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Converting 3d drawings to 2d dimensioned prints
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* November 20, 2012, 12:12:30 PM
I am working in 3d now because it is easier for me to visualize my overall project.  I was wondering, once I finish the 3d perspective work, what would be the best method(s) to convert 3d drawings over to 2d dimensioned prints with 3 views  orthographic projection?

I am assuming that if I have a master drawing with several parts, the way to go would be to make symbols out of all my individual parts and go from there - add dimensions and centerlines etc.   Is this correct?  Just trying to get an idea of best practices in my 3d drawings before I get too far into the project...

Thanks for any suggestions.

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* November 20, 2012, 03:17:55 PM
#1
One method — make Named Views of the views you want, then use the Viewport tool to place them into a paperspace page. The viewports can be set to specific scale and dimensioned.

A second method — the Drafting palette.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* March 19, 2013, 07:47:24 AM
#2
I have only Deluxe19 so I guess I can't do it via drafting palette.

For the named views though, I assume you mean I would have to rotate the views via mouse or pen into the perspective view I want for paperspace, and create a named view of that and put it into paperspace.  I do this all the time with 3d views, just having trouble taking a 3d view of a part and showing front, side top views of that 3d view.  I can rotate a 3d part to have a frontal face showing of a 3d view, but I am sure it's an easy way to do it - how would I take a 3d view, and show just a front, side top view of that 3d view?  Without having to rotate the part into position?

Isn't there a way to just select a facet, and define that facet as being on the top view plane?  And then set my axes to match that facet? Then with a mouse click, I can show that top view in 2d perfectly aligned on screen?

That's all I'm trying to do.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 07:57:54 AM by nadsab »

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* March 19, 2013, 08:00:15 AM
#3
Nadsab, in your ISO Views you should have World View(top), bottom, left and right views and front and back views. Carroll

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Carroll D. Peppersack
TurboCad 14.2 Deluxe
TurboCad 20 Plat


* March 19, 2013, 08:03:59 AM
#4
Yes that's what I'm using...3d views>Top    3d views>Bottom etc...

Here is what I am doing - I set my axes with the workplane by 3 points tool to the frontal facet I want to show as a front 2d view.

 I have tried both relative co ordinates and absolute.

 Then every time I go to the iso views to display front or top views etc, the view of the part is crooked - or in perspective - and not aligned to the axes I just set...

I even tried re setting the reference point of the part using the edit reference point tool, to the same point as the axes origin i set for that part.  I also tried re locating the origin to the samepoint, and the part still displays crooked when I do an iso top view...tried this in both relative and absolute co ordinate mode
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:09:15 AM by nadsab »

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* March 19, 2013, 08:12:29 AM
#5
I sounds to me like you have it rotated so that it is not flat on the world plane. Carroll

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Carroll D. Peppersack
TurboCad 14.2 Deluxe
TurboCad 20 Plat


* March 19, 2013, 08:19:16 AM
#6
Coud be - I have rotated the part in the past.  How would I check this or snap it back to the world plane?

Actualy when I click on the part, there is a 2d shell or bounding square that appears fairly far away from the part.  Blue box with handles and a rotate handle...

I copied and pasted this part into a new empty drawing because I could not get it to show the 2d views I want to show properly in the 3d drawing

I guess that is what I should be asking - how would I place the part onto the world plane?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:32:04 AM by nadsab »

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* March 19, 2013, 08:41:01 AM
#7
I am not sure but I thnk you have move your rotation bars off of your object. try this select your object and then click on the letter d then move it back to your object then go to world view and and try and square things up then left or right view and square things up by using your rotation bars. 

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Carroll D. Peppersack
TurboCad 14.2 Deluxe
TurboCad 20 Plat


* March 19, 2013, 08:53:08 AM
#8
OK let me see if I understand you correctly...

First off my rotation - scaling bars are already off of the object and floating in space away from the object when I click on the object but anyway what I think you meant...

1.)  Click on the part
2.)  Type the letter D on the keyboard
3.)  the cursor that comes up upon entering D on the keyboard, move the cursor to a location on the part that I want as my reference point and click on that
4.)  click on the workplane by world icon in the tools menu

Is that what you meant?  What am I moving back to the object?  The rotation bars?

If I try to move the rotation and scaling  bars after clicking on the object, the object also moves - did you mean I needed to move the rotation bars and not the object?

