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Finding TurboCad to be a wast of money
Read 31807 times
July 31, 2010, 03:03:53 PM
I'm sorry but I canot beleiave how complicated things are in TurboCad!

When I lernt how to use Autocad I found that after lerning most of the basic comands the rest of the progam was easy but with auto cad when ever you want to do somthing differnt it is like starting all over again.

I have just spent 30min trying to align a couple of simple 3d parts But I cannot work out how to do this with turbo cad yet this is somthing that takes secconds to LERN in autocad.

I wish now that I had spent the extra $5500 on AutoCad yes auto cad is a lot of money BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!

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* July 31, 2010, 03:33:07 PM
#1
You should have address your issue in the forum There are a team of beta masters that been using TC since version 1.That can  help you out of most problems,.Along with that there also testers that use Autocad & TC as well and can assistance with both softwares.

Normally there few testers who review the forum closely on daily bases.How it works they see a posting and respond to query.You should follow up on there responses and helps them if you post a tcw.file and the version your using and dwg.can be open as well.I find TC user friendly and much of the tools are similar to Autocad being verse in both that's my find on it.

If you get in jam there are plenty of youtube videos available.Most of the time the IMSI team put together short video on a new tool commands which some can be found in the Tip and Tricks on the forum home page.It helps if a search is done a lot of times issue as been brought to the forum before.But than again if want to pay the price for 1/3 the cost of new compact car there always that choice.
 :)

http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,214.0.html
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 03:36:52 PM by wd »

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


July 31, 2010, 04:20:08 PM
#2
I have just spent 30min trying to align a couple of simple 3d parts But I cannot work out how to do this with turbo cad yet this is somthing that takes secconds to LERN in autocad.

In a lot of cases there are multiple ways of accomplishing identical results (that goes for all sorts of operations within TurboCAD), but some methods are better than others, of course.  For example, I find myself manipulating 3D objects by their reference point more frequently than using the Assemble by 3 Points tool, though both can be used for the same thing.  Each method has its strengths.

Re:  AutoCAD vs. TurboCAD...  I think it depends on what you're used to.  I have a rocketry friend who tried AutoCAD for 3D after years of using TurboCAD and said the same thing you did, only reversed (in favor of TurboCAD).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 04:21:57 PM by Josh T. »

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Josh T.
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* July 31, 2010, 05:21:45 PM
#3
 I have a rocketry friend who tried AutoCAD for 3D after years of using TurboCAD and said the same thing you did, only reversed (in favor of TurboCAD).

..... I've had AutoCad sales folks ..... (trying to pitch the product at me) .... exit off my property as soon as I show them TCad on my screen ... LOL .... Not one of them was ever "able to or willing to" show me where or how their product excelled


I have 2 flavours of ACad .... I don't use them at all, other than for checking of file conversion (DWG)


I remember asking a friend years ago when I was learning, "Whats the best CAD system to own" .... The reply was ..... "the one that you know, and can actually use"



TCad is a winning because ......
...... always being updated
.......is making progress with the current trends
 .... and ...... is willing to listen to it's end users (clients)

Is simple to use, so long as you understand it's basic fundamentals ....


Cheers
Mike

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July 31, 2010, 09:49:42 PM
#4
nope im sorry but I dont think anyone here is going to be able to convince me to keep useing TurboCad.

I first lrent cad drawing with AutoCad 2009 and find this a much more polished and user freindly program. It just seems to do evry thing faster even drawing simple 2d objects is quicker in Autocad.

The one thing that realy diapoints me is that I have convinced the boss at work to get Turbocad so I'm still going to have to suffer useing it there. at least at work i only have to do very simple 2d drawings.

and as for peple that say TurboCad can do evry thing that AutoCad can do yep you are right but it just takes three times as long and when you need to use the progam to make money that all adds up fast.

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* July 31, 2010, 10:00:29 PM
#5

and as for peple that say TurboCad can do evry thing that AutoCad can do yep you are right but it just takes three times as long and when you need to use the progam to make money that all adds up fast.

That's an interesting point. Do you think it takes longer in TCad because the program responds slower, or because more mouse clicks/keystrokes are required, or because you have to spend more time figuring out how to accomplish some task -- or what? And does TCad actually take thre times as long, or is that figure just an offhand estimate?

