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TCW File Saving Disaster
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* February 01, 2015, 05:20:58 AM

Three days ago using TCW 20.2 Pro Platinum, each file I opened suddenly would not save with its own name or as a tcw file. When I saved the file it would save in the same folder, but renamed ‘temp.0’ each time I saved it would give a new number 1,2,3, etc, so I had to open it to find out what it was. All that was in the left hand column was a tcw icon in the frame and saying the file did not exist. The file had been saved as a Back-up file with its correct name but with a BAK extension, in the TCW Back-up folder. (see attached) I ran a Turbocad Repair, with no effect.
As I was about to upgrade to v 21 Platinum, I uninstalled v20 hoping this would be solved by a clean install. However, after I installed v21 I had exactly the same problem. Any tcw drawing file I opened would rename itself as a temp file with another in the BAK folder.
I thought it might then be a problem of a virus so I ran malware searches and nothing appeared.
It started coincidentally with a massive 47 item Windows 7 update so I did a system restore back to an earlier date, when all my files were saving properly, but the problem remained.
So I uninstalled the restored v20.2 and any references to IMSI files throughout, and then did a system restore followed by reloading the Windows updates and reinstalling v21 but I still have the problem. I do not have this problem in any other program.
This is devastating as I have used Turbocad since v4Pro, so all my drawings are tcw files, filed with names I recognise. Now, any drawing I open cannot be saved with any name I give it, it becomes a ‘temp’ file.
Has anyone experienced this and able to help please?  Sheila
Windows 7 64bit Intel i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz  12 GB RAM

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* February 01, 2015, 11:59:34 AM
#1
I've seen that occur, but not positive as to what causes it. Possibly from "DWL" files left behind after a crash. They may make TurboCAD think the drawing is already open and will only save temporary copies (TMP). When no drawings are open, look in your "Drawings" folders for files with the DWL extension. They're little 1KB files. Delete them. This may or may not clear up your problem. DWL's appear every time a drawing is opened to prevent other users on a network from opening that same file and making changes at the same time. The 'other guy' can only save a copy, which might be happening here.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1903), 64-bit


* February 01, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
#2
John, thank you very much for the suggestion.
I found 8 DWL files in my documents which I deleted and rebooted, but unfortunately when testing drawings the result was the same.
I realise it is on the second saving of a file that shows the 'temp' file. The first time of saving and opening the file it is correctly listed, but after opening and saving again it loses its name.
I'm baffled, Sheila

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February 01, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
#3
Sheila

Another topic that John made a suggestion in here may help - http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,13854.msg80361.html#msg80361

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* February 01, 2015, 11:33:52 PM
#4
Thanks for the reply.  I've done as you suggested from John's link, but no change. In any case I have reloaded the program so many times, and it occurred first in v20.2 then 21, that I can't see that it is a problem internal to the program.
I have now discovered that every time I open up the temp file that is created from my named file, when I save it the number it has (eg 'temp.4) becomes an inaccessible file and it assumes the next number (eg 'temp.5) and so it goes on.
The dwl file solution seemed the most likely, but as it didn't solve it maybe there's some other interacting process that's causing it, I can't find any setting relating to file saving that might affect it
It's every draughtsperson's nightmare to lose access to all the drawings, and I dare not open any critical ones as I won't know what they have become. Does anyone know how I can contact Vlad or other Developers please? Sheila

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* February 02, 2015, 12:50:21 AM
#5
PS I might have been misleading in calling the files 'temp.0' etc, they are actually 'tmp0' etc. Sheila

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* February 02, 2015, 01:11:10 AM
#6
Not Vlad, but John posted these links to support and sending message to Dave Taylor.
http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,15060.msg86369.html#msg86369

I just wondered if you had tried starting windows in safe mode, then disconnect from internet, turn off antivirus/firewall/and any others like windows defender, and seeing what TC does then, i.e draw a few squares/save reopen/save/reopen.

A quick look on the net suggests that a similar problem has occurred with Excel in the past, caused by either an indexing service, a network thinking two people are using the same file, or an over enthusiastic antivirus.

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February 02, 2015, 01:23:24 AM
#7
It could also be worth, if you haven't tried this already, running a Scandisk to check for windows file system errors. Details I posted here on how to do it - http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,12232.msg73829.html#msg73829

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


* February 02, 2015, 03:00:17 AM
#8
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have now;
1.   Removed all folders with files that I have looked at since this problem started to a usb device
2.   Deleted all tmp and bak files
3.   Uninstalled tcw21 and removed all refs to IMSI or TurboCAD
4.   Run Scandisk
5.   Reinstalled tcw21
6.   Checked what happened when drawing and saving in Safe Mode
The files saved properly in Safe Mode, including new and old files
Still files will not save in normal mode, the attached shows both trial files in the start up box, the top one saved in Safe mode and the next in normal mode. The third is a new drawing in Safe mode.
I don’t know what can be getting in the way between Safe and Normal modes. Sheila

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* February 02, 2015, 04:26:38 AM
#9
Andy,
You suggested testing the file saving in Safe Mode which did work. Do you know what this means in terms of getting it to work in normal mode? Thanks, Sheila

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February 02, 2015, 02:17:32 PM
#10
Hi Sheila,

Did you use a registry editor to, remove all refs to IMSI or TurboCAD?

