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Make Select tool default
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* September 12, 2013, 12:03:28 PM
Is there a way to make the Select tool the default tool when a file is loaded?  I find it so frustrating that the line tool is automatically active when a file is first opened, I would much rather have the Select tool be active.  How can I make the Select tool active by default?

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September 12, 2013, 12:14:22 PM
#1
Depending on your version maybe a Ruby script could be written to do this. Not tried this myself and it may cause more of a problem than just selecting the select tool  :-\

It could be that TC needs to have this before anything else works. Maybe someone else can enlighten us on this default as even switching from Model Space to Paper Space forces it to the line tool.  :P

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 12, 2013, 12:35:47 PM
#2
Thanks, I should have mentioned that I'm using TC20 Deluxe.  Yes, I hope someone can enlighten us about this.

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* September 12, 2013, 01:46:50 PM
#3
It's been mentioned before, but select can't be invoked in TC if there's nothing in the drawing, ie a new drawing is empty, so you're invited to draw a line. 

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* September 12, 2013, 02:20:07 PM
#4
re: Is there a way to make the Select tool the default tool when a file is loaded?

In V20 Deluxe, No.

You can upgrade to a V20 Pro edition, which has the TurboCAD LTE interface bolted on.
You can downgrade to TurboCAD LTE V6 or TurboCAD LTE Pro V6; no real rendering  or 3D capabilities.
The TurboCAD LTE interface opens with the Selection tool active.
TurboCAD LTE Pro V6 free trial.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 02:21:52 PM by John R »

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


September 12, 2013, 03:00:31 PM
#5
John

It does seem logical to have the following code:

vba...ish:

ID = filename.drawing

If ID = Success.opendrawing & ID = graphic.content > 0 then
tool.selection = Select
Else
tool.selection = Line
end if

Simples?  ??? :P :-\

Beam me up Scotty!  ;D
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 03:24:54 PM by Darrel Durose »

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 13, 2013, 06:38:04 AM
#6
It's been mentioned before, but select can't be invoked in TC if there's nothing in the drawing, ie a new drawing is empty, so you're invited to draw a line.
Right, but I'm talking about files that already exist.  I can't see any reason why Line has to be the default active tool unless the drawing is empty.

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* September 13, 2013, 06:51:53 AM
#7
TC's multiple document interface opens before files, so the programmers would have to introduce an opening variation that would require a forward declaration that everyone would have to make before the MDI could open any file.  That would bug me.   It might seem harsh, but I prefer for you to have to tap the space bar after TC opens a file, than for me to have to declare variables before it can.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:13:59 AM by murray dickinson »

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* September 16, 2013, 06:48:25 AM
#8
Not to belabor the point, but TC loads one tool by default, why not the Select tool?  Select is completely innocuous if the file is empty, whereas other tools generate geometry, unintentional or otherwise.  I'm not trying to be adversarial, just pointing out what I believe would be an admittedly minor improvement.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond.

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* September 16, 2013, 12:52:41 PM
#9
John

It does seem logical to have the following code:

vba...ish:

ID = filename.drawing

If ID = Success.opendrawing & ID = graphic.content > 0 then
tool.selection = Select
Else
tool.selection = Line
end if

Simples?  ??? :P :-\

Beam me up Scotty!  ;D

You're talking to the wrong guy, Darrel. I know bupkiss about VBA Code. Kevan over in DesignCAD knows this backwards & forwards. Maybe he knows something.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


September 16, 2013, 02:24:55 PM
#10
I don't think it would be that simple John.
If it could it should be an option setting for those who like it the way it is.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


September 16, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
#11
Its not just the select tool.  Most of the tools cannot be engaged when they cannot be used.   

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


September 17, 2013, 04:26:35 AM
#12
I have pitched my two penny worth about this in the past and there are many references to it in the Wish List.  Just I suspect that IMSIdesign make no effort to read that.

I know not what language is used for TC but, from my experience in programming. it is definitely not rocket science to add code like Darrel's.

My preference would be to make it part of the Options that can be changed at any time or passed from one version to the next.

Maybe if thousands shouted at IMSI to make the change as I find it nuts to have to open any drawing and hit the spacebar to get select instead of drawing a line as that assumes you have saved the file with the pointer near to the point where you want to draw your next line.

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regards
Colin Reid
TC2018 Pro Platinum 64 bit  + LW plugin on Win10 desktop and  Quad Intel i7 with 32GB RAM + 128GB  SSD and 2TB partitioned hard disk, NVidia 2GB video


* September 17, 2013, 11:09:00 PM
#13
I've too have lost count of the number of unwanted lines I've drawn as a result of this insane default behaviour.
Lets do a count:

If you like the current default, add a post with the subject I Vote Line.

