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Render Expectations
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* October 07, 2019, 09:36:42 PM
Heres just one of my sample LW renders ( presentation 1jpg its just a draft only) for a client and he just sent me an update thats nowhere near his original request, given that the house is going to be built in the aussie outback bush. Anyone care to establish a real value on the extra work Ive now gotta do?

This is what he now wants ( stadbroke...), just hope that I can produce something like it.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 01:02:21 AM
#1
What I should have asked, whats a readonable time frame to convert the 1st image to something like the 2nd image?

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 05:11:12 AM
#2
Not easy to say timeframe, depend on how much of the "old" one you can use, else it just to change styles, adjust the roof a bit maybe.

But i can say what i do :)
I have a base price up to 150 m2 and then add for every extra m2 above that, i calculate interior area on all floor, incl garage, deck etc. living space or not dont matter.
Base is 25 hour on a "standard" house + 4 min pr extra m2 above 150 m2
If it's less than 150 m2, i still use 25 hour as a base.

Then you need to think about if there is a lot of non standard things inside the drawing that will make you use more time, only you know.

I also charge 5 hour for drawing terrain lines on print ( hint draftpalette is nice :) + cost of electronic terrain map in dxf or dwg
Extrawork on terrain is a guess.
And then the "bad one", i charge 2 hour for a 3D pdf :))

Somtimes i win, sometimes i loos, but thats the game as i dont go on hour rate if i can avoid it.

Torfinn

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October 08, 2019, 11:47:23 AM
#3
Unless the wall and door styles are unchanged (gonna go out on a very long limb and conclude that the roof is totally different), it looks to me as if you have an entirely new, build-from-scratch job.

At the very least, doubling the number of floors doubles the quoted price.


Jeff
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 01:48:49 AM by Jeffin90620 »

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* October 08, 2019, 12:30:26 PM
#4
What I should have asked, whats a readonable time frame to convert the 1st image to something like the 2nd image?

For you  ;D I'd give yourself 40 hrs. Be fair with the squid due to the learning  ;)

see attached > I did that in Deluxe lightWorks. Redsdk at the time was rather a pain in the arse  :P                           
Majo was kind enough to post the drawing for redsdk, I converted everything to Lightworks and set up the render. Wow 3 years ago, time flies  :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 12:32:33 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* October 08, 2019, 01:02:24 PM
#5
The roof is just nearly no overhang and spin a profile of a wide gutter and a profile for the sofit ? and facia around it, no big deal, but everything do take times so …
It's not a construction/ engineer drawing as i see it.

Torfinn

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October 08, 2019, 01:21:41 PM
#6
I wonder how much of that Stradbroke image was done in PhotoShop? The house is obviously modeled and even the plants seem to be models (they seem familiar to me). The trees seem to be added via PhotoShop or other editor.

Reminds me of the Architectural Illustration tutorial I had available for TC v14 at one time. In the attached I think the background was part of the render, as was the building and the sidewalks, grass and pavement. Front trees, people and flowers were added in PhotoShop or perhaps PSP at the time.


* October 08, 2019, 02:12:24 PM
#7
I agree, the picture is not made in a cad program alone, something else have been used for produce that.
I dont do illustrations at that level, i draw house and terrain, simple render in TC and finish.

Torfinn

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* October 08, 2019, 05:51:53 PM
#8
What I should have asked, whats a readonable time frame to convert the 1st image to something like the 2nd image?

For you  ;D I'd give yourself 40 hrs. Be fair with the squid due to the learning  ;)

see attached > I did that in Deluxe lightWorks. Redsdk at the time was rather a pain in the arse  :P                           
Majo was kind enough to post the drawing for redsdk, I converted everything to Lightworks and set up the render. Wow 3 years ago, time flies  :)

Yeah Dean Ive seen that image before and its a great render, pity that its using redsdk, Im sticking with lightworks.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 06:03:32 PM
#9
Heres just one of my sample LW renders ( presentation 1jpg its just a draft only) for a client and he just sent me an update thats nowhere near his original request, given that the house is going to be built in the aussie outback bush. Anyone care to establish a real value on the extra work Ive now gotta do?

This is what he now wants ( stadbroke...), just hope that I can produce something like it.

So the client has now changed his mind altogether and decided to go with a rendering company in Sydney that charge AU$125.00 p/h ( at the moment one AU$1.00 buys US$0.67¢ dollars ) and photoshop most of the accessories in the drawing. Geez I really put in some long hours to learn more about architectural stuff and though based on his wishy washy all over the shop requests that were just a bit off. Anyway lesson learned, I guess he wanted way to much for next to no money at all.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 06:57:50 PM
#10
There are a billion people like that out there, trying to get something done for free, thats why you set a price before start to draw anything at all, let the customer sketch for you what they want, normally they do have a vision of it, when that is finish, some minor change is ok, after that charge for further changes.

If you have a drawing, pdf or similar of stadbroke,use it for training, then you get an ide'a about how many hour's it will take to draw something  like that next time.

If i believe customers are "Fishing", i send them my pricelist with an explanation that they have to accept.

Torfinn

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* October 08, 2019, 07:04:06 PM
#11
[whoops... posted in wrong Topic thread.    Copied/pasted to here; removed from other thread.  But I see I'm a bit late, as the client already did what I suspected might do.]

