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Sort out SEKES
Read 678 times
* March 31, 2020, 07:01:45 AM
As far as I can make out, there are three classes of action that use SEKES. Creating, measuring and transforming/moving. What I find annoying in TC is that the way SEKES work in these categories is inconsistent. For instance, if you are creating, TC does not care whether there are several entities sharing the same SEKE. It will happily snap to a vertex without asking which entities vertex you want to snap to. Not so with dimensions, where TC will ask you over and over which of those identical points you want to snap to. I know there is an option to change the way snaps work in the aperture, but I don't want to be turning that on and off every few seconds.
The I (intersection) SEKE seems to be somehow inferior to the other main ones- it is never offered but has to be chosen. And before anyone says "change the settings", I have!
If I am drawing (as I often do!) a lot of rectangles that are snapped to each other, the magnetic point and auxiliary line feature would be very useful. However, it often doesn't work, although it seems to. You get the auxiliary lines generated, you hover over them, and the thing just won't snap to it. Many times I have drawn a rectangle which I thought was snapped to another feature, only to find that it's missed by a whisker. If you then want to change the size by selecting it, grabbing a side and pulling it to a feature, that's much more reliable.However, magnetic lines don't even appear when you're changing something in this way, so you can't for instance snap a box vertex to the projected intersection of two other entities with confidence.

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March 31, 2020, 07:01:29 PM
#1
As far as I can make out, there are three classes of action that use SEKES. Creating, measuring and transforming/moving. What I find annoying in TC is that the way SEKES work in these categories is inconsistent. For instance, if you are creating, TC does not care whether there are several entities sharing the same SEKE. It will happily snap to a vertex without asking which entities vertex you want to snap to. Not so with dimensions, where TC will ask you over and over which of those identical points you want to snap to. I know there is an option to change the way snaps work in the aperture, but I don't want to be turning that on and off every few seconds.
The I (intersection) SEKE seems to be somehow inferior to the other main ones- it is never offered but has to be chosen. And before anyone says "change the settings", I have!
If I am drawing (as I often do!) a lot of rectangles that are snapped to each other, the magnetic point and auxiliary line feature would be very useful. However, it often doesn't work, although it seems to. You get the auxiliary lines generated, you hover over them, and the thing just won't snap to it. Many times I have drawn a rectangle which I thought was snapped to another feature, only to find that it's missed by a whisker. If you then want to change the size by selecting it, grabbing a side and pulling it to a feature, that's much more reliable.However, magnetic lines don't even appear when you're changing something in this way, so you can't for instance snap a box vertex to the projected intersection of two other entities with confidence.

Hi Peter.  So... your Wish List suggestion is for you to be more experienced and knowledgeable with the use of TurboCAD?

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* April 03, 2020, 08:09:47 AM
#2
Ow!!! That stings, Alvin. Which of my wishes does TC already do?

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April 03, 2020, 07:49:57 PM
#3
Ow!!! That stings, Alvin. Which of my wishes does TC already do?

Yeah, I can get snarky.  I'm trying to break the habit; but it's a stubborn one.  I'd like to be a kind guy; evidence at my past-two-months job would suggest otherwise.

I'll probably respond to the second part of your post tomorrow; if someone else hadn't already.

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


April 03, 2020, 09:07:43 PM
#4
[edited a bit by Alvin; an attempt to add some clarity]

>As far as I can make out, there are three classes of action that use SEKES. Creating, measuring and transforming/moving.
>What I find annoying in TC is that the way SEKES work in these categories is inconsistent.

1) For instance, if you are creating, TC does not care whether there are several entities sharing the same SEKE; it will happily snap to a vertex without asking which entities vertex you want to snap to.
2) Not so with dimensions, where TC will ask you over and over which of those identical points you want to snap to.
3)I know there is an option to change the way snaps work in the aperture, but I don't want to be turning that on and off every few seconds.
4) The I (intersection) SEKE seems to be somehow inferior to the other main ones- it is never offered but has to be chosen. And before anyone says "change the settings", I have!
5) If I am drawing (as I often do!) a lot of rectangles that are snapped to each other, the magnetic point and auxiliary line feature would be very useful. However, it often doesn't work, although it seems to. You get the auxiliary lines generated, you hover over them, and the thing just won't snap to it.
6) Many times I have drawn a rectangle which I thought was snapped to another feature, only to find that it's missed by a whisker. If you then want to change the size by selecting it, grabbing a side and pulling it to a feature, that's much more reliable.  However, magnetic lines don't even appear when you're changing something in this way, so you can't for instance snap a box vertex to the projected intersection of two other entities with confidence.


