doesHi this is John FromAustralia.
I buoght Tcad +FM 10 from an australian agent,what great service they provided.
Now I feel i am totaly on my own. I am a furniture designer/maker trying to keep up with
tachnology CAD, CAM CNC etc. Ive looked at cabinet vision, pytha, microvelum etc etc.
Then i stumbled on Tcad +Furniture Maker 10. Just what i needed. I asked some questions
on this Forum and to sales staff regarding my requirements. I was told the software
would be ideal for my requirements.
I took the advice and purchased both softwares, Wow received a 600+ page Tcad manual
+ axess to heaps of informative tutorials. But been a furniture maker wth CAD experience
iwas looking forward to going through an informative manual pluss maybe some video's.
Half the vidios have no sound. sorry to be blunt but What bloody use are thay. The other videos
are in no apparant order. No step by step intro, Nothing regardin correct procedures
to follow.  All we have left is this forum. Dont tell me there are usefull video tutorials to buy,
I have looked at these. Great tor Tcad But nothing for furniture maker. Tcad woodworking
videos are no use to furniture makers who need to use this software to help run a modern
furniture making  business.  What does anyone else think.    John

John:

Your comments are bang on.

Did you read my review on this forum? Many of the same issues.

I have emailed the copy to Spinar. No reply.

Next is that I will start a support incident with IMSI/TurboCad I guess.

The package does work -- I am using it -- but it is needlessly painful.

I dont see a lot of posts in this sub forum, & I do not use the plug-in. I will download it & see if I can offer any help. BTW, have these concerns been posted in the "General Discussion" forum? If not, then make some new post there to see if you get more responses.

doesHi this is John FromAustralia.
I buoght Tcad +FM 10 from an australian agent,what great service they provided.
Now I feel i am totaly on my own. I am a furniture designer/maker trying to keep up with
tachnology CAD, CAM CNC etc. Ive looked at cabinet vision, pytha, microvelum etc etc.
Then i stumbled on Tcad +Furniture Maker 10. Just what i needed. I asked some questions
on this Forum and to sales staff regarding my requirements. I was told the software
would be ideal for my requirements.
I took the advice and purchased both softwares, Wow received a 600+ page Tcad manual
+ axess to heaps of informative tutorials. But been a furniture maker wth CAD experience
iwas looking forward to going through an informative manual pluss maybe some video's.
Half the vidios have no sound. sorry to be blunt but What bloody use are thay. The other videos
are in no apparant order. No step by step intro, Nothing regardin correct procedures
to follow.  All we have left is this forum. Dont tell me there are usefull video tutorials to buy,
I have looked at these. Great tor Tcad But nothing for furniture maker. Tcad woodworking
videos are no use to furniture makers who need to use this software to help run a modern
furniture making  business.  What does anyone else think.    John

John, sadly it seems that Imsi is only half heartedly supporting this product which speaks volumes because in my opinion nothing should be offered without proper commitment to a product. We [other users] are relying on people like you to iron out the wrinkles before we get too far involved....hope you are successful and please post details of your journey with this, we may be of help with regard to turbocad but it seems there are not many Furniture Maker users yet. Best wishes, Alan www.bucksbedrooms.co.uk

Hi John,

With the videos are you talking about the you tube videos or the videos on the help/information menu.
With the furniture maker drop down menu there is the INFORMATION section that comes with the PDF and then the video's.  I have gone over most of the videos and all have soun

Natalie, Mindscape

Natalie:

I recall that some do NOT have sound. I recently installed it on my home system -- now I am about 5000 Km away with no prospect of being rescued from the palm trees and sunny beaches to return to the frozen north...

To the point though...

Those that do have sound are typically read by a native English (USA version?) speaker who is reading a Czinglich script (i.e. Czeck-English Hybrid bafflegab language) -- with incomprehensible gibberish acronyms for common items. But that's just my opinion...

You still have to decode the videos -- even if they are English -- sort of English kinda anyway...

Think I've waited long enough for Imsi Design to get their act together. Enough is enough so think I will have to make a more concerted effort to migrate to Sketchup. So long folks and good luck.

Alan:

Ah there's your problem -- there is no "act" to get together... Not even that far along. (As fara as FM10 is concerned...) The rest I like. Currently using TC18.2 to design a refining machine for metals production...

