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Interesting Move by Competitor
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December 06, 2010, 09:20:13 PM
I noticed today that Alibre now includes a copy of MoI with their expert version, so I decided to check out MoI.  http://moi3d.com/

I think this is a gutsy move for Alibre, including a 3rd party modeling program, but Alibre, like TurboCAD sucks when it comes to organic shapes. So the inclusion kind of expands capabilities Alibre's capabilities. To test it with TurboCAD I created a 3D organic shape in MoI and exported it in all formats. STP seems the best so far to me and the object is quite editable in TC once there. IMSI/Design might think about this inclusion. MoI is about $300 USD and seems pretty easy to learn.



* December 06, 2010, 11:22:03 PM
#1
Alibre has almost zero surfacing capability, TC is a different planet.  Neither are freeform modelers.  All Alibre does is replace faces with ones you've described in MoI.  I'm of the opinion that T-splines integrated into TC would be the killer app, myself.   

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December 07, 2010, 06:45:11 AM
#2
Funny that you say that Don. When I purchased TurboCAD v4 Pro, It came bundled (with a price) with Trispectives 3D from 3D Eye. That product introduced me to 3D. That product, which I still use on occasion, became IronCAD http://www.ironcad.com/

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* December 07, 2010, 08:22:30 AM
#3
Thanks for the tip Don.

I agree that having this type of capabilty would be great.  One thing that comes to mind is that I believe it would be good business for companies to make other programs like this available to its user base.

With the pace of developement these days, it seems almost impossible for one company to try to do everything in house.  It would be a great service to it's customers for them to search out the best applications and make them available as a plug in.

An example would be adding an organic modeler such as this and Octane Render.  I have noticed that some companies have been moving toward providing plug ins free of charge in order to expand their customer base.

If a company such as IMSI were to devote the resources to making sure these types of programs worked as smoothly as possible with TC it would make life a lot easier.

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December 07, 2010, 08:41:36 PM
#4
Don, how do you get an imported surface object to render so smoothly?

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* December 07, 2010, 08:45:23 PM
#5
Don

Have you given the new Blender 2.55 beta a try?  The program is free and it appears to have very powerful modeling capabilities.  You can download it now, and from what I understand the full version will be out in the near future.

I intend to kick it's tires once the new version is released.  another plus is that it has a free plug in that is in beta now for Octane Render.  TC, Blender, and Octane Render could prove to be a very powerful combination of programs for those who are so inclined.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 09:40:23 PM by Rod Cole »

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December 08, 2010, 06:28:44 AM
#6
Don, how do you get an imported surface object to render so smoothly?

Hi Brad, The save options in MoI are pretty good, as you can save from a variety of formats and where any of the mesh styles allow you you to chooses the number of polygons and such. I found saving as stp looked just like a TurboCAD wireframe, although all components came in as one object, which may be okay for some types of work. This has always been one of the important factors about having to incorporate other CAD models - they have to looks and act as good as those objects created right in TC. So far, I am impressed with MoI. One thing that I am tickled by is what we are supposed to have in TC with our loft guides that don't work. They work in MoI and it is going to open a lot of doors that have been locked in TC.


December 08, 2010, 06:35:01 AM
#7
Don

Have you given the new Blender 2.55 beta a try?  The program is free and it appears to have very powerful modeling capabilities.  You can download it now, and from what I understand the full version will be out in the near future.

I intend to kick it's tires once the new version is released.  another plus is that it has a free plug in that is in beta now for Octane Render.  TC, Blender, and Octane Render could prove to be a very powerful combination of programs for those who are so inclined.

Hi Rod, I had looked at Blender a couple times over the years but always found the user interface about as user friendly as a pit bull in heat. I always felt that it must have been developed by a mad scientist and was beyond my comprehension. Maybe it has changed since then, but I have not revisited it. I think that MoI will be what I need in my toolbox for organic shapes. BUt, I still need to spend more time with it to know for sure. At $300, it is within what I would think reasonable for a new tool.


December 08, 2010, 07:24:45 AM
#8
Don, how do you get an imported surface object to render so smoothly?

Hi Brad, The save options in MoI are pretty good, as you can save from a variety of formats and where any of the mesh styles allow you you to chooses the number of polygons and such. I found saving as stp looked just like a TurboCAD wireframe, although all components came in as one object, which may be okay for some types of work. This has always been one of the important factors about having to incorporate other CAD models - they have to looks and act as good as those objects created right in TC. So far, I am impressed with MoI. One thing that I am tickled by is what we are supposed to have in TC with our loft guides that don't work. They work in MoI and it is going to open a lot of doors that have been locked in TC.