If so, I think I lost you at that point - I am supposed to rotate the part back onto the workplane, but if so what do I use as my reference if I am rotating in space?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:55:08 AM by nadsab »

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* March 19, 2013, 09:09:28 AM
#9
Yes perspective view is not checked in camera properties.

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* March 19, 2013, 09:15:22 AM
#10
Yes perspective view is not checked in camera properties.

nadsab,  You really oughta' upload (attach; Post) the TurboCAD drawing-file (.tcw).  If you do, you'll likely have your answer in under an hour, and your file will be re-Posted back to you with the corrections and descriptions of the actions taken.

I (we?) lose interest in helping Users with these easy-to-resolve issues that don't/won't upload (attach) their .tcw files.  There is very little any of us draw that is so secret or proprietary- or of such high-intellectual-property value- that we can't share it on these Forums.

-Alvin
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 11:23:24 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 19, 2013, 09:29:34 AM
#11
Hey I just figured it out!

All I had to do was go to View>3d  Views>Plan>By workplane.  Then set the object to the work plane I want to show 2d it worked great aligns it perfectly to  2d.

LOL I had been trying every possibility for weeks LOL. 

Thanks for all the advice all.

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* March 19, 2013, 09:39:51 AM
#12
Hey I just figured it out!

All I had to do was go to View>3d  Views>Plan>By workplane.  Then set the object to the work plane I want to show 2d it worked great aligns it perfectly to  2d.

LOL I had been trying every possibility for weeks LOL. 

Thanks for all the advice all.

But didn't you just move your Object nadsab?  Are you going to move your Object everytime you want to simply get a simple 2D view of it?  What if your drawing(s) start to get more complex, and moving an Object to other Workplanes is not a good thing?

The procedure you described (more accurately described, I believe-> View|Camera|Plan|Workplane; at least that's the way it is in my version 19.2 Deluxe) is really not the correct way to achieve what you are trying to achieve--  for those newer/novice Users that are following along.

-Alvin
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:42:00 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 19, 2013, 09:50:51 AM
#13
I have 19.1 and the path View|Camera|Plan|Workplane is not there.

You are correct though I am sure there is a better- proper way do it I am sure but right now though I am under a tight timeline and in the short term it serves my purpose.  I'll work on the doing it the right way in near future thanks much!

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* May 10, 2013, 06:51:25 AM
#14

nadsab,  You really oughta' upload (attach; Post) the TurboCAD drawing-file (.tcw).  If you do, you'll likely have your answer in under an hour, and your file will be re-Posted back to you with the corrections and descriptions of the actions taken....



OK I attached a drawing I have been working on - if anyone has time to look at this and offer any advice I'd appreciate it.

In the attached the problem I am having - although I am using View>3d  Views>Plan>By workplane to get a 2d view, sometimes this works AOK and sometimes not.  I often end up with thicker lines (in paperspace) because the view is slightly off.  Either that or lines are showing that I don't want to show because the angle is off a bit.

In this example I am trying to generate a 2d view of the rod end where the bore is in the end face of the rod - check out the end view of the rod I generated in paperspace.

I set my workplane I thought OK on the rod end, for this to work, but it is still slightly off  after I create a view and put the view in paperspace - if you look at the end of the rod in paperspace you can see what i mean.

So I am trying to learn the "right way" of how to take a 3d view and instead of drawing it all over again in 2d, how would I take this 3d view of the rod in model space and show views in 2d so that I don't have thicker lines, or view angle slightly off where other lines that I don't want to show show up in paperspace...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 06:43:20 AM by nadsab »

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* May 10, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
#15
Or is the way to do this, just use the 3d drawings as a template and re raw different views of them in 2d?

I am beginning to think this is the best way to do it - since i only have deluxe and don't have the drafting palette?...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:42:08 AM by nadsab »

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* May 10, 2013, 09:49:17 AM
#16
OK to learn how to do this the right way - if anyone has time to look at this and offer any advice I'd appreciate it.

In the attached the problem I am having - although I am using View>3d  Views>Plan>By workplane to get a 2d view, sometimes this works AOK and sometimes not.  I often end up with thicker lines (in paperspace) because the view is slightly off.  Either that or lines are showing that I don't want to show because the angle is off a bit.

In this example I am trying to generate a 2d view of the rod end where the bore is in the end face of the rod - check out the end view of the rod I generated in paperspace.

I set my workplane I thought OK on the rod end, for this to work, but it is still slightly off  after I create a view and put the view in paperspace - if you look at the end of the rod in paperspace you can see what i mean.

