## Turbo Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: NigelG on March 19, 2019, 12:54:54 PM

Title: What Do Layers, Groups and Workplanes Do In 2D?
Post by: NigelG on March 19, 2019, 12:54:54 PM
Afore I abandon CAD as for professionals-only...

Trying to design an enclosed, vertical steam-engine that has to fit in the confines of a miniature steam-wagon, I am plagued by a lot of fundamental TurboCAD problems.

This is 2D only. I cannot understand 3D model-drawing, but it would not help anyway as I need orthographic projection to be able to design, fit together and dimension a lot of bits and shaped around each other as I go.

Work-planes: I assumed an orthographic drawing can only reside on one work-plane (nominally [x,y,0] ), but parts of my drawing drift onto hidden, private work-planes. I see no definite pattern to this, but I suspect something to do with groups or Layers.
So why does it happen and how do I stop it happening?

Groups: Sometimes I need to use a grouped object as a shadow part to design the parts around it. If I copy it from another view in what's now a sprawl along the Model Space, it replaces its original line properties with those of its new home, making that hard to read. Yet the tool-bar says it still has its original colour and line thickness.
Do groups occupy a layer of their own, hidden from view; or a parallel work-plane in Z?
How can I edit them so they don't crowd the drawing?

Layers: I use just two, plus TC's own for construction-lines. One holds the dimensions (which I also find very difficult) and centre-lines; the other is for the parts outlines.
Title: Re: What Do Layers, Groups and Workplanes Do In 2D?
Post by: Henry Hubich on March 19, 2019, 01:57:33 PM
You've given us a lot to digest there, Nigel. For starters:

1. Groups do reside on Layer 0 unless you take definite steps to place them elsewhere.

2. For that reason--among others--Layer 0 should not be turned OFF.

3. When you copy a Group and move it to a new home (and I assume that means a new location in the drawing), how do you know that it replaces its original line properties with those of the new home?

Henry H
Title: Re: What Do Layers, Groups and Workplanes Do In 2D?
Post by: murray dickinson on March 19, 2019, 06:55:59 PM
No, groups and layers don't change workplanes.  Differing workplanes are for what's called "UCS", user coordinate systems, and they're useful for 3D.  There are also occasions when users might want to move the origin on the standard orthographic plan view, and that constitutes a change of workplane, even though it shares the notional Z value of the standard World workplane, the grid is then naturally located differently.

There's no puritanism in using few layers.  It's not advantageous, don't be intimidated.
Title: Re: What Do Layers, Groups and Workplanes Do In 2D?
Post by: Mike90RR on March 19, 2019, 09:24:12 PM
Considering the 100's of tools that can be accidentally selected, along with 3D workplanes being altered when only working in 2D, along with 2 types / Styles of Selector > being 2D Selector or 3D Selector.

It would be best to say that .....
1: If you are seeing or have been using 3D Selector (can't miss > it shows XYZ instead of 2D XY) ... then 3D selector will give Worplane changes.
Solution > Select All >> and place on Workplane. >> Ensure Selector only shows XY

2: If you have been using DWG files that are 3D ... or any file that has a 3D element to it >> Then that will also change the position of the workplane of your 2D drawing
Solution >> Change Selector to 3D > Select all > On the bottom inspector bar is ... Size X Size Y Size Z << Size Z should be "0"
If not .... then
A:  Find the 3D element by rotaing the drawing and then make its Zed "0"
B:  Then > Select All >> and place on Workplane. >> Ensure Selector only shows XY

3: If you want to just about guarantee a 2D world >> Draw everything in Paper Space Sheet 1 >>> As this is purely a 2D world and No 3D tools are active.

You can then Copy and Paste complete parts to Model Space.
Or ... Set out ALL the drawing in PaperSpace 1 .... Then just duplicate infinite amounts paperspaces for print (Total avoiding Model Space and a 3D world)

4: if you want to really sort out the issue at large >> Post your TC file for others to ID the problem / Solution

Cheers
Mike

Title: Re: What Do Layers, Groups and Workplanes Do In 2D?
Post by: NigelG on March 20, 2019, 08:22:52 AM
Thank you all.

I keep Layer 0 on all the time - in fact I am using it, but I had no idea it held anything other what I had deliberately put there: the centre-lines and dimensions.
I'm not trying to be "puritanical" in restricting myself to just 2 layers - I know they have their uses but I am trying to keep things simple.

I know the 2D/3D Selector. I used it to see if somehow I had placed something somewhere "above" the rest of the drawing. I hadn't, which made this work-plane business all the more baffling.  I tried that "Select all > Place on Workplane" but it didn't re-set the troublesome parts.

I'm not sure what I hoped to see, but I turned on "Show Workplane". It did - as a small square over part of one view, so not very informative. I turned it off again.

I am not using any but the default file-type, as I am not importing drawings from other software. I'll leave that to the experts!

I considered drawing only on the Paper Space screen but I thought I would not be able to work as I do: a series of main and derived views.
If the Model Space so far for this engine, which is less than a foot long, was drawn in real size it would be some 6 feet long. That's because I made the General Arrangement's front and end elevations at the left-hand end, then construct across to draw the individual parts; with key centre-lines like the crankshaft's, and the overall heights, all consistent.

I had drawn the crankshaft on its own. In elevation it's a chain of rectangles but I then copied it down the same page to group it, for copying to the main drawings. I was able to "shadow it" (thin green, dashed outline) but found I had to do that on its original, and then only by exploding it first. That worked, but copies of other parts I had drawn and grouped on one view though, took up their new location's line properties when I placed them on another.

How do I know it happens|? It's what I see on the screen!

Since all these things seemed to be happening together I assumes the effects were somehow linked.

"If you want to just about guarantee a 2D world ..." Not so much "want" as having no choice, Mike, but for this specific project, a set of orthographic views gives me information an isometric one won't.

I had hoped to be able to use TC for isometric drawings, and I have created a few simple exercises from trial-and-error to the one of this engine's cross-heads. Even though the cross-head's 3D drawing is of a real thing, it has no further use, and beyond this level is impossible.