to write a little script to got through all the blocks automatically changing each individual scale - like a batch file.

Andy

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April 24, 2014, 03:18:39 PM

#2

Quote from: lakkabay on April 24, 2014, 09:25:49 AM

...

Your best bet is to upload/Attach the file. As close to the original source as possible (i.e.: however you got it from the Council-- .dwg?)
If it's .dxf, just change the extension to .dwg for uploading/Attaching to be permissible here.

Also let us know what size paper you are wanting to print this whole Â±5 mile² road map on.

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Alvin Gregorio
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April 24, 2014, 08:59:20 PM

#3

I would go with Andy H 's method.

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January 08, 2015, 05:56:27 AM

#4

Gosh I'm slow to respond. Thanks for all your responses. I've been out of the loop a bit (almost a year in fact so apologies for not responding). I tried Andy H's method and alas when the blocks are exploded the "text" turns into lines to make up each letter so it's not editable. For info, each piece of "text" (road / building names etc) seems to be a different block so there are obviously loads of them in the blocks palette. The reason why I'm trying to do this is because of the way I tend to draw my site plans. In this case it's for a running race. What I would normally do is produce an 'Overall' view of the whole course then produce as many Viewports as necessary to highlight sections of the course that are of interest. The smaller Viewports aren't an issue because the "text" blocks are of a size that can easily be read when printing out on A3. The problem comes when I want to produce an Overall view of the whole course because the text blocks will be tiny. If the text is editable, that's easy because I can just copy the text entities and put them on another layer after I've increased their size / font which obviously won't change the position where each bit of text is located.

Alas I'm not technically trained so writing scripts is a bit over my head.

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January 08, 2015, 06:01:42 AM

#5

Quote from: lakkabay on January 08, 2015, 05:56:27 AM

Gosh I'm slow to respond. ...

Quote from: Alvin Gregorio on April 24, 2014, 03:18:39 PM

Your best bet is to upload/Attach the file. As close to the original source as possible (i.e.: however you got it from the Council-- .dwg?)
If it's .dxf, just change the extension to .dwg for uploading/Attaching to be permissible here.

Also let us know what size paper you are wanting to print this whole Â±5 mile² road map on.

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Alvin Gregorio
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January 08, 2015, 06:36:57 AM

#6

Quote from: lakkabay on January 08, 2015, 05:56:27 AM

...I tried Andy H's method and alas when the blocks are exploded the "text" turns into lines to make up each letter so it's not editable.
...

If the individual Blocks are indeed Text, one Explode-- in Modelspace, not while editing the Blocks' contents-- will result in the Text no longer being a Block, rather they would each be their own individual, editable, Text in Modelspace. This is what Andy had suggested. Sounds like you were trying to Explode within the Blocks-- while in Edit [Block] Contents "mode"; or that you Exploded the Blocks more than once (Explode Text Blocks once= Text; Explode Text Blocks twice= Groups of Polylines; Explode Text Blocks thrice= individual Polylines)
((Keep in mind, there is the possibility that by the time you get the council's drawing and open it in TurboCAD-- which of course, more-than-likely the council's draftsperson didn't use to create the drawing-- the Text within the Blocks is already being Exploded, into Groups or Polylines. If that is the case, Andy's suggested method of Exploding the Blocks won't work as cleanly and effectively as we'd hope.))

If the text within the Blocks is indeed Text, Exploding the Blocks in Modelspace (once) sounds like a reasonable compromise. For your purposes, it doesn't seem you really need the Text to be Blocks.

If fellow Forum-members had the file to work with, they could likely provide a resolution quickly and efficiently. (When uploading/attaching the file, let us know what version TurboCAD you are working with).

-Alvin

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 06:59:39 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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January 08, 2015, 07:19:56 AM

#7

Thanks Alvin. Nope, I did that. I just don't think it's real text that can be edited. I have had other fines from similar sources where I have been able to edit and format the text once I've exploded the blocks. I've attached a section of the plan - see what you think.

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January 08, 2015, 08:42:53 AM

#8

Quote from: lakkabay on January 08, 2015, 07:19:56 AM

Thanks Alvin. Nope, I did that. I just don't think it's real text that can be edited. I have had other fines from similar sources where I have been able to edit and format the text once I've exploded the blocks. I've attached a section of the plan - see what you think.

Yeah... it's what I suspected... suggested... in my last Post. Somewhere in the process-- from the original draftpersons' CAD program, to the Council, to the download-site, to you...-- the Text that makes up the Blocks are Polylines... as if the were Exploded twice, in TurboCAD terms.

