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Dreaming of KeyShot for TurboCAD
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August 23, 2019, 07:15:37 AM
Although I have done this model in TurboCAD and rendered with LightWorks with decent results the one here was modeled in Alibre and rendered in KeyShot. KeyShot is so easy to work with and gives exceptional results without much effort and certainly less time than LighgtWorks. It would sure be nice to have a KeyShot add-on for TurboCAD so one could link the KeyShot file with the model, as one can do with Alibre. I hope that the new owners of TurboCAD will consider it.


* August 23, 2019, 02:03:43 PM
#1
Don the globe assembly image is a stunning render. Well done presentation is always a winner. Yes lets hope IMSI are listening.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


August 23, 2019, 02:54:03 PM
#2
I agree.  This is vastly better than what I've seen with Lightworks.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* August 24, 2019, 05:58:16 AM
#3
Keyshot is way over priced  :P and for what.....

I I were dreaming  ;D it would be LightWorks Iray.
A powerful Cpu-Gpu NVIDIA Set up.
 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 09:27:43 AM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


October 03, 2019, 12:24:29 PM
#4
The attached image took me about 5-10 minutes to set up and about 5 minutes to render in KeyShot. All stock materials with a very minor tweak of roughness from 0.1 to 0.05. This is why I want to see TurboCAD get a KeyShot add-on. No postwork done on this image at all.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:01:21 PM by Don Cheke »

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October 03, 2019, 12:53:17 PM
#5
The attached image took me about 5-10 minutes to set up and about 5 minutes to render in KeyShot. All stock materials with a very minor tweak of roughness from 0.1 to 0.05. This is why I want to see TurboCAD get a KeyShot add-on. No postwork done on this image at all.

    I can't argue with the quality Don ... very nice indeed! 

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.


October 03, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
#6
Don, which version of Keyshot are you using?  Because the HD version is... doable... for results like this.  The Enterprise version, not so much.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* October 03, 2019, 01:42:16 PM
#7
If keyshot was cpu-gpu enabled and coupled with Nvidia then that would be a fantastic setup.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


October 03, 2019, 01:56:50 PM
#8
Don, which version of Keyshot are you using?  Because the HD version is... doable... for results like this.  The Enterprise version, not so much.


Jeff


Hi Jeff, Alibre Expert came with KeyShot CAD HD. I paid $1495.00 USD for Alibre Expert, I don't know how much of that they have to give to KeyShot. It would be interesting to know.


October 04, 2019, 09:53:14 AM
#9
Keyshot is retailing at $4395.  According to their own people.  Must be a cut down version folk are talking about here.

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October 05, 2019, 01:59:51 AM
#10
Keyshot is retailing at $4395.  According to their own people.  Must be a cut down version folk are talking about here.

The most expensive version of KeyShot I found is less than that, and their most popular version is even less expensive (but still a bundle).  Personally, I have little need for animation, but the Geometry Shaders sounds interesting and others may like the Python Scripting capability (listed in the expanded features list).

On the plus side, it seems that one can buy and keep a version, although a subscription model is available.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


October 05, 2019, 02:03:43 AM
#11
Hhmmm... their feature comparison chart lists "CPU-Based Real-time Ray Tracing".  Sort of obviates the need for high CUDA counts in GPUs.

https://www.keyshot.com/product-comparison/


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


October 06, 2019, 04:06:59 AM
#12
Here's a bunch of rendering engines with short overviews (3-4 paragraphs) of their capabilities, ease of use and pricing.  Most of them have subscription models, while others are fixed price.  Some of them are free.

They will not integrate into TurboCAD as do the Lightworks and RedSDK plugins, but they can provide different, or easier, results.

https://all3dp.com/1/best-3d-rendering-software/


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


October 06, 2019, 06:59:14 AM
#13
Here's a bunch of rendering engines with short overviews (3-4 paragraphs) of their capabilities, ease of use and pricing.  Most of them have subscription models, while others are fixed price.  Some of them are free.

They will not integrate into TurboCAD as do the Lightworks and RedSDK plugins, but they can provide different, or easier, results.

https://all3dp.com/1/best-3d-rendering-software/
Jeff


I have tried a few over time and the key for us TC users is we need something that can integrate, even if it is a stand-alone app. With Alibre-Keyshot, they are linked so that you can still update your model and the changes are seen in the KeyShot app window. This is probably because it is made as an add-on - in combination or with help of both programming teams.

Some of the render software I tried required mesh type models so one needed to export from TC in obj format or something like that. Converting to OBJ in TC was always problematic at best, in my opinion, so not an option. It also changes the model so any updating required restarting from scratch.

