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2D & 3D positions are not the same, some views are not 2D, bottom isometric view
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* November 12, 2014, 10:03:17 AM
Five years ago I started with TurboCAD making a 2D circuit. I have recently modified this 2D view with a new design. I notice that some objects (especially filled circles show the wrong position in 2D. If I move to 3D, the positions are OK. Is there an offset command I accidently used?

On this same drawing, I don't see anything but a line in left and right view, but I see many lines in front and back view. I am concerned what this means. Obviously, I have been working mostly in top view with this drawing. I can't seem to pick out what is wrong in isometric views.

In regard to views, There are now eight isometric views. All are top isometric. I have orbit to see bottom isometric views. Am I missing something regarding view bottom isometric? ???
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 07:24:41 AM by bach911 »

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram


* November 13, 2014, 08:24:33 AM
#1
Five years ago I started with TurboCAD making a 2D circuit. I have recently modified this 2D view with a new design. I notice that some objects (especially filled circles show the wrong position in 2D. If I move to 3D, the positions are OK. Is there an offset command I accidently used?

I wasn't able to find any such discrepancies in your drawing -- probably because I didn't know where to look.

On this same drawing, I don't see anything but a line in left and right view, but I see many lines in front and back view. I am concerned what this means. Obviously, I have been working mostly in top view with this drawing. I can't seem to pick out what is wrong in isometric views.

When I select everything in your drawing (Ctrl+A), the Inspector Bar shows that Size Z is .003 mm. If I set that to zero, the front view becomes a single line, which is what it should be.

In regard to views, There are now eight isometric views. All are top isometric. I have orbit to see bottom isometric views. Am I missing something regarding view bottom isometric? ???

I see only four isometric views, and they are indeed all "top" isometric. Regrettably, TCad does not offer built-in bottom isometric views.

Henry H

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* November 13, 2014, 10:50:54 AM
#2
First, thank you for your reply.

Most of the black filled circles are wrong in 2D. I and using the Inspector bar. I filled the lower left circle in red. In 2D the lower left red circle Pos X = 435.84 mm and Pos Y = 214.224 mm. In 3D pos X = 0.8 mm and Pos Y = 4.89. 3D is correct if you look at the ruler. When I switch from 3D to 2D and select a second object, I get the warning "Selecting the object in the 2D mode changes the drawing's WorkPlane. Do you want to continue?" There is no such warning in 3D. Why would the WorkPlane change since everything (thanks to you) is on the same plane.

Once I removed "Keep aspect ratio", I was OK. Thanks again.

I miss-stated. I should of said there are 4 top isometric and 4 top dimetric views. The addition of the dimetric views are welcome, but I would rather of had the bottom isometric views now.

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram


November 13, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
#3
...
Most of the black filled circles are wrong in 2D. I and using the Inspector bar. I filled the lower left circle in red. In 2D the lower left red circle Pos X = 435.84 mm and Pos Y = 214.224 mm. In 3D pos X = 0.8 mm and Pos Y = 4.89. 3D is correct if you look at the ruler. When I switch from 3D to 2D and select a second object, I get the warning "Selecting the object in the 2D mode changes the drawing's WorkPlane. Do you want to continue?" There is no such warning in 3D. Why would the WorkPlane change since everything (thanks to you) is on the same plane.
...

Sounds to me that all you need to do is the typical:
  • Select All
  • Workplane by World*
  • Place on Workplane*
If this is a 2D drawing-- an meant to remain a 2D drawing-- always stay in "Workplane by World".  And don't toggle your Selector Mode to 3D; leave toggled to 2D, or "2D/3D Depending on Selected Object and Space Mode".

-Alvin


*Depending on the Workspace Configuration you are using,
  • The Command "Workplane by World" should/might be in the Workspace Menu up in the Menu Bar, and/or in a Local Menu PopUp Toolbar; and
  • The "Place on Workplane" Command should/might be in the Format or the Modify menu, up in the Menu Bar.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 03:45:16 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* November 13, 2014, 01:20:25 PM
#4
Thank you

I was working on the false assumption that you could work in 2D or 3D and obtain the the same results.

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram


November 13, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
#5
Thank you

I was working on the false assumption that you could work in 2D or 3D and obtain the the same results.

You can, but things tend to go awry-- working in 3D Selector mode on a 2D only drawing.

We've had many, many, Users post problems and incomprehensions in regards to this over the years; including myself, my first few years of TurboCADding.

I (we) know how this happens.  It's a bit cumbersome to explain.
It's about Workplanes, and inadvertently creating and drawing Objects on unintended Workplanes (User Coordinate Systems); even Workplanes (UCS) that are on the same plane as the World Workplane, but a different Workplane (UCS).  Like I say... it can be more than a bit confusing and cumbersome to explain.

Let's just say that-- when working with a 2D only drawing-- it's best to keep the Selector in 2D Selector mode, or that other, "2D/3D Depending on Selected Object and Space Mode" mode.

-Alvin

« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 01:37:18 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* November 14, 2014, 01:59:48 AM
#6
Thank you very much for the explanation. Understanding the underlying reason why it is best to stay in 2D selector helps me to remember to do so. It also calms my concerns what issues I might have working with 3D, since I have been doing so for a few years.

I have a tendency make interpretations that are counter to what most people would naturally do correctly. An example is the anti spam question "what number is between one and three". The first time I posted I answered "2" instead of "two" and kept wondering why the system was unhappy with me.

Again Thanks :)

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram


* November 14, 2014, 11:50:01 AM
#7
First, thank you for your reply.

