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Computer Upgrade
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* March 31, 2013, 01:42:58 PM
I am considering the purchase of a new computer with windows 7 (64-bit) installed. I assume that TC 17 will run on a 64-bit machine as will Microsoft Office 2010. Can any one tell me if my assumption is correct.
Additionally, would any one like to comment on the spec's of the computer I propose to purchase particularly the video card and rendering capabilities. Any comments would be appreciated.
Bob

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March 31, 2013, 01:53:22 PM
#1
Bob

I would consider doubling your memory (for future upgrading to TC 64bit  ;)) and having a SSD for your OS and program locations. The HD is still a major bottleneck in computers and a SSD is a must for me -  fast boot up times and fast program loads.

Have a Hybrid hard drive for your files etc.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:00:52 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* March 31, 2013, 01:55:30 PM
#2
V17 will work fine on a 64 bit system as will MS office 2010, though as v17 is a 32 bit program it won't be able to use nore than between 1.6 to 2GB memory but the system will allow multiple programs to be open in memory at the same time (I do this often).

The spec of the machine looks OK to me, but I'm no expert on spec - I just build whatever I fancy at the time, 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:04:14 PM by Andy H »

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March 31, 2013, 02:30:26 PM
#3
Bob

SSD = Solid-State Drive.

A solid-state drive (SSD) (also known as a solid-state disk or electronic disk, though it contains no actual "disk" of any kind) is a data storage device using integrated circuit assemblies as memory to store data persistently. SSD technology uses electronic interfaces compatible with traditional block input/output (I/O) hard disk drives.
SSDs have no moving mechanical components, which distinguish them from traditional electromechanical magnetic disks such as hard disk drives (HDDs) or floppy disks, which contain spinning disks and movable read/write heads. Compared with electromechanical disks, SSDs are typically less susceptible to physical shock, much quieter, have lower access time, and less latency.
Many SSDs use I/O interfaces developed for hard disk drives, thus permitting simple replacement in common applications.
Most SSDs use NAND-based flash memory, which retains data without power. For applications requiring fast access, but not necessarily data persistence after power loss, SSDs may be constructed from random-access memory (RAM). Such devices may employ separate power sources, such as batteries, to maintain data after power loss.
Hybrid drives or solid state hybrid drives (SSHD) combine the features of SSDs and HDDs in the same unit, containing a large hard disk drive and an SSD cache to improve performance of frequently accessed data. These devices may offer near-SSD performance for many applications.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 03:15:51 PM
#4
That is the trade off Bob.

SSD's are more expensive for sure, but if you are after performance and speed then they cannot really be beaten.

Depends on your needs and budget I guess. I have an old ASUS R2H ultra mobile PC, it was useless with the standard HD it was made with. Putting in a SSD made it useable and I have even got Windows 7 installed on it.

TC runs very good on it also  :) image below is a mock up  ;) you should not CAD and drive a vehicle, it is against the law and the road humps cause havoc when your drawing ;D

Edit: Yes, having a small drive for your OS and programs is a good solution.
 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 03:38:56 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 03:35:43 PM
#5
Let's talk $$$


Not counting (at this time) the monitors or any other periphials, what should one expect to spend on a professional-grade system for doing high-resource usage graphics (such as Darrel Carl Durose, Greg T, Don Cheke, Brad Easterday- and others- do and examples of which they have shared on these Forums), such as TurboCAD Pro (with Rendering), SolidWorks, along with PhotoShop.

----
When I went monitor-purchasing recently, I ended up at the only real/professional computer store in our 360k population city (low economic demographic).  It's a nationally-recognized, award-winning establishment.... the real deal.

When I inquired from the representative that was helping me with my monitor purchase "what would one expect to pay for a professional, fail-resistant, computer-system for high-end, professional CAD work, where reliability is a major factor.
    He took me in back and showed me (case cover off) a system he was building for a local farmer (likely, a wealthy farmer) that the farmer wanted for his hobby of photo and video editing.  The thing had 2 solid-state drives (within which will reside the Operating-System and installed Programs- nothing else), and 2 (?TB) disk hard-drives.  There was this MAJOR processor- it wasn't even released yet to the general-public- that had this HUGE radiator.  A very major graphics-card, as well.  Sales Price:  Get this.... $6,500.
    I told him that it would be a long time before that was within my budget and needs.  He said- to answer my original question- a computer to fit the needs I was describing, they could build for me for about $3,500.