That makes what you are trying to achieve much more complicated and time-consuming.

I assume that the folks at "the Council" wouldn't be interested in going out of their way to work with you to share the original file, in the original format, or a format that doesn't Explode the Text-Blocks(?)

I do have a workaround, I'd like to try... until others maybe give it a go and suggestions.

-Alvin

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January 08, 2015, 09:02:02 AM

#9

I don't think the council would do that I'm afraid. A friend of mine has also had this issue but he reckons it all depends on what system they use and how it goes about outputting their maps to a .dwg (this can vary obviously). As you say they are unlikely to use TC.
Thanks for trying.

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January 08, 2015, 09:12:56 AM

#10

Quote from: lakkabay on January 08, 2015, 09:02:02 AM

I don't think the council would do that I'm afraid. A friend of mine has also had this issue but he reckons it all depends on what system they use and how it goes about outputting their maps to a .dwg (this can vary obviously). As you say they are unlikely to use TC.
Thanks for trying.

Here's what I'm thinking, as a workaround:

Copy this drawing, so as not to lose it if we screw something up;
Using some known dimensions/measurements, re-size (scale) the whole drawing to match real-world dimensions. Right now, when I open the drawing, it's coming up in inches-- about 500"x500"-- which is not only not correct size-wise, but is not the correct unit-system for London, I assume (Metric system, right?);
Save another Copy of this drawing;
In this copy-drawing, in Options/Drawing Setup.../Space Units change the Units in workspace to something that will result in the Text-Blocks being much larger (un-checking "Convert units after alteration" option);
Copy all the Text-Blocks from the copy-drawing into the original drawing, overriding the Blocks when prompted.

Might work(?)

-Alvin

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January 08, 2015, 09:43:11 AM

#11

I think I scaled (re-sized) this correctly. Please check it out (the attached TurboCAD file).

Using Google Earth, some common-sense, and some thinking...

~~I scaled (re-sized) the whole drawing by a factor of 39.3701 (inches-to-meters conversion).~~ [EDIT: not necessary; omit]
I then changed the Drawing's Space Units to Meters, un-checking "Convert units after alteration".
Relocated the whole thing so that the bottom-left corner was pretty close to X=0,Y=0 coordinates

It is now about 500meters-by-500meters. That seems right when I cross-check it with some measurements in Google Earth.

Seem the right size-- in comparison to the real-world? If you measure-- using the Measurement Tool or a Dimension Tool-- are some of the known landmarks-- such as streets, canals, building-lots, etc.-- measuring pretty close to correctly?

If yes, then we can proceed with trying to get the "text" larger.

By the way-- what version-number TurboCAD are you using? (I didn't know, so-- though I am using version-19-- I saved this file as a version-17, so that it can be opened/read in versions-17 and more recent).

-Alvin

Note: It's not necessary to first get the Drawing to match real-world size/dimensions. But I thought it would be a good starting point if we're going to mess with the size of the "texts".

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 11:16:26 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
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January 08, 2015, 09:47:14 AM

#12

Hi Alvin.
The dwgs always seem to arrive to us in imperial (inches) - all we normally have to do is change the units to metric / metres (making sure 'Convert units after alteration' is unchecked) as we know the overall size is generally 500m x 500m. I'm assuming that's an ok way of doing it? I tried your suggestion - unfortunately the next size up from 'm' is 'km' which is a bit too big! I tried copy / paste onto the plan where the units were set to 'm' but it wasn't successful. Hey ho, perhaps it's just not possible.

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January 08, 2015, 09:49:44 AM

#13

V21 Pro 64 bit by the way

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January 08, 2015, 11:15:08 AM

#14

Quote from: lakkabay on January 08, 2015, 09:47:14 AM

Hi Alvin.
The dwgs always seem to arrive to us in imperial (inches) - all we normally have to do is change the units to metric / metres (making sure 'Convert units after alteration' is unchecked) as we know the overall size is generally 500m x 500m. I'm assuming that's an ok way of doing it? I tried your suggestion - unfortunately the next size up from 'm' is 'km' which is a bit too big! I tried copy / paste onto the plan where the units were set to 'm' but it wasn't successful. Hey ho, perhaps it's just not possible.

Right. It occurred to me while I was out that I didn't need to re-size (scale) the Drawing.
Doing as you said-- just changing the Units in workspace to Meters, with "Convert units after alteration" not checked-- was not only all that is necessary to get the drawing to be the correct scale, but also:
By doing it that way, the contents within the Blocks are also at the correct scale. By first re-sizing the contents of Modelspace, I neglected the contents within the Blocks; future Block Insertions would have to be scaled as well.