I have none of those troubles.

1) I generally use the option "Use choice if several entities in Aperture while selection" ticked, to be active.
2)  Dimension Snaps, including SEKE Snaps, behave no differently than other operations' Snaps, including SEKE Snaps; it probably just appears to you that that is the case.
3) I generally work with the option "Show Snap Aperture" On-- doing so via either the Workspace Menu or the Options/Program_Setup Menu/sub-menu.
4)  In the Snap Settings (right-click on the SNAP button at the bottom), we set "Priority Order" of the Snaps.  (there!... I suggested to you to change a setting, though you admonished us not to)
5) I have never figured out what Auxiliary Lines are. (I assume they are the Geometric Aids--> "Extended Ortho" and "Apparent Intersection"; I don't care for those, they've always been flaky for me; have never gotten used to them or liked them; I use $Constructions).  I am wondering if Auxiliary Lines are in fact intended to be able to be Snapped to.
6)  You state "However, magnetic lines don't even appear when you're changing something in this way...":  I don't know if I've heard/read of the term "Magnetic Lines".

Again, I have none (if we don't include "Auxiliary Lines" and "Magnetic Lines") of the issues you describe; for the most part is sounds/seems like typical User lack-of-experience/knowledge with/of TurboCAD.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:12:30 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* April 04, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
#5
As far as I can make out, there are three classes of action that use SEKES. Creating, measuring and transforming/moving. What I find annoying in TC is that the way SEKES work in these categories is inconsistent. For instance, if you are creating, TC does not care whether there are several entities sharing the same SEKE. It will happily snap to a vertex without asking which entities vertex you want to snap to. Not so with dimensions, where TC will ask you over and over which of those identical points you want to snap to. I know there is an option to change the way snaps work in the aperture, but I don't want to be turning that on and off every few seconds.
The I (intersection) SEKE seems to be somehow inferior to the other main ones- it is never offered but has to be chosen. And before anyone says "change the settings", I have!
If I am drawing (as I often do!) a lot of rectangles that are snapped to each other, the magnetic point and auxiliary line feature would be very useful. However, it often doesn't work, although it seems to. You get the auxiliary lines generated, you hover over them, and the thing just won't snap to it. Many times I have drawn a rectangle which I thought was snapped to another feature, only to find that it's missed by a whisker. If you then want to change the size by selecting it, grabbing a side and pulling it to a feature, that's much more reliable.However, magnetic lines don't even appear when you're changing something in this way, so you can't for instance snap a box vertex to the projected intersection of two other entities with confidence.

I've read this post several times and still can't decipher if you're working using SEKES or Snaps. Would you please clarify.

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DonCW
2017 Pro with Light Works Plug in
2018 Platinum
2020 Platinum

Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


April 04, 2020, 02:08:45 PM
#6
I've read this post several times and still can't decipher if you're working using SEKES or Snaps. Would you please clarify.

SEKE stands for either "Single Entry Keyboard Equivalent" or "Single Equivalent Keyboard Entry".  I always get confused and forget which.

So-- SEKEs are not necessarily Snaps; and SEKEs do not necessarily exclude SNAPs...  SEKE's can be used to invoke a Snap.  SEKE's can be used for other stuff too; stuff that we want to do with a Single Entry Keyboard Equivalent.

To me, in regards to Snaps, the difference in invoking Snaps lies in
>Using a SEKE to invoke Snap
and/or
>Having Running_Snaps active, to invoke Snaps
and/or
>Local_(Menu)_Snap
and/or
>a combination of the two or three while working
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 02:11:54 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


April 04, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
#7
I've read this post several times and still can't decipher if you're working using SEKES or Snaps. Would you please clarify.