----
What do you expert-users that use TurboCAD and other graphics programs professionally- depend on it to make a living- think?  What should one expect to spend- what would be reasonable- on a professional-grade system for doing high-resource usage graphics , discluding monitors and other periphials?  How about the monitor(s)?

----
-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


March 31, 2013, 03:52:51 PM
#6
Of all the machines I have had over the years My lenovo W701 is the best so far. Still love using it and will be for the foreseeable future.
Rendering:
For Lightworks Rendering the CPU is the most important if you want fast renders.

Soft Shadows during rendering consume your RAM, the more lights, the more Ram Lightworks will consume before the render passes start. I have had it where it has used all my physical RAM and the Virtual Ram kicks in (Hard drive), this is not to much of an issue with SSD's but generally TC/Lightworks crashes on me before it completes the shadow mapping step. Your spinners will not like VR at all  ???

My machine cost about £2,800.00. just added 4GB of Crucial ram so I now have 12GB.

Of course you need to have TC 64bit to make use of this!

 

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 03:59:52 PM
#7
Of all the machines I have had over the years My lenovo W701 is the best so far. Still love using it and will be for the foreseeable future.
Rendering:
For Lightworks Rendering the CPU is the most important if you want fast renders.

Soft Shadows during rendering consume your RAM, the more lights, the more Ram Lightworks will consume before the render passes start. I have had it where it has used all my physical RAM and the Virtual Ram kicks in (Hard drive), this is not to much of an issue with SSD's but generally TC/Lightworks crashes on me before it completes the shadow mapping step. Your spinners will not like VR at all  ???

My machine cost about £2,800.00. just added 4GB of Crucial ram so I now have 12GB.

Of course you need to have TC 64bit to make use of this!

So, if one is to do CAD- including photo-realistic rendering- professonally- and need a reliable system, $800 US (which is what I-  from a layman's point-of-view- am accustomed to thinking a decent computer should cost) likely isn't going to do it, is it.

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


March 31, 2013, 04:11:36 PM
#8
Alvin

Laptops, which my Lenovo W01 is has a few gadgets that add to its cost, it has a built in Wacom Digitizer that actually I hardly ever use and the following:

Security Chip
Fingerprint reader, offers users a convenient solution, authenticate at system startup and log on to Windows with a swipe of your finger.
17.0-inch, WUXGA (1920 × 1200 resolution) color, anti-glare, RGB LED backlight Display.
Colour Sensor (for screen colour calibration) - close the lid and it goes to work adjusting the display every now and again.
Oh, and backlights and webcam!

Did not bother with the go-faster stripes  ;D

Laptops are never going to be as cheap as as a desktop or as capable....your 800 dollars should get you a decent tower Alvin! TC is capable on most machines.

The latest Lenovo W530 is very capable and starts at  $1,257.52! - http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/w-series/w530/

« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:18:41 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 04:23:03 PM
#9
Alvin

Laptops, which my Lenovo W01 is has a few gadgets that add to its cost, it has a built in Wacom Digitizer that actually I hardly ever use and the following:

Security Chip
Fingerprint reader, offers users a convenient solution, authenticate at system startup and log on to Windows with a swipe of your finger.
17.0-inch, WUXGA (1920 × 1200 resolution) color, anti-glare, RGB LED backlight Display.
Colour Sensor (for screen colour calibration) - close the lid and it goes to work adjusting the display every now and again.
Oh, and backlights and webcam!

Did not bother with the go-faster stripes  ;D

Laptops are never going to be as cheap as as a desktop or as capable....your 800 dollars should get you a decent tower Alvin! TC is capable on most machines.

The latest Lenovo W530 is very capable and starts at  $1,257.52! - http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/w-series/w530/

Your Lenevo W01 sounds bad-a$% Darrel.