If you would like to have the Select tool as the default, add a post with the subject I Vote Select.

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Gary Wooding
Win10 64-bit,
TC21.2 x64 Plat, Bld59
TC16.2 Plat, Bld54.0
TCC 3.5


September 18, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
#14
I Vote Select.

Bob

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TC 14 Deluxe, TC 19 Pro
Windows 7, 64bit 8GB Ram


September 19, 2013, 03:23:13 PM
#15
I will save you the trouble.  Its not going to happen.

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


September 20, 2013, 04:07:32 AM
#16
Rip

Can you explain the reason so people do not keep asking.  :o

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 20, 2013, 05:56:32 AM
#17
I thought it already happened in the V20 Pro editions, if you use the "LTE Workspace" style. I can start the program, open an existing drawing or a blank drawing and the Selection tool is active. Select and use a drawing tool; when done, the cursor returns to the Selection tool in many cases, unless you activate the Multiple option.

Granted, the LTE Workspace is missing some/several Pro options, but I'm hoping they'll iron out those wrinkles soon.

Will the Deluxe or Designer editions get the LTE treatment? I doubt it, as long as the regular TurboCAD LTE and TurboCAD LTE Pro are available.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


September 20, 2013, 10:41:19 AM
#18
We do take time to listen to and evaluate user requests and wish list items.  There are many reason why this one most likely wont happen.  Here are a couple.

If we change the behavior of the select tool in the standard TC UI it would behave differently than the other tools in that it could be engaged when it cannot be used.  Do we stop at the select tool or do we do this with other tools.  This behavior should be consistent through out all of the tools. 

When troubleshooting problem files it is useful to see a tool grayed out when you cannot use it.  Some drawings may appear blank but I know they are not because i can engage the select tool.

There is no strong use case for having the select tool engaged when there is nothing to select.  The only thing I can think of is that it could lesson the chance of space dust.  That said most of the files i receive with this problem are DWG files from other softwares. 

It would be a lot of work for what boils down to is simply a matter of preference.  There are hundreds of small tweaks that could make our tools more useful, this would be very near the bottom of that list.

Most TurboCAD users hit the space bar without thinking about it when they want to select.  I probably do this even when the select tool is engaged.

This is how TurboCAD has worked for a long time.  While some users have been annoyed by this and have complained loudly it is really only a problem for I would say a dozen or so users. 

We do realize that users new to TurboCAD are used to the select tool being engaged at start up.  We now have the LTE interface.   While we continue to develop the LTE interface to be more like AutoCAD we will most likely be leaving the standard TurboCAD work space as it is.

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


September 20, 2013, 12:11:17 PM
#19
Rip

Thanks for your response but we are not saying to have the Select Tool engaged when there is nothing in the drawing.

Anyway.....lets move on and draw a line under it.  ;D

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 20, 2013, 07:03:23 PM
#20
"This is how TurboCAD has worked for a long time.  While some users have been annoyed by this and have complained loudly it is really only a problem for I would say a dozen or so users.  "

Wrong!!!
This has annoyed me since day one and I know I'm not a minority.
JUST FIX IT!!!!!(Please)(edited)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 08:07:33 PM by 3dme »

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September 21, 2013, 05:17:58 AM
#21
John R has possibly let a kitten out of the bag if what several people want is actually available in LTE workspace.  Having had no experience of AutoCAD, I was not requesting to have a workspace reminiscent of AutoCAD and, indeed, when it appeared in TC20 I did not like it one little bit.

Darrell just how many lines do you draw by mistake?  Given Rip Fowler's response of forget it it will not happen are you content with such a responsive software supplier who despite his comments does not appear to take much notice.  If they can do it for LTE, why not for the TC most are used to and I don't believe we should let it drop.

Rip - I cannot be bothered to try LTE again to see if John R is correct about opening with the Select tool rather than drawing a line.  If he is, do you not think your forget it comment not exactly good customer relations.

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regards
Colin Reid
TC2018 Pro Platinum 64 bit  + LW plugin on Win10 desktop and  Quad Intel i7 with 32GB RAM + 128GB  SSD and 2TB partitioned hard disk, NVidia 2GB video


September 21, 2013, 05:50:17 AM
#22
Colin

Every now and again I will forget about TC's default line and start to draw one but i nearly always never click to place the second point. It is more of a niggle when I do MS/PS switching to update RedSDK and I have nothing in PS. I nearly always engage a tool.....which the Line, surprisingly, is never the first tool I want.

