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Trying to get a feel for rendering times
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October 24, 2012, 09:46:51 AM
Was wondering if you folks who do medium to heavy hitter drawings could express your thoughts on rendering times. Minutes... hours? days? I realize you could remove internal elements speeding up things.. but what is your tolerance for waiting?

It is very time consuming to move lights around, wait to render, then keep doing this over and over until the light positioning is right. There has got to be a faster technique.

Aram

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October 24, 2012, 11:29:34 AM
#1
Aram

I think for presentation two hours for a render to complete is more than adequate for me using the Advanced Rendering.

The best method I have found is to reduce TC window size to get a small preview and I then save as JPEG at a higher resolution...

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* October 24, 2012, 01:24:24 PM
#2
I really, really hate to wait more than about five minutes for a render.

Henry H

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October 24, 2012, 01:45:48 PM
#3
Henry

I take it you don't use AR then  ::)

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* October 24, 2012, 01:57:47 PM
#4
Henry

I take it you don't use AR then  ::)

Hardly ever.  I fiddle with it now and then to see if it does anything nice for my drawings, but it almost never does. I can recall just one instance (attached herewith) when AR was required to produce the effect I was seeking.

Henry H

Henry H

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October 24, 2012, 02:31:51 PM
#5
I really, really hate to wait more than about five minutes for a render.
Henry H

I totally agree with Henry.


* October 24, 2012, 07:34:59 PM
#6
Aram
if use luminance palette will stall your rendition to snails pace.Fewer lights faster the rendering process.At times i use two or three,and defaults lights on occasions.Also if you use radiocsity will slow the rendition down depending what your doing.

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* October 24, 2012, 09:27:17 PM
#7
I really, really hate to wait more than about five minutes for a render.

Henry H

I don't mind waiting, but I find Advanced Rendering and Architectural objects don't play well together. This breakage also occurs in Draft renders, so I know ahead of time to just stay with the Quality render. Advanced Rendering is probably best for non-architectural objects.

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John R.

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October 25, 2012, 03:16:31 PM
#8
Man oh- man... okay... let's see  wd, does the default light turn on any luminance palettes? I have a pretty fast machine now, and I guess as I get better, and draw more complex products my SW, and machine get taxed harder.. I am very curious if Autocad and Solid works behave the same way...  If that is the case, then after this machine it would have to be a 10mil$ "pixar" type machine.  Honestly if I had a machine that was 10x faster, the project I am working on would still take several minutes to render. It is quite a pain to position and look at how the lighting looks. Every little nudge...yields wait time of several several minutes (Even if I don't want to nudge or do something else) I can't even abort quickly.. I am too impatient..  plus it ties up the machine for anything else... which I am sure several of you have noticed by now. Is "AR" auto render? Wasn't clear on the abbreviation.

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October 25, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
#9
You know, it would be nice if tcad provided a stock test object to render with specific settings and compare times between users. I would be curious whose runs quicker.. and try to optimize settings.

A......

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October 25, 2012, 04:34:03 PM
#10
Aram

AR = Advanced Rendering.

I set TC to only use seven processor threads leaving one for doing other things while waiting for the rendering to complete. see below...

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* October 25, 2012, 07:08:23 PM
#11
Aram
Re; to your question
I notice you do have impressive machines.You have invoke lights in luminance palette,I referring to lights up view menu as defaults.How is using directional lights working for you might be an way to go

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


October 26, 2012, 12:43:36 PM
#12
Would this have something to do with rendering speed?


"Material of the graphic(s) "Metals\Chromium" will be ignored in render, because it is overriden by materials of graphic faces. To make this material visible you could remove materials from faces."

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October 26, 2012, 12:45:08 PM
#13
WD:

Could you clarify your last post a bit? Not clear what you are asking.

A..

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October 26, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
#14
Aram

Ignore the warning....tick don't show again. All its informing us is that their is a graphic/s that have some facet editing done to them materialwise.....

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* October 26, 2012, 01:24:00 PM
#15
WD: Could you clarify your last post a bit? Not clear what you are asking. A..

