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Will this render . .
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September 21, 2012, 07:29:02 AM
As a way of testing Animation lab, with v19 43.2 (32-bit),  and helping Alvin, I tried creating an animation of . . .

http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,9926.0.html

However, although the routine works in wire frame mode, it will not complete the full number of frames in full-rendered mode.  The programme just gets slower and slo slo sl ow.....e.........r  zzzzzzzzz!  . . . and then seizes up, with out of memory issues.  Usually this happens around frame 170  >:(

The time to finish, goes up and up, from 30 seconds to 6 hours, as does the memory usage.

Any ideas why this is happening?  Sort of makes a joke of doing anything serious, and, more complex.

I know I have used a lot of frames - this should not be an issue - as I have used many more than this in earlier TC versions.

Perhaps, it is not that compatible, with this version, after all?

Has Animation Lab. lost the plot?

Any help/suggestions always welcome.  My brain hertz!

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 01:49:18 PM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 21, 2012, 07:06:44 PM
#1
Well, it's been 3 hours and it's still plodding along. At Frame 418, TurboCAD just went above 3GB and my system at 16%. I figure TC will gobble up another 2GB by the time it's finished. Frame:429!! 291 to go.

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John R.

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* September 22, 2012, 02:20:56 AM
#2
Tim

Any particular setting or view you had in mind, I just tried the file and it rendered animation in 7 minutes using Win7 64 bit, but I didn't play with any settings, it made a 256Mb AVI - I'll try get the file just a touch smaller.

I know you asked for 32 bit test but couldn't resist giving it a try in 64bit

Andy
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 02:23:57 AM by Andy H »

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September 22, 2012, 05:22:00 AM
#3
Tim

Any particular setting or view you had in mind, I just tried the file and it rendered animation in 7 minutes using Win7 64 bit, but I didn't play with any settings, it made a 256Mb AVI - I'll try get the file just a touch smaller.

I know you asked for 32 bit test but couldn't resist giving it a try in 64bit

Andy

Hi Andy,

yes, that is what I would have expected.  32-bit would be a little slower, but not that much.  John is doing a test also, so, if he doesn't fall asleep, we'll have a different result to compare with.

The specific view rendered doesn't matter too much, but, I was trying full Quality Rendering of the same perspective shown in the wire frame animation (done to check the routine actually works).

If you can try this, if it is not what you have already done, then it would be appreciated.


Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 22, 2012, 08:06:49 AM
#4
Oh - oops

Sorry Tim I just checked and I had clicked the wrong render icon (I clicked draft - my apologies), just re-doing it in quality and first 100 frames took 10 minutes, but then things started to slow down and took 20 minutes to reach 150 frames, I'll leave it running and report the time, the memory use has reached 1Gb so far.

## Edit ## OK gave up on the render after 1 1/2 hours, and had a look at what could be causing the problem, it appears that it doesn't like your blocks, I selected your group of the wooden arm, went into group edit mode and exploded the three blocks (nails), re-did the animation using Lightworks full quality render and it animated in about 10 minutes.

May be worth giving it a try in your 32 bit version after exploding the blocks.  ## End Edity ##

Andy
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 09:25:28 AM by Andy H »

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* September 22, 2012, 10:48:30 AM
#5
I had the same experience as Andy H.  Using TCv19 64bit and Animation Lab 5.   Great detective work Andy.  After exploding the blocks memory usage was minimal and didn't increase much from the start.  I will need to look at my previous animations which were difficult to animate as I am a strong user of blocks....

Johnny

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* September 22, 2012, 01:24:47 PM
#6
I don't think I'll try one of these files anytime soon. It took 8½ hours the first time 'round, but it never made an AVI file. I found a DAT file in "My Animation", but nothing else. Did some other stuff, then ran it again. It took 10+ hours and it generated an animation. I see Andy's "Explode" remark and tried that; 10-15 minutes, done. Who knew??? The program did use a lot of RAM before the explosion (6GB) and hardly anything afterwards. Either way generated a 475MB AVI.

The only thing that I can think of is that the Block is comprised of 2D and 3D objects and the unnecessary 2D objects are generating a "Workplane error" message every time they're moved. TC waits, then continues on. I'm probably all wrong on this.

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September 23, 2012, 11:23:28 AM
#7
Johnny/John R/Andy H,

Thanks guys for testing and resolving(?)  All very frustrating!  ::)

Please, could one of you possibly post your file just after blocks were exploded, so that I can test this with XP on 32-bit system.  Many thanks.

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 11:43:04 AM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
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* September 23, 2012, 12:04:41 PM
#8
sure


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September 23, 2012, 12:36:30 PM
#9
sure

Thank you Sir! - I'll get back to this tomorrow.  ::)


**EDIT** well, this exact same file does it in 14 minutes, on an eight-year-old 32-bit XP machine, so that compares favourably, IMHO.  Now, what did I really want to do today?