Thanks for the input Don. I've been trying to get a decent export of a native Maya file by using the Maya trial. So far not much luck. Maya has no STP export. I haven't played with all export options just yet. I've used TrueSpace as a go between in the past with good results, but it's no help in this case.

MoI looks very promising as a compatible organic modeler. I appreciate the heads up. And yes, I agree that IMSI Design needs to address this in a future version. I think it would open up many doors for TC.

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December 08, 2010, 07:32:53 AM
#9
Thanks for the input Don. I've been trying to get a decent export of a native Maya file by using the Maya trial. So far not much luck. Maya has no STP export. I haven't played with all export options just yet. I've used TrueSpace as a go between in the past with good results, but it's no help in this case.

MoI looks very promising as a compatible organic modeler. I appreciate the heads up. And yes, I agree that IMSI Design needs to address this in a future version. I think it would open up many doors for TC.

Brad, someone on the MoI forum said that they have had good results saving sat from MoI and opening in TC and Alibre. He posted this example (it is a pdf of a spider):
http://moi3d.com/forum/get_attachment.php?webtag=MOI&hash=65f28517fce89babbbcfb086c021dd17


December 08, 2010, 09:24:35 AM
#10
Thanks for the input Don. I've been trying to get a decent export of a native Maya file by using the Maya trial. So far not much luck. Maya has no STP export. I haven't played with all export options just yet. I've used TrueSpace as a go between in the past with good results, but it's no help in this case.

MoI looks very promising as a compatible organic modeler. I appreciate the heads up. And yes, I agree that IMSI Design needs to address this in a future version. I think it would open up many doors for TC.

Brad, someone on the MoI forum said that they have had good results saving sat from MoI and opening in TC and Alibre. He posted this example (it is a pdf of a spider):
http://moi3d.com/forum/get_attachment.php?webtag=MOI&hash=65f28517fce89babbbcfb086c021dd17


Thanks Don, that's a great example. I'm excited to give MoI a try.

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* December 08, 2010, 09:45:54 AM
#11
Same secret handshake  needed for Blender that is needed for Octane Render it appears.

Very powerful programs, just not easy to learn.  I guess it is a good thing that we have some rainy days this time of year.

I plan to send my order for the turorials we discussed some time soon now.

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December 08, 2010, 09:59:47 AM
#12
Don

Have you given the new Blender 2.55 beta a try?  The program is free and it appears to have very powerful modeling capabilities.  You can download it now, and from what I understand the full version will be out in the near future.

I intend to kick it's tires once the new version is released.  another plus is that it has a free plug in that is in beta now for Octane Render.  TC, Blender, and Octane Render could prove to be a very powerful combination of programs for those who are so inclined.

Hi Rod, I had looked at Blender a couple times over the years but always found the user interface about as user friendly as a pit bull in heat. I always felt that it must have been developed by a mad scientist and was beyond my comprehension. Maybe it has changed since then, but I have not revisited it. I think that MoI will be what I need in my toolbox for organic shapes. BUt, I still need to spend more time with it to know for sure. At $300, it is within what I would think reasonable for a new tool.

Not sure what you are saying about pitbulls, as I have a female pit & she is not bad at all when in heat.  ??? I know, that is the media's view of them, but as an owner of two, I am not sure I would rather have any other breed.

Now back to Blender. I agree with Don in that the UI is just plain scary. I have seen the awsome renders & animations at blender.com, but just dont have the time to go through the tutorials to learn it. Hell I have just started one of the two I purchased from you Don.

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December 08, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
#13
I've used TrueSpace as a go between in the past with good results,

Any opinions on TrueSpace

Kmartim post
http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,2633.msg14418.html#msg14418
Led to this link
http://www.caligari.com/
TrueSpace 7.6 (free?) Seems like there's always a catch somewhere, but I haven't found it.

Any opinions of its worth any effort.

Alan H.

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December 08, 2010, 10:28:54 AM
#14
Once again, another very good program in TrueSpace. But once again, & not to the level of blender, a very un-cad like UI, which most of the users here are probably more accustomed to. Once again, great program & totally free.

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December 08, 2010, 11:47:22 AM
#15
I've used TrueSpace as a go between in the past with good results,

Any opinions on TrueSpace

Kmartim post
http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,2633.msg14418.html#msg14418
Led to this link
http://www.caligari.com/
TrueSpace 7.6 (free?) Seems like there's always a catch somewhere, but I haven't found it.

Any opinions of its worth any effort.

