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Ghost Lines
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* March 21, 2014, 11:15:39 AM
I have been fairly dormant using TC for a while now, but have a project that has thrown me back into things.  I took an old drawing and deleted everything from it since I knew that it had the right scaling and such.  I then created a 2D drawing.  Everything looks fine on the screen, but when I print it (from the model view since I am printing many different pieces at different times), I get three pale green lines that show up on the print which don't show on the screen.  Nothing I have tried seems to make these go away, including picking up everything in the drawing and moving it.  If I zoom out far enough, I can see two other pale green lines which nearly overlap.  Originally, these were close to the drawing and just outside anything I was printing, but now that I have moved the drawing, they are well outside.  I can't select those lines, even using open window mode.  This is TC Pro 15.

Is it possible to export the drawing in some format and then re-import it?  I seem to remember doing that once years ago, but don't remember what format or procedure I used to do it.  I did have one point doing the drawing where it was crashing a lot trying to put in a Bezier curve.  I switched to spline and the problem went away.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 21, 2014, 12:59:45 PM
#1
Could they be Construction lines? If so, you can get rid of them via Edit>Clear>All Constructions.

Henry H

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* March 21, 2014, 01:42:55 PM
#2
No effect, unfortunately.   The one's that are bothering me because they are in the drawing view are not visible on the screen at any level of zoom.  They only show up when I print.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


March 21, 2014, 02:25:05 PM
#3
No effect, unfortunately.   The one's that are bothering me because they are in the drawing view are not visible on the screen at any level of zoom.  They only show up when I print.

  • In Page Setup do you have "Print Margins" checked?
  • How about "Print Grid"?
  • What do you have checked in that are of the Page Setup window/page?
  • What is your Grid set to? (Grid Spacing; and Divisions [Advanced Grid page])
  • Do you have the Grid turned on in Modelspace?
  • How large is the area you are printing, in relation to the Grid?
  • What color are your Grid Lines set to?
  • ...?
 
.... Please upload/attach the file if you want and need help with this.... we could go on like this all week (or have the "problem" resolved in a matter of minutes).

« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 03:50:59 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 21, 2014, 03:51:59 PM
#4
Pale Green is what they use for Constraints. Do you have a $Constraints layer? Do you have anything checked in the "Printing" section of "Options / Constraints"?

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2020
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* March 22, 2014, 07:56:53 AM
#5
Noe of the printing options are checked.  I should probably have said that the lines in question meet at a point roughly top center and go down toward the sides at roughly a 45 degree angle with two slightly diverging lines on one side and one on the other.

Yes, I have the grid on in model space, but these lines are at approximately a 45 degree angle to the grid.  The minor grid divisions are 1' and the overall garden is 110' on a side.  The grid lines are sort of purplish as opposed to the ghost which is green.

There is no $constraints layer and nothing checked in the printing section of options/constraints.  I don't believe I have ever used constraints.

Drawing attached ... but remember that it is TC Pro 15.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 08:35:06 AM
#6
Noe of the printing options are checked.  I should probably have said that the lines in question meet at a point roughly top center and go down toward the sides at roughly a 45 degree angle with two slightly diverging lines on one side and one on the other.

Yes, I have the grid on in model space, but these lines are at approximately a 45 degree angle to the grid.  The minor grid divisions are 1' and the overall garden is 110' on a side.  The grid lines are sort of purplish as opposed to the ghost which is green.

There is no $constraints layer and nothing checked in the printing section of options/constraints.  I don't believe I have ever used constraints.

Drawing attached ... but remember that it is TC Pro 15.

Hi Thomas, I've experienced these ghost lines when "printing"and still do in V21, especially when there are hatches.
what I do is "save as" a PDF with "zoom to extents" and "active" set in the pdf dialog.
> go to file> save as > choose pdf
 This works for me. 100% of the time . hope it works for you

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (no Redsdk plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


* March 22, 2014, 08:49:11 AM
#7
Doesn't work for me.  With Zoom to Extents not checked, I get a little tiny image.  With it checked, I get the whole garden, not the quadrant currently in my view.

Still wondering about this possibility of export/import ...

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 10:02:55 AM
#8
Doesn't work for me.  With Zoom to Extents not checked, I get a little tiny image.  With it checked, I get the whole garden, not the quadrant currently in my view.

Still wondering about this possibility of export/import ...

works for me.. with your file in V15.
 If you want to "save as"a specific view > create a viewport. Then do what I described above but from paper space. Do you know how to create viewports and adjust them?

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (no Redsdk plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


* March 22, 2014, 10:45:41 AM
#9
I've never done viewports.  Just printing from what is in view in the model space.  In this drawing, for example, I am creating two different views of the whole garden, one of each quadrant inside the fence, and two of each border garden, so 14 different ones in all and sometimes more, e.g., overlaying the drawing on the image.

So, for example, to print the garden in the upper right inside the fence, I will zoom window so that the fence defines the top and right side and the left and bottom include the walk as far as the letters.  I f I use your method with zoom to extents checked, I get a PDF of the whole garden.  If I uncheck that, I get the right selection, but tiny, like 2-3" on a side.