My emails to Spinar are so far unanswered and no answer on the forum to the same questions...

Maybe I should take on one more "translation" job...

Let me see if I can get Dave Taylor to get the programming team to look at this.

KMartin:

I think you would make some life long friends if you could get action on the obvious problems...

See the "recent" thread started by me for a list of issues...

Not interested in complaining much -- just some fixes and updates to make things work...

It has been similar with the CAM plugin, as only a few very minor changes have been made. With that said, TCC is more than adequate to handle everything I do as of now.

We have contacted Milan about your comments and are waiting for a more formal response.  He is the person who programs FM.  He is also Czech as you seem to have picked up on,  and English is not his first language.  We did try to redo the audio for the videos but found it was very difficult even trying to go by a script due to translation issues. 

That said I get many videos from our developers without sound, typically you just have to go thru them a few times to catch everything.  However I do not think that is unusual even when there is perfect audio in order to catch every step. However based on the comments it seems like a more linear step by step set of movies would be better?

Dave Taylor:

A lot of it is the speed of the videos and some of it is the (lack of) clarity.

As I said in a previous post I translated a Czinglich manual on a Database Design Case Tool  from same to real English -- t was a real challenge as they wished to correct my English constantly  ... Subsequently they were able to sell the product to a large company. Next time I will charge what the project is worth though. It's not trivial. 

In this case I think the value as well as the usability of the product would increase enormously so do what you can to convince them...


Of course answering their email would help...

I would still like to see the label problem fixed as I design in metric but must buy and print on English (Imperial) paper sizes... I really can't buy labels on an A4 sheet unless I order from Europe or Australia...

KMartin:

I think you would make some life long friends if you could get action on the obvious problems...

See the "recent" thread started by me for a list of issues...

Not interested in complaining much -- just some fixes and updates to make things work...

Looks as though I found you guys some help. I hope that your problems get worked out. I would like to see some of the work done with this plug in.

Thank you for your criticism of TCFM. I think that understand your problem because our developing team have been dealing with this problem in your branch for a long time.      
We are not able to answer quickly some questions to those customers who are out of our market. We apologize for that.
Nevertheless we will try hard to improve support of our customers and our partners for new version TCFM v11.
And also we realize that we have to improve our translation. My English neither English of my programotors isn´t so good. That is why we have signed translation agency. Maybe it would  be better to exchange translation agency that has been working for us so far for another one and cooperate with somebody from your marketplace who understand terminology of woodworking.

If there is interest in cooperation with translation of the product and of the manual (for new version 11) we could offer to this subject individual support and this subject could be also reference for TCFM in your marketplace. If you are interested in it, please contact us by email info@spinar.cz .

How to create interior, import your own symbols library and obtain material consumption, price and  Cutting Optimization planing by means of TCFM?
It is needed :
1) to learn TurboCAD. Learn at least the basics see vidos or order training of the TurboCAD and TCFM.
- working with slab
- working with sanp tool, layers and library

2) to define yours requirements for library and for whole process and create sample of cabinet symbols inclutding pricing and exporting to manufacturing.

3) To know how function creation of own library of symbols in TCFM

4)  To know how works DAEX CUT.

I can help you step by step. But from experience I know that every company want their own solution or they are just looking for the solution. Is anybody here who could send me simple cabinet 3D model from TurboCAD or definition of construction? Than I can help and to present it (video on YouTube) : standard process of creating of the cabinet, of his saving to library and loading to DAEX CUT.

Also, it is possible to make agreement if there is somebody interested in creating own symbols library and do special editing for print page. It is paied service on our market. We believe some of our partners or some customer will be perhaps interested in this type of support and help us (Our company is engagement orders in our market now). Milan

Milan:

Please read the following and tell me if this is what you mean to say. I have added material where the meaning was completely unclear to me.

Your offer is still unclear. If it is not what you are trying to say then the language difficulties should be obvious. Feel free to correct what you mean to say.



A re-write of your post follows.
**********************************

To all:

Thank you for your criticism of TCFM. I think that I understand your problem because our development team has been dealing with this problem of foreign customers for a long time.


We are not able to answer quickly some questions of those customers who are outside our country and our normal marketing area. We apologize for that.

