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Parametric Parts Reserved Word List II
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* December 09, 2019, 06:17:59 AM
Parametric Parts Reserved Word List II - continuation

Hello PPM fans,

Today I have a table made of ppm profiles. I have to say that it's pretty quick to construct. See picture 1.

Then I went to the drawing palette and wanted to quickly create the 3 views. Upps what do I see in the palette? See picture 2.

Ok, I think. I create a STEP file and then make the drawings (3 views). Hmmm, not bad, but the 2D profiles from the ppm are displayed. See picture 3.

By the way, I checked the ppm. It should only be the body in the output.

I ask for your tips, thanks.

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December 09, 2019, 07:15:09 AM
#1
Parametric Parts Reserved Word List II - continuation

Hello PPM fans,

...

I ask for your tips, thanks.

Can you post the Drawing file and the PPM script.

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Alvin Gregorio
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* December 09, 2019, 08:38:15 AM
#2
Hi,

here are the files.


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* December 09, 2019, 09:02:29 AM
#3
Maybe you send wrong drawing/ ppm.
There have been some issue with Draft, but if this is the case here i dont know.
Do you use RedSDK HL ?
As then it can be just the "zoomlevel" before printing
In wireframe explode the viewport 1 time and delete the extra lines

Torfinn

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December 09, 2019, 10:12:20 AM
#4
For those English-readers following along that are curious and/or want to help, attached is an English-ized version of sauerkraut's PPM script.
After downloading, change the file extension from .txt to .ppm.  Then Open and insert it into your drawing file via the Parametric Part Script Editor.

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Alvin Gregorio
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December 09, 2019, 01:20:00 PM
#5
...
Today I have a table made of ppm profiles. I have to say that it's pretty quick to construct. See picture 1.
Then I went to the drawing palette and wanted to quickly create the 3 views. Upps what do I see in the palette? See picture 2.


I had the same (similar) thing happen to me, when using sauerkraut2018's PPM script.  I assume it is a Workplane issue; I'd like to see if Torfinn or Nikki or someone can work it out.
I used "Make Copy" a lot on his Parametric Symbol, including moving, rotating, etc.  I adjusted sauerkraut's-created Parameters as required.
Good job sauerkraut on the PPM script!; there is no way I could have done it.

I have a workaround, though.  Below you can see my satisfactory results.
I "Saved As a Copy..." the file.  Then in that new file, Exploded the Parametric Symbols one time (used "Select by.../Entity Type" to quickly select them).
Sauerkraut's PPM script didn't include the pads on the bottom of the legs; I created those myself the old-fashioned way.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 01:57:42 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
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* December 09, 2019, 02:10:09 PM
#6
The problem is that the "Wedge" is a tiny bit to short or should be moved a little bit downwards and thats the reason for why it makes the line in draft render that should not be there, it dont take away everything , but leave a tiny piece left.
The profile so get rotated and that is the reason for why it is on bottom at one side and top of the other
If i should have made this i would have made a Box, bigger than the edges on profile in all directions an subtracted that one after the profiles was rotated to correct angle, on both top and bottom side, then i would have been 100 % sure it cut away everything.
Or cut before rotating
In the end of ppm, i would have lifted it up so it stand in correct position for the top of Box or what the name in English are and the full Box stand on workplane

Torfinn

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December 09, 2019, 04:32:35 PM
#7
...
Hmmm, not bad, but the 2D profiles from the ppm are displayed. See picture 3.
...


Are you certain that you checked the box for Miter on both of those Parametric Symbol ends?  They look as if perhaps you did not.


It would be good if someone could edit the PPM script so that when even just one instance of the Parametric Symbol is inserted, and the Drafting Palette is used on that single object, it orients correctly in Drafting Palette.
Experimenting with the PPMs supplied as Symbols in the program, they work correctly in Drafting Palette-- even when the Parametric Symbols are moved and rotated.


