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Turbo Talk => Gallery => Topic started by: timB on October 05, 2011, 11:23:47 AM

Title: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 05, 2011, 11:23:47 AM
Hi Everyone,

I'm pretty new to TC, but have learned a great deal already from this forum and its members.

I am modeling a machine shop tool called the Versatile Dividing Head. This tool was designed by the late Geo. H. Thomas. The tool consists of several cast iron and many machined parts of steel and brass. If anyone is interested, there are many images on the net.

Progress so far is the main body in the form of a pattern that will be used for casting. The pattern was derived from measured drawings. From this current drawing I will start the 'machining' process and add the other components.

This brings up several questions relating to the size of the project. I expect that I will have several hundred layers and probably close to a hundred parts. I like to work in TC with discrete objects and their 2d profiles on separate layers. The drawing area is less cluttered and I find it much easier to work this way. The part you see in my render is made of nine separate 3d forms. I copied each of these objects to a single layer before adding them together; just makes sense to have a back up close by.

In the end, I will have many measured drawings and renders.

Will I be running up against TC's limitations working like this???
Any suggestion on workflow and organizing a large project like this would be appreciated. I'm a newb, remember?

I have Thomas's book that describes the VDH with measured drawings and construction methods. My dream is to manufacture this gem from making the castings to turning the last part.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 05, 2011, 12:02:50 PM
opps!

I think I posted this to the wrong sub forum. Mods, please move if needed.

sorry my mistake.
T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Kenneth Martin on October 05, 2011, 01:32:47 PM
you posted a picture. It should be "Gallery" worthy  ;D
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: The CAD man on October 05, 2011, 03:46:27 PM
Tim,

Your project is coming along well, wonderful for a Newbie.  I can't help you much with your questions but others here certainly can.  I look forward to seeing the model take shape and finally being turned into a working prototype.  Keep us informed eh?

Gaz
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 06, 2011, 12:10:45 AM
thanX CAD man. I will try to keep this post updated.

... in the mean time, I'm reading the tcw manual.

There are some facilities in tc for organizing data; blocks, symbols, groups, xrefs, and libraries. I think I may organize the project in a file directory structure. The top level will be the name of the project. As I finalize drawing sub-assemblies, their tcw files will go in the top level. Any associated files will go in a directory named after the sub-assembly. If I can keep everything localized like this it will be easier to manage and portable.

For the final render and presentation, I will use tc's facilities for sharing data between files. Not sure how that will work exactly since I am still reading.

Just to add interest for you all. I will mention that I'm running tc18 pro in win7 x64. Windoz is running under vmware on a Mac Pro desktop machine. It work very nice, I have the best of both worlds at my finger tips, anytime.

T

Title: Making progress
Post by: timB on October 11, 2011, 03:26:23 PM
Made many changes to my drawing of the cast iron pattern.

This version is closer to the drawings I have and closer to reality, i think. I still need to tweak some here and there, but it's progress. Of course this is far from finished. I wanted to get some idea of how it would render so I could make adjustments to my drawing appropriately.

I'm learning more and more about tc every time I fire it up  ;D
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: wd on October 11, 2011, 03:33:29 PM
can't wait see the final assemblage ;D
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 11, 2011, 03:54:46 PM
can't wait see the final assemblage

I can't either!
I hoping this is the most complex part; the rest of the items are not so free form.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Henry Hubich on October 11, 2011, 07:35:10 PM
can't wait see the final assemblage

I can't either!
I hoping this is the most complex part; the rest of the items are not so free form.

T

Beautiful job so far.

Henry H
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: The CAD man on October 12, 2011, 01:42:25 AM
It's come a long way already, keep at it.

Gaz
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 12, 2011, 04:42:56 AM
thanX for the encouragement Henry & Gaz.

I'm having problems with 3d fillet working in a reliable and repeatable fashion. Maybe I will post a file and the problem soon.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 12, 2011, 06:34:15 AM
I'm having problems with 3d fillet working in a reliable and repeatable fashion. Maybe I will post a file and the problem soon.

Actually, I found my error. Error in my ways ::)
I always have layer 0 visible, but should have been doing all this work on layer 0, instead of an alternate layer. Problems gone and performance greatly improved.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Brad Easterday on October 12, 2011, 06:58:00 PM
Good work with the render.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Stefaan on October 13, 2011, 10:20:08 AM
I like it, the rendering is fine.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 13, 2011, 11:42:01 AM
Good work with the render.

thanX Brad!