Henry H

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July 31, 2010, 10:20:20 PM
#6
For me it is abit of all of the above.

For instance when I draw a line in AutoCad all I have to do is click on a starting point move the mouse in the direction I want to go and type in the linght and thats it plus the cursers stays attatched to the last point so that for the next line I just have move the mouse in the direction I want and type in the lenght.

One of the things I hate most about TurboCad compared to AutoCad is the way that it dose paperspace and veiwports.
I find having to create saved veiws in model space first so that I can then use that to open up a veiwport in the corect orintation to be a pain in the bum. When in autocad all you dou is create a veiw port double click on it and then you have full controll of the model and its orintation.

These things may seem petty and only add 10-15min to each drawing but when you have a lot of drawings to do that 10-15minuites for each drawing can soon add upto a few hours work.

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* August 01, 2010, 12:22:27 AM
#7

Turbocad like any other Cad program can be difficult to learn especially if you started of by using another cad product first ,I was using Autocad at work & Turbocad at home once I'd mastered Turbocad I persuaded my company to buy Turbocad for myself  even though I have Autocad Lt & Autodesk Inventor on my system at work. I only use Turbocad now as once you've persevered with the program you ll get to like it & find it easier to use.I would certainly recommend that you check the training products that are available,  after using Autocad for so many years I to found Turbocad difficult to master but have now since learning it have never looked back ,try the training videos from Cadcourse.com or Cad&Graphics.com & then try some of the tutorials from Textual Creations this is the training route that I followed & it certainly helped me make the transition from Autocad to Turbocad a lot easier.

Regards
Warren

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August 01, 2010, 02:05:48 AM
#8
Glen, it is interesting reading yours and others who have posted here. For the record, I BETA test DesignCad & DoubleCad, also use TurboCad, SolidWorks and AutoCad and I also professionally teach AutoCad and I find that my preference to use is: SolidWorks and TurboCad 1st equal, DoubleCad, DesignCad and then AutoCad - full version and LT. This is also coming from someone who is AutoDesk qualified and have use AutoCad since release 2.5 about 1000 years ago. I am also SolidWorks qualified.

I am not trying to get you to use TurboCad or any other cad program, but when I first started with version 10 of TurboCad, I too wondered what the hell I came up against. After some time of playing about, things started to fall into place and the way I look at it, is that TurboCad makes you think more about what you want to end up with IE how YOU are going to make in the workshop.

I can tell you when teaching AutoCad, the learning curve is still steep and it is with any cad program until you figure out the keys etc. Now, one thing here, you too can change keys in TurboCad to emulate AutoCad. I also think you must not think too low of it if you have got your boss to buy TurboCad. You might have to eat humble pie there because he is not going to be happy to have forked out money for a cad program for it not to be used! I sure as hell would have your balls on the chopping block for that!

If you want a great little 2D cad program, get DoubleCad where it does things the same if not similar to AutoCad, as a beta tester, I can say it is great. Anyway, this is the TurboCad forum, suck it in and give it a go and if all you are doing is simple 2D work, what is the problem? You also say you started cad on AC2009, well news for you, I am teaching AC 2010 now and things are slightly different to 2009. You can find that out yourself.

Autodesk will also try to tell you that 'we are the industry standard', well sorry, they are not. Solidworks down here in NZ has a big following and TurboCad is also being used by many down here, sorry, but I do not have figures to back that up, but Autodesk is taking a hit.

My cad experience? DesignCad since version 7, SolidWorks since 2001, DoubleCad since before it was released to the public, TurboCad from version 10, AutoCad since release 2.5. I think I know what I am talking about.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 02:15:08 AM by Steve The Kiwi »

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* August 01, 2010, 02:49:19 AM
#9
re: One of the things I hate most about TurboCAD, compared to AutoCAD, is the way that it does paperspace and viewports. I find having to create saved views in model space first (so that I can then use that to open up a veiwport in the correct orientation) to be a pain in the bum. When in AutoCAD, all you do is create a viewport, double click on it, and then you have full control of the model and its orientation.