Seems like you understood and tried my intended workaround. I had a feeling the issue you reported was going to be the [undesired] result.

-Alvin

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 11:30:48 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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January 08, 2015, 01:08:21 PM

#15

It is possible to change " text" size of the block's in a easy way.
First insert the dwg to TC and scale it to correct size,
make a bid circle someplace to use as a ref point later
Copy all the Blocks by ctrl+t/ Block insertion and the big circle
Select all the copy's + circle and Save As by Selection in the dialog
Open the New drawing and delete the traffic signs etc, the stuff you don't want to change the scale of inside the Block Palette
Select everything else except the circle , rigthclick an og to Property/ Block Insertion, on the bottom set the scale to wat you wan and click OK button, NB not hit enter.
Then all the "text" is scaled like you want, save and Close
go back to the original drawing and insert or extract the " blockfile ", remember to "ignore " Block when inserting and you have a drawing with scaled "text", compered to the rest of the drawing

In Attached i scale the "text" from factor 1 to factor 2

Torfinn

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January 08, 2015, 01:39:17 PM

#16

Quote from: Torfinn on January 08, 2015, 01:08:21 PM

It is possible to change " text" size of the block's in a easy way.
First insert the dwg to TC and scale it to correct size,
make a bid circle someplace to use as a ref point later
Copy all the Blocks by ctrl+t/ Block insertion and the big circle
Select all the copy's + circle and Save As by Selection in the dialog
Open the New drawing and delete the traffic signs etc, the stuff you don't want to change the scale of inside the Block Palette
Select everything else except the circle , rigthclick an og to Property/ Block Insertion, on the bottom set the scale to wat you wan and click OK button, NB not hit enter.
Then all the "text" is scaled like you want, save and Close
go back to the original drawing and insert or extract the " blockfile ", remember to "ignore " Block when inserting and you have a drawing with scaled "text", compered to the rest of the drawing

In Attached i scale the "text" from factor 1 to factor 2

Torfinn

Fantastic Torfinn.

I do not typically use-- and therefore have forgotten about-- the ability to scale Block Insertions via that Properties page.

Although, for what lakkabay seems to be after, it seems he could just Edit/Select By/Layer [TEXT_ROAD_NAME] (or, in the Layers Palette, right-click on that Layer name and click "Select By"), then go to the Blocks' Properties/Block Insertion page. Save a few steps...
That, in conjunction with changing the Pen Width (thicker) of the Layer "TEXT_ROAD_NAME", should serve lakkabay well.

-Alvin

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 02:53:54 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
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January 08, 2015, 03:14:48 PM

#17

With Torfinn's astute advice, I've been having a go at lakkabay's drawing.

I drew a square 5miles-by-5miles (what lakkabay stated the overall is), and centered it over the 500meter-by-500meter section that lakkabay provided.
In Paperspace, with the sheet-size being A3, I inserted a Viewport, and set the scale to 1mm=30m, which is the closest round-number that gets the whole 5 miles to fit on the sheet.

The problem I see is: Even if you can (and you can, using Torfinn's instruction) enlarge the size of the texts-Blocks, I don't see how you are going to get the overall view to be legible. For the text to be large enough to be legible, but not run into each other, and the streets, etc. to be legible... well... it's not.

Unless lakkabay is intending on using a much larger sheet-size for the overall view, with a larger Viewport scale (?)

In the attached .pdf, I scaled the Road Names x10, using Torfinn's instruction (man, that was useful instruction).

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 03:20:56 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
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January 08, 2015, 04:58:09 PM

#18

Hi Alvin

I believe there is a mix of system here.

If i'm not wrong this guy was from Europe, England ??
I use the metric system and by that everything is based on 1 000.

If i order a dxf or dwg from the government i will normally get it in 1:1000, so i scale it up 1 000 to get 1:1 for use in my drawings
If i insert his dwg in to my normal setup and don't convert units i get a drawing that is 500 x 500 mm and that will be perfect for the 1 000, 500 x 1 000 = 500 000 mm = 500 meter.
Also, a US mile is about 1 800 meter's, or something like that
a European mile ( Mil in Norwegian ) is 10 000 meter

And for a big drawing like this, i would use like 1 : 2 000 to make it fit inside a A 3 paper

Hopefully this explain why you could use 1 : 3 000 ( 1 mm = 3 m ), = 1 mm : 3 000 mm) and make it fit on a A3 paper

I think i can put 4 of 1 mm = 3 m scaled drawing inside a A 3 paper

Torfinn

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January 09, 2015, 08:16:28 AM

#19

Quote from: Torfinn on January 08, 2015, 04:58:09 PM

Hi Alvin

I believe there is a mix of system here.