So I am trying to learn the "right way" of how to take a 3d view and instead of drawing it all over again in 2d, how would I take this 3d view of the rod in model space and show views in 2d so that I don't have thicker lines, or view angle slightly off where other lines that I don't want to show show up in paperspace...

The object itself isn't quite correct; I think the ends aren't quite square with the axis of the part. Since it's a fairly simple model, I'd recommend redrawing it.

Henry H

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* May 10, 2013, 09:50:34 AM
#17
Yeah that is what I was starting to think after tinkering with it the past few hours thanks.

So if the object is square, is the workplane method always supposed to give perfect 2d views - if my work plane is set up correctly?

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* May 10, 2013, 10:20:41 AM
#18
Or is the way to do this, just use the 3d drawings as a template and re raw different views of them in 2d?

I am beginning to think this is the best way to do it - since i only have deluxe and don't have the drafting palette?...

The efficient way to create 2D representations (in Paperspace) of 3D Objects (created in Modelspace) is not to "use the 3d drawings as a template and re raw different views of them in 2d"; not even close.  Even without having the Pro-available Drafting Palette, you achieve what you are after- in Deluxe- by setting up correct Named Views in Modelspace and using those Views in Viewports (which you have seemed to do).

----
Your drawing has at least two issues:
  • Your "View 5"-  which is the View used in your end-view Viewport, seemingly intended to be the Standard Left View-  is not a fully Orthographic view; it's a bit skewed.  It was set up that way- likely inadvertently- by you or whomever created it.
  • Your whole Modelspace model is a bit skewed- not Orthographic, not perpendicular or parallel to the World Workplane and Standard Views axes.
-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* May 10, 2013, 12:13:02 PM
#19
OK thanks.

Is there any way to correct it or should I start from scratch?

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* May 10, 2013, 12:55:50 PM
#20
OK thanks.

Is there any way to correct it or should I start from scratch?

You can try to correct your model.  But (keep in mind, I am not an Expert-level TurboCAD User) I tried for a while, but couldn't get it.  I could, of course, if I were willing to devote enough time and effort to it.

Henry, or one of the other Expert-level Users, could probably rotate your model to where it is "orthographic", pretty quickly and easily.

----
Somehow, you have to rotate the Object- from the Front view, Side views, and Top view- so that it is perpendicular and parallel with the "built-in" World Workplane and Standard Views.

----
You can start over... it would be a good learning exercise.  Be wary and careful of what Workplanes you are tweaking and working on.   You don't need as many as you think.  My hunch is that somehow your "main" workplane got tweaked (skewed) and you started drawing on that and setting your Views in relation to that.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* May 10, 2013, 02:50:47 PM
#21
Thanks.

So for future reference, if I am doing a drawing in 3d how should I set it up for later converting 3d perspective views  into 2d?  Is there a simple quick method I can follow?

Should I just create a blank named view first and set my axis a patricular way before I start drawing?

In the past all I have done are 3d perspective views without thinking about how to set them up for later 2d use.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 02:52:36 PM by nadsab »

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* May 10, 2013, 04:16:14 PM
#22
Thanks.

So for future reference, if I am doing a drawing in 3d how should I set it up for later converting 3d perspective views  into 2d?  Is there a simple quick method I can follow?

Should I just create a blank named view first and set my axis a patricular way before I start drawing?

In the past all I have done are 3d perspective views without thinking about how to set them up for later 2d use.

First of all:  Stop using the term, and thinking of it as, converting.  There's no converting.

----
You are creating a 3D Model.  Then you are choosing ways of looking at it-  or sort of taking a "picture" of it-  by use of a Camera.  There is no conversion process that "changes" your 3D Model from 3D to 2D; you are simply looking at your 3D Model in a certain way.

Start with drawing a Box (a box is a very simple 3D Object; a Cube) on the World (plain ol' World) Workplane.  Now, there are numerous ways of looking at that Box, of Viewing that Box.  Once you get a View you like (could even be a Standard View, such as Left, Top, Front, etc.), save that View as a Named View for future "getting back to" in Modelspace and for use in Viewports in Paperspace.  There is no reason not to have a (you-created) Named View named Standard Left View (or other Named/Standard View) in your list of Named Views for use in your Paperspace Viewports.