I had SW Visualize for a while and as a SW Plug-in is seemed okay but trying to import an STEP from TurboCAD was useless. It did not read the file well and so a user ran into all kinds of issues that made it useless for all intents and purposes.

In my current financial retired state, I think I would be willing to pay a max of $500 for TC to KeyShot plug-in. I will never use something that requires a subscription if at all possible. I learned that lesson subscribing to Adobe Creative Cloud, but that is another story for another day.


October 06, 2019, 07:17:04 AM
#14
Here is another render I did yesterday. The fridge was modeled in TC quite a while ago, without the control panel and graph (although it could have easily been). I exported to STEP and opened in Alibre. In Alibre I added the panel and graph, which would have been much easier in TC, and then I rendered in KeyShot. I really like the look and these are the kinds of results I would like to get right out of TurboCAD, as I have been going on about in this thread. :-)

I didn't add much detail to the graph since I didn't plan any close-ups, but I attached a screen capture just for here.


October 06, 2019, 10:20:55 AM
#15
Some excellent renders/modelling there Don...

I think I looked at Keyshot a few years ago.... I take it that the setup uses HDRI for light and reflections...

RedSDK if setup well can also give good results using HDRI's also:

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


October 06, 2019, 10:42:51 AM
#16
Some excellent renders/modelling there Don...

I think I looked at Keyshot a few years ago.... I take it that the setup uses HDRI for light and reflections...

RedSDK if setup well can also give good results using HDRI's also:


Thanks Darrel, Yes, it uses HDRI. I only know of 2 or 3 folks that can use TC RedSDK, you being one of them. My attempts with it always made me feel like screaming, so I just gave up. The learning curve just seems insurmountable. You obviously have a gift for it and perhaps it seems simple to you now. The thing with keyshot is a new user can get decent results out of the box without much effort. It also has more to offer, like most rendering software, if one wants to delve deeper, like you obviously like to do.

Great render you posted!


October 06, 2019, 10:58:10 AM
#17

Thanks Darrel, Yes, it uses HDRI. I only know of 2 or 3 folks that can use TC RedSDK, you being one of them. My attempts with it always made me feel like screaming, so I just gave up. The learning curve just seems insurmountable. You obviously have a gift for it and perhaps it seems simple to you now. The thing with keyshot is a new user can get decent results out of the box without much effort. It also has more to offer, like most rendering software, if one wants to delve deeper, like you obviously like to do.

Great render you posted!

I think we need to get something together for materials, luminances and environments for us all to test and maybe offer as an addon for all the TC users. The cost of many of the render engines like Keyshot are down to them doing all this work for users to get fast and accurate results and often this is where some of the high cost comes in. RedSDK is a very raw but capable engine but the frustrations stop many from using it.... we could end this if enough of us can help with this...

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* October 06, 2019, 11:32:03 AM
#18

Thanks Darrel, Yes, it uses HDRI. I only know of 2 or 3 folks that can use TC RedSDK, you being one of them. My attempts with it always made me feel like screaming, so I just gave up. The learning curve just seems insurmountable. You obviously have a gift for it and perhaps it seems simple to you now. The thing with keyshot is a new user can get decent results out of the box without much effort. It also has more to offer, like most rendering software, if one wants to delve deeper, like you obviously like to do.

Great render you posted!

I think we need to get something together for materials, luminances and environments for us all to test and maybe offer as an addon for all the TC users. The cost of many of the render engines like Keyshot are down to them doing all this work for users to get fast and accurate results and often this is where some of the high cost comes in. RedSDK is a very raw but capable engine but the frustrations stop many from using it.... we could end this if enough of us can help with this...

Hi Daz  :)
I agree but IMSI needs to do their share as well > just a guess  :P but invest in upgrading redsdk and better programming.
How many years did I invest in the Redsdk fiasco.
I still say  "Iray all the way"  ;D Lightworks is a smooth operator  :)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 11:34:08 AM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* October 06, 2019, 04:14:49 PM
#19
SharkCAD Pro, also now owned by IMSI, has Keyshot link integration as well as default integrated Lightworks, and it also exports to a facet format, .fac, which is interesting because it's plain text coordinate list, human-readable, apparently devised by Lockheed.  Tim Olson, IMSI's CAD director, and creator of Shark/TC Mac, was at Lockheed....I mention that because the .fac format is also the native format of Electric Images, a rendering and animation suite widely used in film as well as product design and presentation.  It's USD 895, which seems reasonable considering the animation, and EI's site has a very impressive gallery.  The learning curve for anything new is more and more uninspiring as I get older though.    I guess choice of renderer comes down to how easy it is to use, how reliable the interoperability is, and, like TC itself, bang for buck.  The linking and auto-updating/refresh wouldn't be a huge consideration for me because I've almost never rendered for documentation and presentation until after the modelling's finished.

