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Speed up loading
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* July 10, 2019, 08:49:33 AM
I think TC being painfully slow to load is a given. I had TC install on my programs disk which is separate from my OS disk. Even though TC is loaded on a non OS disk, I notice during startup that it still has put a lot of it's files on my OS drive. I see my OS and program drives at 20 - 40% utilization during program start for a looong time.

Question, has anyone moved to SSD drives and did it reduce loading TC to something less than a coffee break?

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July 10, 2019, 12:32:33 PM
#1
I have been booting from SSDs for years.  Vastly faster.

A couple years ago I put an NVMe drive in the M.2 slot on my motherboard for my OS.  It sped up booting a lot, even compared to the SATA SSD I was using before that, but I never updated the BIOS to make use of the fastest speed (I was afraid of bricking my computer when I need it all the time).

How old is your motherboard?  Does it have an M.2 slot?  If so, then NVMe is the way to go (be careful, as there are SATA drives in the M.2 form factor that are not as fast).  Don't think about putting an M.2 adapter in your PCI slots as they will most likely not support booting.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* July 10, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
#2
I do have 3 M.2 PCI3x4 slots. I'll have to rethink my system and see if it's something I want to do. Right now I have a 2TB drive for the OS and stuff that won't install where I tell it, a 2TB data drive, a 2TB programs drive, and 2 X 2TB striped drives for video editing. I could loose the striped drives for an SSD, the SSD will be faster than the stripe anyway. 2TB SSDs are spendy, 1TB is not so bad. That's still 4 disk and I only have three M.2. I guess I could still have the striped set for editing.

Something to think about I guess, TC is not the only software I have that loads slow.

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July 10, 2019, 08:53:07 PM
#3
I have a 1TB SSD and all my programs and operating system run from it. Computer startup is lightening fast. TurboCAD 2019 Platinum takes about 47 seconds to open from double click of the desktop icon to appearance of the New TurboCAD Drawing window. To me this seems excessively long compared to previous versions. TC 2018 took 27 seconds. TC2016 took 35 seconds. Those are the only versions I have installed. Don't have times from before the SSD but I feel that it wasn't any slower and I still feel TC2019 is excessive. I also feel that TC2019 doesn't use computer resources very well. I have found a few models recently that seem to tax the program and I never experienced these issues with previous versions and I had equally complex models/drawings then. IMHO TC2019 is a bit of a dog. Not bad enough to quit using, but not good enough to recommend.

These are my computer specs. Nothing too stellar, even though it cost me $4K.

Don's New Workstation (2017)

CPU:
Intel Core i7 6800K
4 x 4.2 GHz Overclock
12 x threads with Intel HyperThreading
15MB Smart Cache

MEMORY:
16GB Quad Channel 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM

VIDEO:
Quadro K1200 4GB (4XDVI)

STORAGE:   
1TB WD Blue SSD
2X 2TB WD Black Performance HDD 64MB Cache

OPTICAL DRIVE:
DVD Burner : 24x Super-Multi

MOTHERBOARD / CONNECTIVITY:
MSI X99A RAIDER
Triple Display Support
USB 3.0 (Front & Back), USB 2.0 (Back), USB 3.1 Gen2
7.1 Audio w/ Front Headset/Mic ports, S/PDIF
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet

CASE:
Silent Mid-Tower Case w/ 850W Gold Power Supply
Modern Styling, Quiet Operation, Future Upgradeable
80+ Gold Certified PSU

ADDITIONAL:
I/O Expansion PCI-E USB 3.0 x 4 (3xExt/1xint) : UGT-PC341 : Vantec
Hot Swap Bay : SATA;5.25" Bay : EZ Swap Pro+ : MRK-311S6 : Vantec

EXTERIOR BACKUP:
HD : Desktop : 4TB : SATA : WD40EFRX Red : WD153522
Enclosure : 3.5" : SATA : USB 3.0 : Nexstar 6G (Silver) : NST-366S3-SV : Vantec
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 09:30:07 PM by Don Cheke »

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* July 11, 2019, 02:43:22 PM
#4
After the most recent windows 10 update opening files is fast as ever. Win 10 1903.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5 & LightWorks rendering mostly.


* July 11, 2019, 07:54:24 PM
#5
I guess my load times aren't terrible then. I just timed my 2019 Platinum with RedSDK and it took 40 seconds to get to the project start screen.

