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SOLVED - LOFTING 2 DIFFERENT START + END PROFILES USING GUIDELINES INC. SPLINES
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December 28, 2011, 01:26:41 PM
I don't think anyone else has solved this problem but it came to me today, we can loft between 2 or more profiles between themselves, but to get them to follow the guides never seems to work.

What I realised today is that we need to know is where TC/ACIS puts the guides when you generate that simple loft.
You can then use that info to put our start and end points using whatever profiles we want, whether curves, splines and lines etc.

I hope this helps you guys......simple when you think about it logically... :-)

*Edit* as per Henry's initial headache, make sure you have "Degenerative Faceting" ticked in the Drawing Setup!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:54:41 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


December 28, 2011, 01:42:02 PM
#1
The LH profile is the standard parallel lofting to see where we need to locate our start and end points, I slightly angled the profiles to make seeing them easier.
Next is the profiles for the loft I want to create, I used circles to give me the exact points when I positioned the LH loft over the start end end profiles in this one, I then created the guides making sure they snapped exactly to the centre of those circles.

Second right is the result, then the Rh lofting is where I tried a spline as one of the guides instead of an arc.... the result is a nice smooth loft as you can clearly see.

I have tried selecting fewer guides, it still lofts but the result is not correct......all those guides are needed!

This means we can now do more in TC that we would otherwise have to import from other software, so we can now go a bit more organic in our modelling!

Trying to be to outlandish with excessive curves will still cause an error but is it useful to know why it wasn't working!....
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 10:11:44 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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December 28, 2011, 02:40:40 PM
#2
Maybe if the programmers are taking note that when we use the lofting tool, when we select two or more profiles, numbered markers could be added for where we should place the start and end point for the guides.....
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 10:19:42 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* December 28, 2011, 07:05:14 PM
#3
Maybe if the programmers are taking note that when we use the lofting tool, when we select two or more profiles, numbered markers could added for where we should place the start and end point for the guides.....

Dear Santa...

;-)

Henry H

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December 28, 2011, 07:50:25 PM
#4
I agree. I hope the programmers are listening

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* December 28, 2011, 07:51:51 PM
#5
Daz, you're a cottonpickin genius. It took me a while to make your method work, using 2D Splines as profiles, 'cuz I couldn't find the "guidelines" that ACIS/TCad put there. Finally discovered that I had to enable "Degenerative faceting" -- which I almost never do.

I snapped a Point object to the intersection of each of these "guidelines" with each profile and then grouped each profile and its associated Points, for easy handling. Moved the groups around; exploded them; drew 3D Splines by Fit Points through the points. Lofted only the two end profiles and used the 3D Splines as Guidelines. Worked great!

Henry H

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December 28, 2011, 10:02:13 PM
#6
Superb Henry......... Opens up loads of design concept ideas that before we would think TC is not capable of doing. When you think about it also, and look where ACIS generates the guide points on a circle, no wonder we were getting errors. I would love to hear from the programmers how it works out these, it could get our heads around shapes and why some lines don't seem to be in any way connected to what we would think logical, seems a bit random........ Hey, almost human haha.......

I hope to see some great looking shapes coming our way from you Henry and the other TC freaks on here! ;D
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 07:32:40 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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December 29, 2011, 03:57:31 AM
#7
Programmers - this is something like what we want :-)

Obviously, thinking logically again, the profiles you want to loft need to be selected before any guide markers can be calculated. I could be wrong though?

This knowledge does open up projects that we would usually find hard to produce, car bodies and ship hulls are some of the things that spring to mind :-)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 04:21:47 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


December 29, 2011, 06:28:59 AM
#8
Henry and other contributors to webpages and tutorials on this subject need to be edited don't you all think? For example - http://www3.turbocadcommunity.com/tiki-index.php?page=Lofting+by+AndyUK - he mentions about how long a loft takes to generate, overnight wow!......i think this is all down to the guides positions and what the ACIS engine likes to know and the intersections it prefers......

Also I think this isn't applicable any more, if all the guide intersections are copied exactly you should get what is expected! (tell me if I am wrong of course) I don't think we need luck now :-):

"7. Do anticipate adjusting your profiles to repair imperfections in the finished loft.
Lotsa luck."
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:55:02 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* December 29, 2011, 12:05:58 PM
#9
re: …AndyUK - he mentions about how long a loft takes to generate, overnight wow!

That article was written back in the middle of 2005 and hasn't been updated by the author since then. I don't believe he's been around for the past few years

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John R.