Nevertheless we will try hard to improve support of our customers and our partners for our new version TCFM v11.
 
We do realize that we have to improve the translation of our manual and videos. My English , and that of my programmers is not as good as we would wish it to be. That is why we had contracted a translation agency. Maybe it would be better to change our translation agency that has been working for us so far for another one and cooperate with somebody from your marketplace who understands the terminology of woodworking.

If there is interest in assisting us in the translation of the product terminology within the program and of the manual and videos (for the new version 11) we could offer individual support to this person, and they could be also be a reference for TCFM in your marketplace. If you are interested in performing this work, please contact us by email info@spinar.cz .

In order to understand how to create an interior layout (drawing), import your own symbols library and obtain material consumption, price and Cutting Optimization planning by means of TCFM you must know and understand the following before you attempt to use our program.

Suggested Requirements:
1) You must learn TurboCAD -- at least the basics. For this, you can review the videos and perhaps purchase and view the training course for TurboCAD and, subsequently, TCFM. We suggest that you know at least the following:
- working with planes; and,
- working with the snap tool, layers and library; and,
- understanding of 3D techniques which you could learn from the TC course as well

2) You must be able to define your requirements for additional library items (symbols) and of course for the entire process of designing a cabinet layout. In addition you must be able to create a new cabinet configuration and then create the symbols. You must also be able to perform the pricing operation and be able to export the order to the manufacturing process where the Bill of Material and Cut-List (cutting plan) is created.

3) You must know how to create your own library from the symbols you previously created in TCFM.

4) You must know how DAEX CUT works and the various operations including order entry, materials assignment, raw materials, data entry and the creation of alternative cut-lists based on cross-cut or rip-cut preferences or even “tightly packed” cut lists with no allowance for cut difficulty where you must use the minimum amount of material.


I can help you step by step. But from experience I know that every company wants their own solution. However it is possible they are just looking for a solution to which they will adapt. For this purpose we include a wide range of symbols in our program. You could choose to use only those symbols (cabinets) in your designs. However, customizing the symbols will widen your available market.

Is there anybody here who could send me a simple cabinet 3D model from TurboCAD or a definition of your style of construction? Then, I can help you by creating the cabinet and presenting it as a video on YouTube.  I will cover the standard process of creating of your particular cabinet, of saving the design to a library and then passing the design to DAEX CUT for creation of the order and cut-lists as well as the Material Bills (Bill of Materials or BOM), reports and labels.

Also, it is possible that we could make an agreement if there is somebody interested in creating their own symbols library and doing special editing for a print page. (DO YOU MEAN A BROCHURE?) It is a paid service (contract?) which we provide in our market (Contract services or assistance?). We believe some of our partners or some customer could be  interested in providing this type of support and help us by training our new customers or assisting them is converting their design and planning system to TurboCad with Furniture Maker. Our company currently contracts this service in our market.

Milan

***************************************************

The last paragraph is still hopelessly unclear to me.

But maybe it is better...


1) You really do need a more competent translation firm.
2) You also need to get a proof reader from Canada Australia or the USA... where most of your foreign sales occur.

Of course it also looks like those of us who bought version 10 have been abandoned.

Is that your intention?

To answer your questions  and comment on your suggestions:

Helping one person makes no sense to me.

I see more value in doing the following:

1) Correct the manual and make the English understandable. That should take about one month. That will then serve as a model and template for new versions.

2) Fix the label printing so that you can use English size labels even if you install the metric version of FM10

3) Correct the script for the video and slow down the movies. Use the TC 17 training for 2D and 3D as a model. That will suggest how fast you can present the material so that people can follow without starting and stopping and re-starting the video again.

4) Improve the data entry for new raw materials. The current entry method is unclear to the point of being completely confusing.

If you do the four things above you will build a much more loyal following and gain new customers.

In addition:

5) Provide a much better explanation of the use of the layer control functions. Explain how they are used to assign materials in conjunction with the order processing screens.

6) Allow connection to an external database of parts. Also allow people to use the internal tables and access them via ODBC. This would allow people to connect to their purchasing and accounting systems and provide complete financial accountability. To do this you need to change to one of the widely used DB formats dBase, MS Access tables, Interbase, Paradox or something with ODBC connectivity.



The above two item should be done -- or at least started -- immediately as well.