Looking at your work and of others here, I have sure have a level of quailty to reach for.  ;)

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 13, 2011, 11:45:01 AM
I like it, the rendering is fine.

Just a beginning... Stay tuned, more to come. Thank you.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Orion20036 on October 13, 2011, 03:08:29 PM
When you get to your final hi res render Tim, every byte counts, so save your file as another version, and strip it of everything except the model, this will let you get the max out of memory when rendering, and may allow you to up the acis settings.

Looking good so far!.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Don Cheke on October 17, 2011, 07:38:05 AM
Your model looks great Tim.

One thing you might want to keep in mind as you progress is TC's ability to apply separate materials to individual facets. This way you show any machined faces of the cast component as smooth.
Title: Making Progress
Post by: timB on October 18, 2011, 06:15:04 PM
First of all...

Thanks Michael G. for the memory tip. I sure that will be useful in the future. Don C., I had exactly that in mind, as you can see in my current version. The first render is actually a pattern, painted, and it would be in an un-machined state.

So here is the casting with its machined surfaces, sitting on a drawing that was also done in tc. The drawing was a ton of work. I'm satisfied with the results, but still need to tweak a few things.

Now to move on to the next part...

T
Title: Re: Making Progress
Post by: DonCW on October 18, 2011, 07:22:30 PM
So here is the casting with its machined surfaces, sitting on a drawing that was also done in tc. The drawing was a ton of work. I'm satisfied with the results, but still need to tweak a few things.

Now to move on to the next part...

T

This part looks great Tim, it'll be great to see the next part.
Title: Re: Making Progress
Post by: Henry Hubich on October 18, 2011, 07:52:07 PM
First of all...

Thanks Michael G. for the memory tip. I sure that will be useful in the future. Don C., I had exactly that in mind, as you can see in my current version. The first render is actually a pattern, painted, and it would be in an un-machined state.

So here is the casting with its machined surfaces, sitting on a drawing that was also done in tc. The drawing was a ton of work. I'm satisfied with the results, but still need to tweak a few things.

Now to move on to the next part...

T

Excellent.

Henry H
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Don Cheke on October 18, 2011, 08:26:29 PM
So here is the casting with its machined surfaces, sitting on a drawing that was also done in tc.

Fantastic presentation!
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Brad Easterday on October 18, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
That looks great Tim! Nice work.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 19, 2011, 07:02:44 AM
Ok guys, I really appreciate the kind words, but I have a long ways to go before coming close to the quality of work I see you do. I have some ideas of how I want to present the final render and when I get there I will need your constructive criticism  ;D

Don Cheke, I have to say I learned a great deal from your tutorials, thanX. The best teacher is of course experience. I have spent WAY TO MUCH time working on this drawing. So now that I have neglected domestic duties, you may not hear from me for a short while. I promise to post an update here in the near future.

The paperspace:
Title: Small progress today.
Post by: timB on October 24, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Hi all,

Added a few more items to the dividing head and played with lighting/materials a bit. My head is starting to hurt, so I am posting this image and going to bed.  ;D

Still much to do, but little by little it's getting there. The biggest hurtle is learning TurboCAD and how to work efficiently. By the way, you can download CAD files in a number of formats @ http://mcmastercarr.com ,if you didn't know. I used several SAT files for hardware in this project already.

T
Title: Re: Small progress today.
Post by: Henry Hubich on October 24, 2011, 09:33:08 PM
Hi all,

Added a few more items to the dividing head and played with lighting/materials a bit. My head is starting to hurt, so I am posting this image and going to bed.  ;D

Still much to do, but little by little it's getting there. The biggest hurtle is learning TurboCAD and how to work efficiently. By the way, you can download CAD files in a number of formats @ http://mcmastercarr.com ,if you didn't know. I used several SAT files for hardware in this project already.

T

Lookin' good. I especially like the lighting.

Henry H
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Don Cheke on October 24, 2011, 10:11:29 PM
Hi all,

Added a few more items to the dividing head and played with lighting/materials a bit. My head is starting to hurt, so I am posting this image and going to bed.  ;D

Still much to do, but little by little it's getting there. The biggest hurtle is learning TurboCAD and how to work efficiently. By the way, you can download CAD files in a number of formats @ http://mcmastercarr.com ,if you didn't know. I used several SAT files for hardware in this project already.