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December 29, 2011, 12:34:42 PM
#10
John, Well i suppose it is still useful, their are a few pointers that are relevant and for those who are still using version 10

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Daz…

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* December 29, 2011, 01:22:57 PM
#11
There is a separate Lofting page in the Wiki, though it's not much different than what can be found on the regular Help page. They like to hide topics in their on-line Help; Lofting is a sub-sub-section of the Thread tool.
"Working in 3D / Thread / Profile Objects / Lofting"
Why the management at IMSI thinks that Lofting tools come from the Thread tool is beyond me.  ???

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John R.

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December 29, 2011, 01:41:49 PM
#12
Its a shame that it has been hidden away from us, only recently I have started to use it more creating a tap spout and a traditional "D" furniture handle.....

Its uses have been neglected I think because we didn't understand why nearly every time we tried to use the guides they would fail.

Now, with the understanding of how the ACIS engine "likes" the position of the guides to be, it opens our eyes as to what the loft tool can do  :o
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 07:25:45 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* April 23, 2012, 01:02:41 AM
#13
Daz, you're a cottonpickin genius. It took me a while to make your method work, using 2D Splines as profiles, 'cuz I couldn't find the "guidelines" that ACIS/TCad put there. Finally discovered that I had to enable "Degenerative faceting" -- which I almost never do.

I snapped a Point object to the intersection of each of these "guidelines" with each profile and then grouped each profile and its associated Points, for easy handling. Moved the groups around; exploded them; drew 3D Splines by Fit Points through the points. Lofted only the two end profiles and used the 3D Splines as Guidelines. Worked great!

Henry H

I must have missed this method along the way, well done to all who participated in this solution, I was browsing for something else after being up all night looking for delphi/turbocad related articles when I accidentally stumbled upon this thread.

This should go in the very good tips section, better still, it would be handy if Turbocad could have a tips utility that can be added to by the user within the program , as I know that these days I forget far more than I can remember  ???.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 01:04:51 AM by Michael Geraghty »

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* April 23, 2012, 04:42:56 AM
#14
And I missed it also, as in the last few years with my 'day job' (Gas emergency) and charity work being very busy I hardly used TC though did keep looking in occasionally.

Darren -
With regards the overnight loft, that was simply to show what can happen when a loft goes wrong and the program looks like its frozen.

Have you added your method to the wiki, or if not is it ok if I amend the loft examples and include your findings along with Henry's observations.

Andy




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April 23, 2012, 04:59:30 AM
#15
Yeah Mike,
Yeah Andy,
I don't have the authority to add to Wiki myself I don't think, and you have my permission to add/update it for others to to make use of this knowledge...

It would be of benefit for Imsi/TurboCAD to include this in the PDF help also don't you think.... ???

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Daz…

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April 23, 2012, 12:40:24 PM
#16
This is a superb help!

Fantastic. Excellent. Thank you very much for sharing.

Bud

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April 23, 2012, 12:41:47 PM
#17
Your welcome Bud...... :)

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Daz…

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* April 24, 2012, 04:06:48 PM
#18
re: …I don't have the authority to add to Wiki myself, I don't think…

Give it a try.

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* April 25, 2012, 10:40:20 AM
#19
John

I wasn't sure myself as I visited the 'how to use' page to see if the commands had changed and found this -

"Due to several instances of various forms of spam and porn being posted on this wiki site over the past year, the ability to create or edit pages by Registered users has been turned off".

Anyway I clicked edit on an old page and it brought up the code so it may let me, though I didn't try actually changing anything,

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April 26, 2012, 03:36:28 PM
#20
I have added a bit to the wiki......the images didn't/don't display but there is a link to this post for others to make use of it... :-) or is it just the TC18 online help  ???
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 03:38:31 PM by Darrel Carl Durose »

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Daz…

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TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* April 26, 2012, 11:37:35 PM
#21
I have added a bit to the wiki......the images didn't/don't display but there is a link to this post for others to make use of it... :-) or is it just the TC18 online help  ???

We're thinking of two different Wiki's. You posted in the Comments section at the bottom of the Profile Objects page of V18 Help. I think of this as the new Wiki or the "Help" documentation site. I, and probably Andy, think of the original Wiki site when Wiki is mentioned.

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John R.

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May 11, 2012, 04:49:35 AM
#22
Fascinating improvement for lofting but how does one add the guidelines/points.  I have not found it yet even with degenerative facetting turned on.

regards
Colin Reid

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regards
Colin Reid
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May 11, 2012, 11:30:16 AM
#23
Colin

A post I made in your problem topic http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,9146.0.html explains an error free way for creating a clean hull  :)

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.