Then -- provide an upgrade to version 10 so that we can have what we paid for. I cannot even print labels since I installed the metric version. I cannot buy the correct labels in North America.

Telling me that the Labels are "widely available" without telling me the format or the equivalent avery number with measurements and margins just makes me angry.

Thanks  for your comments. Please send me your proposal Lables in XLS, DOC or PDF (info@spinar.cz). We try to help you. Milan

Milan:

I hope that you are reading all the threads....
Especially my thread.  


I sent the "proposal" several months ago...


http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,7417.0.html

Just a bit more on the labels...

What is not there is an intelligent routine to build labels. Now, I work in metric (System 32), but the only easily available labels that are suitable are on 8 1/2" X 11" paper... not the "easily available" label forms template they supply -- available on A4. One of the disadvantages of living in Canada I guess.

For the specifications and so on they can download the program and hunt out the specifications here...
http://www.avery.ca/avery/en_ca/

If you download and install the Avery Label Generator -- then choose the "Design From Scratch" option. It allows you access to all their label formats.. (Also available from File -> New -> Design From Scratch.

Then Highlight the "5162, 5163 or 5164" labels -- or the 8162, 8163 or 8164 -- which are the same templates measurement wise)

These would all be good choices for the North American (USA Canada and Mexican) Markets.

Spinar does NOT tell you which template to use for their labels -- so I have no idea which Avery A4 Label template to special order if I could order it here... I can get A4 paper -- and maybe others -- if I order it -- although the larger Office Depot /Staples stores stock it here.

1) We can perepare Labes exactly for your. But we need your proposal Lables in XLS, JPG, DOC or PDF (info@spinar.Cz).  See for examlpale here http://www.spinar.Cz/download_2/Stitok2.Pdf

2) We prepere new Labes for 8 1/2" X 11" asap.

If our customer send us his proposal Labels, we are able to do it exactly how he need. It is the quickest way. FYI : There is more problems regarding Labels with a view to calculation mode and software saw. 
But for some Labes we can prepare export data for  http://www.avery.Ca/avery/en_ca/ we will look at it.

Milan:

Your link does not work for me!

That is a very kind offer. However, All I want is for your labels to print on any paper stock I can purchase -- which here is the English sizes -- and the Avery Labels I described.

For Example -- just this style of label printing correctly will keep me happy! Very Happy See between the **********

However, I will say again the labels you currently print will satisfy me -- if I can print them on a InkJet sheet that I can purchase in Canada, Mexico or United States!!!!!!!!


************************

Part: 1  (1 of 2)
19.1mm x 19.1mm x 1092.2mm
SC Top BS  | SA: White Ash


*************************

DESCRIPTION

Part: (PART NO)  (ITEM NO of Number of Copies)
Thickness  X WIDTH X LENGTH
PART NAME | SA: (MATERIAL NAME)

Your labels are fine also. But if you want to see another way to do things -- see here:
http://cutlistplus.com/download/

They have some test data you can look at.

You should also look at that program because they use accepted terminology for English Speaking North Americans.

Please note that you can choose the label dimensions and paper size and describe the label.

Got to File -->  Labels Printing --> Print

Next, choose Labels Setup.

Next you can choose what information to put on the label.

On the Sheet Setup tab you can describe the label -- the PHYSICAL appearance.


I will email you an XPS file and you can use the Microsoft viewer to see what labels I print now!


Please note that we use the following notation for decimals and commas... It should be set automatically.

One thousand, five hundred and forty two point (decimal) three five :=

1,542.35

Note that the period (.) starts the fractional (decimal) part.

We are working on this, but if you need some Labels fast. Please send me text and size. For example  http://www.spinar.Cz/download_2/Stitok2.Pdf

We are working on this, but if you need some Labels fast. Please send me text and size. For example  http://www.spinar.Cz/download_2/Stitok2.Pdf

Again -- the link does not work!

No I do not need labels fast. I am 5000Km from my home machine.  I am working on another project -- not furniture.

I just want the labels to work.


I do Not have my FM10 loaded on this machine -- just the TC18.2



HERE IS THE CORRECT LINK for anyone else following...

http://www.spinar.cz/download_2/Stitok2.pdf

(note ...pdf   NOT ...Pdf)

I see that you do not have the thickness on that label -- I always include thickness to identify the sheet material...