Alan H.

TrueSpace is a great program. Like TC it uses the Lightworks rendering engine and takes even better advantage of Lightwork's abilities. It is a tough application to just pickup and go with though. The interface really takes some getting used to. The program is free because it fell victim to Microsoft attempting to copy the Google/SketchUp releationship. Unfortunately Microsoft gave up in less than a year and TrueSpace has been placed on the shelf indefinitely to collect dust. A pity really. V-Ray had even created a plug-in for TrueSpace.

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December 08, 2010, 12:14:19 PM
#16
Unfortunately Microsoft gave up in less than a year and TrueSpace has been placed on the shelf indefinitely to collect dust. A pity really. V-Ray had even created a plug-in for TrueSpace.

Maybe that's a reason not to invest efforts with this program?

I started going through the tutorial that I showed in the screen shot and realize this is a major investment in efforts.  Jury's out......  I put it on hold and decided to give my attention to turbocad for now.

Alan H.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 01:24:56 PM by Alan H. »

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December 08, 2010, 12:36:51 PM
#17
Not sure what you are saying about pitbulls, as I have a female pit & she is not bad at all when in heat.  ??? I know, that is the media's view of them, but as an owner of two, I am not sure I would rather have any other breed.

Sorry Ken, I didn't mean to offend you. It was the first thought that popped into my mind (probably media based) and it never crossed my mind that it was a poor choice of words. Hopefully you can find it in your heart to forgive me.


December 08, 2010, 01:00:07 PM
#18
Not sure what you are saying about pitbulls, as I have a female pit & she is not bad at all when in heat.  ??? I know, that is the media's view of them, but as an owner of two, I am not sure I would rather have any other breed.

Sorry Ken, I didn't mean to offend you. It was the first thought that popped into my mind (probably media based) and it never crossed my mind that it was a poor choice of words. Hopefully you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

Just giving you a hard time Don. No offense taken. I just like informing people that the American Pitbull Terrier & like dogs are very mis understood. My newest puppy, a Bullboxer Pit (Boxer / American Pitbull Terrier mix) is a handfull.

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* December 08, 2010, 06:13:28 PM
#19
In its previous incarnation, IMSI did a couple of other collaborative offers.  TrueSpace was one of them, when it was V5/5.2 and TC was around V7, and another was CADkey, at V19, before Kubotek mopped them up, TC maybe V9 or so.  Bob Mayer probably knows who benefited from those.

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December 08, 2010, 09:52:13 PM
#20
Here is a model I just created in MoI. It is based on a Rhino tutorial (Rhino & MoI are creations of the same person, so they are, as far as I know, very similar in a number of ways).

I saved to stp format and opened in TurboCAD where I applied materials, including the label, which I made in Photoshop.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 10:05:36 PM by Don Cheke »

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December 08, 2010, 10:06:32 PM
#21
re: Here is a model I just created in MoI.

That's pretty slick Don. I downloaded the MoI trial tonight to give it a try. I was surprised to see it can only import four different formats. Unfortunately they really don't help me with the Maya dilemma. It does look very promising and useful for TC related work though. What are your thoughts so far?

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December 08, 2010, 10:18:49 PM
#22
It does look very promising and useful for TC related work though. What are your thoughts so far?

Hi Brad,

It is definitely something that won't replace TurboCAD, but I can sure see it as a good tool to add to the toolbox. Although it is way too soon to give much feedback, I can say that it seems pretty easy to use (relatively speaking) and it will take a while to discover all the tricks. On a shape such as the squeeze bottle, it needed to come into TurboCAD completely finished (all fillets made) as all the faces were separate objects (but still ACIS Solids, including the 2D). I was able to intersect a label profile without issue so I could apply the wrapped image, so that was good. Hidden Line works great when using the stp option to save from MoI and that is a real positive.

If I can make a computer mouse with MoI, something I could never manage in TurboCAD all these years, I will do a dance in my office. I know you managed making one, but you are a magician when it comes to TurboCAD.

I have attached a screen shot of the the model as seen in MoI and an capture of the HL bottle in TC.


December 09, 2010, 02:52:46 AM
#23
It does look very promising and useful for TC related work though. What are your thoughts so far?
If I can make a computer mouse with MoI, something I could never manage in TurboCAD all these years, I will do a dance in my office. I know you managed making one, but you are a magician when it comes to TurboCAD.

Thanks for your input Don. That mouse you're talking about was possibly the most difficult object I've tried to model with TC. I believe I ended up using lofted splines mostly. I appreciate the compliment Don, but I would say Henry and Winston are the magicians when it comes to difficult shapes in TC.