If i'm not wrong this guy was from Europe, England ??
I use the metric system and by that everything is based on 1 000.

If i order a dxf or dwg from the government i will normally get it in 1:1000, so i scale it up 1 000 to get 1:1 for use in my drawings
If i insert his dwg in to my normal setup and don't convert units i get a drawing that is 500 x 500 mm and that will be perfect for the 1 000, 500 x 1 000 = 500 000 mm = 500 meter.
Also, a US mile is about 1 800 meter's, or something like that
a European mile ( Mil in Norwegian ) is 10 000 meter

And for a big drawing like this, i would use like 1 : 2 000 to make it fit inside a A 3 paper

Hopefully this explain why you could use 1 : 3 000 ( 1 mm = 3 m ), = 1 mm : 3 000 mm) and make it fit on a A3 paper
I think i can put 4 of 1 mm = 3 m scaled drawing inside a A 3 paper

Torfinn

Hi Torfinn. I had to do a little reading on Mile (Mil) on Wikipedia.

As an indication of how little I've lived and how little I've been educated in my 51-years, I assumed that what I-- as a born-&-bred U.S. American-- deemed to be a mile was universally, internationally, accepted everywhere. Not true at all.

So, as with many things, when discussing something regarding miles-- internationally, it is good practice to define what or which Mil we are referring to.

The more I learn the more I learn how little I actually know...

____
Thank you much for reminding us of that Blocks'/Properties/Block-Insertion page Torfinn. The only thing I have been in the habit of using it for is defining the Block to be used for the Block Insertion.
I'm fairly confident-- with using your instruction (and maybe a larger sheet for the overall view-- is it 5-Miles or 5-Mils?)-- lakkabay has what she/he needs to accomplish her/his objective.

-Alvin

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January 09, 2015, 09:42:47 AM

#20

Hi Alvin

It sort of stand in post 7
"""""""""""""""""""""
Hi Alvin.
The dwgs always seem to arrive to us in imperial (inches) - all we normally have to do is change the units to metric / metres (making sure 'Convert units after alteration' is unchecked) as we know the overall size is generally 500m x 500m. I'm assuming that's an ok way of doing it? I tried your suggestion - unfortunately the next size up from 'm' is 'km' which is a bit too big! I tried copy / paste onto the plan where the units were set to 'm' but it wasn't successful. Hey ho, perhaps it's just not possible.

""""""""""""""""""
Lakkabay say that they change it to metric / metres and that the next one up from m is km, they also know that the overall size is 500m where m= meter/ metres, all this is for the metric system, and i think the m is the confusing stuff here, as i would Guess that you read it as m for mile, and then American mile, not Europeen mile.

I start to Wonder when i se that you just about get a 1: 30m in to a A3 and i know i had been used 1: 2 000

Torfinn

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January 09, 2015, 10:41:11 AM

#21

Quote from: Torfinn on January 09, 2015, 09:42:47 AM

Hi Alvin

It sort of stand in post 7
"""""""""""""""""""""
Hi Alvin.
The dwgs always seem to arrive to us in imperial (inches) - all we normally have to do is change the units to metric / metres (making sure 'Convert units after alteration' is unchecked) as we know the overall size is generally 500m x 500m. I'm assuming that's an ok way of doing it? I tried your suggestion - unfortunately the next size up from 'm' is 'km' which is a bit too big! I tried copy / paste onto the plan where the units were set to 'm' but it wasn't successful. Hey ho, perhaps it's just not possible.

""""""""""""""""""
Lakkabay say that they change it to metric / metres and that the next one up from m is km, they also know that the overall size is 500m where m= meter/ metres, all this is for the metric system, and i think the m is the confusing stuff here, as i would Guess that you read it as m for mile, and then American mile, not Europeen mile.

I start to Wonder when i se that you just about get a 1: 30m in to a A3 and i know i had been used 1: 2 000

Torfinn

RE: "and i think the m is the confusing stuff here, as i would Guess that you read it as m for mile"
>No, I read "m" as meaning metre (metre), not mile (not Mil).