How many of us do use the line tool first (on purpose)?

I suppose if enough people request/complain about it then something could come of it.

It's probably looked on as a very small issue.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 21, 2013, 06:37:59 AM
#23
Here is my 2 cents worth. I think we are trying to make a Mountain out of a Mole Hill here. Every program I have ever used has some quirk that I did not like. BUT you do get used to it and in time just live with it. Carroll

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Carroll D. Peppersack
TurboCad 14.2 Deluxe
TurboCad 20 Plat


* September 21, 2013, 06:47:35 AM
#24
I agree. If the select tool was default how many people would wish that it was another tool? You cant make everyone happy all the time.
However I dont think that focusing on the lt workspace and forgetting about the standard workspace is a good move.

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* September 21, 2013, 07:37:37 AM
#25
Nicely put Carroll and I agree with you.  You are right in that in your comment about different cad software.  I use Siemens NX8 and Solid Edge at work and they both have their quarks.  The weld groove in both packages work different from each other and this is in their own software packages.

Richard

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TurboCAD 2016 Professional 64-bit - Platinum Edition Windows 10 - No Lightworks

Richard


* September 21, 2013, 01:38:13 PM
#26
John R has possibly let a kitten out of the bag if what several people want is actually available in LTE workspace.  Having had no experience of AutoCAD, I was not requesting to have a workspace reminiscent of AutoCAD and, indeed, when it appeared in TC20 I did not like it one little bit.

Darrell just how many lines do you draw by mistake?  Given Rip Fowler's response of forget it it will not happen are you content with such a responsive software supplier who despite his comments does not appear to take much notice.  If they can do it for LTE, why not for the TC most are used to and I don't believe we should let it drop.

Rip - I cannot be bothered to try LTE again to see if John R is correct about opening with the Select tool rather than drawing a line.  If he is, do you not think your forget it comment not exactly good customer relations.

How many people have asked for this, out of TC's customer base, in a civil manner or otherwise?  For my own part, I've been a TC user for the best part of two decades, I LIKE how it works, and I DON'T WANT arbitrary, demonstrably less logical, change because a noisy FEW get bees in their bonnets.  If the existing condition offends your sensibilities, and being told that you won't be accommodated compounds your offence to the point of tantrum, vote with your wallets.  Or use a Sharpie to note on your screen's bezel 'Tap space bar FIRST'......
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 01:42:32 PM by murray dickinson »

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September 21, 2013, 02:36:42 PM
#27
Its all a question of preference. Some of us would like to have the options. If it cannot be achieved then we just have to adjust and work with it.
Everyone has the right to say how they feel within reason and this is what a forum is for. Certain things frustrate people where others think they are over reacting. Thats Life.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* September 21, 2013, 02:53:44 PM
#28
Sure, and we've gone from sublime to ridiculous when we start characterising software companies by the way they couch their responses. Rip gave a reasoned explanation, then the accusation became that the company's not responsive because Colin doesn't agree - or he's offended by Rip's composition, or he just won't take 'No' for an answer, so nobody else should either.  Gary proposed a petition, and it sank without trace.  As you said, let's draw a line under it - that's the default tool, after all....

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September 21, 2013, 04:49:24 PM
#29
OK,

I would prefer the select tool as default but a reasoned explanation was offered, (after some prompting), and so be it. In terms of value for money TurboCAD is way ahead of the competition. It will stay there provided the explanations come before the "It ain't gonna happens." Perception is very important in the marketing game.

May I suggest that this thread be locked and we can all reflect on what we could have done better.

Best Regards
Bob

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TC 14 Deluxe, TC 19 Pro
Windows 7, 64bit 8GB Ram


* September 21, 2013, 08:44:48 PM
#30
I'm basing my preference for the select tool as the default when opening an existing drawing on my own experience. The first thing I usually do when I open an existing 2D drawing is examine it by zooming in and out with the scroll wheel. With a 3D I might examine with the mouse button also. Rarely would the line tool be the first tool I would use. For a new drawing, of course there is nothing to select but there's only a chance that a line would be the first thing I would draw. Maybe I'm unique?
Here's a thought:
No tool at all as the default.
Mitch

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* September 21, 2013, 10:57:37 PM
#31
Well, I tried the LTE interface that comes in V20 Pro, 'cause I'm sure no one else will. When I opened a new drawing, it's set to "Select". I drew some lines with the LTE Line tool, as it's always "on". I then opened an existing drawing while the Line tool was active. The cursor changed to the Selection tool when the drawing opened. I activated several different 2D tools and when I opened a drawing, TurboCAD switched to the Selection tool. They have a special set of 2D tools to use with the LTE interface and those will revert to the Selection tool when a drawing is opened. I did find a few of the TurboCAD 2D tools stayed active when opening a drawing and most of the 3D tools.

