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Join polyline only works sometimes?
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* August 13, 2009, 10:48:58 AM
Hi -

I'm trying to learn simple 2D drafting here.  I create lines and arcs, and move them so that their end points appear to be in contact at very magnified scale.

Sometimes I can select a pair of such objects, then go into Modify, and select Join polyline, but other times I get an error message saying the graphics selected can't be joined.

All "graphics" are of the same origin as far as I can tell - just lines and arcs, all done using minimum line thickness, default.

(Just as background information, I've had that problem with other packages too, one being Corel (vector) draw.)

Eleanor White

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* August 13, 2009, 11:37:38 AM
#1
If I understand your question correctly I would say that you cannot just draw or place lines to look like they are attached you actually have to attach the ends. I don't want to assume that you're not already doing this but I'll say it anyway. To connect a second line to an existing one you should attach it using the vertex command (hold the V key down with the cursor over the end of the line and click). All lines should be connected in one way of another (generally speaking). In 2 D I use Vertex more than any other command. Of course this is not the only way to connect lines, it's just one that I use a lot. If this was to basic I apologize, hope it helps.
Marc

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Marc
TC Ver. 21.2 Build 59.0
Win 7 64 bit Dell i7 2.70Gz 16 GB


* August 13, 2009, 08:50:55 PM
#2
Adding one more admonition to Marc's excellent advice: If any of the entities that you wish to join have been moved or copied from their original locations, you should select all of them and then use Format|Place on Workplane.

Henry H

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* August 14, 2009, 04:36:39 AM
#3
Many thanks, marchmoran -

I succeeded in doing this one time, but other attempts fail.

When I have positioned the lines and arcs to where I want them, I can no longer find the exact location of the ends on the screen to V-click on.

Joining lines is such a common operation ... I'm not sure why graphics packages make this so difficult!  :-)

Eleanor White

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* August 14, 2009, 04:41:30 AM
#4
Thanks to Henry -

I did a Place on Workplane for all the lines I want to join, and I'm still getting repeated failures to join.

The error is always "Chosen graphics cannot be used for this operation."

My graphics are lines and arcs, nothing special.

Eleanor White

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* August 14, 2009, 06:13:59 AM
#5
If you post the file, most likely someone can tell you what the specific problem is.

JoeM

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* August 14, 2009, 07:13:13 AM
#6
To Joe M -

I'm trying to draw half a bell outline, to eventually create a bell-shaped logo.  The file appears in the "Attach" dialogue here.

So what you see is a collection of lines and arcs which make up half a bell, which I will later copy, and horizontal mirror, then join the two halves.

A couple of the elements have been "join polyline'd."

Thanks,

Eleanor White



[attachment deleted by admin]

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* August 14, 2009, 08:35:43 AM
#7
This statement by marchmoran (post #2 above):

"I would say that you cannot just draw or place lines to look like they are attached you actually have to attach the ends."

... seems to be the problem.  Sometimes I can get "meet two lines" to do that, but most times, either nothing happens, or, an arc I had carefully drawn cut to the angle I want pops into a circle instead of the original arc.

I used Autocad years ago, then, Corel (vector) draw for many years.  I can no longer afford a $600 software package, but maybe Turbocad doesn't allow for ordinary joining of lines?  Maybe I should look for a low priced vector draw package?  I have yet to find one below $100, which as a senior is about all I can handle.

Eleanor White

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August 14, 2009, 10:13:45 AM
#8
Eleanor,
If you are looking at doing 3D graphics go to google Sketchup.com and download their basic version.  It is free and very powerful.  If you want more technical drafting in 2D go to IMSI's DoubleCAD.com and download the basic version.  It is also free and works from the same  CAD engine as TurboCAD.  In fact the interface is almost identical to TurboCAD.  This package is also very powerful and good way to learn the basics of TurboCAD's main 2D drawing functions.

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Jon Coxwell, AIA
Windows Win 7x64
TC19,20 32 bit, 20,21,22 64 bit (Platinum)
RedSDK usually off  Win 10 pro

Save the Planet
Conserve & Recycle


* August 14, 2009, 10:28:33 AM
#9

I'm trying to draw half a bell outline, to eventually create a bell-shaped logo.  The file appears in the "Attach" dialogue here.