T

Looks great! Each new details adds nicely to the scene.
Title: Re: Small progress today.
Post by: The CAD man on October 25, 2011, 03:04:05 PM
Added a few more items to ...

It's looking great Tim

Gaz
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on October 26, 2011, 04:31:04 AM
I've been away from my desk for several days and didn't see the replies to my latest post. I really appreciate the encouragement. I't like fuel for the fire.

thanX
T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: DonCW on October 26, 2011, 06:08:55 AM
I've been away from my desk for several days and didn't see the replies to my latest post. I really appreciate the encouragement. I't like fuel for the fire.

thanX
T

It looks great Tim. You may want to consider entering it in the 2012 TurboCad Challenge.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Brad Easterday on October 26, 2011, 10:43:17 AM
Nice work all around Tim!
Title: Almost Finished with the Basic Dividing Head
Post by: timB on November 01, 2011, 04:23:42 PM
Just an update so you know I haven't been sitting idle.  ;D

Did a great deal of experimentation with xRef and came up with a workflow that seems doable. I decided on a naming scheme with part numbers. Each part/part group in its own file. Within each file, each part on its own layer named partNumber_partName. Nothing in any file on layer 0, but 0 is always active. One level of xRefs in the file where all parts are collected/assembled. See attached screen shot of the palette where I assembled the basic head.

Created some panoramic hdr images in Photoshop; seems to have worked. Actually, I started by making some jpeg panos and then went to a 32b hdr image. Big difference in the render quality.

I need to start making materials that will look like machined metal. If any one can point me in the right direction to good documentation, I would be very grateful. I have Henry's book and will start there. thanX Henry  ;)

This is really getting to be addictive!

edit: I should say that this render took only 10 minutes, so the shadows look a little choppy.

T
Title: Re: Almost Finished with the Basic Dividing Head
Post by: DonCW on November 01, 2011, 04:52:00 PM
Just an update so you know I haven't been sitting idle.  ;D

Did a great deal of experimentation with xRef and came up with a workflow that seems doable. I decided on a naming scheme with part numbers. Each part/part group in its own file. Within each file, each part on its own layer named partNumber_partName. Nothing in any file on layer 0, but 0 is always active. One level of xRefs in the file where all parts are collected/assembled. See attached screen shot of the palette where I assembled the basic head.

Created some panoramic hdr images in Photoshop; seems to have worked. Actually, I started by making some jpeg panos and then went to a 32b hdr image. Big difference in the render quality.

I need to start making materials that will look like machined metal. If any one can point me in the right direction to good documentation, I would be very grateful. I have Henry's book and will start there. thanX Henry  ;)

This is really getting to be addictive!

edit: I should say that this render took only 10 minutes, so the shadows look a little choppy.

T

Two thumbs up for the great render Tim. :-)
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 01, 2011, 05:36:37 PM
Don, thank you kindly.

Hey, i'm a noob at this, but I hope someone will benefit from this post and the evolution of this project. More to come...

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: The CAD man on November 01, 2011, 07:00:23 PM
...newbie?  ...rubbish!   If my first drawings were half this good I'd be a wealthy man by now!  ;D Well done.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 02:07:28 AM
Seriously! I just spend a lot of quality time with my computer. :D :D :D

thanX for lookin' Garry.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Orion20036 on November 02, 2011, 03:57:20 AM
Great job on this Tim, materials look good , lighting, and really like your use of layer groups also. 
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Kenneth Martin on November 02, 2011, 04:01:18 AM
Really nice render. This dont look like a noob did this. What other software do you have experience with?
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 06:08:18 AM
Really nice render. This dont look like a noob did this. What other software do you have experience with?

ahhhhh... DOS
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 06:15:33 AM
Great job on this Tim, materials look good , lighting, and really like your use of layer groups also. 

Michael,
Layer groups. Trying to tap some of the power of tc and make the project a little easier to manage.

thanX for the comments

T
Title: Knurled Knob
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 07:42:00 AM
A little experiment this morning:
  The brass knob needs to be knurled. I though about applying a bump map, but decided a real knurl would be nicer. Unfortunately, that adds a megabyte to the file for just that one knob. :o Not counting the profiles, of course.

Sure looks nice though.

T
Title: Re: Knurled Knob
Post by: Orion20036 on November 02, 2011, 08:23:58 AM
A little experiment this morning:
  The brass knob needs to be knurled. I though about applying a bump map, but decided a real knurl would be nicer. Unfortunately, that adds a megabyte to the file for just that one knob. :o Not counting the profiles, of course.