I find the Dynamic Input a bit of a pain with all the stuff following the cursor around; also the Command Console. I went to the Dynamic Input page and turned off all the options. I clicked on the Command Line icon to turn it off. The program now looks like TurboCAD & has the Inspector Bar, but drawings open with the Selection tool active (in most cases).

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


* September 22, 2013, 07:43:15 AM
#32
John R has possibly let a kitten out of the bag if what several people want is actually available in LTE workspace.  Having had no experience of AutoCAD, I was not requesting to have a workspace reminiscent of AutoCAD and, indeed, when it appeared in TC20 I did not like it one little bit.

Darrell just how many lines do you draw by mistake?  Given Rip Fowler's response of forget it it will not happen are you content with such a responsive software supplier who despite his comments does not appear to take much notice.  If they can do it for LTE, why not for the TC most are used to and I don't believe we should let it drop.

Rip - I cannot be bothered to try LTE again to see if John R is correct about opening with the Select tool rather than drawing a line.  If he is, do you not think your forget it comment not exactly good customer relations.

How many people have asked for this, out of TC's customer base, in a civil manner or otherwise?  For my own part, I've been a TC user for the best part of two decades, I LIKE how it works, and I DON'T WANT arbitrary, demonstrably less logical, change because a noisy FEW get bees in their bonnets.  If the existing condition offends your sensibilities, and being told that you won't be accommodated compounds your offence to the point of tantrum, vote with your wallets. Or use a Sharpie to note on your screen's bezel 'Tap space bar FIRST'......

Not all true Murray. My experiences are that If I open a new drawing or a template file that has no active entities I’m stuck with the line tool and hitting the space bar does not activate the select tool. Only if there are active entities or opening an existing drawing hitting the space bar releases the line tool and activates the select tool. Most of my templates have a 2d point  at 0,0,0 with the user coordinate icon active. Then when I open a blank template hitting the space bar activates the select tool. Maybe Imsi could make the user coordinate icon an active entity in a given file then when you open a blank drawing with the user coordinate icon on hitting the space bar will activate the select tool.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* September 22, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
#33
You're not really 'stuck' with the line tool, though, Dean, are you?

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* September 22, 2013, 07:24:08 PM
#34
John R has possibly let a kitten out of the bag if what several people want is actually available in LTE workspace.  Having had no experience of AutoCAD, I was not requesting to have a workspace reminiscent of AutoCAD and, indeed, when it appeared in TC20 I did not like it one little bit.

Darrell just how many lines do you draw by mistake?  Given Rip Fowler's response of forget it it will not happen are you content with such a responsive software supplier who despite his comments does not appear to take much notice.  If they can do it for LTE, why not for the TC most are used to and I don't believe we should let it drop.

Rip - I cannot be bothered to try LTE again to see if John R is correct about opening with the Select tool rather than drawing a line.  If he is, do you not think your forget it comment not exactly good customer relations.

How many people have asked for this, out of TC's customer base, in a civil manner or otherwise?  For my own part, I've been a TC user for the best part of two decades, I LIKE how it works, and I DON'T WANT arbitrary, demonstrably less logical, change because a noisy FEW get bees in their bonnets.  If the existing condition offends your sensibilities, and being told that you won't be accommodated compounds your offence to the point of tantrum, vote with your wallets. Or use a Sharpie to note on your screen's bezel 'Tap space bar FIRST'......

Not all true Murray. My experiences are that If I open a new drawing or a template file that has no active entities I’m stuck with the line tool and hitting the space bar does not activate the select tool. Only if there are active entities or opening an existing drawing hitting the space bar releases the line tool and activates the select tool. Most of my templates have a 2d point  at 0,0,0 with the user coordinate icon active. Then when I open a blank template hitting the space bar activates the select tool. Maybe Imsi could make the user coordinate icon an active entity in a given file then when you open a blank drawing with the user coordinate icon on hitting the space bar will activate the select tool.

Thanks for the tip Dean.

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DonCW
2017 Pro with Light Works Plug in
2018 Platinum

Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.