The bell shape has a few gaps shown highlighted in the circles. I exploded each arc 'ONCE' to create polylines and then used the join 2 lines tool to close the gaps. From there use the Join polyline tool and click on each segment to create the half bell.

HTH
Don




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DonCW

2017 Platinum
Light Works Plug in
Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


* August 14, 2009, 10:37:47 AM
#10
Nothing is touching, so nothing can be Joined.



[attachment deleted by admin]

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* August 14, 2009, 11:07:31 AM
#11
This statement by marchmoran (post #2 above):

"I would say that you cannot just draw or place lines to look like they are attached you actually have to attach the ends."

... seems to be the problem.  Sometimes I can get "meet two lines" to do that, but most times, either nothing happens, or, an arc I had carefully drawn cut to the angle I want pops into a circle instead of the original arc.

Often, Eleanor, it is easier to redraw a profile as a single entity, manually tracing over the existing fragments with a new Polyline or Curve. I think this is one such case. In the attached screenshot, the selected entity is a new Polyline traced over your lines and arcs.

Henry H

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* August 14, 2009, 11:22:09 AM
#12
Many thanks, guys -

That tracing over is a good suggestion, though I haven't learned when doing a polyline with arcs how to make the arc change direction, as when drawing an ogee (reversing) curve made up of two arcs.  Unless I can control the direction of the new arc segment, that won't help.

To John R, I understand what you mean by "not touching," having had years of Autocad and Corel Draw experience.

But both of those packages allowed for  joining in such cases.

(On my screen, by the way, under fairly good magnification, I can't see the non-joints.)

In Turbocad, doesn't either "meet two lines" or "shrink/extend line" cause line segments to join?  My problem is that in only about one out of every 100 tries, do either of those commands work.  Sometimes, I can get them to work by closing the drawing and software, and starting fresh.

What is distressing is that if these join-related commands work, shouldn't they work a second time within the same session?

Eleanor White

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* August 14, 2009, 11:37:22 AM
#13
OK - I'm getting more dependable polyline joining now, by zooming to a very high magnification before doing a meet two lines operation.

What kept me from doing that was the extreme difficulty just finding the object when zooming to high magnification levels.  The center of the screen at one level does not become the center of the magnified screen, and it takes several minutes of hunting for the object using the up/down and left/right arrow buttons on the scroll bars.

At high magnification, the scroll bars themselves are useless because the cause huge displacements at high magnification.

Is there any way to keep the object in view while zooming to high enough magnfication to make meet two lines work?

Thanks,

Eleanor White

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* August 14, 2009, 11:38:11 AM
#14
re: In Turbocad, doesn't either "meet two lines" or "shrink/extend line" cause line segments to join?

This is true, but for the upper blue arc and the red line below those tools won't work. If you use the Edit Tool to lengthen the angle of that arc and then use the Line Length tool to lengthen the line past the arc, you will see that the two objects will never meet. Close, but no cigar.


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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* August 14, 2009, 11:43:20 AM
#15
re: Is there any way to keep the object in view while zooming to high enough magnification to make meet two lines work?

Zoom Window - Drag a small window around the area you want to see and TC Zooms to that selection.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* August 14, 2009, 11:49:36 AM
#16
Is there any way to keep the object in view while zooming to high enough magnfication to make meet two lines work?

Place the cursor on the point you want to magnify and lean on the + key in the number keypad. Screen will pan\scroll to center on that point and will remain centered on it as you zoom.

Henry H

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* August 14, 2009, 12:20:18 PM
#17
When working at high magnification, if one needs to move a line segment sideways, it appears that the little left-right double arrow head symbol, which in other packages means you can move lines left or right, isn't effective.

The only place I can move a line segment is at the center of that line segment, with the 4-way arrow symbol.  Almost never is the 4-way arrow symbol available when working at high magnification.

Apparently, this package isn't even remotely intuitive.  $40 down the drain, I guess.