Maybe it would be better to just use Viewports.  So as not to have to Explode the Parametric Symbols to get them to display correctly in Drafting Palette.
But if the supplied PPMs symbols work correctly in Drafting Palette, I have to think it is something in sauerkraut2018's particular script that is causing the issue.

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* December 09, 2019, 09:00:38 PM
#8
I am getting the same result. I had a similar problem when using the constraint method of creating parametric symbols.
I had to explode the part to see the correct results in the drafting palette.One of the main reasons I switched to ppm.

I tried adding a reference point but that didn't help.


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Nikki
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* December 09, 2019, 10:19:19 PM
#9
Hello everybody,

Thanks for your contributions. I answer in turn from top to bottom.
-----------------------------------------
Torfinn 1: Maybe you send wrong drawing / ppm.
No, it's the same drawing. I have cleaned up the drawing for the forum or made smaller. Maybe that's the reason.

Torfinn 1: Do you use RedSDK HL?
No, I use "GDI, Flicker free draw". Talking Mode "Hidden Line, Draw Hidden Line as Dashed, Suppressed Hidden Tangency Lines"
to create the views with the Drafting palette.

Torfinn 1: As then it can just be the "zoomlevel" before printing.
I have tagged all parts and created them with the Drafting Palette. Inserted on a sheet (A3), scale 0.1.

Torfinn 1: In wireframe explode the viewport 1 time and delete the extra lines.
That could be a solution. But then it is a stopgap or just a workaround for the real problem.
-----------------------------------------
Alvin Gregorio 1: ... is attached to an English version of sauerkraut's PPM script ...
Big thanks for the translation help. Did you make any changes?
-----------------------------------------
Alvin Gregorio 2: ... I assume it is a workplane issue; I'd like to see if you can ... Torfinn or Nikki
I did not change the work plane while inserting the individual profiles.
But I noticed that the profile lines are displayed after the second rotation.

Alvin Gregorio 2: ... Good job sauerkraut on the PPM script! ...
Thanks, I'm rarely praised for my work.
I return this praise to you, also your work looks very good.

Alvin Gregorio 2: ... but I have a workaround. ...
I went that way, too. I exported the table as a step and inserted again.
There was an error message: The step file is too big.
The phantom part also appears in the step file. As a solution I have now inserted the same profiles without angles, once exploded and cut with slice.
-----------------------------------------
Torfinn 2: The problem is that the "wedge" is a tiny bit to short or should it be a little bit downwards and that's the reason for why it
makes the line in the render that is not there, it does not take away everything, but leave a tiny piece of left.

The part is fine as long as you do not rotate it. Please try it out.

Torfinn 2: If I should have made this a box, bigger than the edges on profile ...
Good idea, then I have to change that in ppm, in every ppm I've written in the last few weeks.
Let's see if I find time for Christmas.

Torfinn 2: ... In the end of ppm, I have lifted it up so it stood in position for the top of box.
I think the part has to be turned to the right position anyway. That's why I did not change the position.
-----------------------------------------
Alvin Gregorio 3: Miter on both of those Parametric Symbol ends?
Yes, I have checked it several times.

Alvin Gregorio 3: It would be good if anyone could edit the PPM script ...
Yes, I agree. That would be very nice.

Alvin Gregorio 3: Maybe it would be better to just use Viewports. ... But if the supplied PPMs symbols work correctly in Drafting Palette, I have to think of it as something in sauerkraut2018's particular script that is causing the issue.
That's why I started this post.
-----------------------------------------

The reason for this contribution is essentially that a designer is always in need of time or is under time pressure.
With the ppm's that's a good approach and it's fun to create ppm's, if you have the time.

I'm looking forward to more posts, thanks.