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:15:30 AM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 23, 2012, 02:14:42 PM
#10
Here's an animation of the file. I did some minor editing and changed the lights to Luminances. I 'upped' the size of the animation to 1280×720, which took a half-hour to render and produced an AVI file just under 2GB. I ran that through Camtasia and got a reasonable 1.25MB MP4 movie which can be found here on YouTube: http://youtu.be/MgqKcehEjlA. I did find that the shadow for the tracing pin comes and goes. Most likely some sort of LightWorks BUG.

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John R.

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September 24, 2012, 01:56:49 AM
#11
Hi John,

thanks for your efforts.  You have finally 'nailed' the animation ;D !

Hopefully, this is what Alvin, http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,9926.0.html, was looking for?

I wasn't interested in the animation of a trammel, as such, only why it wouldn't, when it wouldn't work, if that makes sense.

Just shows how such a seemingly simple mechanism might cause so much hassle.

All that needs doing . . . . is . . . . . no, no, no....., that's enough, for now!

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 02:01:26 AM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 24, 2012, 03:03:18 AM
#12
re: All that needs doing . . . . is . . . .

Yep. I got caught up in that for a bit. Try this piece of wood, that piece of flooring, etc. I realized while watching one of the videos that the Perspective needed to be turned off. It made the tracing nail look like it was off the path.

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John R.

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September 24, 2012, 03:10:07 AM
#13
The trick is knowing when to stop . . . .

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 24, 2012, 04:05:10 AM
#14
Looking at this in an isometric view shows an error in the animation; it jumps up.  ;D

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September 24, 2012, 05:37:15 AM
#15
Looking at this in an isometric view shows an error in the animation; it jumps up.  ;D

Ah yes, I see.  That's probably my fault, as I was only interested, originally, in animating the operation from plan view and hadn't noticed a Z shift.  This will probably be the reason that the shadows are not consistent.  Sigh, back to the drawing board! 

Unless you're feeling keen, I'll remedy this a.s.a.p. 
I have also been toying with the idea of animating the scribe mark into the plywood.  What did I start?  ???

It certainly looks more impressive, in the isometric view.

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


* September 24, 2012, 06:33:59 AM
#16
You will also se this "hicckup" inside Youtube


Torfinn

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September 24, 2012, 09:02:08 AM
#17
You will also se this "hicckup" inside Youtube


Torfinn

Yes. it's jut visible, if you look carefully!

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


September 24, 2012, 09:28:47 AM
#18
Now, I have just tried to edit this animation, to remove the jump up the Z axis shown in John's render, http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9947.0;attach=23358, from frame 177 onwards.  Whatever I do, just confuses Animation Lab., which simply refuses to work properly and appears to have a mind of it's own!  I don't remember it behaving like this before.

1.  If you select all the offending frames, from 177 to the end, and try setting actor to the WorkPlane, this fails.

2.  If you try selecting all the frames, from 177 to the end, and delete them, this appears to work.

3.  If you try to continue the animation, from frame 177 onwards, by moving the actor upwards and rotating (plan view), this fails.  Animation lab just goes haywire!

4.  Also - I think this is an old problem, because I recall mentioning it before  - the scroll bars/frame numbers do not correspond.  This can sometimes be overcome by grabbing the scrollbar with the mouse and moving it sideways.

5.  Again, this could be an older issue, the keyboard shortcuts do not work in Animation Lab., all commands have to be mouse activated.

Phew, am I having a great time?

I think this Plugin (and me!) need some TLC (Tender Loving Care)!

Regards Tim
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 09:30:57 AM by Tim Stewart »

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


September 25, 2012, 08:51:25 PM
#19
Wow, you guys are sure amazing when it comes to helping sort issues out. It is too bad that this posed so many issues for Animation Lab.


September 26, 2012, 07:14:09 AM
#20
Hi Don,

it's a bit like dogs with bones.  ::)

Although TC has improved with leaps and bounds, the plug-ins have got a little bit neglected, IMHO.  This is a shame, if true, as for those of us that like to use these tools, it can be somewhat frustrating.

We all like to help when we can, as you have done many times, but sometimes it's like chasing a ball downhill!

Regards Tim

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You can design without engineering, but you cannot engineer without design.
Using Win 10 with Designer 2016/2017 and TurboCAD Pro. Plat. 2018/2019 + Lightworks (64-bit versions) + AnimationLab 5.2.
Windows 10 Pro 1903 (Build 18362.476) 64-bit


September 27, 2012, 10:12:50 AM
#21
Hey!!- Thanks everyone for working so hard on creating this Animation.  I know that it quickly jumped from a "let's help Alvin create an animation of his trammel/ellipse file" to a "let's get more educated and gain a better understanding of working with Animation Lab and any possible bugs" thing; but all of your works contributed to my actually getting my How to Draw an Ellipse Using a 2x4 as a Trammel animated (animation:  a great way to illustrate a construction technique).