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December 09, 2010, 08:25:43 AM
#24
That mouse you're talking about was possibly the most difficult object I've tried to model with TC.

Brad,

Is the mouse you referring too,  your profile picture?  That's a profound statement coming from you, can you post the image.  I searched the gallery, no luck finding it ???

Alan H.


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* December 09, 2010, 11:27:28 AM
#25
Don, is adding Rhino type of capabilities to TC the main idea behind your endevours?

Just curious about what it is that you are up to is all.  It sounds like a good idea to try it out no matter how it turns out.  You will have learned something valuable no matter the outcome.

Thanks for sharing with us and allowing us to follow along as this unfolds.

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December 09, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
#26
Don, is adding Rhino type of capabilities to TC the main idea behind your endevours?

Just curious about what it is that you are up to is all.  It sounds like a good idea to try it out no matter how it turns out.  You will have learned something valuable no matter the outcome.

Thanks for sharing with us and allowing us to follow along as this unfolds.

Hi Rod, If the ability to create organic shapes (seen in so many products like steam irons, power tool housings, product packaging, fuselages, car bodies) were included as part of TurboCAD that would be the ideal situation. Since that is not happening, it would nice to see TurboCAD partner up with MoI (or something affordable like it) so that designers can approach more CAD drawing jobs. Perhaps a partnership could mean better integration between file sharing. If TurboCAD had ensured that the Loft Guides that they included a couple or so versions back actually worked, that would have been half the battle. Look at the attached, one circle, one oblong and two guide lines. Select objects to sweep, select rail guides, adjust options if need be, and bam - you have a near perfect object. It would take a lot of time to create this in TC, if you could get it at all. I really love TC, but in some ways it has kept me limited.


* December 09, 2010, 01:58:23 PM
#27
Don, is adding Rhino type of capabilities to TC the main idea behind your endevours?

Just curious about what it is that you are up to is all.  It sounds like a good idea to try it out no matter how it turns out.  You will have learned something valuable no matter the outcome.

Thanks for sharing with us and allowing us to follow along as this unfolds.

Hi Rod, If the ability to create organic shapes (seen in so many products like steam irons, power tool housings, product packaging, fuselages, car bodies) were included as part of TurboCAD that would be the ideal situation. Since that is not happening, it would nice to see TurboCAD partner up with MoI (or something affordable like it) so that designers can approach more CAD drawing jobs. Perhaps a partnership could mean better integration between file sharing. If TurboCAD had ensured that the Loft Guides that they included a couple or so versions back actually worked, that would have been half the battle. Look at the attached, one circle, one oblong and two guide lines. Select objects to sweep, select rail guides, adjust options if need be, and bam - you have a near perfect object. It would take a lot of time to create this in TC, if you could get it at all. I really love TC, but in some ways it has kept me limited.

Bad example, Don ;-)

Henry H

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* December 09, 2010, 03:58:21 PM
#28
I really love TC's ability to have a rendered image with dimensions placed on workplanes.

This allows you to have a dimensioned 3D rendering of the design.  Does MoI have this capability?

It would be really great to see if the work you are doing might just open some doors to a more complete understanding of TC's full potential as well as being able to integrate other programs.

Nice Henry.  I am just about ready to start making some mechanical ducting designs myself.  The timing of this subject is perfect for me.

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December 09, 2010, 07:25:37 PM
#29
That mouse you're talking about was possibly the most difficult object I've tried to model with TC.

Brad,

Is the mouse you referring too,  your profile picture?  That's a profound statement coming from you, can you post the image.  I searched the gallery, no luck finding it ???

Alan H.

Yes it's one and the same. In the end lofting splines worked pretty well. The biggest difficultly was in trying to accurately loft the sides of the mouse to match the real mouse. It would've been the perfect project for NURBS. The last image shows the shape of the side piece best.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:27:32 PM by Brad Easterday »

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December 09, 2010, 08:16:54 PM
#30
That mouse you're talking about was possibly the most difficult object I've tried to model with TC.

Brad,

Is the mouse you referring too,  your profile picture?  That's a profound statement coming from you, can you post the image.  I searched the gallery, no luck finding it ???

Alan H.

Here is a stylized rendering of the sides. Even though they where made by lofting open-ended splines, the resulting objects are solids according to TC.

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December 09, 2010, 09:57:04 PM
#31
Yes it's one and the same.

I can't decide which version I like better and I really tried to pick one.

Skillfully done, thanks for sharing.

Alan H.