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* December 09, 2019, 10:34:12 PM
#10
Like i try'd to say last nigth
Inside the ppm he make a wedge, (a triangle with thickness), and that wedge is just a tiny bit to small or not moved to correct Place.
If he add 2 mm extra on the Parametervalues heigth,length, width and move the wedge 1 mm in needed directions the cut will be perfect and then there will be no "lines" that show in renders.
There is nothing wrong with what we see, we do see how the profile actually looks like, in viewport or draft,but there is a tiny little part that not get subtracted, fix that as and the problem is solved.
In this ppm the cut is 45 degree, maybe add an option for cut in different angle's ??
And that Surkål can do very easy him self, change the wedge or use a box.

Torfinn

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* December 09, 2019, 10:54:29 PM
#11
I forgot :)
Surkål, think about it, what is the rest of you profile's, the main part, so lift the profiles up and use them for the subtract part

Torfinn

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* December 10, 2019, 12:00:50 AM
#12
Hi nikkipollard, hi Torfinn,

nikkipollard: I am getting the same result. I had a similar problem when using the constraint method of creating parametric symbols.
I had to explode the part to see the correct results in the drafting palette.One of the main reasons I switched to ppm.
I tried adding a reference point but that didn't help.

You wrote while I responded to the previous posts.

I think it could be due to the IF statements in the ppm? Maybe you can look at this part in the script again and improve?


Torfinn: Like i try'd to say last nigth
Inside the ppm he make a wedge, (a triangle with thickness), and that wedge is just a tiny bit to small or not moved to correct Place.
If he add 2 mm extra on the Parametervalues heigth,length, width and move the wedge 1 mm in needed directions the cut will be perfect and then there will be no "lines" that show in renders.
There is nothing wrong with what we see, we do see how the profile actually looks like, in viewport or draft,but there is a tiny little part that not get subtracted, fix that as and the problem is solved.
In this ppm the cut is 45 degree, maybe add an option for cut in different angle's ??
And that Surkål can do very easy him self, change the wedge or use a box.

Nice that you have answered again.
You could change the ppm. But remember that the calculations of the angles (tangens) then give a wrong result.
Here then would have to be entered an intermediate step?
I have to incorporate your suggestion into the script and test it.

Torfinn:
I forgot :)
Surkål, think about it, what is the rest of you profile's, the main part, so lift the profiles up and use them for the subtract part

Btw: Unfortunately, Google Translater can not translate "Surkål". "norwegian" sagt Google Translater, no more.

Unfortunately, I do not know what you mean. The best would be an example.


In summary:
It annoys me that the time saved with ppm's is lost again by the changes in the parts in TC.

If there is a solution or solutions, please post them. I would be very happy.

Thanks and best regards to you


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* December 10, 2019, 01:40:30 AM
#13
I am trying to look for things I don't do to see if I can figure it out
I haven't had luck yet.
I use if statements a lot without this problem.
I tried removing the output from the if statement - because I think it is unnecessary - the ppm still works and the drafting palette still gives issues.

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* December 10, 2019, 01:48:15 AM
#14
with regard to the drafting palette issues
I don't think there is anything wrong with your script
It seems that when I have more then one item in a ppm, I don't have this problem - possibly because the items are in a group.
Putting your "res" into a group seems to have fixed the problem
 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 03:05:55 AM by nikkipollard »

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* December 10, 2019, 02:33:00 AM
#15
Have you thought about using a BooleanIntersect to get the right shape?

dx1=D*tan(A1)
dx2=D*tan(A2)
p10=Polyline(Point(0,-D/2),Point(dx1,D/2),Point(L-dx2,D/2),
    Point(L,-D/2),Point(0,-D/2))
p11=Thickness(Move(p10,-L/2,0,-W/2),W)
p12=BooleanIntersect(p9,p11)

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December 10, 2019, 04:46:04 AM
#16
..,
Alvin Gregorio 1: ... is attached to an English version of sauerkraut's PPM script ...
Big thanks for the translation help. Did you make any changes?
...

I did not make any changes to your Parametric script other than translating to English almost all of the non-English terms.

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December 10, 2019, 06:11:35 AM
#17
with regard to the drafting palette issues
I don't think there is anything wrong with your script
It seems that when I have more then one item in a ppm, I don't have this problem - possibly because the items are in a group.
Putting your "res" into a group seems to have fixed the problem

Good job Nikki.