You can do the same thing in TurboCAD.
Go to a Paperspace and use "Insert / Viewport".
Click and drag out a viewport window.
Choose "View_0" from the dialog.
Select the Viewport (instead of double-clicking).
choose the "Workspace / Modelspace (Floating)" menu item.
now you can work in Modelspace through the Viewport.
Click outside the Viewport or reselect the command to return to Paperspace.

You could give this command a hotkey assignment or drag out a copy of the command icon onto an accessible toolbar so you don't have to go through the Menu's.

If you do add commands and tweak your Workspace, don't forget to Save your custom Workspace; Tools / Customize — Options page — Workspace section.

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* August 01, 2010, 03:01:38 AM
#10
For instance when I draw a line in AutoCad all I have to do is click on a starting point move the mouse in the direction I want to go and type in the linght and thats it plus the cursers stays attatched to the last point so that for the next line I just have move the mouse in the direction I want and type in the lenght.

Have you tried "Polyline"? ...... and using the "Ortho Snap"


Cheers
Mike
 :)

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* August 01, 2010, 03:37:33 AM
#11
re: For instance, when I draw a line in AutoCAD, all I have to do is click on a starting point, move the mouse in the direction I want to go and type in the length and that's it; plus the cursor stays attached to the last point so that for the next line, I just have move the mouse in the direction I want and type in the length.

If you have the Pro version, you can use the "U" hotkey to snap back to the last point.

Establish the starting point of your Line (mouse click, SEKE or thru the Coord fields).
Tab and enter a Length and Angle.
Enter key
"U" key
Tab and enter a Length and Angle for the next Line segment.
Repeat 'til done.

This seems to be very similar to what you want to do, with or without a mouse.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 11:42:53 AM by John R »

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John R.

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* August 01, 2010, 08:20:44 AM
#12
The publishers offer DoubleCAD XT, which works similarly to AutoCAD.  If you find that ACAD does all you want, in the way you want to do it, then ACAD or DoubleCAD are the products you'd be most comfortable with.  If TC doesn't do what you want in the way you want to do it, it is a waste of your money for your purposes.  Just spend the $5500 and relax.  TC is TC and it works like TC.  It isn't trying to be AC Cheap any more, and there are probably better candidates for that role.

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* August 01, 2010, 02:19:55 PM
#13
I started using AutoCAD in 1985/86... back when you could run it right from the 5 1/4 floppy disks. I thought AC was the greatest thing since sliced bread up until about 5 years or so ago when I started using TC.

I agree... there are certain things that can be done in AC which are much faster and easier... such as stretching or trimming using the crossing-polygon. However, I find TC to be much faster in most other areas to use than AC... IMHO.

I will also agree with you... when I first stared using TC, I thought it was a POS too. It seemed like everything I did took many (maybe three) ;D  times longer to accomplish. But the more I hung in there and kept using it, the more I really liked it.

All I can add is this... maybe if you keep using it and find it's strengths, you will find it more likable and more productive as well. If not, go back to using AC... a no-brainer to me.

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* November 18, 2010, 09:45:14 AM
#14
Autodesk couldn't pay me to use AC.  I have used AC, Microstation, and TC.  For the price and its intuitive nature, you can't beat TC although I occasionally get frustrated with it.  If I was going to waste money on a high end CAD package, it would be Microstation hands down.  Sounds to me you should go back to AC; I'm sure the folks at Autodesk will thank you all the way to the bank.

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* November 18, 2010, 06:20:54 PM
#15
 From my past experience with any CAD software is that I know for a fact you didnt jump on ACAD and knew how to use it! I have used ACAD and at first look I was blowin away. But once you figure out the basics, you pretty much got it. TCAD is the same way, I didnt jump on here and know what I was doing. I figured out the basics then went from there. You cant compare ACAD to TCAD or vice versa because there not the same in any respect. There is some really nice tutorials out there and locally here in the forums that will get you up and running in no time flat.

 I know the frustration and it really does take away the hopes of learning the software but have some patience, grab a tut and learn it.