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December 10, 2010, 09:18:28 AM
#32
I just noticed that MoI uses 3dm as its native format (same as Rhino), so this is another bonus as TurboCAD can open that file format directly and so far it looks pretty good, results wise.

Like so many CAD programs, there is next to nothing for comprehensive learning and I am finding it difficult to know where and how to approach more complex shapes in MoI. I wish it was easier for this old brain to figure things out, but alas it is a stressful experience trying to learn MoI. I guess I am just going to have to decide on a model to try, photograph some reference material and work at it one bit at a time. I guess I should remember that it took a long time to become proficient with TurboCAD, so there is a good change it will take me more than a week to become proficient with MoI.

I don't know if IMSI is watching this thread but I asked Michael Gibson (the creator of MoI) the question below.

"Are you bound solely to Alibre with your working arrangement, or are you able to partner with other CAD companies as well, in the same manner?"

He said: "The deal with Alibre is non-exclusive, so it is possible for me to partner with other CAD companies as well if they are interested."

I hope that you (IMSI) might keep it in mind.


December 15, 2010, 06:13:11 AM
#33
Well, I have had enough of MoI. There is simply not enough in the way of good tutorials to help this newbie come to grips with it. I simply can't get my head around drawing the way they show in the couple of 3rd party silent movies that are available. For somebody who has been rated as being in the 99th percentile for spacial perception, I sure have trouble seeing the primitive shapes that make up 'organic' shapes. My synapses are just not firing.


December 15, 2010, 08:18:20 AM
#34
Any reason not to consider DAZ|Hexagon 2
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/hexagon/-/?
It may have some of the features that you are interested in...
and it has lots of tutorials.

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December 15, 2010, 08:44:29 AM
#35
Any reason not to consider DAZ|Hexagon 2
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/hexagon/-/?
It may have some of the features that you are interested in...
and it has lots of tutorials.

I had not heard of Hexagon.

What TC really needs is some of the tools that Ashlar-Vellum's Cobalt has. Look at this turorial and note some of the tools: http://www.ashlar.com/sections/support/tutorials/pitcher/pitcher.pdf


December 15, 2010, 09:57:26 AM
#36
then I think that Aartform Curvy 3D is worth checking out
http://www.curvy3d.com/

or maybe Sculptris Alpha 5
http://www.sculptris.com/
 which has been bought out by ZBrush
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=090617

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December 21, 2010, 06:30:16 PM
#37
Now that I practiced with MoI a bit more, I think I am sold on the idea that it will be my companion software to TurboCAD. It has taken a bit of work to get my head wrapped around drawing a new way but I think I am slowly adapting. The text on the images says it all.


* December 21, 2010, 06:46:55 PM
#38
Nice work, Don.  Does MoI make life easier on that smoothing iron challenge you posed a few days back?  Can you answer a question I couldn't find an answer to on the MoI site:  are the curves associative?  Does a surface update if you edit the curves, or do you have to rebuild it?

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* December 21, 2010, 06:57:22 PM
#39
Now that I practiced with MoI a bit more, I think I am sold on the idea that it will be my companion software to TurboCAD. It has taken a bit of work to get my head wrapped around drawing a new way but I think I am slowly adapting. The text on the images says it all.

Impressive. Very smooth.

Henry H

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December 21, 2010, 07:11:15 PM
#40
Nice work, Don.  Does MoI make life easier on that smoothing iron challenge you posed a few days back?  Can you answer a question I couldn't find an answer to on the MoI site:  are the curves associative?  Does a surface update if you edit the curves, or do you have to rebuild it?

Thanks Murray, Although I am far from knowing all I need to operate MoI I will take a stab at answering your questions.

Although I have not tried the iron in MoI, I believe I will and I think it will be way better. A user can define a start profile and an end profile (or a number in between) and some guides and sweep the profiles using the guides. You wouldn't believe what you can do with these sweep/guide tools. See first two attachments.

The curves are indeed associative but I think only until you start adding components together. However, after that you can node edit your 3D model. See third attachment.

It really is a versatile program, IMHO.



* December 21, 2010, 07:50:08 PM
#41

Although I have not tried the iron in MoI, I believe I will and I think it will be way better. A user can define a start profile and an end profile (or a number in between) and some guides and sweep the profiles using the guides. You wouldn't believe what you can do with these sweep/guide tools. See first two attachments.


It really is a versatile program, IMHO.



That's what TCad ought to do but cannot.