RE: "they also know that the overall size is 500m where m= meter/ metres"
>lakkabay stated in the first Post "...it's a pretty big plan covering an area of about 5 miles". European mils (10 000m) or statute miles (5280-feet)... I don't know which lakkabay was using as the definition of "mile". I assumed 5280-feet (then we could get into "what is the definition of a foot"). The 500mX500m drawing-file lakkabay provided us is only a section of the overall (from lakkabay's Reply#8: "I've attached a section of the plan...")
>lakkabay also stated, in a subsequent post, "... printing out on A3. The problem comes when I want to produce an Overall view of the whole course ..."

>Either way, at 5x(10 000m) or 5x(5280feet), I don't see how lakkabay is going to get it all (5mils or 5miles) on an A3 sheet and still have the text and roadways be legible.

Anyway...
~Alvin

« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 12:14:05 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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January 09, 2015, 01:37:26 PM

#22

I donâ€™t see what the problem is. Perhaps try printing at high-er resolution. I printed a Ansi B pdf @1200 dpi it looks fine and the text is visible.
I wouldn't scale anything, it's a beautiful drawing > it is what it is.

It doesn't matter what the units are. They are whatever you want them to be as long as the objects maintain their proportion.

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January 09, 2015, 02:37:31 PM

#23

Hi Guys,

Attached for your use is a pdf covering most of the common units conversions between Imperial and SI systems. One word of caution the Gallon referred to is the Imperial Gallon and not the US Gallon which is some 0.8333 the volume of an Imperial Gallon

HTH

Best Regards
Bob

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January 09, 2015, 03:18:59 PM

#24

Quote from: Dean on January 09, 2015, 01:37:26 PM

I donâ€™t see what the problem is. Perhaps try printing at high-er resolution. I printed a Ansi B pdf @1200 dpi it looks fine and the text is visible.
I wouldn't scale anything, it's a beautiful drawing > it is what it is.
It doesn't matter what the units are. They are whatever you want them to be as long as the objects maintain their proportion.

Hi Dean

No, "the drawing is not what it is"

If i should deliver a set of drawing's to the government, the plan of a house i.e. should be in 1:50 or 1:100, finish, if i dont remember to turn of print margins the drawing is maybe only 95% correct scale, then i get the drawing and application in return and a remark in "the book" that i dont provide correct drawing's

Have no idea why TS want the text scaled, but maybe becouse of that they can place it in a A3 but want the text to be more easy to reed on a paperprint

Torfinn

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January 09, 2015, 03:26:53 PM

#25

Hii Torfinn,

No > "it is what it is"

= it's an expression. Of course the scale is important. I'm not concerned with the scale, the scale is what it is

The units are not important. They're only for description which is why many times I prefer unit-less, it saves a lot of time.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:29:04 PM by Dean »

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Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (NO Redsdk Plugin installed), Anilab lab 5. HP all in one 23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,

January 09, 2015, 03:47:22 PM

#26

Hi Dean

I know it's an expression, but my drawing's is what my customer/ government want, not what i think look nice

And by that the scale/ units become important, mm or km, i dont care " same same, but different"

Torfinn

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January 09, 2015, 04:00:20 PM

#27

Where's lakkabay?.... Anybody seen lakkabay?

Probably busily creating his/her road-race course plans-- continuing on, thanks to the great instruction from Torfinn.

♩♪♫♬ ♩♪♫♬...Where or where has our lakkabay gone?...♩♪♫♬ ♩♪♫♬

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 13, 2015, 12:49:09 AM

#28

Sorry, have been away on-site - back again now and have just seen all the responses. Blimey, there are some clever people here. I'll have another go at it and see what happens. Re printing it out and fitting it all in on A3 paper, that's not that hard. If I'm showing the entire course - let's say 5 miles wide - or 8km (sorry we tend to mix our imperial and metric over here) I'll produce an 'Overall' view but my viewport will be scaled accordingly. Obviously you can't see the original text in the drawing or much of the detail but on a view like this the purpose is to just show the route and key road names. I would select all the relevant text and copy it to a new layer. I would then increase the text size and simply give the layer a name like Text Large. If I was showing a running route with arrows I might create 2 sets of arrows but make one set much bigger and name it 'Arrows large'. I'd then create a new layer set so that only the large layers are shown and apply the layer set to the viewport. This then gives me the Overall view I want. For more detailed views, I then create smaller viewports and create additional layer sets to show the smaller text / more detailed elements of the plan. I can print out to A1 on my printer so that also gives me more flexibility re the output size. I know it means I'm duplicating things on the plans but that's the only way I can find of showing what I need to show - hence the reason why I needed to find a way of increasing the size of the text that wasn't actually text!

Thanks so much for all your advice.