----
Basically, nasdab, you don't quite yet have the elementary/basic conceptual understanding of how to create 2D "representations" of 3D Models in Paperspace (by Inserting Views via Viewports; or by use of the Drafting Palette if we had it available in Deluxe).  There is no converting going on; just "pictures" or Views that-  because our monitor-screens and eventual printed-paper are flat are 2D-appearing representations of our 3D Model.

-----
I don't know what else to say; you are just at the very basic level of learning how to draw 3D models in TurboCAD and to create 2D Views of them.  You're just going to have to keep playing with it and learning, I guess; until that light-bulb clicks, and you have the ah-hah moment.  But start with a simple Box, drawn on the World Workplane and create Named Views in Modelspace, and Insert Viewports using those Views, in Paperspace (putting the Text of numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the each side; or Top, Bottom, Front, Rear, Left Side, Right Side is a way to not get disoriented, while learning).

----
And regarding your question:  "Should I just create a blank named view first and set my axis a particular way before I start drawing?"  No.  That's almost completely bass-ackwards of how you should do it.  First you draw the Model, then you choose how to view it.

I see what you are trying to do.  You do not have a good understanding of Workplanes; everyone struggles with this, until that ah-hah light-bulb goes on in their heads.  You've gotten a grasp of one method of setting a Workplane-  "By View"-  and now your mind is thinking it's the only method of setting a Workplane, and it is not... not at all.

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A book can be written on this Topic (3D Modeling, Workplanes, creating 2d Views of 3D Models), and some have.  Good luck.  If you want badly enough to understand it, eventually the basic concept and understanding will come to you; and you will be able to draw anything you want, view it any way you want, and present 2D representations of your 3D Models any way you want.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* May 10, 2013, 09:57:23 PM
#23
I am no expert either. but I tried to straighten your model so that it lined up with the world ucs.
The views still looked off.
Is the round tube thing the same diameter along the length?

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* May 11, 2013, 05:44:36 PM
#24
Yes it was just a simple extrude. Maybe I goofed it up somewhere along the way though.

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May 12, 2013, 12:47:23 AM
#25
Try textual creations - i think he had a workplane tutorial

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FerrariDrafting (Find me on Facebook)
Australia
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* May 12, 2013, 04:04:58 AM
#26
Thanks,  I checked it out - it appears that the workplanes tutorial is geared toward pro users and I only have Deluxe 19

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* May 12, 2013, 04:16:36 AM
#27
Is there a way to set a work plane, and have only what is on that workplane show in paperspace?  Omitting eerything that is not on that workplane?

In other words take a planar slice of a drawing and put that slice in paperspace?

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* May 12, 2013, 06:08:07 AM
#28


----
You are creating a 3D Model.  Then you are choosing ways of looking at it-  or sort of taking a "picture" of it-  by use of a Camera.  There is no conversion process that "changes" your 3D Model from 3D to 2D; you are simply looking at your 3D Model in a certain way.

Start with drawing a Box (a box is a very simple 3D Object; a Cube) on the World (plain ol' World) Workplane.  Now, there are numerous ways of looking at that Box, of Viewing that Box.  Once you get a View you like (could even be a Standard View, such as Left, Top, Front, etc.), save that View as a Named View for future "getting back to" in Modelspace and for use in Viewports in Paperspace.  There is no reason not to have a (you-created) Named View named Standard Left View (or other Named/Standard View) in your list of Named Views for use in your Paperspace Viewports.

----
Basically, nasdab, you don't quite yet have the elementary/basic conceptual understanding of how to create 2D "representations" of 3D Models in Paperspace (by Inserting Views via Viewports; or by use of the Drafting Palette if we had it available in Deluxe).  There is no converting going on; just "pictures" or Views that-  because our monitor-screens and eventual printed-paper are flat are 2D-appearing representations of our 3D Model.



-Alvin

Alvin I just had to respond to this maybe there is some mis understanding here - I had to smile after reading your above...

Yes first of all I could have chosen my wording better, instead of using the term "converting", I should have said something like - "display a planar surface of a 3d object", or something like that.  Although relatively new to Turbocad, I have been tinkering around with various 3d applications since the mid to late 1990's including Adobe products and Swift 3D., Marcomedia etc.  Actually about as long as they have been commercially avaiable on a wide scale.

To clear up some confusion here - in the past five months, I have completed over two hundred perspective 3d drawings in Turbocad Deluxe 19, used paperspace and viewports to print over 200 perspective representations to PDF, submitted them to USPTO with over 90 pages of written specifications in my recent utility patent application filing.   I have probabally created over a thousand named views for use in both model and paperspace over the past several months.