If NO then There will be quite a few bits of the previous and earlier installations scattered all over the place.

Have you tried Windows system restore to go back to a system that worked before this problem arose?

If possible to go back far enough this would be my starting point, user files are not affected by system restore.

HTH

Best Regards
Bob


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TC 14 Deluxe, TC 19 Pro
Windows 7, 64bit 8GB Ram


* February 02, 2015, 06:51:07 PM
#11
Do you know what this means in terms of getting it to work in normal mode? Thanks, Sheila

Well unfortunately it just means that you've narrowed down the causes a little, I suggested that simply to find out if TC works ok with windows core program, being that it does then I wouldn't bother reinstalling TC anymore, your probably just wasting your time, do you normally work with a network connection, or a backup drive, If it was me I'd.

Disconnect from any network / try TC saved to local drive only,

Try a program like LockHunter, http://lockhunter.com/index.htm this may help identify if some other program is holding onto the dwl file and preventing TC from updating it, basically one installs LockHunter, start TC, draw something, save the file, then whilst still open, use windows explorer to navigate to the dwl file (with the same name as you just saved), right click file and choose 'what is locking this file', you don't have to delete anything just see what it says, if only TC is shown then close Lockhunter, save the file a second time, it saves as a new temp name, see if the original dwl is still there and recheck it, unfortunately I'm running out of ideas, you could try

Turn off antivirus & firewall / try TC
Turn off other programs like windows defender, mailware / try TC
if your the only one who uses the computer, you could ask Dave Taylor if there is a registry hack that will turn off the dwl creation - at least that may get you working again.

As a test you could use LockHunter to try and delete (unlock) the dwl file before you save the TC file a second time, if that works you are certain the dwl is causing the problem.

Sorry I can't really provide an answer, but some problems are really just trial and error to locate. 

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February 02, 2015, 07:09:13 PM
#12
The other thing to try... and this is kinda' drastic:

Set up another User Account on your computer.  It's still you, but just another account with Administrator privileges (assuming you have Administrator privileges currently).

I had/have an issue that was/is unsolvable; many have tried. (I couldn't/can't enter any Lightworks editing; it froze/freezes up TurboCAD)  Like you Sheila, I tried everything... repeatedly.  System Restores, UnInstalls & ReInstalls, .... everything.

Finally, on Rip's suggestion, I created another Windows User Account for myself.  Now, when I am drawing something that requires my editing Lightworks stuff, I have to go use that User Account.  By assigning the correct permissions, I can access my "main" User Account data files from this "extra" User Account, and vice-versa.  With assigning the correct permissions at a high enough level, I can basically go across both Users, as if there were no "wall" at all.

Like I said... it's kind of drastic-- extreme.  At least if you give it a try, and it's successful, you aid others in diagnosing it.

~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 03, 2015, 01:02:43 AM
#13
Andy, Thank you so much for giving it so much thought.
I’ve tried all your suggestions of disconnect and turning off but problem remains.
Strangely there are no dwl files anywhere (despite having all operating system files showing). Maybe this is causing the problem, but it’s beyond me!
Lockhunter doesn’t find any locked files.
I’m about to set up another User account as Rip and Alvin suggest. Sheila

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* February 03, 2015, 02:51:40 AM
#14
Fantastic, so far so good!
I made a new User account as Rip and and Alvin suggested, and Turbocad saves correctly in it (I do not get an option of choosing to run as administrator from a right click on the desktop icon) I can now make a new drawing with a proper name label.
However, I am not sure now how to access my data with my drawings in in this user account, or whether I just copy it all from a backup or how it relates to my other synced laptop which had the same issue….I’m afraid the problem might recur if I sync them...I'm moving into an unknown area.
With the new User account, when a tcw file is open I can now see a dwl file in the same folder which might be significant to the problem as previously dwl files weren’t appearing at all when files were open.
Thanks for help, Sheila

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February 03, 2015, 03:23:08 AM
#15
I came across this which may help from the "Other" CAD software.... I let you fill in the blanks  :D:

Issue:
Users in remote offices are able to work for a seemingly random amount of time on a drawing. At some point, when you save, the drawing becomes Read Only, and you are unable to save the drawing (either Qsave or normal save). You are forced to Save As a different name, then close CAD, rename the drawing, and then continue.