Aram
I was suggesting from your 1st post with regards to positioning that directional lights could be a choice since your aiming direction of the light source could speed up your time line with light locations. Sorry for any confusion.

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


October 29, 2012, 10:55:28 AM
#16
Yes agreed... I try to do as much in wire frame as possible including setting up light directions before rendering... but of course that only goes so far.... Still getting a feel for wattage settings which can only be evaluated when rendering.

 I am curious... which hasn't been answered yet.. are other programs like Solidworks, or Auto cad.. having this same rendering speed issue? (All prog's about the same?) Or is there one that has a superior rendering engine, given the same machine specs?

Just curious.....


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October 29, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
#17
Hmm.. now you have me thinking.. I wonder if it is possible to create a mock similar shaped object, that can be quickly rendered, then create a lighting scenario, and some how save the lighting scene, and apply to the actual project at a later time... that would help alot. Yes/No?

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* October 29, 2012, 11:54:17 AM
#18
Aram

RE: I am curious... which hasn't been answered yet.. are other programs like Solidworks, or Auto cad.. having this same rendering speed issue? (All prog's about the same?) Or is there one that has a superior rendering engine, given the same machine specs.

I doubt if there is superior since all cad software perform differently on each individual design and has to be customize to the designer specifications.When come to autocad it uses one or two ambient lights initially than you have to load an place at desire locations where as Tc loads an assortment automatically place with option to load additional lights.Where as Sketch Up use a rendition engine as plug- in.Tc has the upper advantage when comes to lights and rendering, for Solid works not sure.

IMO Tc is superior to when come rendition.Also there are rendition engines that allow to leap frog a file from another cad software into theirs if the file extension is compatible.As for speed from my experience the more you accessorize your project expect it render at slower rate.I found that a good quantity graphic card is must to achieve impressive renditions.So it should be also consideration in addition to good quality PC.Low end desktops and laptops isn't going to cut it.Although in past I found tried out assortment of trial versions each has there own specific qualities.But the leading players are AC,SW in mechanical design industries.There no one that stands out among all.

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


October 29, 2012, 02:13:29 PM
#19
WD

I am curious to why you think the graphics card has any impact on the quality of a render other than displaying it?

Am I wrong, I don't think the graphics card has anything to do with the quality....i.e printed out??

With regards to speed, the more processors/threads the quicker the render..... some packages can use other machines on a network to share the rendering work. This is only applicable to those packages that are using the CPU or CPU hybrid engines..... those that solely use the GPU i think can only be utilising the machine the software is on.....

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


October 29, 2012, 02:44:13 PM
#20
Yes fellas... and additionally from the help offline help menu under 'desktop':

"OpenGL Hardware Acceleration: Available if your video card is equipped with an accelerator, take this characteristic into account while performing a render."

I am still wondering if red SDK faster or open GL.. It "appears" faster.. but not sure.

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November 08, 2013, 04:06:14 PM
#21
Well folks it was a year ago since I posted this but for what it's worth here is some extra info which I think is very critical. If your CAD package does not utilize multi-threading capability, you have no choice but to buy a machine in which has a clock that runs as fast as possible. Hence "Overclocked" systems.. Autocad can not multithread. Solidworks cad only thread in some sort of 2D mode (I am not familiar enough with the package to give details). That makes a multicore workstation kind of a waste of money for these packages, except for the fact your OS will run a bit better as it gets taxed. Now it makes sense why overclocking is so touted with those packages. Those CAD packages haven't caught up with the hardware technology, and the speed ceiling on PC's has been reached.

Parallel processing running at slower speeds is way more efficient. By chance, and luck, TC has multi-threading, and you can set the threads. My latest machine theoretically has 24 threads. My old machine (Intellistation) was a P4 3.2ghz., and #2 (HP Z210) is 8 threader. I want to experiment with some rendering and see how dramatic the speed will be on the Lenovo D30..

Additionally as I understand it, The graphics card takes care of the movement of the object. When you stop moving, the CPU takes over to re-render. GC's with built in GPU's on them will share with rendering and actually become extra cores the machine can utilize, but those are expensive cards (I think high end Quadro's)....   So.. TC has made good in that part.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 10:31:02 AM by Aram »

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