Eleanor White

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* August 14, 2009, 01:35:53 PM
#18
Don't give up just yet. There are easy ways to move lines around and you don't need to zoom in much at all. I had trouble with these operations too when I started 2D. You can connect the ends. Select the line then place the cursor over the yellow dot and press the D key. that will grab the 'handle'. place the handle over either end and press the V key. Now you can pick up the line at the end and attach it to the end of another line by just putting it in the proximity of the end of the other line and pressing V again. Try looking at the commands in the help. Unfortunately the help is pretty weak but it will give you some ideas.
Marc

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Marc
TC Ver. 21.2 Build 59.0
Win 7 64 bit Dell i7 2.70Gz 16 GB


* August 14, 2009, 01:36:38 PM
#19
Eleanor, you have missed one major concept that I think is the root of your difficulties.  Please read the help files on how to use SNAPS, try them out and some back with more questions.  All of the discussion here is focused around ways to get the existing entities to connect when, if they had been drawn using snaps to begin with they would have been connected (i.e. have co-incident endpoints) from the get-go.  Turbocad is quite capable of doing what you want, you just have to use the correct tools.

I think you have misinterpreted the Join Polyline as something to bring the lines together when in reality it creates a single polyliine object out of lines and arcs that already have coincident end-points.  You mentioned that "But both of those packages allowed for  joining in such cases."  ie.to get ends to touch.  Snaps are Turbocad's tools. Unfortunately, it's been a couple of decades since I used Autocad so I'm not sure of what the equivalent terminology is.

Dennis

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* August 15, 2009, 11:26:11 AM
#20
Here's yet another fix for this situation, probably the simplest of all. Invented/discovered around the time of Version 6, it's know as The Ol' Hatch Trick. See attached screenshot.

Henry H

[attachment deleted by admin]

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* August 15, 2009, 03:30:17 PM
#21
What I'm wondering is, how did you use Autocad without using snaps?  And does AutoCad really have the capability to automatically connect lines that do not have coincident endpoints? I used it for a few years and I never discovered this capability.  Lines had to be drawn with coincident endpoints, same as in TurboCad.

JoeM

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* November 23, 2009, 02:27:27 PM
#22
I am somewhat new to forum but have been learning both turbocad and turbo floorplan.  I have the deluxe turbo cad v12 but the pro turbofloorplan pro verion, I have learned not to get anything but the pro with imsi as the manuels and such are all written for the pro. Its tough enough to learn with-out it being not specified fo the program

I now test everything.  I decided to give turbo cad another attempt to do what I need.  I used some Auto-cad before and many other design programs however what is missing is prompt windows and errors that help you learn. 

I just had the same problem with a valance with arc and trying to connect the arcs to the arcs and arcs to the polyline. Some would some wouldn't but they were on the same plane and also make with compy entites so all should have been the same situaion.  Zoom wasn't my problem that was 30 hrs ago.

Eleanor had two problems one is seeing at zoom as her computer is probally slow or al least that is what I gathered.  There is a button that allows you to select an area and zoom in.  (Most window programs this is done right from the mouse like word or excel.) Turbo cad doesn't which well? back to the point the Easiest to use is Exents and zoom window.  You must click zoom window icon each time and each time make a selection box around the area you want and it zooms in.  The zoom amount is dependant on you settings options menu.

Another way is to use zoom selection.
Zoom Selection
Menu: View / Zoom / Selection
Hotkey: Alt+Backspace
Zooms to an area that completely contains all currently
selected objects.


This will help her find the ends of lines. I used meet two lines and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t.  In meet two lines and also in join polyline the ends of the line trajectory must eventually meet.  Both will shrink or extend the lines to meet if the trajectory meets and will not if the trajectory doesn't meet.  The lines won’t meet if the trajectory will not line up at some point. 

(a nice warning box here stating lines not set to meet or trajectories do not meet would have been nice as I then would have save another 30 minutes.) One can hope I am not being critical just seems too simple.  I have learned many many programs with just using them and turbocad has been
The toughest so far.

I just wanted to add a little to help the next frustrated person who obtained the program to do something that looked simple.

William .



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* October 22, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
#23
Yep...Join Polyline still sucks...For some reason only working on Layer 0 and not user defined layer ...?????

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