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* October 06, 2019, 05:49:00 PM
#20

Thanks Darrel, Yes, it uses HDRI. I only know of 2 or 3 folks that can use TC RedSDK, you being one of them. My attempts with it always made me feel like screaming, so I just gave up. The learning curve just seems insurmountable. You obviously have a gift for it and perhaps it seems simple to you now. The thing with keyshot is a new user can get decent results out of the box without much effort. It also has more to offer, like most rendering software, if one wants to delve deeper, like you obviously like to do.

Great render you posted!

I think we need to get something together for materials, luminances and environments for us all to test and maybe offer as an addon for all the TC users. The cost of many of the render engines like Keyshot are down to them doing all this work for users to get fast and accurate results and often this is where some of the high cost comes in. RedSDK is a very raw but capable engine but the frustrations stop many from using it.... we could end this if enough of us can help with this...

Hi Daz  :)
I agree but IMSI needs to do their share as well > just a guess  :P but invest in upgrading redsdk and better programming.
How many years did I invest in the Redsdk fiasco.
I still say  "Iray all the way"  ;D Lightworks is a smooth operator  :)

Darrel, these are great ideas guys, Id love to use redsdk and get great results, but the learning curve is huge. Darrel can that Texture size Calculator be converted for the current Lightworks version?

Id love to see Ligtworks IRay included in the V2020 platinum addition.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


October 08, 2019, 03:08:31 AM
#21


Darrel, these are great ideas guys, Id love to use redsdk and get great results, but the learning curve is huge. Darrel can that Texture size Calculator be converted for the current Lightworks version?

Id love to see Ligtworks IRay included in the V2020 platinum addition.

The learning curve is huge, well, as I have said with Keyshot they have done the presets to get good results fast. Having setups for RedSDK as I have mentioned to mimic the Keyshot results would be a way forward.

The Texture size calc for Lightworks.... you mean the Sheen Calc? The big issue I have with Lightworks in Lighting is nowhere near as good as RedSDK and luminances have bugs. Is it worth it when RedSDK creates more accurate results with the right input?

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


October 08, 2019, 11:57:44 AM
#22
Is it worth it when RedSDK creates more accurate results with the right input?

In a word, yes.

I have had to produce photorealistic images for several projects and the best results, by far, used RedSDK.

That being said, Don's examples with Keyshot are even better.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


October 08, 2019, 12:30:36 PM
#23
I take it that the setup uses HDRI for light and reflections...

I looked further into this today and although you can use HDRI, you can also set up independent lighting and tweak until your heart's content. This example uses an environment plus an area light applied to a plane and directed to the chairs. I think there would be enough in KeyShot to keep even Darrell happy trying to achieve perfectly lit scenes (without the headaches of RedSDK). To top it off, there is all kinds of documentation and help available.

At any rate, I will stop trying to promote this, since I doubt IMSI will even consider it since they have already spent so much time and energy on Red.


* October 08, 2019, 12:37:36 PM
#24
I take it that the setup uses HDRI for light and reflections...

I looked further into this today and although you can use HDRI, you can also set up independent lighting and tweak until your heart's content. This example uses an environment plus an area light applied to a plane and directed to the chairs. I think there would be enough in KeyShot to keep even Darrell happy trying to achieve perfectly lit scenes (without the headaches of RedSDK). To top it off, there is all kinds of documentation and help available.

At any rate, I will stop trying to promote this, since I doubt IMSI will even consider it since they have already spent so much time and energy on Red.

Nice Don,
Does KS do Caustics?

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


October 08, 2019, 01:06:38 PM
#25
Does KS do Caustics?

Thanks Dean. Yes, it does caustics.

I have a couple things I want to try 1) something with led lights or something along that line and 2) a glass or something like that will show caustics. After I figure it out I will post so you can see.


* October 08, 2019, 04:13:01 PM
#26
I agree 100% with this. Keyshot is just plain awesome! Fast to use and produces eye popping results.

I sugested this Aug of 2018 in a wishlist thread:
https://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,22868.msg138242.html#msg138242

I dont care that keyshot is expensive, I personally think that the price is worth it. While I have gotten great results with light works, it is very time consuming!!! 

Edit: Someone who has never rendered anything before can learn to use and render with the same quality Don is posting in an hour easily using keyshot!!!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 04:17:31 PM by Kevin Taylor »

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* October 08, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
#27


Darrel, these are great ideas guys, Id love to use redsdk and get great results, but the learning curve is huge. Darrel can that Texture size Calculator be converted for the current Lightworks version?

Id love to see Ligtworks IRay included in the V2020 platinum addition.