Henry H

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December 21, 2010, 08:58:11 PM
#42
Now that I practiced with MoI a bit more, I think I am sold on the idea that it will be my companion software to TurboCAD. It has taken a bit of work to get my head wrapped around drawing a new way but I think I am slowly adapting. The text on the images says it all.

Nice mouse Don! I'm liking MoI more and more.

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BradE [ dean3Design ]
Core i7-3930K CPU @ 4.20GHz, 32GB 1333 DDR3, FirePro V5900
TC 21 Platinum (64-Bit) Running on Win7 Pro SP1


* December 21, 2010, 10:33:18 PM
#43
Don

When you first started this thread you mentioned that Alibre had just added MoI to its expert version.

I am curious to know if you have been able to figure out how all of this fits together in relation to TC.

Were you, and are you still thinking that you would use all three programs.  Or are you trying to add more functionality to TC in order to use it instead of Alibre.

If I remember correctly you had mentioned that Alibre has recently changed its priceing and feature selection.  I take it that this was a major motivation for your work here.

BTW Thanks for sharing, and very impressive work.


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December 22, 2010, 06:44:19 AM
#44
Don

When you first started this thread you mentioned that Alibre had just added MoI to its expert version.

I am curious to know if you have been able to figure out how all of this fits together in relation to TC.

Were you, and are you still thinking that you would use all three programs.  Or are you trying to add more functionality to TC in order to use it instead of Alibre.

If I remember correctly you had mentioned that Alibre has recently changed its priceing and feature selection.  I take it that this was a major motivation for your work here.

BTW Thanks for sharing, and very impressive work.



Hi Rod,

The looking at different CAD programs came about because I felt that I wanted to expand the line of products I was writing tutorials for. I was feeling that staying with one program was pretty limiting, market wise. I purchased Alibre hoping it would be the one as it had some nice features, including easy to use constraints and loft guides. The $99 price for the standard version was a huge factor too. Alibre was very easy to learn but very limiting on what it can be used for (mechanical mostly) and the paper space equivalent was less than stellar in my opinion. I did write one tutorial and planned on writing more but not having a real in, into the community, I sold only a couple copies. So there was no incentive to continue. Couple that with all the changes Alibre made to their versions (standard no longer exists) and I would have needed to upgrade to their pro or expert version for a few hundred bucks. With no rendering capabilities, other than a third party low res output version of key shot, it was a no-brainer that Alibre would not be the one. Don't get me wrong, Alibre is pretty sweet in some ways and a lot of fun to use. I am really glad I tried it as it helped me realize two important things. One is that there are many programs that use the parts and assembly approach which is good to know and second that we have an outstanding program in TC with its versatility.

As I continued to check things out I always had at the back of my mind that I wanted to expand what I was drawing and this needed to include organic designs. I had been feeling limited by TC in this regard since I began using it. I had wanted to create a computer mouse from my early days of TC and just could not do it no matter how often I tried. This was frustrating. I also wanted to create an airplane fuselage and a car body, just to say that I could. Although I created a simple version of each in TC, these are not what I had in mind, so that left me frustrated as well.

I have tried several programs now:

AutoCAD, which I didn't like at all seemed so hard to use compared to TC and even archaic in some regards. I know I didn't give it a fair chance, but at the price they want for it, I couldn't afford it anyway.

I had a brief look at Modo and felt that I could never feel comfortable using nurbs drawing – it just seems so unlike real-world construction. I also felt it too costly.

I looked at Cobalt and found it, like Alibre, was pretty cool and had some nice functions, but it is costly. I think I would have gone for this one had support continued to answer my emails after the first one and had they had a user forum. Can you believe that they don't have one available to new users? It sounds like they had one, but are in the midst of making changes. I couldn't afford it anyway but my wife said that if I needed it for business we would make it happen. She is always so supportive! In many ways Cobalt felt like TC, so I think it would have been relatively easy to learn. Market-wise, I don't know how big their market is as it is not a name one hears in the CAD world.

I tried MoI before I tried Cobalt and I liked what I saw immediately but the new way to draw was making me feel stress as it seemed so different to what I am used to with TC. So I put it aside while I looked at Cobalt. Coming back to it now I don't feel as stressed with the new concepts and now that I have made some models I like it even more. The price is right.  The program founder is always on the user forum and is approachable and accommodating. Although MoI is still a relatively new name I think Michael Gibson will be sticking with it and bringing it places. He seems to know what he is doing. I would definitely consider writing tutorials for this package if I can get good and comfortable with it. It is definitely good companion software. I believe that is what it is intended to be, not a be all and end all CAD package. Michael is developing version three and he is sure open to user's suggestions, which is wonderful to see. I will be buying MoI when my trial runs out.