Error:  “Unable to  save to drawing <path>\<drawingname>.dwg, Drawing saved to <path>\<Filename>.tmp"  as it is being accessed by another session.”
Causes:
In almost all situations this issue due to the network. When the ******* file is opened, Windows makes a copy of the original and locks the original by placing DWL and DWL2 files in the same directory. When ******* saves a drawing, it writes the drawing to a .TMP file. At the same time it deletes the current backup file if there (.BAK), then it renames the .DWG to .BAK so that .BAK file is newest version, and then finally it renames the .TMP to .DWG. In some instances the last step is failing. 

Possible reasons to cause this issue include, but are not limited to: 
Server environment, NAS 
Issues with Distributed File System (DFS): The DFS allows system administrators to make it easier for users to access and manage files that are physically distributed across a network. With DFS, you can make files distributed across multiple servers appear to users as if they reside in one place on the network.
Using a Novell server? If so this error might indicate that the File catching settings in Novell Client is enabled and should be turned off. See this: Unable to Save Drawing to Novell Server
Network performance issue related to a conflict within your network such as:   
Synchronizing time between server and workstation 
Network saturation 
Excess server workload 
Virus protection on the client or server 
"Misbehaving" network drivers on the client or on the server   

Solution:
Some possible solutions are as follows: 
Clear your %TEMP% directory (Click Start, type %TEMP%, and press Enter)
See if you can save it in the same location as different name
Check to see if the .dwl and .dwl2 files are being removed upon closing the file
Check to see if you are able to reproduce the issue by saving the file to the local system.
 
The issue could be related to a conflict within your network or bad synchronizing time between server and workstation. So you may need to ask your IT person to check time stamp settings and confirm the proper functionality.

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Daz…

V2019 Plat 64bit, Lenovo P72 Laptop, Window 10 Pro for Workstations, Intel Xeon E-2186 CPU @ 2.90 Ghz (6 cores/12 threads), 32GB RAM, 512GB & 1TB SSD's, Nvidia P5200 c/w Max=Q Design GPU, Display UHD 3840 x 2160 pixels
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.


February 03, 2015, 05:29:34 AM
#16
Fantastic, so far so good!
I made a new User account as Rip and and Alvin suggested, and Turbocad saves correctly in it (I do not get an option of choosing to run as administrator from a right click on the desktop icon) I can now make a new drawing with a proper name label.

However, I am not sure now how to access my data with my drawings in in this user account, or whether I just copy it all from a backup or how it relates to my other synced laptop which had the same issue….I’m afraid the problem might recur if I sync them...I'm moving into an unknown area.


With the new User account, when a tcw file is open I can now see a dwl file in the same folder which might be significant to the problem as previously dwl files weren’t appearing at all when files were open.
Thanks for help, Sheila

As far as gaining access to your original/"real" User Account data files Sheila:

    I work in a typical one-person environment, not on/in a network, such as may be the case with a multi-user office environment.  I am a typical independent-contractor, working from home.
So, I was able to simply grant permissions across User Accounts at the highest level (i.e.:  C:\Users\user name).  In Windows Explorer, for both User Accounts, I right-clicked on that Folder, clicked on Properties, and... it's self-explanatory from there.  Or, right-click that user name Folder, click on "Share With", "Sharing", or similar.

RE: "...how it relates to my other synced laptop which had the same issue….I’m afraid the problem might recur if I sync them..."
    I'm not a computer-guy.  But it seems to me-- from reading the posts in this thread-- that a "synced laptop" could be the source of this issue.  Then again, maybe not.

~Alvin
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 01:48:42 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


February 04, 2015, 01:57:15 PM
#17
What Rip actually had suggested to me:

Was to create a new User Account (that is also me).
In the original User Account, do a Full UnInstall of TurboCAD (remember to save custom Drawing-files, Materials, Symbols, Templates, Configuration-Files, etc. if you are going to remove those Folders).
Back in the new User Account, install TurboCAD, granting access to All Users.

After the re-Install, in the original User Account, you might be okay.  You might no longer have the issue.

I never did try that for my issue.  I went another way, as I described previously.
It's not as clean as we'd like, I know.  We feel like our TurboCAD installation is forever "compromised", or something.

~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 05, 2015, 01:44:36 PM
#18
Alvin,
At last I am back to being able to get on with proper work!
I still don't know whether the fault was to do with the non existing of dwl files or what else caused it. Just to summarise, it was solved by;
On my main W7 computer I made a new User account (which could access all my programs), and copied all my data into it from backup. Then I got rid of the original User account. This worked fine and I didn't need to reinstall Turbocad or any other programs and I could save named tcw files properly again.
On my other linked W8 computer, I went through all the things I had tried on the main one and nothing worked. Finally in the new User account with Dell Technical help I discovered there was a corruption in Windows so it wouldn't hold any settings. So I had to reload Windows Programs & Data. Not surprisingly this sorted it!
Thanks for all suggestions, Sheila

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February 05, 2015, 02:07:30 PM
#19
Alvin,
At last I am back to being able to get on with proper work!
...,Sheila

Two words:  HOO RAY!!

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V21PP; V20.2PP; V19DL; V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)