Tim replied to my earlier Post- asking for someone to create an animation for me, using my .tcw file- with the link to the YouTube video; I appreciated that.  I think that both the Plan View animation and the Isometric View animation (absent the Z-field jump) function well in communicating to others in the construction industry; I already shared the link with some of my carpenter friends.

Thanks a bunch everyone... and to you especially, Tim, for being so tenacious in getting this thing figured out.  (I see in a future Topic-Post that you are still working on it; I know... it's hard to let go when you don't have the exact answer for what you are trying to achieve--- Good Luck).

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


September 27, 2012, 10:25:34 AM
#22
Hey!!- Thanks everyone for working so hard on creating this Animation.  I know that it quickly jumped from a "let's help Alvin create an animation of his trammel/ellipse file" to a "let's get more educated and gain a better understanding of working with Animation Lab and any possible bugs" thing; but all of your works contributed to my actually getting my How to Draw an Ellipse Using a 2x4 as a Trammel animated (animation:  a great way to illustrate a construction technique).

Tim replied to my earlier Post- asking for someone to create an animation for me, using my .tcw file- with the link to the YouTube video; I appreciated that.  I think that both the Plan View animation and the Isometric View animation (absent the Z-field jump) function well in communicating to others in the construction industry; I already shared the link with some of my carpenter friends.

Thanks a bunch everyone... and to you especially, Tim, for being so tenacious in getting this thing figured out.  (I see in a future Topic-Post that you are still working on it; I know... it's hard to let go when you don't have the exact answer for what you are trying to achieve--- Good Luck).

-Alvin

This topic was contagious. I hope you don't mind that I tried it in my other program to see how it would work. It went well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jve1uiAMLx0&feature=plcp
I hesitated posting this because I don't want anyone to think I am promoting the other program. I am just interested and I am not opposed to using other tools if one has them available. And as I always say, TurboCAD is way better in some regards when compared to others and sometimes it is needlessly difficult in TC.


September 27, 2012, 11:37:31 AM
#23

This topic was contagious. I hope you don't mind that I tried it in my other program to see how it would work. It went well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jve1uiAMLx0&feature=plcp
I hesitated posting this because I don't want anyone to think I am promoting the other program. I am just interested and I am not opposed to using other tools if one has them available. And as I always say, TurboCAD is way better in some regards when compared to others and sometimes it is needlessly difficult in TC.

Cool Stuff Don.  It's a little fast for the average apprentice/intermediate carpenter to follow along- but really cool.

Could you put it on a 4'x6'x2'tall tub platform, sitting on a floor, with two walls intersecting at 90° in the back corner?... maybe a glass-block window in one of the walls....

----
Tim asked for this earlier, but:  It would be really cool to have the "scratch" that is the ellipse happen with the "scratching nail"- i.e.➜ the ellipse doesn't "appear"- or is a 2D dashed-line- until the nail actually scratches the surface (there has to be a way of going about that...)

----
There's got to be some money able to be made with these "actual construction" animated videos...
I'm thinking of the very popular homeowner project (in my area) Patio Cover; a custom 3D Patio Cover with all the parts labeled and then animated- with a voice-over- on how to complete the project.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


September 27, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
#24

This topic was contagious. I hope you don't mind that I tried it in my other program to see how it would work. It went well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jve1uiAMLx0&feature=plcp
I hesitated posting this because I don't want anyone to think I am promoting the other program. I am just interested and I am not opposed to using other tools if one has them available. And as I always say, TurboCAD is way better in some regards when compared to others and sometimes it is needlessly difficult in TC.

Cool Stuff Don.  It's a little fast for the average apprentice/intermediate carpenter to follow along- but really cool.

Could you put it on a 4'x6'x2'tall tub platform, sitting on a floor, with two walls intersecting at 90° in the back corner?... maybe a glass-block window in one of the walls....

----
Tim asked for this earlier, but:  It would be really cool to have the "scratch" that is the ellipse happen with the "scratching nail"- i.e.➜ the ellipse doesn't "appear"- or is a 2D dashed-line- until the nail actually scratches the surface (there has to be a way of going about that...)

----
There's got to be some money able to be made with these "actual construction" animated videos...
I'm thinking of the very popular homeowner project (in my area) Patio Cover; a custom 3D Patio Cover with all the parts labeled and then animated- with a voice-over- on how to complete the project.

-Alvin

I don't know how to make the ellipse appear only as it is scribed, but that would be cool. I asked on the other forum if any one knew how but I have had no response yet.