Yes, this seems to have resolved the PPM/Drafting_Palette issue.
For good measure, I created a Group (and Block, for experimentation's sake) to create the Drafting Palette Assembly.  That way anything I add or subtract (not to be confused with "Boolean Add" or "Boolean Subtract") to the full assembly gets updated in the Drafting Palette.
In the attached .zip-folder is my Drawing file; it is slightly too many bytes for not being .zipped for here-- probably because of the Part Tree being on for a while and/or the Drafting Palette objects.
______
I understand that Torfinn and sauerkraut have been going back-and-forth on what I have noted in the screen-capture below-- why this occurs; but I still do not understand.  Can someone please clarify.
______
For something like what sauerkraut is trying to achieve-- which he has done a good job at-- I am thinking a PPM that goes the other way:  Establish the length profile, making the length, width, thickness, and end-angles parameters, and  have a G3Fillet (Blend)parameter for the 4 long edges, the radii also being parameters.
I think even I could write that script; though it would take me hours when it would take one of you 30 minutes.

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* December 10, 2019, 07:52:43 AM
#18
Hello everybody,

Fun on the side: Help, I can not answer as fast as you write your posts. :-)

@Nikki:
For me, the IF instructions are also pretty new. I copied and changed it from another ppm.
I did not want any output in the IF statement, but I could not find another way for the ppm to work.

With your test.txt you have now shown me a good way. Thanks for that.

Nikki: ... drafting palette issues ... the items are in a group.
Your suggestion is good, but it takes time to test it.

Nikki: Have you thought about using a BooleanIntersect to get the right shape?

In fact, I changed the calculation of the angles so that I can enter the setting angle on the saw machine.
So not the section, but the angle of the residual material or the output.
See in my ppm: WinUmr1 = 90-Para9 (for example)

Problem: Phantom part - My problem solving with your help. Torfinn had suggested it earlier in the post.
I have added two points to the polylines of the two sections.
Point (-1, para3);
Point (-1.0);

This problem is solved and done.

@Alvin Gregorio:
Thanks for your translation and feedback.


What remains is the problem with the Drafting palette, here I have to work through the suggestion of Nikki.
Thanks again to you.

P.S. Too bad that not even more forum members are working on the ppm's. I think it would be worth it.

Alvin: Good job Nikki.
I can only confirm, but for all.

Alvin: Yes, this seems to have been resolved by the PPM / Drafting_Palette issue.
For good measure, I created a group (and block, for experimentation's sake) to create the Drafting Palette Assembly.

Yes. After my first tests, a group must be created in ppm. Then the profiles can be rotated arbitrarily.

Alvin: ... Can someone please clarify.
I can not explain.
Fun on the edge: But I also try to explain my wife from time to time.
A clever man once said who can explain a woman can also explain the world.
(Was it Einstein?)

Alvin: ... I think of a PPM that goes the other way: determine the length profile and set the parameters for length, width, thickness and end angle and have a G3Fillet (Blend) parameter for the 4 long edges, where the radii are also parameters.
Unfortunately, I do not understand what your plan is. Please, describe it in more detail. Maybe with a picture. Would be nice of you.

Alvin's picture: Why does this occur when the length parameter is of a certain value?
In this screen capture, that is 353.5534mm. If i increase or decrease by 0.02, this does not occur.
Unfortunately, I changed my original file (my mistake). Unfortunately, I can not understand the original anymore.


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* December 10, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
#19
"""
Torfinn:
I forgot :)
Surkål, think about it, what is the rest of you profile's, the main part, so lift the profiles up and use them for the subtract part

Btw: Unfortunately, Google Translater can not translate "Surkål". "norwegian" sagt Google Translater, no more.