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January 19, 2015, 04:20:21 AM

#29

Thanks Torfinn and Alvin. I followed your instructions using scaling on 'Block Insertion' - all sorted now, brilliant!

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January 19, 2015, 06:03:50 AM

#30

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 04:20:21 AM

Thanks Torfinn and Alvin. I followed your instructions using scaling on 'Block Insertion' - all sorted now, brilliant!

Cool. Yeah, Torfinn offered a great instruction.
Now that we know... , it's like... "of course! -- Doh!"

.

Any chance your "client" would be okay with you posting here some .pdf examples of your final result-- something from the running road race pamphlet?
Just curious where you were heading with all this.

~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 07:52:22 AM

#31

Hi Alvin. Quite right, it seems so obvious now!

I have to be a bit careful when posting pdfs - there are quite a few different runs that I work on and clients aren't too happy if their plans get made public. The plans I do are essentially working documents for internal use only - basically they show how the company is going to run and manage the event so they can be a bit sensitive. I don't get involved with the production of the sort of route maps you get in the promotional material you would receive if you were a runner. However if I can find something more generic then I'll try and post that.

I must say I was feeling rather alone with these technical problems which can be a bit stressful! It's great to be able to seek solutions via the forum.

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January 19, 2015, 08:36:01 AM

#32

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 07:52:22 AM

Hi Alvin. Quite right, it seems so obvious now!

I have to be a bit careful when posting pdfs - there are quite a few different runs that I work on and clients aren't too happy if their plans get made public. The plans I do are essentially working documents for internal use only - basically they show how the company is going to run and manage the event so they can be a bit sensitive. I don't get involved with the production of the sort of route maps you get in the promotional material you would receive if you were a runner. However if I can find something more generic then I'll try and post that.

I must say I was feeling rather alone with these technical problems which can be a bit stressful! It's great to be able to seek solutions via the forum.

Sounds like a cool way to make some income-- your part in the whole event(s). ...assuming that you are part of the running world and into this sort of thing.

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 09:05:27 AM

#33

It's not bad but it can also drive you nuts when TC doesn't do what you want it to do! A new problem has just cropped up! I've now managed to increase the size of the blocks (text) and in order to be able to show all the different views I want to I have to create Layer Sets. I have the road plan Xreffed into my drawing but when I try and create a layer set which involves turning off certain layers in the Xreffed drawing, it's not working and the layers are still showing up! Any thoughts?

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January 19, 2015, 09:18:25 AM

#34

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 09:05:27 AM

It's not bad but it can also drive you nuts when TC doesn't do what you want it to do! A new problem has just cropped up! I've now managed to increase the size of the blocks (text) and in order to be able to show all the different views I want to I have to create Layer Sets. I have the road plan Xreffed into my drawing but when I try and create a layer set which involves turning off certain layers in the Xreffed drawing, it's not working and the layers are still showing up! Any thoughts?

Maybe try using Layers Filters, in addition to or instead of Layer Sets?

I think that your starting with large/complex .dwgs or dxfs is causing some of your issues. I see and have seen many seemingly odd and frustrating issues on these Forums caused when and by TurboCADers starting with a .dwg or .dxf file, including "Importing" those files or External Referencing those files.
Issues like drawing-scale being way off; or a ton of space dust way out in space, millions of space-units away from World coordinates 0,0,0; the "main" part of the model being millions of space-units away from World coordinates 0,0,0; etc.
I realize we have to start with the drawing-file type that is available to us; but we have to realize that it's not a perfect system/procedure.
(Just sort of going on the defence of TurboCAD, there... earning some points with the big-boys at the top... management)

Please post back lakkabay if Layers Filters doesn't work for you, or if you need some help getting started with those. Torfinn, Dean, and others are more experienced, proficient, and knowledgeable with using Layers Filters-- and External References-- than I am.

~Alvin

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 09:45:38 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 09:29:57 AM

#35

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 09:05:27 AM

...
I want to I have to create Layer Sets. I have the road plan Xreffed into my drawing but when I try and create a layer set which involves turning off certain layers in the Xreffed drawing, it's not working and the layers are still showing up! Any thoughts?

Maybe try saving your .dwg or .dxf XRef file as a .tcw first, then XRef it in.
Like I say, working with .dwgs or .dxfs isn't a 100% clean and fully-effective-without-nuances process.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 09:45:26 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 09:44:25 AM

#36

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 09:05:27 AM

It's not bad but it can also drive you nuts when TC doesn't do what you want it to do! A new problem has just cropped up! I've now managed to increase the size of the blocks (text) and in order to be able to show all the different views I want to I have to create Layer Sets. I have the road plan Xreffed into my drawing but when I try and create a layer set which involves turning off certain layers in the Xreffed drawing, it's not working and the layers are still showing up! Any thoughts?