I am so pleased that I have tried several programs now as it has helped me to think more outside the box, even when using TC and it has reminded me that I don't have to limit myself to one system. I feel that my world is a little broader now, having been exposed to these other systems. I must say that I still feel TC is tops and I am so glad that I stumbled across it all those years ago.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 06:49:50 AM by Don Cheke »

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* December 22, 2010, 09:03:10 AM
#45
Thanks for the in depth reply Don.

After seeing your mouse created using MoI, it got me to thinking about how I could use a program like this to support my own work using Chief Architect and TurboCAD.

It is funny sometimes how things just seem to fall into place.  I was on the CA forum following a discussion about Vray and other Rendering packages.  The topic of rendering speed versus the organic quality of items such as furniture using high poly counts came up.

A little background, programs such as CA have been around for a while now.  When they first started out there was a very real need to keep the surface count of inserted symbol items to a minimum in order to ensure acceptable program performance.

Over time there have been a large number to symbol items produced with this thought in mind.  Now that we have a higher computer performance and new rendering capabilities there is an interest in having higher polycount content so that renderings will have a more natural, or organic feel.

There are many symbols available through online warehouses at this time, but I am wondering how large of a market there would be for tutorials geared to teach people how to create their own organic creations.  I know I would want to have this capability.

Another aspect of this situation is the quality and speed of rendering among the various rendering progams available.  My personal favorite is Octane Render, but it is not easy to learn by any means.  Another one of those having to get your head around a whole new way of thinking type of challenges.

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December 22, 2010, 05:51:09 PM
#46
Very good thoughts on the affordable CAD programs.

You know you missed your calling. Professional CAD instructors pull down a lot of money. And you would have been good at it.

Just imagine being in an office where you can pick which CAD program you want to play with that day. Hmmm Catia? Pro/E Siemens NX? So many choices...

And classes, oh the money... Students pay big bucks for 2 and 3 day classes. I remember a class I took for pro/e. It was $1200 for a couple days. And the room was full!!!

Mike...

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* December 22, 2010, 06:24:02 PM
#47
Can't believe I missed this thread. I love Moi and have been playing with it for a while and for the same reasons you said Don, Basically to compensate for what is missing in TC as far as organic shapes.
The other program I use is Silo which is the Moi equivallent for poly modeling this allows you to do freeform modeling of textural shapes very well. Of course you know that I use Thea for all rendering. I find they all integrate very well back to TC.
Now Blender is a killer program but you have to dive absolutely full in and get a reference book because the UI is absolutely different from anything else. But that said it is very logical once you understand it. The funny thing is once you use other apps you tend to discover better ways to work in TC.


December 24, 2010, 06:22:34 PM
#48
I am sure enjoying modeling in MoI and this is the fruits of today's labors. I hope you like it.

I had a heck of a time getting that roof bulge, but between MoI and some edits in TurboCAD, it turned out just as I had hoped. Some fillets that could not be done in MoI were possible in TC.


December 24, 2010, 08:13:50 PM
#49
I am sure enjoying modeling in MoI and this is the fruits of today's labors. I hope you like it.

I had a heck of a time getting that roof bulge, but between MoI and some edits in TurboCAD, it turned out just as I had hoped. Some fillets that could not be done in MoI were possible in TC.

Very nice Don, and just in time for Christmas. I've been playing a bit with the MoI trial too. So far, I really like it. The level of compatibility with TC is almost to good to be true.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 08:15:42 PM by Brad Easterday »

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BradE [ dean3Design ]
Core i7-3930K CPU @ 4.20GHz, 32GB 1333 DDR3, FirePro V5900
TC 21 Platinum (64-Bit) Running on Win7 Pro SP1


* December 25, 2010, 06:35:06 AM
#50
Season's greetings, Don.  There's a predictable way of doming polygon faces: use a sphere, ellipsoid or cylinder to describe the surface, and intersect it with the block.  The edges can be easily blended and there's constant tangency between the faces.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 06:37:12 AM by murray dickinson »

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January 06, 2011, 11:13:14 PM
#51
One last MoI construct to show, then I will let this thread die. This time, the translation to TurboCAD wasn't without issue, but not so bad as to keep me from completing the project.

For some reason the render turned out exceptionally well without too much effort, if one can say that about their own work.


* January 07, 2011, 07:40:27 AM
#52
One last MoI construct to show, then I will let this thread die. This time, the translation to TurboCAD wasn't without issue, but not so bad as to keep me from completing the project.

For some reason the render turned out exceptionally well without too much effort, if one can say that about their own work.