"""
Surkål is Sauerkraut in Norwegian :)
What i wanted you to think about is the fact that you have a bigger "post/ Box/ leg's on each side of the profiles, where they should be welded together i assume in real world, there is also an horizontal beam at the top, this can be used to subract after you have lifted the profile/ support's up to correct position, you dont need to make the "wedge's" at all, as you already have something to use for making the correct cut in your profiles/ support.
They will not dissapear in a ppm like they by default do in TC, so you can still use the output on them in the final result.

I have a course/ class all this week, and by that i dont have time for making a ppm to explain, so i try to write it in words.

Torfinn

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December 10, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
#20
Hello everybody,
...
Alvin: ... For good measure, I created a Group (and Block, for experimentation's sake) to create the Drafting Palette Assembly.

Yes. After my first tests, a group must be created in ppm. Then the profiles can be rotated arbitrarily.
...

RE "After my first tests, a group must be created in ppm."

I was actually referring to an actual TurboCAD Group, within the Drawing space.  Within Modelspace.
A Block functions very much the same way.

When using either as the Drafting Palette object, we can add or remove entities (do not confuse with "Boolean Add" or "Boolean Subtract") and the Drafting Palette will update to show the addition or removal of those entities.
XRef (External Reference) insertions behave in the same manner.

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* December 11, 2019, 02:34:21 AM
#21
I assume groups in ppms work the same as groups in TC.
If you explode the ppm the groups are normal TC groups.

Be aware that thickened Polylines with curves in it don't always work as well as they did in this ppm.
You often get an error when trying to perform Boolean operations on them.
I see the example window turns them into surfaces and then performs Boolean operations.
That works but you need to remember to change other objects to surfaces too.
I try to use the G3 fillet tool instead. It is cumbersome but it works.
Another issue I have - I am not sure if others have found this. Arcs don't work if the centre point is at 0,0 - on my computer anyway.
So I usually draw  the whole polyline  5mm  away and then move it afterwards. I am not sure if others have that problem too. Arcs don't seem to work at all in my 32 bit version.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 03:10:16 AM by nikkipollard »

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Nikki
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December 11, 2019, 05:20:06 AM
#22
I assume groups in ppms work the same as groups in TC.
If you explode the ppm the groups are normal TC groups.
...

I just want to be clear on this, since this latest discussion started out on being about using the Drafting Palette with PPM objects.

What I'm trying to communicate regarding Groups (and Blocks) is best illustrated via an example:

>In replicating an approximation of sauerkraut's steel frame table, using Nikki's revision of the original ppm script, I inserted one instance of the ppm symbol, then used the Transform tools with the Keep Original option and/or the Selector Tool plus the Make Copy option.
>After almost all the parts were placed and rotated where I wanted them, I selected all of them and made them a Drafting Palette Assembly.
>All is good.
>"Whoops... I forgot a couple of objects; I'll add them to the model", which I did.
>Back in Drafting Palette, those newly inserted objects did not show up in my Drafting Palette Assembly.  In fact, Drafting Palette didn't even recognize them, as it did not prompt me for an update.
__________________
>I deleted the Drafting Palette Assembly from the Drafting Palette.
>I selected all the objects in Modelspace.
>I formatted them to be Group (and then again, as a Block... in the end, they behaved the same in Drafting Palette).  For thoroughness, I named the Group.
>In Drafting Palette, I inserted that Group as a Part (TurboCAD assigned it as a "Part", because the Group is a singular object).
>Worked great!
>With the added advantage that if I add more or remove objects to/within this Group, the Drafting Palette Part updates to include/exclude those!
_____________________
The same desirable behavior occurs with Blocks and External References.

____________
Lesson:  In the future, when creating Drafting Palette Assembly(s)/Parts(s), I will try to have the discipline to use Groups or Blocks for those, if not External References.

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Alvin Gregorio
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* December 11, 2019, 08:13:09 AM
#23
Hello everybody,

I do not want to repeat everything since my last post. With your help, all the problems could be solved.

I would like to thank you again for your great help.

Until the next problem and best regards
Sauerkraut aka Surkål  ;)

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