I got Layer Sets to work in a New Drawing, with a few Layers in it, using your "Single Tile.dwg" file as an XRef.

Layer Set has the 4 Layers internal to this Drawing, as well as a few Layers from the External Reference .dwg.

So... it should work...

Below is a screen-capture showing that it works. I didn't bother paying any attention to which of the XRef's Layers were visible in the Layer Set; I just clicked on a few (despite the name I gave the Layer Set). Apologies for it being so large; I wanted to show everything clearly. ~Alvin

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 09:47:38 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 09:58:16 AM

#37

Before I Xreffed the other drawing into mine, I saved it as a .twc so I'm only using TC files rather than mixing it with a .dwg. I'm not much of an expert on Layer Filters I'm afraid. I can see the other Xreffed drawing and all it's layers under the Layer Filter (see attached) and I can turn off the layers as needed. However because I need to show the same section of my drawing but with different layer sets applied to the same area, I can't get the Xreffed drawing layers to behave and turn on / off when I apply the required layer set! Basically I don't think I understand the relationship between layer Sets and Layer Filters. For example, on the attached view, I don't want to see the very small road text but I want to see everything else. The very small text (along with the road and building outlines) is within the Xreffed drawing. All the other text / circles / arrows etc is part of my drawing. So I've created a Layer Set called 'Large' but I want the small road text not to show up within this particular Layer Set. Yes I could turn off the offending layer each time but you can see the number of different Paper Spaces I have and there are a number of different Layer Sets I would like to show on them so that wouldn't be practical.

The other way I could do it is by copying the relevant text in the Xreffed drawing and pasting it into my drawing - saving it as another layer with the name, say 'Road Text Small'. However the issue with this drawing is that as mentioned at the beginning of this thread, each bit of text is actually a Block rather than editable text. So as soon as I copy it, it'll add about another 1000 blocks to my file (there are a lot of roads in this drawing)!

I hope I've explained that correctly - it's not so easy to illustrate exactly what one is trying to do!

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January 19, 2015, 10:05:25 AM

#38

Hi Alvin. That's exactly what I'm aiming to do but for whatever reason the layers of the Xreffed drawing don't want to turn on or turn off as they should do when they are saved as different layer sets. No idea why. I normally have about 15-20 different layer sets in each of my drawings and around 20-50 paper spaces so you can see why it would be a bit dull to do it manually each time!

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January 19, 2015, 10:23:58 AM

#39

I'm old school TurboCAD, and not classically trained; have never used AutoCAD. So I learned to use Layer Sets-- seemingly a TurboCAD thing. When I made the jump from version-11 TurboCAD, which does not have ~~Layer Sets~~ Layers Filters, to version-19, which does, I thought "what the hell is this nonsense 'Layer Templates' and 'Layers Filters'; I don't need those... just extra stuff IMSI put in there to make the new versions seem more valuable". But I was wrong.

I believe Layer Templates and Layers Filters come from AutoCAD, like Styles and other things. These things aren't only for better use of TurboCAD, they are also for better interacting with-- importing from and exporting to-- AutoCAD and other programs that use these features.

Layer Templates and Layers Filters do have use within TurboCAD. Layers Filters in particular can be very powerful, for a 268+ Layer Drawing with dozens of Views/Paperspaces.

The main advantage Layer Sets have over Layers Filters is: In Paperspace Viewports we can very quickly and easily select which of the +200 Layers we want to be visible in that Viewport, simply by selecting a Layer Set in Viewport Properties->Viewport.
The only way to do that with Layers Filters is to first set a Layers Filter as active, then create the Viewport. The drag of that is: With Layer Sets, revisions to the Layer Set is reflected in the Viewports... it updates; that is not the case when using Layers Filters only.

With a complex Drawing with many dozens of Layers, with eventual many Views and Paperspaces, I advocate using both Layer Sets and Layers Filters and syncing them, which has to be done manually.

~Alvin

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 10:33:19 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 10:29:25 AM

#40

Thanks Alvin, that's exactly why I like using Layer Sets. I'll look into it tomorrow (it's the end of my day here so will now go and pour myself a drink)!

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January 19, 2015, 10:29:57 AM

#41

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 09:58:16 AM

Reply #38

You didn't show your Layer Set Palette in your screen-capture lakkabay.
Can you show your Layer Set Palette, with the Layer Set named "Large" active.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 10:31:38 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 10:34:29 AM

#42

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 10:29:25 AM

Thanks Alvin, that's exactly why I like using Layer Sets. I'll look into it tomorrow (it's the end of my day here so will now go and pour myself a drink)!