I just hope you can get the client to agree to pay a fair.compensation to you for your conceptualization and design time and talents, Darryl.

It's something I struggled with early on. I was being too nice and apprehensive and not stating and getting agreement to my compensation for re-designs in advance of the fact.

I finally "manned up" (please pardon the gender-biased term Nikki) and got written agreement, often in the form of an email, before continuing with re-draws.

Conceptualization and re-designs can kill dollars-per-hour realized.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* October 08, 2019, 07:18:41 PM
#12
What I should have asked, whats a readonable time frame to convert the 1st image to something like the 2nd image?

For you  ;D I'd give yourself 40 hrs. Be fair with the squid due to the learning  ;)

see attached > I did that in Deluxe lightWorks. Redsdk at the time was rather a pain in the arse  :P                           
Majo was kind enough to post the drawing for redsdk, I converted everything to Lightworks and set up the render. Wow 3 years ago, time flies  :)

Yeah Dean Ive seen that image before and its a great render, pity that its using redsdk, Im sticking with lightworks.

 ???  ??? It's lightworks, Mate  :)> all materials, background and render I used Lightworks > no post editing. :P no photostuff and most of all NO Redstuff.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 07:24:13 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* October 08, 2019, 08:10:28 PM
#13
Dean thanks mate, oh wow, now that is a 1ST CLASS Lightworks render.

For those that have got photoshop and use Lightworks on a consistent basis what do you enhance most from a Lightworks render post processing?

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 08:15:14 PM
#14
Torfinn "the are a billion" + 1 more. Thanks for the tips, at least I can now concentrate on my ideas for a few days. 😜

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 08, 2019, 08:43:05 PM
#15
Dean thanks mate, oh wow, now that is a 1ST CLASS Lightworks render.

For those that have got photoshop and use Lightworks on a consistent basis what do you enhance most from a Lightworks render post processing?

Nothing,mate. I never got into that. I tweak the LightWorks shaders (materials. lights, environment,render style) till I'm satisfied with the render. 
I might use a photo editor for creating a specific wrapped image material and or adding annotations, that's it.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


* October 08, 2019, 11:27:26 PM
#16
Sounds like the story of my life
Yay you get to do something way more interesting.
If I were you I would forget the rendering for now- this might be because I am not very good at it.
Focus on the design.It is easy to let the architectural tools design the building but you don't always get exciting results.
So don't even look at them until you have an idea of the style, shape and layout of the building.
I find that a pencil and scrap paper is still the fastest way to get an idea of what I am after - The architectural tools dont like being edited too much anyway.
It doesn't have to be perfect you just looking at proportions, shape and layout.
Once you have a pleasing concept. CAD it. Send the layout and an elevation to the client to see if you have nailed the brief
Make adjustments check, adjust check, adjust check and then finally render it.


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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* October 09, 2019, 01:16:49 PM
#17
Nikki some good points thanks, early renders where important for me as I was given sample colours and the weatherboard profile and I needed to match using lightworks.

Like Dean said in another thread that Lightworks is really good at creating and simulating real textures and hes absolutely right.

Dean does Lightworks IRay work the same way as our current version of Lightworks?

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Daz
TCW V21, 2015-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5.2 & Redsdk enabled, LightWorks rendering mostly.


* October 12, 2019, 07:53:37 AM
#18
Darryl W quote  "Dean does Lightworks IRay work the same way as our current version of Lightworks?"

Darryl,
Think of it as our Turbocad version of LightWorks has grown up  :)
I think it was a good move to team up with Nvidia.
IMSI, IMHO  :) should of stayed true with an old friend > being LightWorks.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.


October 12, 2019, 12:44:45 PM
#19
Think of it as our Turbocad version of LightWorks has grown up  :)
I think it was a good move to team up with Nvidia.
IMSI, IMHO  :) should of stayed true with an old friend > being LightWorks.

I have heard nothing about an iRay version of Lightworks coming to TurboCAD.  I know there are plugins available for other CAD software, and I've seen some of the impressive results it can provide, so I am hopeful.

But I was quite happy for RedSDK's vastly superior speeds in Hidden Line and Draft modes during development.


Jeff

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System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* October 13, 2019, 07:15:56 AM
#20
Think of it as our Turbocad version of LightWorks has grown up  :)
I think it was a good move to team up with Nvidia.
IMSI, IMHO  :) should of stayed true with an old friend > being LightWorks.

I have heard nothing about an iRay version of Lightworks coming to TurboCAD.  I know there are plugins available for other CAD software, and I've seen some of the impressive results it can provide, so I am hopeful.

But I was quite happy for RedSDK's vastly superior speeds in Hidden Line and Draft modes during development.


Jeff

I liked Redstuff in Version 18, I think it was how it all started, quicker 2d graphics and hidden line, thats it.
I'd say maybe they could just have that and forget the other redstuff render styles,keep lightworks and offer a Plugin for advanced photorealistic rendering. if not redsdk maybe something similar to how sketchup does it with shaded and hidden lines.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:18:03 AM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21,20,19 and 18.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5.  HP all in one  23" Touch smart screen with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3. Intel Core i5 ,2.27GHz,4 GB ram.