Most of the black filled circles are wrong in 2D. I and using the Inspector bar. I filled the lower left circle in red. In 2D the lower left red circle Pos X = 435.84 mm and Pos Y = 214.224 mm. In 3D pos X = 0.8 mm and Pos Y = 4.89. 3D is correct if you look at the ruler. When I switch from 3D to 2D and select a second object, I get the warning "Selecting the object in the 2D mode changes the drawing's WorkPlane. Do you want to continue?" There is no such warning in 3D. Why would the WorkPlane change since everything (thanks to you) is on the same plane.

Once I removed "Keep aspect ratio", I was OK. Thanks again.

I miss-stated. I should of said there are 4 top isometric and 4 top dimetric views. The addition of the dimetric views are welcome, but I would rather of had the bottom isometric views now.

Un-less I'm missing something here > Bottom isometric > by default is activated by Alt+down arrow.
It sounds to me as if you want to be in 3d selector mode while working with 2d objects.The key is understanding how the workplanes function > when to use? and not to use? and what happens? with different 3d selector settings. These different settings are used for different situations,so discussing them in "general" terms imho is a bit mis leading..
I think Don Cheke has a tutorial on workplanes. I know nothing about it or how in-depth it is but I'm sure it's very helpful. http://www.textualcreations.ca/
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 12:10:22 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (NO Redsdk Plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


* November 14, 2014, 01:55:38 PM
#8
Dean, Alt + Down Arrow activates the Bottom orthographic view.

Henry H

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* November 14, 2014, 02:47:18 PM
#9
Thank you Henry,
 :)I knew that I was missing something. I should of read that more carefully. Is there even such a thing as a "bottom isometric"? Wouldn't it be a bottom Ortho view with a little perspective.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP TurboCad Platinum >2020- 2019-2018-2017-21-20-19 and 18.Using only LightWorks (NO Redsdk Plugin installed), Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,


November 14, 2014, 03:15:09 PM
#10
I believe the attached image below illustrates what bach911 was referring to, in regards to >"Bottom" Isometric Views<.

-Alvin
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:32:04 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* November 16, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
#11
Alvin has beautifully described what views I would like. How are other TurboCAD users viewing the bottom portions of their projects with enough prospective for editing? I am using "orbit" "examine". This is not near as easy as clicking an isometric view for the top of a project.   

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram


* November 16, 2014, 12:23:53 PM
#12
Someone long ago provided a .dll called "viewsUCS" that gives views by UCS (surprised?), which simplified this.  Go to standard isometric, nominate WP by view, select bottom view by that WP and you're where you want to be.

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* November 16, 2014, 12:42:02 PM
#13
re: …ViewsUCS…

See the link in Henry's post in the Work Plane topic from long ago. I'm not sure about it working in 64-bit.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2020
Designer, Deluxe, (Basic, Expert, Professional), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1909), 64-bit


November 16, 2014, 01:30:07 PM
#14
Alvin has beautifully described what views I would like. How are other TurboCAD users viewing the bottom portions of their projects with enough prospective for editing? I am using "orbit" "examine". This is not near as easy as clicking an isometric view for the top of a project.

∎ I use the Walktrough Tools, particularly the Examine Tool*, to get sort of "Bottom"-Isometric/Dimetric views that enable me to work on my model as I want, then go to (Named) Views and create a new Named View.   Then, when I want to get back to that View-- or start manipulating a new/current view from that View-- I just click on the appropriate "Activate" cell in the (Named) View Palette.

∎ I keep my (Named) View Palette Open as a Separate Palette most times, for quicker/easier getting to.  I often work with one small monitor, so I often will have that Palette floating, and rolled-up kind of small.  I also have the Command "Named View" (which "opens" the (Named) View Palette) as one of my PopUp Toolbars, enabling getting to it quickly via right-click/Local-Menu.
 "(Named) View" can also be accessed directly via Design Director or Menu-Bar/View.

∎ If-- after manipulating the Camera, starting from a pre-Named View-- I get a View that I like better for working with the model and/or for an eventual Paperspace Viewport, I can click on "Update" in the (Named) View Palette.

∎ A habit I have gotten into-- when wanting something like an "overall" "Bottom" Isometric/Dimetric View-- is to first set "Drawing Center" in Camera Properties/Camera/Target-Point.  With certain drawings, this helps to not "lose" sight of the model Objects while establishing a View.

-Alvin

_____
*Note:  There are better "Dynamic View Controls" that can be assigned to the mouse-wheel use.  However, this is known not to work with Microsoft Wireless mice, which is what I have.  Although, I have had some success in enabling these Dynamic movements by holding down the CTRL and/or SHIFT key(s), and holding down the right-click mouse button and moving my mouse.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 12:47:57 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
Intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 (ver6.5).  No formal CAD Training.
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* November 16, 2014, 02:17:25 PM
#15
re: …ViewsUCS…

See the link in Henry's post in the Work Plane topic from long ago. I'm not sure about it working in 64-bit.

Your reservation is right, John, it doesn't.  It does give a clue of how to set up negative iso named views to template them, though.  Go to SW iso view, for example, set WP by view, draw a rectangle, set WP x 3 points by sequence the rectangle's bottom right, bottom left then top right, then view|3D view|plan|by WP, or hit the UCS plan button.   The result is NE negative iso.  Once the view's been set and named for recall, the rectangle's disposable.   The named views won't zoom to extents, which might be cumbersome if you're not using scroll wheel click to zoom extents.

Just occurred to me that you could set named WPs instead of views and Ctrl+Shift+W to view plan by WP, which would zoom extents, if you wanted to work it that way.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 04:37:06 AM by murray dickinson »

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* November 17, 2014, 07:54:37 AM
#16
Thanks to all of you. You can teach an old dog new tricks. I really like how you set a named reversed iso view.

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Mike James
TurboCAD Pro 21.2 Platinum 64
Asus i7-3612QM 12gb ram