Cheers!

You'll get it. If I can do it in my version-19-Deluxe, I'm sure(?) it can be done in version-21. -Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 10:37:58 AM

#43

By the way lakkabay: There are three or four ways of accessing the Layer Sets Palette (window), each being a little different than the other in appearance and behavior.

What method are you using to access your Layer Sets Palette?

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 11:24:23 AM

#44

For what it's worth:

In the sample test file that I shared a screen-capture of previously-- the TurboCAD file in which I showed I was able to successfully use Layer Sets with XRef Layers: After Saving/Closing/Re-Opening, though I have the Layer Set with the correct Layers indicating Visible being active, All Layers are Visible.
[But oddly, in Viewport Properties, the correct Layers are checked in the "Layer Name" pane, accurately reflecting what is set in "Layer Set"... though all Layers are visible in the actual Viewport ]

I don't know. Like I say, XRefs and Layers Filters aren't really my thing.

-Alvin

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:31:07 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 11:36:33 AM

#45

Will this do? In this particular drawing I have 2 Xreffed files ('Additional CAD from Bob' and 'Consolidated'). As you can see I have some of the layers of 'Consolidated' turned off in the Layer Set palette but on the Layer Filter side I have them turned on. Basically I'd like them on all the time on the Layer Filters and ideally just control them from the Layer Set side so I can then just apply the appropriate Layer Set to the relevant Viewport in my Paper Spaces (but obviously I'm missing a trick somewhere)!

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January 19, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

#46

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 11:36:33 AM

Will this do? In this particular drawing I have 2 Xreffed files ('Additional CAD from Bob' and 'Consolidated'). As you can see I have some of the layers of 'Consolidated' turned off in the Layer Set palette but on the Layer Filter side I have them turned on. Basically I'd like them on all the time on the Layer Filters and ideally just control them from the Layer Set side so I can then just apply the appropriate Layer Set to the relevant Viewport in my Paper Spaces (but obviously I'm missing a trick somewhere)!

[Problem Solved]

That answers my previous question. The Layer Set "Palette" (window) shown in your screen-capture seems that you accessed it via the Layers Palette.

Try this... I am having much more consistent success with this:

Access your Layer Sets "Palette" via Options/Drawing Setup... (but not by clicking on "Layers..." under "Drawing Setup").
In the Menu Bar, click on Options; click on "Drawing Setup..."; then in the window that comes up, click on "Layers" in the left-side pane. (see screen-capture below)
>And when editing or activating the Layer Sets-- I don't know how you do it now, via View or what....-- but go through this same window. When I Saved/Closed/Re-Opened the (successful) Drawing, it seemed not to work. When I went to this Layer Set window and selected & clicked on the appropriate Layer Set at the top, it worked.

This is my least-favorite way of getting to Layer Sets... I don't like the appearance or behavior of this window as compared to the other ways of getting to the Layer Set window. This is how we did it back in version-11 and before. I don't like the dark-grey highlighting; nor that I can't pull/drag the window larger*. But, at least with this window, we can sort by clicking on the column headings. And if it solves your needs... it may be worth the compromise.

~Alvin

____
*To drag/pull windows larger than what they are able to, I use a downloaded freeware program "ReSizeEnable". Works for these stubbornly small windows.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 05:34:35 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

January 19, 2015, 12:38:08 PM

#47

You know what Alvin, I think you've sorted it! I'll look at it in more depth tomorrow but a quick test showed that your method worked. I wonder why it works this way but not the other? Anyway, I'm certainly not complaining as the thought of only being able to manipulate the text (turning it on and off) by copying the text blocks from the Xref file into my drawing filled me with dread (as all the text is in fact blocks there are enough of them already)! Thank you so much.

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January 19, 2015, 01:06:39 PM

#48

Quote from: lakkabay on January 19, 2015, 12:38:08 PM

You know what Alvin, I think you've sorted it! I'll look at it in more depth tomorrow but a quick test showed that your method worked. I wonder why it works this way but not the other? Anyway, I'm certainly not complaining as the thought of only being able to manipulate the text (turning it on and off) by copying the text blocks from the Xref file into my drawing filled me with dread (as all the text is in fact blocks there are enough of them already)! Thank you so much.

RE: "I wonder why it works this way but not the other?"

Computer programming stuff. Which I know nothing about.

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5). No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)

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