Each of these areas has a different manager, so we are trying to give each a drawing of their area.  The border gardens take two because they are long and skinny and my cohort assembles them into one over and under.


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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 11:05:09 AM
#10
So, I defined a view for the Tropical Garden, the one in the upper right.  Then I created a new paper space and inserted a viewport and picked the Tropical Garden view.  This got me a piece of virtual paper with the Tropical Garden on it, but with more showing at the right and left than the area I had outlined in my view.  If I print this, I still get the ghost lines, although they don't show on the screen. 

If I do the Save As from that Paper Space view, I get what seems to be two, slightly offset versions of just the Tropical Garden ... no lines, but a useless mess like bad astigmatism.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


March 22, 2014, 11:32:12 AM
#11
So, I defined a view for the Tropical Garden, the one in the upper right.  Then I created a new paper space and inserted a viewport and picked the Tropical Garden view.  This got me a piece of virtual paper with the Tropical Garden on it, but with more showing at the right and left than the area I had outlined in my view.  If I print this, I still get the ghost lines, although they don't show on the screen. 

If I do the Save As from that Paper Space view, I get what seems to be two, slightly offset versions of just the Tropical Garden ... no lines, but a useless mess like bad astigmatism.

I (almost*) duplicated your procedure you just detailed (quote above), regarding the Viewport and Paperspace.
I then Printed to my third-party PDF-writing program (PdfFactory-Pro) and viewed in Adobe Reader.

I see no "ghost lines" (not to be confused with "spider lines", which happens often in drawings with Hatches, and no one knows how to eliminate).
____
You say you are printing.  To what are you printing?  An actual little low-end printer sitting on your desk?  At FedExOffice or similar?  To a PDF-writing program?
____
*Regarding the Viewport in Paperspace, and "more showing at the right and left than the area I had outlined in my view":
  • Go into the Viewport's Properties/Viewport, and under "Scale", check "Fixed".
  • Then play around with the Scale value until everything you want fits on the sheet.
  • In conjunction with that, you will have to pull in the corners and sides of your Viewport and reposition... a lot of back-and-forth and trying... including adjusting the Scale value, until you get all the View you want and laid out on the sheet to fit optimally.  A Fixed Viewport Scale value of about 1:192 ought to do you (screen-capture below)

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 22, 2014, 11:51:10 AM
#12
When printing to paper, it is to a Xerox Phaser 8860.  When printing to PDF it is with real Acrobat, although not the latest version.

The view I am trying to print is not the whole garden, as in your sample and does not have the image layer in view. Image, Dimensions, Labels, Grid_Orig, and Park are deselected.  I have attached a PDF which shows the problem and the view. 

Per your suggestion, if I click fixed, I can then pull in the sides to get just what I want in the view.  I have done that for the attached.  This may be a real plus in the future since I should be able to create one viewport for each half of the border gardens and put them on one sheet.  But, I would need to be able to rotate the west and east ones 90 degrees.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 11:55:35 AM
#13
So, I defined a view for the Tropical Garden, the one in the upper right.  Then I created a new paper space and inserted a viewport and picked the Tropical Garden view.  This got me a piece of virtual paper with the Tropical Garden on it, but with more showing at the right and left than the area I had outlined in my view.  If I print this, I still get the ghost lines, although they don't show on the screen. 

If I do the Save As from that Paper Space view, I get what seems to be two, slightly offset versions of just the Tropical Garden ... no lines, but a useless mess like bad astigmatism.

Thomas,
I created a viewport for you which displays a quadrant. The file should open in paperspace then go to >file > save as PDF >choose “zoom to extents” and “active”. To modify the viewport >select the viewport then go to > workspace> modelspace (floating). This will give you permission to pan and zoom the view. Make sure you hold shift+Ctrl +mouse wheel when panning and Ctrl + mouse wheel when zooming. This prevent you from skewing the drawing. If you skew the drawing then hit Ctrl+w and start over.
edit > Ctrl+mousewheel to zoom
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 12:52:48 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (no Redsdk plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


* March 22, 2014, 12:22:14 PM
#14
If you take away the color you have on one of the "frames", and the ghoost line's go away when printing

Torfinn

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March 22, 2014, 12:24:39 PM
#15
When printing to paper, it is to a Xerox Phaser 8860.  When printing to PDF it is with real Acrobat, although not the latest version.

The view I am trying to print is not the whole garden, as in your sample and does not have the image layer in view. Image, Dimensions, Labels, Grid_Orig, and Park are deselected.  I have attached a PDF which shows the problem and the view. 

Per your suggestion, if I click fixed, I can then pull in the sides to get just what I want in the view.  I have done that for the attached.  This may be a real plus in the future since I should be able to create one viewport for each half of the border gardens and put them on one sheet.  But, I would need to be able to rotate the west and east ones 90 degrees.

Thanks for Posting the PDF tamhas.  When I open it, I don't see any "ghost lines" (and, the second page is blank; don't know if that's intentional or inadvertent).

We're getting closer.  Can you use your Adobe Reader to "mark up" the PDF, annotating what you are referring to as "ghost lines".