We always include the thickness ( 5/8" ~ 16mm         3/4"  ~ 19.27mm

(Due to imperfect manufacturing the sheets are thicker than 19.05mm)

Our thickness in North America is variable. It depends on the supplier. Sometimes it is 19mm sometime it is 19.15 mm sometimes it is 19.5 mm)


Also we usually buy in 4' X 8 ' x 5/8" sheets.... These sheets are really 49" X 97" X 5/8" . They are slightly oversize to allow for trimming the edge of the sheet to get a perfect (clean) edge.


We enter it into the system as:

1244.6mm X 2463.8 x 16mm

The thickness is usually 16mm or slightly larger dues to imperfect manufacturing and gain of moisture (water).

Milan:

One other important issue is a data entry screen that allows you to enter new material and is more clear in its function...

Another important issue is the remainder pieces (off-cuts).  I always return pieces to stock when I believe they are still re-usable. We call them off-cuts. (Because we cut them off a full size piece.)

I am not clear how to return these small pieces to inventory so they can be included in the next optimization. I do not wish to waste expensive material.

I make small batches of cabinets. Perhaps I will make five or 10 cabinets in one batch (group). I always have off-cuts remaining


 

FYI :
1) Labels
First testing design we will send you during next week.
2) Add new materials
You can add new material :
   a) to order (with possibility add at the same time to assortment (to  DAEX database)
   Please see manulal page 11 (point 7)

   b) to DAEX to assortment (to  DAEX database)
   Please see video from TCFM
   b1) C:\Program Files\Spinar-software\TurboCAD Furniture Maker\DAEX_CUT\Help\InsertingDatainto Assortment.htm
    b2) C:\Program Files\Spinar-software\TurboCAD Furniture Maker\DAEX_CUT\Help\DataImportExport.htm

3) off-cuts
You can used full size piece with combination off-cuts. It works OK.
   a) You add new materil  to "Assortment" or edit materiel or you can add new material only to order (Please see manulal page 11 (point 7)
   b) clik on matrail - right click mouse chose "Stock"
   c) "Add Format" like standard  = "S"
   d) You mark "Negative quntity" or add to Stock - for examle 20 full size piece
   d) OK
   e) you creat your order (make five or 10 cabinets with this material)
   f)  optimalizacion for examlple "Optimal"
           g) Use stock for the calculation "Yes" and Negative balance allowed "Yes"
   
   If you look at "Stock" so there will be off-cuts (min. size for off-cuts you can define in "Options/MinStock and next setting for optimalizacion. If in "Stock" you mark off-cuts "!" then so in next optimalizacion program will try to use first off-cuts. Without "!" program try to use all formats in stock and searching better "timber output". FYI : First format "S" = standard and if you use mark "X" so this format will not used in optimalizacion.

FYI : TCFMv11 will have new variant optimalizacion and new automatic mark "!" for off-cuts  and also new graphic of cutting planes ...

Milan:

Yes I do know how to do all that except cut-offs.

I will try to load the FM 10. I have the disk and Key with me. I hope the license works. 

Then I will try to help you with the explanation and put it in more clear English.


ASSORTMENT   -->  We say INVENTORY

Can you change this word  in your manual and program and explanations. PLEASE?

Some of your wording is TERRIBLE -- and I am being nice! 

So I will try to help here and show you a better way to explain this. However, I must load the program and try to follow your instructions. Then I will write it in better English.

So Happy New Year (Feliz Nuevo Ano) and I know that people do appreciate your helping. Since it is the Holiday Season most people are not working.  So not too many people are replying.



We tested my mining machine today -- the design works OK  so maybe I can take some time and work on the wording for this part of the program.

Milan:

I left my copy of FM10 at my house so it is not possible for me to install FM10 and review the procedures and re-write them.

See if someone else is willing to help.

Regards!

Quote from: WillR on December 28, 2011, 01:53:52 PM

Quote from: Milan on December 28, 2011, 12:37:05 PM

We are working on this, but if you need some Labels fast. Please send me text and size. For example  http://www.spinar.Cz/download_2/Stitok2.Pdf

Again -- the link does not work!

No I do not need labels fast. I am 5000Km from my home machine.  I am working on another project -- not furniture.