On an unrelated matter last week when I contacted the inventors assistance center (staffed by retired patent examiners), after having some problems filling electronically, the staffer opened up my drawings, and with out me even bringing the topic of drawings up, he mentioned that it was clear to him that the drawings I submitted were professionally done, and foresaw no problems with having to re do any of them with my upcoming first office action.  So my problem is not in understanding how to look at and display 3d models in 2d space using viewports.

As an aside here I'd like to thank all the folks who gave me such wonderful advice the past several months because of the above paragraph - I started out with zero cad knowledge since my Autocad class I had in 1991 LOL and was able to get up to speed quickly on this to submit my design.  Now it's hurry up and wait -takes about 2.5 years for an examiner to give me a first look LOL.

In the mean time though, the problem I have been having as of late is taking those perspective drawings, displaying some of them as dimensioned 2d prints for the prototype work.  This is mainly because all of my work for the past several months has been solely on creating perspective views for patent drawings and not 2d dimensioned prints of 3d perspective views.  I have only started dimensioning a few days ago.

The problem I am apparently having, is with line thickness. Even if I set my work plane perfectly by 3d Views/Plan/By Work plane on one face of a 3d view. for example on a slotted clamping collar, the alignment is slightly off in paperspace, and hidden lines are showing behind the front facet outline making them a tad bit thicker.  So I set my axes to align with the collar face, and it is slightly off or skewed.

I thought it might be something I was not doing correctly so I re drew one of the collars yesterday being careful with my axes.   At the beginning states I was able to display the end of an extruded cylinder such that I had no line thickness problem in my viewport in paperspace - see attached. After I modified the collar - without making any modifications to the circumference of the extrusion other than a slot towards the ID and some bores, the outline - line thickness - of the OUTLINE of the collar, is now non uniform in paperspace when I tried to set a 2d view of the face of the collar - or end of the exrusion.

It does not make sense - why would an extruded cylinder show a perfect outline (of the end of the cylinder) in paperspace, yet after some modification, the line thickness of the un modified outline - end face - is off?  If I make no alterations to the circumference of the collar (simple extrude of circle - cylinder), the end faces of the cylinders both should be showing perfectly with uniform line thickness.  When you compare the outlines in paperspace (the attached), you can see the difference.

It would be logical to assume that bore holes through the face of the collar might show up with un even line thickness if my bore hole extrusions were slightly off, or that is, if the circle i drew on the face of the collar - workplane - was not perpindicular to the lenghtwise axis of the cylinder prior to extruding the circle.  But the outline of the collar itself should still have uniform line thickness in 2d space, if the original extruded outline was AOK,  so that is what does not make sense to me.

EDIT

After doing some more tinkering, I tried drawing another collar, and this time I zoomed in very close and set my axes by using the Work Plane by 3 points tool as I usually do then 3d Views/Plan/By Work plane to set up my viewport.  I was drawing a rectangle to cut one on the keyway slots by extruding and then 3d subtracting - I noticed by setting my snap to vertex and then trying to align the axis to a vertex of the 3d polyline for the rectangle to be extruded, that the origin was not snapping exactly to the vertex - it was snapping to open space near the polyline.  So I am wondering now if the drawings are slightly off because the workplane by 3 point tool is sometimes not snapping into the correct position.

Has anyone had this kind of problem before?

Sometimes it snaps to vertex and sometimes not - unless I am zoomed in way close I would have no way of knowing.

If this is what is causing it it would explain the problem with the keyway slots but not the bores on the face of the collar, because for doing those I was using the workplane by facet tool to set up the extruded circles.  Is it possible the workplane by facet could be slightly off too - if the 3 point tool is sometimes slightly off?

I'm running XP and using a Wacom tablet if that makes any difference.

I think I remember reading here a few months back  can't remember what the subject was - that there were some issues with Wacom tablets...could the tablet itself cause problems with not snapping correctly?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 08:57:27 AM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 09:39:10 AM
#29
"After doing some more tinkering, I tried drawing another collar, and this time I zoomed in very close and set my axes by using the Work Plane by 3 points tool as I usually do then 3d Views/Plan/By Work plane to set up my viewport.  I was drawing a rectangle to cut one on the keyway slots by extruding and then 3d subtracting - I noticed by setting my snap to vertex and then trying to align the axis to a vertex of the 3d polyline for the rectangle to be extruded, that the origin was not snapping exactly to the vertex - it was snapping to open space near the polyline.  So I am wondering now if the drawings are slightly off because the workplane by 3 point tool is sometimes not snapping into the correct position."