Without full details,
ASRock Taichi X399
Threadripper 1920X
NV GTX 1070
Dual Z27S 10bit panels
64GB DDR4 2666 ECC quad channel

Don - I have been looking at newer Quadro cards but so far have not been able to find an advantage.
My software is,
TC 2019
CorelDraw Suite
Corel Painter
Corel VideoStudio
Corel Paint Shop Pro
Alien Skin Exposure X4

Absolutely none of them support 10 bit per channel ( 30bit ) output so my displays are pretty much operating as 8 bit panels. Do you find other advantages to the WS class graphics cards? Only some of my software will even use the GPU, which the 1070 supports pretty well.

Thanks

Joel
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:56:11 PM by Joel »

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July 11, 2019, 08:16:05 PM
#6
I guess my load times aren't terrible then. I just timed my 2019 Platinum with RedSDK and it took 40 seconds to get to the project start screen.

Without full details,
ASRock Taichi X399
Threadripper 1920X
NV GTX 1070
Dual Z27S 10bit panels
64GB DDR4 2666 ECC quad channel

Don - I have been looking at newer Quadro cards but so far have not been able to find an advantage.
My software is,
TC 2019
CorelDraw Suite
Corel Painter
Corel VideoStudio
Corel Paint Shop Pro
Alien Skin Exposure X4

Absolutely none of them support 10 bit per channel ( 30bit ) output so my displays are pretty much operating as 8 bit panels. Do you find other advantages to the WS class graphics cards? Only some of my software will even use the GPU, which the 1070 supports pretty well.

Thanks

Joel


Hi Joel,

I had only purchased the Quadro card because SolidWorks needed it to run RealView Graphics. I wanted to see what I was missing and found it was nothing I needed or even used afterwards. I never found a need for a fancy look as seen without it engaged and with it engaged in the attached pictures. Now that I am not running SW I would prefer to have a gaming card (or other standard card) as I did prior to my new 2017 computer. Would have saved some money. Don't think I ever saw a benefit with the card using TurboCAD. Now, I'm no computer whiz, so my observations may not be worth squat.

The last attached shot is with all the other fancy visuals on, which look nice enough, but it is still not a render per se, as one would do with PhotoView or Visualize in SW or LightWorks in TC.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 08:05:04 AM by Don Cheke »

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* July 12, 2019, 06:57:55 AM
#7
Hi Don,

For me, the draw to a Quadro would be for the photo and graphics work at 10 bits per channel. But that is dependent on the software outputting 10bpc. Adobe photo shop does that , and you have to have a Quadro or FirePro to support 10bpc, both NV and AMD don't support this in their consumer cards. Consumer cards typically only support 10bpc for full screen games and that still depends on the game supporting it.

Seems for now, or at least until some of the software I use step up to being serious tools, my 1070 is good enough. I don't game much, so a faster card is not much use.

Your observations are in line with what I would expect ( I do know about this stuff ).

Thanks
Joel

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* July 12, 2019, 07:24:19 AM
#8
 I have turbo cad pro platinum 2019 running a 2019 Dell XPS with a I7 8750, 32 gb ram, 1 tb SSD and an a Nvidia 1050 TI. It takes from 33 to 40 seconds to load. It’s a huge improvement over my desktop and its hard drive.
Kibo

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* July 12, 2019, 09:24:12 AM
#9
It seems what is helping me is my multiple HDDs. When loading TC I can see heavy disk activity off my system drive as well as my programs drive in parallel.

Would be interesting to see how much faster it would be with SSDs. I have all 2TB drives in my system, but I'm not even near using 1TB per drive yet ( about 200GB right now ), worked out that with having a system, data, and program drives, the load is pretty well distributed. Video has been on two striped drives for speed, but it should be much faster on 1 PCIe SSD. Because I have a large NAS setup, I could change that work flow to only have a current project ( far and few ) on the data SSD, or just use a PCIe slot card for that.

Maybe I will play with that at some point.

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* July 15, 2019, 08:43:45 AM
#10
I talked with our SSD expert at work and he no longer seemed terrified at the notion of using SSDs as system drives ( several years ago when I asked about this he turned pale ). So I went ahead and ordered 3 SSDs to replace my boot, data, and programs drives. I'm not too concerned with failures, I back up twice a week. Maybe get into the habit of backing up when I do something major. I stayed away from QLC nand, the ones I got are TLC, I would have prefered MLC, but they got pretty pricey.