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* November 19, 2010, 06:30:11 AM
#16
Your problem is that you have already learned AutoCAD, which "slants" the way you think to their style (subconsciously).  Unlike you, I came to CAD from old-fashioned ON PAPER "CAD" (actually "non-CAD"), so I hadn't any idea what the "right way" ought to look.  I looked at and tried both AutoCAD LT and TurboCAD, and TCAD was FAR easier to learn and use. I have since had a close look at Solidworks, and I keep coming back to TCAD.

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* November 21, 2010, 09:22:22 AM
#17
As a retired computer geek who did a lot of switching between software packages and between CAD's, let me reinforce the statements made above.

The first CAD to learn is the easiest one. I started on Generic CAD and stayed with it as long as possible. Then came several others and now I'm working with TC Pro. I still have troubles, but this forum is a lifesaver. One lesson learned (just prior to retiring) is that you will also have to change packages until you are the boss. "Don't fight it!" it ain't worth the effort.

The other thing to remember is that learning speed decreases with age. You can still learn new tricks, but 'sit' and 'stay' are still your favorites.

There was also a comment about too many ways to do things. That is very true in TC and on more than one occasion a question has yielded more than one way to do an operation. Blessing or curse - take your pick. I am writing down the steps I take when something works well and use it regardless as to whether it is the best, fastest, cleanest, etc.

Ed


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* November 21, 2010, 09:35:35 AM
#18
You can still learn new tricks, but 'sit' and 'stay' are still your favorites.


Love it!

Henry H

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November 21, 2010, 11:19:02 AM
#19
I'm sorry but I canot beleiave how complicated things are in TurboCad!

I have a theory....

Easy to learn = harder to do.  

Take crawling and walking for example, crawling is easier to learn, and necessary, but once you learn walking, crawling, still has its place, but it's harder to do.

I got TurboFloorPlan, easy to learn, but it didn't take me long to realize that it doesn't stand up to turbocad,s (harder to learn) capabilities.  

Ponder learning progressions (with anything) and you'll see how often this is the case.  Look at Turbocad's wish list, it's full of ways to make the program harder to learn, but, in long run, easier to do.  

Just a theory.

Alan H.  
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 11:21:09 AM by Alan H. »

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* November 21, 2010, 01:49:18 PM
#20
Quote
I wish now that I had spent the extra $5500

Never to late!  Interest on loans are at a all time low, and Acad comes with spell checker :)

But different products are never identical, and Acad lacks some TC features.  In fact when I was using Microstation they had a great angle snap.  Acad's angle snap when modifing an object measures from handle point and not the objects rotation point, but with a few more key strokes the same can be accomplished.

Still today I use Versacad for 2D production work, but I love those TC 3D renders I've been viewing here over the years.

Started with TC8.2 and now up to 15 platinum.


 




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* November 21, 2010, 02:25:22 PM
#21
You know, Glenn posted in July, and was never heard from again ...

but the thread lives on  :D

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* November 21, 2010, 03:01:49 PM
#22
Sometimes people hide in a corner in the dark shadows and still read without replying. Frustration has a funny face and make people react differently.

 Personally, I get very persistent until I figure it out, frustrated to a point where I want to rip it off my comp, yes, but I found that with other CAD systems too.  LOL

 I hope he stays but it would be his choice. There is alot in TC to learn and nothing comes without a price.

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November 22, 2010, 02:22:48 PM
#23
I tried to learn AutoCad and found it an impregnable morass of hopelessly convoluted crap.

I seem to be able to pick up TC more easily.

I migrated to TC  from a Legacy 3-D wireframe  package that ran elegantly under the DOS 640 K threshold.

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* December 02, 2010, 03:49:32 AM
#24
I find Tcad much easier to use for general cad work. However I have been so frustrated with it crashing when I try to render detailed drawing (hidden line or colour). I now create all my drawings in Tcad and when I need to  render a large file I save it as a DWG drawing.
An example with one drawing is that I spent weeks trying to render it, (tried in V17 for weeks then v15 and V14 - some success in the earlier versions but hit and miss) gradually trying to remove detail to reduce the file size to help it render, crash after crash (oh, yes I have a quad core, dual proc pc) so frustrated i saved the original file as dwg and opened in Autocad 2000, with in minutes it was fully rendered. If only TCAD could fix this part of the program.