Sure looks nice though.

T

I had a few problems with teeth on this years Turbocad Challenge eating up the memory, so decided on creating a block of a small group of teeth, then arrayed the block, which appeared to make a massive difference, maybe you could do the same with a section of knurl.

Here is the image with teeth that I was referring to.

http://www.textualcreations.ca/TurboCAD%20Challenge%202011%20Entry_Files/Michael_Geraghty_Sextant.jpg
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 08:42:41 AM
Michael,

Thanks for hint! I haven't investigated arrays in TurboCAD; I sure will now.

Here is how I did it.
I made a 2d profile of one tooth. Radial copied it around a circle. Join polyline. Twisted extrude -30 degrees the polyline and another larger circle to get cylinder with a hole shaped like the teeth. Did the same at +30 degrees. Subtract each from the knob. TC took some minutes to preform the second subtract operation with 47 teeth.

Pretty much how a machinist would do, that is using a set of knurling tools, one left hand, the other right hand. Kind of did the 2d work to real world specs.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Orion20036 on November 02, 2011, 09:43:25 AM
Michael,

Thanks for hint! I haven't investigated arrays in TurboCAD; I sure will now.

Here is how I did it.
I made a 2d profile of one tooth. Radial copied it around a circle. Join polyline. Twisted extrude -30 degrees the polyline and another larger circle to get cylinder with a hole shaped like the teeth. Did the same at +30 degrees. Subtract each from the knob. TC took some minutes to preform the second subtract operation with 47 teeth.

Pretty much how a machinist would do, that is using a set of knurling tools, one left hand, the other right hand. Kind of did the 2d work to real world specs.

T

Sorry Tim, the radial copy is a form of circular array, and is what I was talking about, but using just a section of knurl turned into a block and then radial copied, only one instance of the block is in the drawing with multiple references, hence a smaller file.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 02, 2011, 11:19:20 AM
Ohhh, ok, I get it now.

But... and maybe you have an idea. The final result, the knob, is what makes the file size large. I copied just the finished knob to the file it is used in, not the profiles or objects used in making it. The file which contains the parts you see in the render I posted above is 1394 kb. Not that bad I guess.

If I could put a 30 degree sweep in just one tooth like a knurling wheel, your idea would work nicely. Thanks Michael, I really appreciate your suggestions.

Here is one of the knurls that was subtracted from the knob and an image of an actual knurling wheel.

T
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Stefaan on November 07, 2011, 10:05:49 AM
Fantastic Update Tim.
Title: Re: Almost Finished with the Basic Dividing Head
Post by: Brad Easterday on November 07, 2011, 12:19:36 PM
Just an update so you know I haven't been sitting idle.  ;D

Did a great deal of experimentation with xRef and came up with a workflow that seems doable. I decided on a naming scheme with part numbers. Each part/part group in its own file. Within each file, each part on its own layer named partNumber_partName. Nothing in any file on layer 0, but 0 is always active. One level of xRefs in the file where all parts are collected/assembled. See attached screen shot of the palette where I assembled the basic head.

Created some panoramic hdr images in Photoshop; seems to have worked. Actually, I started by making some jpeg panos and then went to a 32b hdr image. Big difference in the render quality.

I need to start making materials that will look like machined metal. If any one can point me in the right direction to good documentation, I would be very grateful. I have Henry's book and will start there. thanX Henry  ;)

This is really getting to be addictive!

edit: I should say that this render took only 10 minutes, so the shadows look a little choppy.

T

Tim, this really looks great. Nice work again.
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: Darrel Durose on November 10, 2011, 02:51:24 PM
Very good, you look like a well seasoned TC user to me......well done :-)

Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: timB on November 10, 2011, 03:47:42 PM
Darrel,
Actually, i'm a lot better photographer than tc user. I know how i want it to look, at least. This tool is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship, NOT BY ME. I pretty much followed the drawings that i have for it and don't take credit for any of it. I'm just enjoying building it in TC!

thanX
Title: Re: A beginners project -- need comments & suggestions
Post by: The CAD man on November 12, 2011, 01:57:57 PM
Tim,

Like yourself, many of us were or are photographers, I think it makes you a better CAD artist as you can "see" what you want the final product to look like, materials, lighting, poses...  Good job

Gaz