You are correct. This is a BUG that nobody else seems to have noticed. I'll report it officially in a moment.

Henry H

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* May 12, 2013, 10:19:14 AM
#30
Thanks Henry.  FYI I am using a Wacom tablet model number is GD-0608-U.  I usually use my Wacom mouse not the pen, because it is easier on my hand, I wonder if that is the issue.

I just tried this again - I drew a 3D polyline between the center points of two circles outlining a center bore, as a lengthwise axis of the bore on a new collar I am drawing.  I was setting it up to re draw the keyway slots.   When I set up a middle point snap and tried to set my axes using the three point workplane tool, I set the axis, but when I zoomed way in, it was obvious that the origin of the axis was not on the 3D poly line.

So I tried it again, setting the axis and this time zoomed way in, and for some reason the middle point snap is snapping to a location just above the 3d polyline.

This reminds me of about a week ago, I tried to make my electronic patent filing, the USPTO system would not accept my PDF's and the EBC there spent two days with me on the phone trying to diagnose a problem with my PC or my files.   So finally they asked me to email my file, they test uploaded my files using their internal system and they duplicated the problem, then they checked their system and found that it was not set up yet to take a micro entity filing of over 100 pages since the new fee structure recently changed LOL.  Once I tried uploading and paying the standard fee it worked right away, they were just not set up to take the surcharge for over 100 pages LOL.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 10:21:28 AM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 10:30:33 AM
#31
BTW I am using TC 19.1 32 bit build 33.3 on a well maintained XP machine.

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* May 12, 2013, 11:14:34 AM
#32
Henry as an update, I also tried the "Nearest on Graphic" and  "Vertex" snaps with the Workplane by 3 points tool, and same problem - the snap location is offset from the line by the same amount as the middle point snap.  I can't measure it but it seems to be off by a few thou of an inch.  This would explain the problem I am having.  Come to think of it, I always wondered on ocassion why my axis seemed to be ever so slightly - not precisely along a line I was setting it to - but it was never an issue since all these months I was only focused on 3d perspective drawings and not dimensioned 2d prints.  All along I though it was someting I was doing wrong LOL.

Most of the time the 3 point workplane tool seems AOK on a line, but now that I have been looking in to it, when I set the axes on a line zoomed way out it appears OK then when I  zoom way way in it is obviously off.  I guess all it takes is a thou of an inch and the line thickness gets messed up when viewing a facet as 2d.

I was hoping to do some dimensioned views - prints for the machine shop for tomorrow - from my patent drawings - but I guess there is no point in doing so until I get some kind of word if this is a fixable bug - my PC is not the latest state of the art equipment so maybe on older systems this is an issue.  Sadly I have about 90 parts drawings to re draw if they all have the same problem which I suspect they do.
 
At least they were good enough for the patent office - close enough  for gubbermint work LOL.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 11:18:39 AM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 11:21:54 AM
#33
I would suggest updating your Deluxe copy to V19.2 Build 54.2. I can't replicate the workplane problem in that build. There was a problem in that earlier build.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
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Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* May 12, 2013, 11:51:20 AM
#34
Nadsab said "Has anyone had this kind of problem before?

Sometimes it snaps to vertex and sometimes not - unless I am zoomed in way close I would have no way of knowing."



Is ortho snap on? If so, turn it off then try the workplane by 3 points.
When snapping and or moving or placing an “arbitrary point” never have “ortho snap” enabled un-less you want the step angle reference <which is located  >options > angle > under ortho angle > step angle.
 For guaranteed precise placement turn “no snap” on >meaning all snaps are disabled<.

one more thought > workplanes do not twist they are infinite planes. If you are unsure if you have un-intentionally twisted an object check the “coordinates” of the vertices in the selection info palette 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 12:23:48 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 and HP all in one desktop with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3


* May 12, 2013, 02:16:02 PM
#35



Is ortho snap on?

No.  It's off.

Turn on "No Snap"?

When I turn on "No Snap", even if I have "Nearest on Graphic" selected, all snap options are grayed out.   Actually everything is grayed out when I select "No Snap" . Whether choosing SNAP or GEO.

Is that the way it is supposed to work?  No snap grays everything out?