I'll see how it works out

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July 15, 2019, 10:53:05 AM
#11
So I went ahead and ordered 3 SSDs to replace my boot, data, and programs drives. I'm not too concerned with failures, I back up twice a week. Maybe get into the habit of backing up when I do something major.

You'd do well to configure your data drive as RAID 1; it will automatically back up data as you save it.  Negligible impact on speed with a spinner hard drive; you won't notice it with an SSD.

Much faster response with an NVMe drive in the M.2 slot; there are motherboards with as many as 3 of them (although you will probably be using your current system and installing multiple SATA drives).

If your system and budget affords 4 SSDs as your boot drive, you can set up RAID 10, which provides the speed benefits of RAID 0 along with the automatic backup of RAID 1.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* July 15, 2019, 11:41:57 AM
#12
My MB does have 3 M.2 PCIex4 connectors I will be using. Not enough to mirror and do what I want. I think I'm happy with backup being to my NAS during times I'm not using the system. I don't tend to do things daily that would be impacted. The change I could do is go to nightly backups instead of twice a week if my usage model changes. The other thought is to leave a spinning data drive in to back up works in progress locally.

If I really like the way things work, I would think Raid 1 boot, you are correct, write will barely notice, should get the benefit of striped reads. The the rest would have to be on an PCIe plugin card with multiple module support. Several possibilities

Right now, I'll be interested in seeing if my piggy programs load noticeably faster. One SSD for each boot, data, programs.

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* July 16, 2019, 06:59:52 PM
#13
So, I installed 3 NVMe SSDs today and got everything switched over. I notice most things are a lot faster, loading TC, not so much. I went from 40 seconds to 30, not what I call impressive and not consistent with other programs I have which did load much faster.

I looked into thins and what I found is that TC spends a very long time online before it finishes loading. I disabled my internet connection and restarted TC and could still see it pinging the internet for a very long time before it got back to loading.

I bet if there were a way to turn that off, it would load much faster.

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* July 16, 2019, 08:08:15 PM
#14
Sounds like your version of tc is licecensed to run via the net only. Is that so?

Never heard of tc taking so long and pinging the net at the same time.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5 & LightWorks rendering mostly.


July 16, 2019, 11:55:09 PM
#15
Sounds like your version of tc is licecensed to run via the net only. Is that so?

Never heard of tc taking so long and pinging the net at the same time.

V 2019 takes 52 seconds to load on my older system (NVMe, but an older BIOS that does not use it to its best advantage).  V2018 took ~35 seconds.  V2015 took around 12 seconds.

I really think some things should be optimized.


Jeff

Logged
TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* July 17, 2019, 05:50:53 AM
#16
Mine is a standalone license, not subscription. Seems like from other experiences with 2019, 30 seconds is not out of line.

Everything else is greatly improved, windows loading, first login, most other programs....

I can can watch TC start to load, then disk activity stops and network activity starts, pinging the net for quite a while. Then when network activity stops, TC finishes loading. I would say, if there wasn't the network delay, It would be loaded in about 20 seconds.

My system is a Taichi X399 with a Threadripper 1920X

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July 17, 2019, 10:43:35 AM
#17
I read elsewhere that a NVMe boot drive in a new system had Windows Boot taking a couple seconds and TurboCAD less than 5.  That would be really nice.

I saw a video about a RAID 0 setup with (IIRC) 27 SATA SSDs (this was several years ago).  It booted Windows in between 1 & 2 seconds (huge cost, of course).  having difficulty finding it on YouTube, though.


Jeff

Logged
TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* July 17, 2019, 01:54:33 PM
#18
I wonder if that was with quick boot enabled.

I just timed mine, 10 seconds from start of boot to login screen, 5 seconds from login to desktop usable.

Boot and login were painfully slow before the NVMe SSDs. Now the thought of rebooting is not so unpleasant ( I go between Linux and Windows ). Linux is still a spinner.

So even though TC wasn't vastly improved, most everything else was. So I'm happy with the change.

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* July 17, 2019, 02:01:50 PM
#19
I presume that your on win 1903 and my tc now loads much quicker since the update.  Whereas previously it was slower but I never checked the net activity while loading.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2019 PP, Animation Lab V5 & LightWorks rendering mostly.


* July 17, 2019, 02:12:33 PM
#20
I wonder what they changed. I imagine I'll see the update soon. Updates are not automatic on my system.

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