SEKE stands for either "Single Entry Keyboard Equivalent" or "Single Equivalent Keyboard Entry".  I always get confused and forget which.

So-- SEKEs are not necessarily Snaps; and SEKEs do not necessarily exclude SNAPs...  SEKE's can be used to invoke a Snap.  SEKE's can be used for other stuff too; stuff that we want to do with a Single Entry Keyboard Equivalent.

To me, in regards to Snaps, the difference in invoking Snaps lies in
>Using a SEKE to invoke Snap
and/or
>Having Running_Snaps active, to invoke Snaps
and/or
>Local_(Menu)_Snap
and/or
>a combination of the two or three while working

Reference image below, snipped from the online Help Portal, here.

(I don't know why the first two words are highlighted; perhaps that is the result of my using my browser's "Find" function.)

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* April 04, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
#8
Ow!!! That stings, Alvin. Which of my wishes does TC already do?

Peter, I'm not Alvin but I am having trouble understanding just what your wishes are.

Henry H

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April 04, 2020, 08:02:28 PM
#9

I fully understand the difference between Snaps and SEKES. I believe it was Peter looking for HELP on this HELP forum not snide condescending remarks.


My apologies Don.  Nothing snide nor condescending intended.
-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* April 06, 2020, 06:44:43 AM
#10
Dimension feature identification can be more demanding because dims are often associative, and many are associated to specific entities rather than the distance between entities, or can be associated with the particular feature of an entity.  When the entity is edited, ie the length of a line is changed, the dimension will update automatically.  When you're being nagged but there's only one entity, the context of the feature might change, for example you've used an ortho measurement, but it might be that the line's angle could be changed to non-ortho, so a parallel dimension will show the correct length but an ortho dim shows its x or y extent.  Another example might be that you're snapping to a line intersecting with the middle of another line, but that relationship might be changed subsequently.  If you've got vertex and middle points checked for running snaps, your priority order might be different to this particular instance.  In that case, override the running snaps with an M or V SEKE.


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* April 10, 2020, 06:39:51 AM
#11
Thanks for all your comments. I have always had the "use choice..." box ticked. However, Murray's explanation of why you need to specify more for dimensions than drawing makes sense, and will probably diminish my annoyance in future!
I am self-taught, with about 10 years experience, and have probably got lots of bad habits and gaps in my knowledge.Thanks for all your help over the years.
Pete

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* April 10, 2020, 06:48:09 AM
#12
BTW, I had elided "magnetic point" and "auxiliary lines". What I was referring to is the very helpful pink dashed lines that emanate from a feature when you have a tool selected and hover over it.
These definitely behave differently - on my laptop anyway-  depending on whether you are drawing, measuring or modifying. They don't even appear when I am moving something by picking it up by its yellow dot/origin point.

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* April 10, 2020, 10:17:32 PM
#13
those lines are activated when extended ortho and apparent intersection (snaps) are on

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* April 17, 2020, 08:11:59 AM
#14
Yes, I know- but they don't work consistently. If you open Drawing 1 attached and pick up the green box by its yellow dot, try to snap it to the point where the extended lines from the two vertices indicated by the red lines cross. In my version of TC (20.2 pro plat) you will get a little flash of the pink lines and then nothing. If you try to snap the green box to where the lines cross, it will- kind of. However, it isn't definite enough to trust.

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April 17, 2020, 02:23:02 PM
#15
Yes, I know- but they don't work consistently. If you open Drawing 1 attached and pick up the green box by its yellow dot, try to snap it to the point where the extended lines from the two vertices indicated by the red lines cross. In my version of TC (20.2 pro plat) you will get a little flash of the pink lines and then nothing. If you try to snap the green box to where the lines cross, it will- kind of. However, it isn't definite enough to trust.

I concur.  Those Geometric Aids do not work consistently.  Fairly flaky.  After trying to use them a few times, I just gave up and decided it wasn't worth it.  I get along fine in TurboCAD without them.

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)