This 30 second animation took 11 minutes to render save at 24 frames per second. http://youtu.be/ZVQnXnsunFM


September 27, 2012, 02:15:39 PM
#25

I don't know how to make the ellipse appear only as it is scribed, but that would be cool. I asked on the other forum if any one knew how but I have had no response yet.

This 30 second animation took 11 minutes to render save at 24 frames per second. http://youtu.be/ZVQnXnsunFM

Yeah.  The walls and tub platform give it some "context"; and slowing the movement down some helps to visualize and comprehend what's going on.  That's good stuff.  Thanks Don.  I guess neither Animation Lab nor the other program are "powerful" enough to animate a full/quality rendering?  -Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


September 27, 2012, 02:34:50 PM
#26

I don't know how to make the ellipse appear only as it is scribed, but that would be cool. I asked on the other forum if any one knew how but I have had no response yet.

This 30 second animation took 11 minutes to render save at 24 frames per second. http://youtu.be/ZVQnXnsunFM

Yeah.  The walls and tub platform give it some "context"; and slowing the movement down some helps to visualize and comprehend what's going on.  That's good stuff.  Thanks Don.  I guess neither Animation Lab nor the other program are "powerful" enough to animate a full/quality rendering?  -Alvin

The other program can, but it would take considerable time.


* September 27, 2012, 03:07:35 PM
#27
Nice work and video example Don, and as you say the other program is good, but Turbocad also has it's strong points, the move to 64 bit has been a major move for IMSI this year, and not without hiccups, but we should all advance from here on in.

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* September 27, 2012, 09:56:43 PM
#28
Just thought I'd have a go, though I changed the scriber (nail) to a pencil, there are some errors but its not too bad, (in mpeg2 as its the only thing I had to get file siize under 1Mb).

Andy

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September 28, 2012, 05:42:24 AM
#29
Just thought I'd have a go, though I changed the scriber (nail) to a pencil, there are some errors but its not too bad, (in mpeg2 as its the only thing I had to get file siize under 1Mb).

Andy

Looks good Andy.  I thought of making the "scriber" a Sharpie- a hole drilled in the 2x4 the exact diameter of a Sharpie, then insert the Sharpie into it; that would make a much clearer scribe-line on the plywood tub-deck.  The reason I opted to stay with nails in all three points was that most framers ("framing-carpenters" or "rough-carpenters") don't carry a drill with them in their truck- let alone a Sharpie; that would discourage them from accepting or adopting this method.

A couple of questions:
  • Why is the tub cut-out on the plywood polygonal and not an actual ellipse?
  • And why do the axes not actually go all the way to the scribe-line? (which is what an ellipse actually is); and,
  • How did you get the scribe line to appear only as it was being scribed?

Thanks, Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* September 28, 2012, 07:26:36 AM
#30
Hi Alvin

1) & 2). Sorry I used a bit of 'imagination', I think of it like doing an oval picture cover (surround), in that the box / axes is used for different sized ovals, the venear centre is cut out so it can retain for future projects, another option would have been to put the axes like a template on top of the venear so no need to cut out the middle.

As I say - sorry its not accurate - was just doing something different to show that TC can produce something which works.

3). quite simple in theory, its an eliptical arc as an actor and node edited at each keyframe to 'roughly' match the wooden arm, it does have a problem with having 'non-renderable objects' ticked, in that changing view means altering the nodes to match so the arc deosn't show above the arm too much, a much better option would have been to give the arc a small thickness then non-rendarable could have been left unticked (but I didn't thin of it last night).

Andy

 

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September 28, 2012, 07:43:14 AM
#31
Just thought I'd have a go, though I changed the scriber (nail) to a pencil, there are some errors but its not too bad, (in mpeg2 as its the only thing I had to get file siize under 1Mb).

Andy

Nice job Andy!


September 28, 2012, 07:49:19 AM
#32
Hi Alvin

1) & 2). Sorry I used a bit of 'imagination', I think of it like doing an oval picture cover (surround), in that the box / axes is used for different sized ovals, the venear centre is cut out so it can retain for future projects, another option would have been to put the axes like a template on top of the venear so no need to cut out the middle.

As I say - sorry its not accurate - was just doing something different to show that TC can produce something which works.

3). quite simple in theory, its an eliptical arc as an actor and node edited at each keyframe to 'roughly' match the wooden arm, it does have a problem with having 'non-renderable objects' ticked, in that changing view means altering the nodes to match so the arc deosn't show above the arm too much, a much better option would have been to give the arc a small thickness then non-rendarable could have been left unticked (but I didn't thin of it last night).

Andy


Cool.  I like the ellipse being shown as it's drawn effect; just much more easy to communicate the (drawing an ellipse using a 2x4 as a trammel) method.  Thanks Andy.  -Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)