Thanks for the input.  I'm not in the market for a new system, currently.  Just wanted to know what I should be expecting/budgeting for.  It really comes down to:  How much do I plan on using it to make a living, and how much do I anticipate earning, making that living.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


March 31, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
#10
The minimum spec that TurboCAD requests us to have should be up to the job. Anything above this (which most new machines are) will be a bonus.

One thing to mention is if you are going to use Standard rendering with high global illumination sample counts, Advanced Rendering and Anilab then having a second machine would be a good idea.

While one machine is rendering you can be starting your next project on the other. That's what I do now and I know others do this too.  :)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 06:00:45 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
#11
The minimum spec the TurboCAD requests us to have should be up to the job. Anything above this (which most new machines are) will be a bonus.

One thing to mention is if you are going to use Standard rendering with high global illumination sample counts, Advanced Rendering and Anilab then having a second machine would be a good idea.

While one machine is rendering you can be starting your next project on the other. That's what I do now and I know other do this too.  :)

"Second machine"?  Is that $800÷2; or $800x2?  ;D

It'll likely be years before this framing-contractor/general-contractor, turned CAD-operator is going to need-  or be able to justify the expense of-  two systems for rendering and continued production.

Thanks Darrel.  -Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


March 31, 2013, 04:58:01 PM
#12
It could be your current machine you use when your better 800 dollar tower is busy.  :)

I use my old Toshiba M400 Tablet dual core laptop when lenovo is busy.

I get the majority of the designing done on the Toshiba then finish off on the Lenovo adding, updating the materials, other details and then rendering....then the whole cycle begins again  :P

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


March 31, 2013, 07:28:30 PM
#13
You can do what I did for less than $900.

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mike
TC user since v3. MacMini 5.1. 2.3 GHz. 16 Gig RAM.
TC 19 Pro 64 bit. Windows 7.


April 01, 2013, 01:20:22 AM
#14
Let's talk $$$


What do you expert-users that use TurboCAD and other graphics programs professionally- depend on it to make a living- think?  What should one expect to spend- what would be reasonable- on a professional-grade system for doing high-resource usage graphics , discluding monitors and other periphials?  How about the monitor(s)?

----
-Alvin

Alvin,

you can spend all you've got, and then some, if you have more $$$ than sense!  But, you can do a decent professional job with less than you would think.  If you are genuinely in business, then capital expenses, TC and the machine/s to run it on, should be tax deductible.  So, you have some advantage over us retired engineers and hobbyists, to indulge in something nearer your requirements, without breaking the bank, perhaps.

Running two machines (i.e. not throwing the old one away), as Darrel suggested above, makes a lot of sense.

Just some thoughts.  :)

Regards Tim

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Regards Tim

You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro (1909) 64-bit


* April 01, 2013, 05:03:06 PM
#15
Hey,

Just a quick question.  Could a person build a system from scratch to do what you are describing to do with two machines?  I only know enough about computers to be dangerous. :)  Just wondering as I may also be looking to build a system in the future also (actually, will let someone who know what they are doing, build it). 

Dan

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Deluxe 16.2
Pro Platinum 18.2
Running on HP HDX laptop w/win7 Home Intel Duo Core, 2.53GHz 4GB RAM, 64Bit OS


April 01, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
#16
Building a system from scratch is quite easy. You're not quite building from scratch. You just plug the CPU, memory, video cards, expansion slots, etc into the mother board.
Put the mother board, disk drives etc into the case. I've done it several times. The last time around I opted for the mac. I only installed the memory upgrade.

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mike
TC user since v3. MacMini 5.1. 2.3 GHz. 16 Gig RAM.
TC 19 Pro 64 bit. Windows 7.


April 02, 2013, 01:26:31 AM
#17
Could any one tell me what would be the best VGA for rendering, a 1G Radeon HD6870 or a 2G nVida GT 610
Thanks Bob

Bob,

both are capable cards.  Unless you are into moving images/games then it will make little difference which one you choose, IMHO.

So, toss a coin, or follow your nose - the choice is yours!  :D

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 03:10:18 PM by Tim Stewart »

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Regards Tim

You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro (1909) 64-bit


* April 03, 2013, 11:17:10 PM
#18
I'd be interested in what times the upgrade gets for RenderTest.

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5