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Cannot Draw Concinnity Handle
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* September 01, 2018, 01:27:05 PM
I am trying to draw and render a Concinnity faucet handle since they are out of business and I might try to have one made by machine shop or 3D Printing.

My problem is that I cannot attach the arms smoothly to the handle base.  I have included the arm and upper profile in the attached TC2016 drawing along with embedded jpg’s of the handle.

If you look at the elevation jpg, the upper base profile seems to be rounded, but the plan view shows that the base is squared off between handles.

I can profile and spin the base.  Then I subtracted a squared off reverse profile from the 4 quadrants to get a “rounded square”.
The arms, however, are giving me the problem.  If I profile them, when I spin them I get a self intersecting error because the upper part and the lower half are not symmetrical.  I tried spinning the upper and lower halves, cutting them along the axis and connecting both halves.  Still not a smooth blend.

Have coped with this for 2 weeks now and cannot come up with a workable solution. 
Thoughts??

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* September 01, 2018, 02:00:15 PM
#1
Can you post an image of that it should look like, or post a link to a website with images of the tap.   The images in your drawing were not embedded, so didn't come with the file.

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* September 02, 2018, 05:09:41 AM
#2
Sorry, I thought the jpg's would come thru with the drawing.

Tried 3 time to attach the pictures, but apparently I am running into a size restriction. 

Anyway, I place the jpg's in a Dropbox public folder.  The links are:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pu890r5ffvwf5j1/Handle_1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjem6zwv4ef7973/Handle_2.jpg?dl=0

Hope this works

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* September 02, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
#3
I had a play, but being honest,  the blending is not as good as I hoped.

Anyway, attached is my take on it,  but I don't know if it is anywhere close it is to the actual shape.  The four green profiles are lofted, the rest are revolved, and when added, it is blended at 7/8".

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* September 02, 2018, 03:36:27 PM
#4
My 2 bits; I saw this as a Revolve situation, with Fillet Edges blend.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 03, 2018, 06:11:24 AM
#5
Andy & John,

Thanks to both of you.  I think that I can work my way thru this now!

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* September 03, 2018, 01:38:38 PM
#6
I guess I spoke too soon.

I spun the handle and base and then did a 3D add. 

However, I am having a problem with the fillet blend  Each time I try to select the intersection I get an error.  Also, not familiar with the blend procedure.

Would appreciate some guidance on this.  I am working in TC2016.

Thanks


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* September 03, 2018, 01:57:19 PM
#7
I guess I spoke too soon.

I spun the handle and base and then did a 3D add. 

However, I am having a problem with the fillet blend  Each time I try to select the intersection I get an error.  Also, not familiar with the blend procedure.

Would appreciate some guidance on this.  I am working in TC2016.

Thanks


Make the handle long enough to extend into the base a little distance before 3D-Adding. Then use the Fillet Edges tool.

Henry H

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* September 03, 2018, 08:21:22 PM
#8
I guess I spoke too soon.

I spun the handle and base and then did a 3D add. 

However, I am having a problem with the fillet blend  Each time I try to select the intersection I get an error.  Also, not familiar with the blend procedure.

Would appreciate some guidance on this.  I am working in TC2016.

Thanks

Were your profiles "closed" like mine? If not, you're creating a hollow spin and the added parts won't Blend the shell. Use the "Use Compound profile" option with the Revolve tool.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 08:24:47 PM by John R »

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PM
#9
Thanks John, closing the profiles worked.

I do have a question about filleting.  I noticed that fillet blending was referenced by Andy and John.  One of the options on my TC2016 fillet tool is blend edges with "points defining fillet radius".  Is this what you are referencing or is just straight out filleting? If the former, exactly how does that work in this instance.

A second question.  I don't have the lightworks add-in for my TC2016 and would like to render the drawing.  I tried to save the drawing to TC17 in several "save as" formats, but none seem to open with TC17 without a filter error.  Is there a compatible format?  I tried the TC19 and autocad formats, but that didn't work.

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* September 05, 2018, 10:26:40 PM
#10
1.  I used the default "Fillet Edges" option.

2.  I would try saving as DWG. Click on the "Setup" button in the "Save As" dialog and choose "AutoCAD 2007/2009" as the format. That should open in TurboCAD Version 17.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 06, 2018, 05:18:56 AM
#11
A second question.  I don't have the lightworks add-in for my TC2016 and would like to render the drawing.

Just curious.   Why not render in 2016 RedSDK.

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* September 06, 2018, 10:35:57 AM
#12
John
Thanks again for the response.  Tried several saved formats and none of them loaded into TC17.  Even cutting and pasting was a problem and gave various filter missing errors.  In fact, it seemed that each time I tried cut and paste, I lost some layers.  Don't know why.

Andy H.
Did not try too much with RedSDK.  The brass, when rendered, looked too orange.  I've worked more with lightworks, although I find it to be very complicated and confusing.  I like the rendering in TC17 after overcoming the problems listed above.