Actually, That's brilliant work Don. Thanks for posting it.  -  Al

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January 07, 2011, 07:48:17 AM
#53
Very nice Don, I may have to try moi myself.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel.. because those who mind do not matter, and those who matter do not mind"


* January 07, 2011, 09:15:40 AM
#54
Excellent work Don.  You keep setting the bar higher.  :)

Brock

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* January 07, 2011, 10:29:10 AM
#55
One last MoI construct to show, then I will let this thread die. This time, the translation to TurboCAD wasn't without issue, but not so bad as to keep me from completing the project.

For some reason the render turned out exceptionally well without too much effort, if one can say that about their own work.

I'm impressed.

Henry H

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January 07, 2011, 08:38:06 PM
#56
One last MoI construct to show, then I will let this thread die. This time, the translation to TurboCAD wasn't without issue, but not so bad as to keep me from completing the project.

For some reason the render turned out exceptionally well without too much effort, if one can say that about their own work.

Excellent model and render Don! I think you've proven what an asset MoI can be to a TC user.

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BradE [ dean3Design ]
Core i7-3930K CPU @ 4.20GHz, 32GB 1333 DDR3, FirePro V5900
TC 21 Platinum (64-Bit) Running on Win7 Pro SP1


January 07, 2011, 11:45:00 PM
#57
One last MoI construct to show

Very believable work, and I find myself wondering how I would do it in TurboCAD.  I would probably have to do a lot of lofting.


Jeff


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January 08, 2011, 02:54:05 PM
#58
Wow, this is quite a thread.  Bookmarked it for future reference.  Off to download a trial of MoI !  Even though most of my work work is easily accomplished in TCAD, I have a few other product ideas that will need some complex surfacing.  Great stuff - this forum is quite the resource, and you TCAD masters are very generous with your time and experience.
Steve

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* January 08, 2011, 07:50:27 PM
#59
One last MoI construct to show

Very believable work, and I find myself wondering how I would do it in TurboCAD.  I would probably have to do a lot of lofting.


Jeff



Maybe not. Here is an Extrusion intersected with an elongated Sphere; another Extrusion subtracted from the result; sliced and filleted...

Henry H

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* January 09, 2011, 05:23:27 PM
#60
Henry as always you make these things seem so easy how about some screen shots showing the steps to acomplish this model.


* January 09, 2011, 08:32:46 PM
#61
Henry as always you make these things seem so easy how about some screen shots showing the steps to acomplish this model.

Here ya go, Stephen...

Henry H

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* January 11, 2011, 07:44:32 PM
#62
Man that is a cool workflow. Thanks Henry I just learned something new! I now realize that I do not use the intersect tool nearly enough.


January 14, 2011, 08:41:43 PM
#63
Henry as always you make these things seem so easy how about some screen shots showing the steps to acomplish this model.

Here ya go, Stephen...

Henry H


That is interesting...and not complicated.. it just goes to show you that it is a good idea to examine the 3 orthographic views of an object before attempting to construct it!

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Craig
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* September 08, 2011, 04:34:10 PM
#64
I just noticed that MoI uses 3dm as its native format (same as Rhino), so this is another bonus as TurboCAD can open that file format directly and so far it looks pretty good, results wise.

Like so many CAD programs, there is next to nothing for comprehensive learning and I am finding it difficult to know where and how to approach more complex shapes in MoI. I wish it was easier for this old brain to figure things out, but alas it is a stressful experience trying to learn MoI. I guess I am just going to have to decide on a model to try, photograph some reference material and work at it one bit at a time. I guess I should remember that it took a long time to become proficient with TurboCAD, so there is a good change it will take me more than a week to become proficient with MoI.

I don't know if IMSI is watching this thread but I asked Michael Gibson (the creator of MoI) the question below.

"Are you bound solely to Alibre with your working arrangement, or are you able to partner with other CAD companies as well, in the same manner?"

He said: "The deal with Alibre is non-exclusive, so it is possible for me to partner with other CAD companies as well if they are interested."

I hope that you (IMSI) might keep it in mind.


Just started trying out my version of MOI recently Don, and could not agree more about the potential of IMSI acquiring the brilliant innovation in the NURBS field  that Michael Gibson has developed. Michael has created the perfect interface between organic modelling and CAD solid modelling, great mindset.

If I wanted to add that facility to CAD, and I was a head hunter, Michael Gibson would be my first call.

We are early days in the combination between the two disciplines, and it is my belief that is the way the market is moving.

Here's hoping that the possibility exists.



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