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 22, 2014, 12:31:13 PM
#16
Well, when I opened the download, it complained that the file was corrupt, but I opened it anyway and it did seem to work as you suggested.  I then went back to mine and tried the procedure with a new paper space I had created with the west border garden in two viewports side by side on a portrait view.  Printing that to PDF seemed to give me scale problems and using the Save As approached worked, although it ended up on landscape and thus not as full sized as I would like.

I decided there must be something corrupt about my Tropical paper space, so I deleted it and recreated it with all my new found knowledge(!) and with that the Save As approach works as advertised.

"Frames"  what frames?

I then tried creating a landscape layout to do the West Border Garden in two pieces, over and under.  But, I can't seem to figure out how to rotate them.

I have arrows in the attached PDF pointing to the lines.  They are fairly faint, but unfortunately get emphasized by the process of copying them into FrameMaker.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 12:39:18 PM
#17
Tamhas was talking about this lines ( i believe )


And the "Frames" i have marked on a png, maybe the color is not correct because i have to put it back again to show

Torfinn

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* March 22, 2014, 12:47:59 PM
#18
I saw from your attachment ... which I hadn't looked at before since there were messages arriving while I was responding ... that "frames" meant the rectangles which I had created and cut to make the fence.  Changing the background color on the fence from gray to white does *seem* to make the lines go away on a print or PDF.  I say "seems" because if I print to PDF and then print the PDF, I can detect the white lines going across the red of the pathway, though this is not apparent in the print.   I don't know whether Frame will notice it or not ... that remains to be tested.

I'm not sure how to actually *remove* the background color ... and I am hampered in investigating because TC has crashed again.

I suppose it might be indicated to recreate the fence and delete the current one to see if that fixes the problem.  Seems very curious.  But, now that I look at the old print of the full drawing I can see that all the lines come from the west side of the north gateway.  One goes to the south side of the east gateway and the other two go to each side of the east gateway.  Good catch ... even if I don't understand it!

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 22, 2014, 12:53:34 PM
#19
If you take away the color you have on one of the "frames", and the ghoost line's go away when printing

Torfinn

 :)good catch Torfinn, Now, maybe they can fix that BUG!

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (no Redsdk plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


March 22, 2014, 12:54:41 PM
#20
Looks to me tamhas-- after viewing your "marked up" PDF, pointing out the "ghost lines", that those are in fact "spider lines", which I referred to previously.

With some Hatches, in some Drawings, printed to some PDF-writers (or to some Printers), those "spider lines" appear.
It seems to be a "known issue" among graphics-aficionados.

I have found "Pick Point Hatch" to heighten the likelihood that "spider lines" will appear when printing.
I would estimate that <1% of Hatches cause "spider lines".

(Note that Dean and Torfinn are actually more expert and knowledgeable with TurboCAD than I am, so I would defer to whatever they say in regards to these "ghost lines" being "spider lines".)  -Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 22, 2014, 01:06:39 PM
#21
So, rather than try to recreate the fence, I should just choose a different pattern to fill it, and or get rid of the background color?  I see now how to get rid of the background color and I could change the scale to make it show up a bit more instead of using the background.

Yeah, that works fine ... I changed the pattern, scale, and removed the background color and no lines.

Now, if I can just figure out how the do the viewports for the east and west borders, I should be in good shape!

What a great crowd!

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 23, 2014, 03:17:54 AM
#22
If you take away the color you have on one of the "frames", and the ghoost line's go away when printing

Torfinn

 :)good catch Torfinn, Now, maybe they can fix that BUG!

I'm not sure this is a Bug, this can also be a user fault, tested some more last nigth as i noticed that when selecting the "frame" it all get marked up, so made a multiline with a brush pattern  and background color, traced over only the 4 corners and deleted the old one, when printing to PDF there was no ghost lines any more.
Also made a big "frame", put some bigger rectangles crossing over and trim, still no ghost line

Torfinn

Edit:
Forgot to mention that i also take away the the brush and color from the multiline and added new Brush/ color by pick point hatch, the north west corner was not possible so there by path, no problem when printing
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 03:32:10 AM by Torfinn »

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* March 23, 2014, 07:13:45 AM
#23
FWIW, I created the "fence" in the first place by drawing two rectangles, one for the outside and one for the inside, and subtracting the inner one from the outer.  Then I cut it at the path boundaries and colored it with a hatch of //// and some grey to give it more substance.  My current version uses no background, a more crisscross hatch, and rescaling to give the substance.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15


* March 23, 2014, 08:41:38 AM
#24
Thanks Tamhas

Then i tested a litle bit more, and it's when the 4 corner become a region this ghost line show's up, now i can reproduce whenever i want it.
Can it be that you make a region of it or maybe this is how TC was in V15, after cutting the basic region ( red on attached) ??
After trim i was left with 4 polyline corners, on the 2 with ghost lines i make them to region after.

Torfinn

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* March 23, 2014, 08:54:24 AM
#25
I'm not sure I understand you completely, but yes I did end up with a region with the approach I used.  As I recall, it was a region after the first subtraction, before I did the cuts for the gateways.  And, even with the cuts, the whole fence is a single object, not four objects.

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Thomas Mercer-Hursh, TC Pro 15