I bought versions 15 and v17 hoping that the rendering would improve. I will not buy v18 unless I was certain that the rendering issues were fixed and it was as fast as Autocad. I dispute the fact the TCad listen to issues and improves them, they have not fixed the rendering issues since V14, or with V17,17.1,7.2.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 03:51:59 AM by cmsrobert1 »

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December 02, 2010, 05:31:01 AM
#25
I find Tcad much easier to use for general cad work. However I have been so frustrated with it crashing when I try to render detailed drawing (hidden line or colour). I now create all my drawings in Tcad and when I need to  render a large file I save it as a DWG drawing.
An example with one drawing is that I spent weeks trying to render it, (tried in V17 for weeks then v15 and V14 - some success in the earlier versions but hit and miss) gradually trying to remove detail to reduce the file size to help it render, crash after crash (oh, yes I have a quad core, dual proc pc) so frustrated i saved the original file as dwg and opened in Autocad 2000, with in minutes it was fully rendered. If only TCAD could fix this part of the program.

I bought versions 15 and v17 hoping that the rendering would improve. I will not buy v18 unless I was certain that the rendering issues were fixed and it was as fast as Autocad. I dispute the fact the TCad listen to issues and improves them, they have not fixed the rendering issues since V14, or with V17,17.1,7.2.

I might be wrong, but I think that saving it to dwg format just changed the ACIS setting to something like draft, so when you open it in AC it seems to work faster than TC. I am not saying this isn't true, but I remember distinctly seeing this as the case when someone suggested saving the tcw file as a dwg and rendering that in TC. I noticed the ACIS setting change immediately. So maybe you just need to adjust your ACIS settings for the tcw file and render in in TC. Just a thought that may save some steps.


* December 02, 2010, 11:19:10 AM
#26
I have tried adjusting the ACIS setting in TCAD to custom setting, while this can work with some files it does not work with all of them, the larger the file or the more detailed the file (more detailed can mean simply more threaded holes in items) the higher the chance of it crashing or saying that it can not complete the rendering.

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* December 02, 2010, 12:11:33 PM
#27
I have tried adjusting the ACIS setting in TCAD to custom setting, while this can work with some files it does not work with all of them, the larger the file or the more detailed the file (more detailed can mean simply more threaded holes in items) the higher the chance of it crashing or saying that it can not complete the rendering.

Threaded bolts and holes are both memory intensive, have you considered using a facet edited wrap of a thread image for those surfaces? May solve the need and the dilemma. I have seen several posted images here where the procedure is quite illusory. Good luck.  -  Al

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December 03, 2010, 09:35:48 PM
#28

One of the things I hate most about TurboCad compared to AutoCad is the way that it dose paperspace and veiwports.
I must say that even although <$7,000 ArchiCAD is my main 3d architectural program, I prefer TC(14) paperspace for the printing of 90% of my construction documentation.
I export all final views generated from the 3d BIM model from ArchiCAD to DWG and open in TC to finish and print my permit plans.

I first used TC Version one or two in 1996 (the one where the bill of materials was pascal? driven from Group info) before i took my autocad courses in 1998.
AutoCAD never measured up to TurboCAD
But of course you say the opposite.

Though I guess it depends on what you are used to.

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* December 05, 2010, 10:58:17 PM
#29
cdsgraphics

I notice that you are using ArchiCAD.  I have been using Chief Architect for quite a while now also.  I was wondering if you have ever used CA, and if you have any impressions you could share comparing the two programs.

I use TC for Shop Drawings and the creation of 3D symbols and such.

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December 06, 2010, 09:10:21 AM
#30
cdsgraphics
 I was wondering if you have ever used CA, and if you have any impressions you could share comparing the two programs.

I use Chief Architect\Home Designer Pro 9 for some secondary 3d architectural visualization, but it is a very scaled down home design version
I would consider upgrading to the full CA, when the old  Win2K PC that ArchiCAD runs on fails me,
but then again since I also have ProgeCAD pro, so I may also go with their progeBILLD Architectural add-on for less money. and of course I will upgrade my TC again.

Some have informed me that Revit is better, others that ArchiCAD is better and others still that Chief Architect is better
I don't think that i can afford the first two...

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Craig
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December 06, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
#31
cdsgraphics
 I was wondering if you have ever used CA, and if you have any impressions you could share comparing the two programs.