I may bite the bullet and buy the add-in.  Disappointed that Turbocad did not include this in the package.

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* September 06, 2018, 12:48:08 PM
#13
This is the DWG file I saved in TurboCAD 2016 (version 23.2, 61.2) and it opened in TurboCAD V17 (version 17.2, 59.1).

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


September 06, 2018, 03:52:26 PM
#14
TC2016 RedSDK materials, reflections and lighting setup....
Very capable once setup correctly...  ;)




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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 06, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
#15
TC2016 RedSDK materials, reflections and lighting setup....
Very capable once setup correctly...  ;)

Lovely.

Henry H

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September 07, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
#16
TC2016 RedSDK materials, reflections and lighting setup....
Very capable once setup correctly...  ;)

Dang... wish I had a tutorial on how to do this.  I've had some good results with RedSDK, but they were pure luck (and didn't translate to subsequent TC versions).


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* September 07, 2018, 03:59:54 PM
#17
TC2016 RedSDK materials, reflections and lighting setup....
Very capable once setup correctly...  ;)

Looks great. Now you need some Hot & Cold caps, etc.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 07, 2018, 08:38:36 PM
#18
Darrel,
Loved the rendering.  Can you attach the dwg so I can investigate and learn?  Any tips would also be appreciated.

John,
Could not save file as a dwg in my TC2016 and open it in TC17 without error.  Also couldn't drag and drop.  Had a power outage and when I rebooted TC2016 I got an error msg.  Now the program seems to be operating properly. I think the original file was corrupted somehow.

Thanks to all.


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* September 07, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
#19
I would download another copy of the DWG and open it in TurboCAD V17. Don't open it in TurboCAD 2016.

In TurboCAD 2016, what "Build" is shown in "Help / About"? Maybe the program needs an update.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 09:12:48 PM by John R »

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 08, 2018, 06:16:57 AM
#20
That's gorgeous, Daz   :)

"Very capable once setup correctly...  ;)"

The same goes for LightWorks.

You know me, I couldn't resist doing a LightWorks render.
Thanks for posting the drawing, JR
Next one will have the Hot and Cold  ;D

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* September 08, 2018, 07:05:22 AM
#21
FYI - The hot and cold caps are embossed brass buttons that insert into the top opening via an o ring.

Out of curiosity, I sense that Turbocader's are always on the lookout for geometric items that they can draw and render.

When working with a real item as the Concinnity handle, how do others work out the drawing?

I have been using digital calipers where I can measure and also imported photos into TC and tried to measure curves and angles to scale.  The Concinnity handle was a problem because my photos were somewhat skewed and the left arm not the same TC dimensions as the right arm, etc..

Just curious!

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* September 08, 2018, 09:05:43 AM
#22
FYI - The hot and cold caps are embossed brass buttons that insert into the top opening via an o ring.

Out of curiosity, I sense that Turbocader's are always on the lookout for geometric items that they can draw and render.

When working with a real item as the Concinnity handle, how do others work out the drawing?

I have been using digital calipers where I can measure and also imported photos into TC and tried to measure curves and angles to scale.  The Concinnity handle was a problem because my photos were somewhat skewed and the left arm not the same TC dimensions as the right arm, etc..

Just curious!

I use pretty much the same technique. And often I adjust the scale of the imported photo and trace it.

Henry H
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 09:07:34 AM by Henry Hubich »

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September 08, 2018, 10:19:06 AM
#23
Game on Dean... lovely render...

My test here in TC2018 Lightworks to get close to the quality/settings as RedSDK....
The Brass Material in Lightworks I used physically correct values in the "Glossy Metal" Shader for the Refraction and Absorption values using the refractiveindex.info website and the diffuse to add the laquered brass effect over the top...

Knute971...

Yes I also use the method of using photos and physically measuring a product if possible...

« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 10:22:28 AM by Darrel Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 11, 2018, 04:12:50 PM
#24
FYI - The hot and cold caps are embossed brass buttons that insert into the top opening via an o ring.

Out of curiosity, I sense that Turbocader's are always on the lookout for geometric items that they can draw and render.

When working with a real item as the Concinnity handle, how do others work out the drawing?

I have been using digital calipers where I can measure and also imported photos into TC and tried to measure curves and angles to scale.  The Concinnity handle was a problem because my photos were somewhat skewed and the left arm not the same TC dimensions as the right arm, etc..

Just curious!

I use an old 'General' 723 caliper sometimes.

Is this button close enough?

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 12, 2018, 10:10:10 AM
#25
The button is domed and doesn't have the Concinnity logos

I have been trying to attach photos, but for some reason the post stalls even though I have reduced the image size.

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* September 12, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
#26
Sorry, I noticed that my response again did not include the jpg.