The learning curve is huge, well, as I have said with Keyshot they have done the presets to get good results fast. Having setups for RedSDK as I have mentioned to mimic the Keyshot results would be a way forward.

The Texture size calc for Lightworks.... you mean the Sheen Calc? The big issue I have with Lightworks in Lighting is nowhere near as good as RedSDK and luminances have bugs. Is it worth it when RedSDK creates more accurate results with the right input?

In the absence of a good redsdk tutorial anything that can improve lightworks cant be bad hence the sheen calculator, but Daz if you reckon it not suitable then I will take your word for it.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


October 08, 2019, 07:29:34 PM
#28
Does KS do Caustics?

This one is for you Dean. My first try with glass, liquid and caustics in this app. I see some issues that I am not sure how to alleviate at this time in the learning curve, but hope to figure out at some point. Like other apps, render times get longer when using caustics, etc.. This render took 47:46 min 3750 x 2100 at 300dpi (100 samples). EDIT: I added the profile so you could see what it looked like. In this latest version of KeyShot one is supposed to make the liquid intersect into the glass so no planer faces touch which would show the material bleed through that we are all aware of in rendering.

For comparison sake, the water glass I did in TC2015 and rendered with Red. The snifter was rendered in LightWorks.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 07:50:59 PM by Don Cheke »

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* October 08, 2019, 08:00:03 PM
#29
1st class renders Don.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 08:12:26 PM
#30
Does KS do Caustics?

This one is for you Dean. My first try with glass, liquid and caustics in this app. I see some issues that I am not sure how to alleviate at this time in the learning curve, but hope to figure out at some point. Like other apps, render times get longer when using caustics, etc.. This render took 47:46 min 3750 x 2100 at 300dpi (100 samples). EDIT: I added the profile so you could see what it looked like. In this latest version of KeyShot one is supposed to make the liquid intersect into the glass so no planer faces touch which would show the material bleed through that we are all aware of in rendering.

For comparison sake, the water glass I did in TC2015 and rendered with Red. The snifter was rendered in LightWorks.

Thanks Don.
There always something about a LightWorks render that just captures me. I can't quite explain it.
LightWorks somehow has a nice way of artistically simulating realistic objects.
The Keyshot renders are crystal clear though.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


October 08, 2019, 10:25:09 PM
#31
... My first try with glass, liquid and caustics in this app...  In this latest version of KeyShot one is supposed to make the liquid intersect into the glass so no planer faces touch which would show the material bleed through that we are all aware of in rendering.

So, is the fluid overlapping glass technique typical for rendering, or only for Keyshot?  Because that might explain the weird artifacts I had with the copper band touching the glass in an earlier version of this image.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


October 09, 2019, 06:33:07 AM
#32
So, is the fluid overlapping glass technique typical for rendering, or only for Keyshot?
Jeff

I had never tried to overlap in LightWorks until now and it seems to work just the same as in the later version of KeyShot. Here is a quick trial. I plan to work at this image some more today but I thought I would show the result so far. This is a TC LightWorks Quality Raytrace render.


October 09, 2019, 08:57:21 AM
#33
Okay, last one with TC LightWorks Quality Raytrace render. Tweaked just a bit in Photoshop.


October 09, 2019, 10:17:48 AM
#34
Okay, last one with TC LightWorks Quality Raytrace render. Tweaked just a bit in Photoshop.

Very nice Don, very nice indeed.    8)
Personally, I'll keep dreaming of Keyshot.
LightWorks has plenty enough for my needs, and, for my bank balance.   :)

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.


* October 09, 2019, 12:57:03 PM
#35
What did you tweak in photoshop was it the IMSI design label?

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


October 09, 2019, 01:35:15 PM
#36
What did you tweak in photoshop was it the IMSI design label?

Hi Darryl,

In PhotoShop I applied an Unsharp Mask filter, a Yellow Boost Hue/Saturation adjustment (50% Opacity and a Midtones Darker Levels adjustment (34% Opacity). Added signature.

The original is attached. You can see that my tweaks are subtle but do enhance it a bit, IMHO.

The logo is a wrapped image set as a bump map to mimic engraving.


* October 12, 2019, 07:45:45 AM
#37
Okay, last one with TC LightWorks Quality Raytrace render. Tweaked just a bit in Photoshop.

You're an artist at heart, Don  :)
As  I said before, there's just something about, using LightWorks......like fun :)
attached is a screen grab.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


October 12, 2019, 08:11:40 AM
#38
Okay, last one with TC LightWorks Quality Raytrace render. Tweaked just a bit in Photoshop.

You're an artist at heart, Don  :)
As  I said before, there's just something about, using LightWorks......like fun :)
attached is a screen grab.

Thanks Dean. Your goblet (I think that is the style of glass) looks great.