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* May 12, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
#36
I would suggest updating your Deluxe copy to V19.2 Build 54.2. I can't replicate the workplane problem in that build. There was a problem in that earlier build.

Wish i could.  When I click Help>Turbocad Updates, it takes me to a page offering to sell me a version 20.

It would appear then that I have been a paying guinea pig, paying for the privilege to beta test their software which I purchased which is not bug free.  I did 200 3d Drawings only to find that what I paid for was not thoroughly tested.   And when I try to upload a bug fix for a product I purchased four months ago, I get taken to a page to buy new product, just a few months after I purchased version 19. 

So now I learn that i will have to re draw everything because the axis does not properly snap to. And when I try to download a bug fix, to repair a known bug, I get taken to a page to offer me to pay more money for a new version, when the old version does not even work properly.

Needless to say, I am not a happy camper after learning that I have to re do 200 drawings because the axis tool does not snap to a line properly.

And this after someone on this forum tells me in a condescending fashion, that I am incapable of drawing a box, that I do not understand the meaning of 3d Graphics, despite the fact that i have been using computers since 1977, and have over 10 years or machine tool sales experience reading blue prints.


« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 03:14:08 PM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 03:04:23 PM
#37
No where did I see an attention anywhere on the Turbocad forum that there was a bug fix for version 19.1 until I dug deep.  It would seem that they would post notices somewhere that there are bug fixes like in an email to customers or something like that.

It sure would have been helpful if IMSI management had provided that valuable information, it would have saved me weeks of frustration trying to figure out what was wrong.

Don't your people test out our software on older Wacom tablets?  It's not like my tablet was created by Thomas Edison...in MENLO PARK.

I even checked all of my past emails from IMSI and although I have received many advertisements to buy the version 20 or to buy their pro version, no one had the courtesy to inform me by email that there is a bug in the version I purchased here is a place where you can download a patch.  So thank you very much Management at imsi.  Maybe you can re draw 200 CAD drawings and get them to the prototype shop by tomorrow AM EST.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 04:55:17 PM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 03:26:43 PM
#38
AND ANOTHER THING...

Why is IMSI selling me version 19.1 ALMOST A YEAR, after version 19.2 is available?

I just checked the problems section in the forum, and these problems were known about in APRIL of 2012.  I bought Turbocad Deluxe 19, in Jan 2013, nine months after these bugs were known.  So why did they not just incorporate these bug fixes in the copy I purchased - that they knew about for almost a year - prior to my download ?

It makes absolutely no sense.  No sense what so ever.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 04:24:33 PM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 03:33:54 PM
#39
AND ANOTHER THING...

Why is IMSI selling me version 19.1 ALMOST A YEAR, after version 19.2 is available?

I just checked the problems section in the forum, and these problems were known about in APRIL of 2012.  I bought Turbocad Deluxe 19, nine months after these bugs were known.  So why did they not just incorporate these bug fixes in the copy I purchased - that they knew about for almost a year - prior to my download ?

It makes absolutely no sense.  No sense what so ever.

Start on TurboCAD Forum home page, scroll down to 'File Library' > to Updates & Patches > Turbocad v.19 started by Turbotech....you should find the patch you need in that post..............well I hope you do.

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DonCW
2017 Pro with Light Works Plug in
2018 Platinum

Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


* May 12, 2013, 03:38:29 PM
#40
LOL!

I just downloaded the 19.2 update and it won't even install.  What a joke.

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* May 12, 2013, 03:48:14 PM
#41
LOL!

I just downloaded the 19.2 update and it won't even install.  What a joke.
19.2 won't install without 19.1....try the full build option.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 04:17:28 PM by DonCW »

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DonCW
2017 Pro with Light Works Plug in
2018 Platinum

Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


* May 12, 2013, 04:23:06 PM
#42
I have 19.1.

When I double click the full build file nothing happens.  Just saves it to PC, when I double click that XP says it can not open the file.

How is it possible I purchased and downloaded from IMSI an earlier build almost a year after the bug fixes for that early build were out?  why are they selling a buggy version 19.1 8 months after 19.2 is out ?

Don't get me wrong I am not coming down on anyone who has helped me the past few months, I am just upset that the managment at IMSI is not keeping their paid downloads up to date.  When I clicked buy I thought i was purchasing the latest - current version, not some early buggy 8 month old version and now I learn that I have to re do all of my drawings even if I can install the bug fix which as this point the install for the bug fix is not working.  Also sad to see my version was outdated just a couple of weeks after I bought it.

