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Viewport layers & design director layers conflicting in display of 3D objects
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* September 23, 2010, 08:39:54 PM
This program is slowly making me crazy.

I thought viewport layers were supposed to totally specify what layers to let through, no matter what settings there were in the design director.

In my case, I'm using the viewport to show a hidden line view of a 3D model, but with Renderable Objects on to let through the dimensions.
 
What's been happening is that a particular layer won't show up in the viewport, if its a 3D object (thickness based) even though its selected in the viewport properties, until and unless its also on in the design director. In other words, the viewport layers are subtractive, rather than being a complete replacement for the design director layer layout.

The only objects that are immune from this effect are the 2D / dimensional objects. I can specify them to show up and they will, no matter the setting in the design director.

To me this seems like a bug or oversight, but perhaps someone can explain logically why objects in the viewport should be dependent on the design director outside the viewport.

Thanks,
Mark
Turbocad Deluxe 16.2
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 08:41:44 PM by MarkS »

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TCW Pro 14.2
TC Deluxe 16.2 Build 53.2


September 24, 2010, 08:16:43 AM
#1
Well, sadly, some of us have been bitching about this for years, particularly in the beta forums. It seems to be a bug that won't go away. 
My take is that sometimes drawings develop this propensity after a while, and often closing it and re-opening it sorts things out - but not always.  Often you simply have to select the layer both in the view port and also in the design director for the object to appear.

Another detail is - don't make the 3D object out of something white (assuming you are using a white background!)  You will wonder why the hell you can't see it.

It is wearisome to get upset about bugs, I find it's best to figure out the work-around and move on.  Maybe they'll get fixed some time, but if so, others will appear.  It's inevitable with a program as complex as this one.  Enjoy what it can do, for so little money, and get over the stuff it can't!

Roland

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Roland Aldridge
Windows 7 ultimate, Core i7 3.07GHz, 4 cores, 9G memory GEForce GTX 285


* September 24, 2010, 03:10:33 PM
#2
What bothers me is the hours it takes to figure out that you've just hit a bug, and then more time trawling around for a work-around. Is there a list somewhere of known bugs?

My workaround for the moment is to use layer sets. Which is also a bit weird, bordering on buggy.

There appear to be two entirely different systems for managing layers in groups. One is called "layer templates" and is in the Design Director, and the other is in the layer dialog and is called "layer sets". Why? Layer sets aren't available from the layer dialog, and layer templates aren't available from the Director.  Layer Templates don't take effect until you visit modelspace (which took awhile to puzzle out). 
 
Thanks,
Mark

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TCW Pro 14.2
TC Deluxe 16.2 Build 53.2


* September 25, 2010, 08:54:14 PM
#3

I have run into this also.  I am fairly certain that it did work right in the past.  Is this only a problem that occurs in Deluxe or does it apply to other versions as well?


I thought viewport layers were supposed to totally specify what layers to let through, no matter what settings there were in the design director.


I agree that it doesn't seem to make any sense, viewport layers that are dependent on the design director for their visibility are not nearly as useful as they should be.

There appear to be two entirely different systems for managing layers in groups. One is called "layer templates" and is in the Design Director, and the other is in the layer dialog and is called "layer sets". Why? Layer sets aren't available from the layer dialog, and layer templates aren't available from the Director.  Layer Templates don't take effect until you visit modelspace (which took awhile to puzzle out). 
 
Thanks,
Mark


I have not done much with layer sets/templates so I don't understand how they function.  In theory they seem to be very handy.  There isn't much in the help files on this.  Any enlightenment on their use would be helpful.

Thank you

Dan

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Deluxe 16.2
Pro Platinum 18.2
Running on HP HDX laptop w/win7 Home Intel Duo Core, 2.53GHz 4GB RAM, 64Bit OS


* September 26, 2010, 08:23:58 AM
#4

I have not done much with layer sets/templates so I don't understand how they function.  In theory they seem to be very handy.  There isn't much in the help files on this.  Any enlightenment on their use would be helpful.
They are handy, though they would have been barely necessary if viewport layering worked correctly. They are also easy to set up. They idea of a layer template is that you activate a template, and then each of the layers is set to a property you had predetermined. So you might turn on visibility for all the "gidgets" while simultaneously hiding "gadgets", and locking down "widgets".

To create a template layer, open up the design director. Open up Layers. Double click on Layers Template. In the pop-up dialog, give the template a name for what you want to happen.  Open up the little "+" next to Layers template, and you will see your new layer name. Click on the layer name, and you will see all the layers appear in the lower box. Set the visibility and other properties the way you like, though I don't really know how changing line color on the fly works (sounds confusing). Go back to the upper box and click on "Layers Template".  This will cause a list of your templates to appear in the lower box. Click on your new template in the lower box.  In the upper left hand corner of the design Director, click on the checkmark to activate your new layer.

That's it! Easy enough to use. Handy if you want to concentrate on all aspects pertaining to one object (dimensions, main part, small parts). But I'd rather not have to be flicking whole sets of layers on and off all the time -- which I wouldn't if viewport layers worked.

HTH
Mark

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TCW Pro 14.2
TC Deluxe 16.2 Build 53.2


September 26, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
#5
This program is slowly making me crazy.

I have been using TC since v3. I guess I would be beyon crazy by now. :-)

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TurboCAD user since v3
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* September 26, 2010, 01:36:35 PM
#6
Mark,

Thanks for the help! That does make things a little clearer.  Going to take a little playing to get into the swing of using the templates regularly, especially so I don't get confused as to what layers and/or sets I have active.  I can see this being useful.

sure do wish viewport layers worked as the should.

Thanks

Dan
 

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Deluxe 16.2
Pro Platinum 18.2
Running on HP HDX laptop w/win7 Home Intel Duo Core, 2.53GHz 4GB RAM, 64Bit OS