I just want the labels to work.


I do Not have my FM10 loaded on this machine -- just the TC18.2



HERE IS THE CORRECT LINK for anyone else following...

http://www.spinar.cz/download_2/Stitok2.pdf

(note ...pdf   NOT ...Pdf)

I see that you do not have the thickness on that label -- I always include thickness to identify the sheet material...


We always include the thickness ( 5/8" ~ 16mm         3/4"  ~ 19.27mm

(Due to imperfect manufacturing the sheets are thicker than 19.05mm)

Our thickness in North America is variable. It depends on the supplier. Sometimes it is 19mm sometime it is 19.15 mm sometimes it is 19.5 mm)


Also we usually buy in 4' X 8 ' x 5/8" sheets.... These sheets are really 49" X 97" X 5/8" . They are slightly oversize to allow for trimming the edge of the sheet to get a perfect (clean) edge.


We enter it into the system as:

1244.6mm X 2463.8 x 15.9mm   (or as 16mm). We always check the thickness.

The thickness is usually 16mm or slightly larger dues to imperfect manufacturing and gain of moisture (water).

It wouldn't surprise me if panels are purposely a tad thicker which gives any manufacturer with a top of the range very wide sander opportunity to calibrate them exactly. Little guys can compensate accordingly despite the minor irritation.

Alan:

Well somebody is reading the thread -- this is good!

Unless I can find a copy of FM10 I am out of the discussion for now. It would cost me more to have mine shipped here than the original value plus shipping.

Maybe someone else can try what Milan outlined...

Pretty frustrating...

BTW -- I have never had an email answered. I still have no idea if Milan has ever read one...

Oh well...

I send you first Lables :

Installation : 
1) download :
http://www.spinar.cz/download_2/2012_01_02_Labels_85_11.zip
2) unpack
3) files “Cutt6“ and “Cutt6c“ copy to :
C:\Program Files\Spinar-software\TurboCAD Furniture Maker\DAEX_CUT\Common

“Cutt6“ = "PT+Labels" = size Letter (Avery 5163)
“Cutt6c“ = "PT+Labels_C" size Letter (Avery 5160)

samples :
"PT+Labels"      http://www.spinar.cz/download_2/Letter1.pdf
"PT+Labels_C"  http://www.spinar.cz/download_2/Letter2.pdf

Please test it. If it OK then we will make next Lables.

Milan:

I had a quick look at the two pdf files. Those labels look good.

Now we need somebody to try them.

MY FM10 disk is in Canada. I am in Mexico working for a few weeks more. (5000km from my FM 10disk)

Can I download a copy of FM 10? I have valid license numbers. If you want me to check the system I do need to install it.

Please send me an email via this forum if you can arrange this. I can have the license numbers sent to me from my office.

If you can arrange to download a copy I will write up the procedures for generating the labels in FM10 in proper English.

That's my final offer! 

You can have someone explain that last Joke!

Please you contact IMSI DESIGN with regard to download a copy of FMv10.

Milan:

If you consider that I offered to do some writing -- and did not mention Money! $$$ Maybe you should take the trouble.

I have lots to do to occupy my time as well. 

Happy new year!

And he did so I will try to get something together for that part at least....

Thank you everyone!

I installed the Metric Version and the labels work. I will see if I can do some re-writing of the procedure above, and maybe some other material.

We need to convince Milan to name the labels in a fashion that allows us to distinguish what they are -- or they need descriptions embedded in the program.... When you choose the new label format you have to know what you are choosing.

Also, the print control screens in DAEX are in Czech. I would really prefer English screens -- that should be fixed immediately.


In addition, the manual could have made the installation easier -- a simple critical point was missed.


Milan:  If you see this can you send me a copy of the original document and I will do a simple cleanup to correct minor spelling and grammar errors. I can also fix the minor errors regarding installation.


I assume that you are using Open Office -- that is what it looks like to me. I have the latest versions installed.

I can send you materials for correction english for manual, labels and installation TCFM.
I will contact you and my partners with my offer about possible cooperation.

Milan:

Happy to see if I can help. I am just working through some other issues with the program -- material assignment and cut list generation.

John Powell raised the issue of how to assign materials -- it really is NOT clear you know!

I may be able to do a short post on that soon.