VERY frustrating.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 04:52:53 PM by nadsab »

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* May 12, 2013, 04:33:24 PM
#43
There have been some problem with the update path earlier, at least in Pro
So then i allways uninstall the old one first and install full every time i do a "update"

Edit befor sending :)
The file you download i assume is a zip file.
open the zipfile and doubleclick the .exe file and it should start if you have some kind of zip/ rar program on your computer


Torfinn

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* May 12, 2013, 04:51:38 PM
#44
I am going to have to call tech support tomorrow on this.  Once I start tinkering with an un install and then re install I bet there will be more issues to deal with.

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* May 12, 2013, 05:05:17 PM
#45
Yeah, with your " luck " lately i can understand that, things like this i normaly put on my "learning account" and try to forget later  ;)

Torfinn

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V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
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NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* May 12, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
#46
I am going to have to call tech support tomorrow on this.  Once I start tinkering with an un install and then re install I bet there will be more issues to deal with.

Good luck with it.

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DonCW
2017 Pro with Light Works Plug in
2018 Platinum

Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


* May 12, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
#47
They should put me on the beta tester list since I have spent so much time on this. I have equpiment they apparently don't test on maybe I could help :).  I was on Photoshop 7 beta team long long ago.

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May 13, 2013, 07:02:58 AM
#48
nadsab

Most Beta testers world wide have been long time end users since version 1 and have multiple of IMSI products versions on more than one PC and offer trouble shooting experience and been instrumental over the course of 27 year span.Few have written books,make tutorials,video instructions,build web pages, etc.Although I'm not active player in the forum I been following in the background for years since the old forum.What can you bring to the beta team?

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Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous impatience. Once implemented they can be easily overturned or subverted through apathy or lack of follow-up, so a continuous effort is required. Admiral Hyman G. Rickover


* May 14, 2013, 08:53:56 AM
#49
OK can anyone re create this same problem?  I upgraded yesterday to Turbocad 19.2, Build 54.2, using this on an XP machine with a Wacom tablet.  I was having this same exact problem with version 19.1.  Here it is drawing attached:

I drew the rod with keyway and it seems to have come out OK, in paperspace it looks good.  The problem starts happening afterward. Here is what went wrong with the snaps not properly snapping to the correct locations:

1. Using workplane by facet tool, choose rod end (smaller diameter) as workplane.
2. Set snap to vertex.
3. Using Triple point circle tool, create circle on (smaller) outside diameter of rod end tracing the OD.
3. Use workplane by facet tool to set workplane on opposite end of rod.
4.  Using triple point circle tool, create circle on opposite end of rod tracing outline of    outside diameter.
5.  Change snap to center.
6.  Using 3d polyline tool, draw line between two center points of end circles.
7.  Using workplane by facet tool, change work plane to smaller diameter rod end.
8.  Using angular construction line, snap first point to circle center.
9.  Change snap to middle point
10.  Snap to middle point of keyway floor or seat.
11.  Change snap to vertex.
12.  Snap second angular construction line to vertex of 3d polyline,
13.   Change snap to middle point
14.  Snap to the same middle point of keyway floor or seat.
15.  Zoom way, way in to the center of the circle-vertex of the polyline, and examine the location of the angular construction lines.  They do not intersect the vertex of the 3d polyline, of which was set as per above to be at the center of the circle.



So I tried re creating the same problem by just drawing a circle in the same drawing by:

1.  Draw a circle 1 inch diameter.
2.  Set snap to center.
3.  Using work plane by 3 point tool, snap origin to center of circle.
4.  Change snap to quadrant point
5.  Snap x and y axes of work plane to quadrants of circle.
6.   Change snap back to center.
7.   Using 3d Polyline tool, snap first point of polyline to circle center.
8    Enter in values of 0 for X and Y, and 1 for Z, so that polyline is perpendicular to circle and workplane.
9.  Using angular construction line, snap first point to circle center.
10.  Change snap to middle point
11.  Snap to middle point of keyway floor or seat.
12.  Change snap to vertex.
13.  Snap second angular construction line to vertex of 3d polyline,
14.   Change snap to middle point
15.  Snap to the same middle point of keyway floor or seat.

16.  Zoom way way in.  You can see that neither construction line intersect the vertex of the 3D poly line, despite the fact that the vertex of the 3d Polyline was snapped to the center of the circle.


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