Tried again, but the 357 kb jpg just stalls the posting and all I get is a gray screen.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 10:16:20 AM by knute971 »

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* September 12, 2018, 10:37:43 AM
#27
Check your image extension; is it "JPG" or "JPEG"? The pictures you posted in Dropbox were JPEG. The forum doesn't have JPEG in the list of allowed formats.

This is what I found for a button image on the 'net. That's why I added the logo. My cap is slightly domed; just a guesstimate.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 12, 2018, 11:38:50 AM
#28
The pictures were saved out of Photoshop as JPG's.  Tried again to post the pictures as png.  They still did not go through!

Gave up and posted them to Dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bg788cfl0uxsazc/Concinnity%20Button1.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0uzwxozzkrwmjg/Concinnity%20Button2.png?dl=0

BTW, where did you get the photo?  My handle has a serrated ring at the bottom that slides into the shower stem.  Ours has stripped.  Maybe this might be a replacement?

The handles are slightly different for the shower and the faucets.  The shower handle is .567" OD and .4275" ID.  The serrations are more difficult to gauge since they are  stripped, but a 3/8", 13 tooth, box wrench allows us to run the shower.  Not very elegant, but it works until I find another option.  Unfortunately, we have 2 Concinnity shower faucets and 3 sink faucets.   Repair parts are difficult to find since they are out of business.

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* September 12, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
#29
There's a limit to the file size that can be posted, even though the Attachment restrictions say any size is good. Somewhere between 3 & 4 MB's is the limit.

I found pictures on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/bhp/concinnity-faucet
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 12:03:34 PM by John R »

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 13, 2018, 07:56:30 AM
#30
"Game on Dean  :)... lovely render...

My test here in TC2018 Lightworks to get close to the quality/settings as RedSDK....
The Brass Material in Lightworks I used physically correct values in the "Glossy Metal" Shader for the Refraction and Absorption values using the refractiveindex.info website and the diffuse to add the laquered brass effect over the top...

Knute971...

Yes I also use the method of using photos and physically measuring a product if possible..."


Cool Daz  :)

Attached is my attempt to capture the "ambience" in the reference photo that K posted above.  ;D

Had to adjust the physical properties some, probably due to the RSE.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* September 13, 2018, 09:16:43 AM
#31
John R.

The pictures, both as jpg and png's, were well below size limits.  Even the ones that you posted from Drop box total 828 KB total.  For some reason, my postings as jpg or png's just don't go regardless of size.

In fact, the size restrictions posted for the website are confusing!  "maximum total size 999999999KB, maximum individual size 999999999KB".
I get a headache counting 9's.

Thanks for the Concinnity link in eBay, but I think that the brass handle is gone, only the nickel or pewter are listed.  I do see a number of ceramic cartridges that might work with my faucets.  Thanks again.

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* September 13, 2018, 09:29:46 AM
#32
Dean,

I have been trying to get a decent rendering either with my TC17 and lightworks or TC2016 with Redsdk, but cannot reach the level of sophistication that have been demonstrated here.

I would appreciate any guidance the board could give me in either format.  When I look at the multiple parameters I really can't get a logical approach since there are too many things to change and they all seem to be in a different language.  Trying to change one parameter at a time is useless, frustrating and time consuming.

I also like Darrel's background environment, but have not the proper selection.

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* September 13, 2018, 11:38:44 AM
#33
Dean,

I have been trying to get a decent rendering either with my TC17 and lightworks or TC2016 with Redsdk, but cannot reach the level of sophistication that have been demonstrated here.

I would appreciate any guidance the board could give me in either format.  When I look at the multiple parameters I really can't get a logical approach since there are too many things to change and they all seem to be in a different language.  Trying to change one parameter at a time is useless, frustrating and time consuming.

I also like Darrel's background environment, but have not the proper selection.

Few mortals can. I cannot.

Henry H

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* September 13, 2018, 12:56:20 PM
#34
Unable to Quote.

Concinnity Button1.png = 7,425KB
Concinnity Button2.png = 2,576KB

The Button1 image that I got from your Dropbox was 7.25MB; way too big for the Forum. The second (smaller) image (2.51MB) will make it on its own, but not together.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* September 14, 2018, 04:33:41 AM
#35
Henry H.

I can recommend an excellent book -- H. Hubich's, "Photorealism in Turbocad"

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* September 14, 2018, 07:50:59 AM
#36
John R.

My bad.  I copied the links to the original jpg's.  The condensed ones were in the same folder!

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September 20, 2018, 07:25:58 AM
#37

Cool Daz  :)

Attached is my attempt to capture the "ambience" in the reference photo that K posted above.  ;D

Had to adjust the physical properties some, probably due to the RSE.

Very impressive Dean  :o .... Some bump mapping in the material there...

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 20, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
#38
Henry H.

I can recommend an excellent book -- H. Hubich's, "Photorealism in Turbocad"

Yeah, I read it ;-)  Pretty thorough coverage of the material properties that were available in TCad v8, but says  almost nothing about illumination.

Henry H

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