I use Chief Architect\Home Designer Pro 9 for some secondary 3d architectural visualization, but it is a very scaled down home design version
I would consider upgrading to the full CA, when the old  Win2K PC that ArchiCAD runs on fails me,
but then again since I also have ProgeCAD pro, so I may also go with their progeBILLD Architectural add-on for less money. and of course I will upgrade my TC again.

Some have informed me that Revit is better, others that ArchiCAD is better and others still that Chief Architect is better
I don't think that i can afford the first two...

Do you know how Envisioneer stands up to these giants.

I took it for a test run and it was pretty intuitive for architectural modeling, creating blueprints and utilizing BIM technology.  BIM (building information model)

It was disappointing that I couldn't create custom models within the software and the limitations of importing them.  If I'm correct, it only imports 2D dwg files.

Still seems like if you want to do everything with only one software package, it's probably turbocad.  But I do believe turbocad could be more intuitive for architects.

Alan H.

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* December 06, 2010, 10:11:01 AM
#32

I use Chief Architect\Home Designer Pro 9 for some secondary 3d architectural visualization, but it is a very scaled down home design version

Yes, night and day difference between the Home Designer and the Premium edition.  CA and TC together make for a very powerfull combination.  That and good spreadsheet skills.

I follow Revit fairly closely.  It is a very interesting program, but cumbersome for many ordinary tasks.

Thanks for the reply.

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* December 06, 2010, 10:33:27 AM
#33

Do you know how Envisioneer stands up to these giants.

I only briefly checked out Envisioneer.  It sounds like a fundamentally sound approach to design.  I liked the material list feature of lumber load deliveries.  I am a little jaded about buying a program and then being stuck with what it actually does rather than what you thought would do.  Because of that I build my own spreadsheets, that way I can make it do whatever I want.

I have not seen anything to date that would convince me to move away from combining CA and TC.  It does not do it for you, but the option to have both precision and automation is quite compelling.

I am one of the beta tester on CA so I am able to have some input as to the direction of the program and that is a plus for me as well.  I am very pleased with TC V17 and the ablilty to flatten 3D views to 2D.  This feature alone makes TC even more powerful when used in combination with other systems.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 10:36:36 AM by Rod Cole »

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December 06, 2010, 11:12:41 AM
#34
I have not seen anything to date that would convince me to move away from combining CA and TC.

I had other people suggest chief architect for architectural work, maybe when my software budget grows, but it's nice here that you have success with chief architect and turbocad. I want to be able to model anything,  not just houses.  I assume chief architect is a architectural specific program.

Thanks

Alan H.

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* December 06, 2010, 02:37:38 PM
#35
Yes, architectural with full 3D capabilities and many automatic framing features as well.  It has a new physics based renderer also, but I am still trying to learn Octane Render.

It does not come that way oob, but you can set up cameras to capture the model and send to layout similar to Revit if you know how to do it.

But, like any program the automatic features have a tendency to be somewhat canned.  That is why I like TC for importing and editing those features.  You can also create detailed shop drawings in TC, and then the 3D geometry can be imported into CA as a symbol.

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TC V21 Pro Platinum  Win 7 Professional


December 06, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
#36
Do you know how Envisioneer stands up to these giants.
from the limited trial access to it that I enjoyed I would consider it on par w/ CA and agree with your assessment of it.

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Take Care
Craig
Using TurboCAD v18.2; Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz;<BR>Win 7 ProSp1; 6GB DDR3 1333MHz RAM; EVGA GeForce GTX 460 1GB
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December 06, 2010, 05:30:35 PM
#37
limited trial access to it

Thanks for the info
  
I told the folks at Envisioneer. "if I can do a full trial run, I won't even bother." They gave me a 15 day unrestricted trial, just not the Add-ons.

Alan H.
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For anyone who might not know.....

"Envisioneer" is basicly the professional version of "TurboFloorPlan".  But,  I couldn't figure out what the basic version of "Envisioneer" could do that "turbo floor plan" couldn't. ???  Go figure...

« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 09:27:12 PM by Alan H. »

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TC v12.5  platinum build 58.6 w/vista 32bit