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The arbitrary change of WorkPlanes (by old elements)
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* January 09, 2019, 03:42:54 PM
Working with TurboCAD is really fun.
After a long time, I decided to do one big project using TurboCAD and I regret it now. I think Turbocad knows very well, but the arbitrary change of working planes - that's too much coffee on me. I do not know how to describe it exactly.

Green - line -2d object – problem
Red rectangle - just the working plane of the green element

1.   Set the WorkPlane by Entity (green line)
2.   Place the green line on WorkPlane
3.   Nothing changes - 2d element does not fit on its WorkPlane.

If these lines, etc.  are few, then it can be repaired by Node Edit. Editing the node moves the node to the correct WorkPlane.
Problem is that this arbitrarychange can also affect architectural features. Their reference placements and the data contained therein. You draw a new wall and TC change the old walls themselves, creating connections with nonexistent walls (which are not visible, can not be selected and modified). It's really fun :-)
And it can not be corrected by deleting (it is not visible, so can not be selected, modified) and unfortunately even by saving or copying to a new file.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 03:45:06 PM by mpavelek »

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* January 09, 2019, 05:51:54 PM
#1
see attached > selected line
how was this created?
try using the flatten command.
I'm working in 2018 64 bit

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 and HP all in one desktop with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3


* January 10, 2019, 01:28:11 AM
#2
This is what TurboCAD programmers have to say, not me. :-)
I just drew a simple line. 2D object. (This "normal" 2d line was at least 200 hours)

Then something happened.
The WorkPlanes have arbitrarily changed. Those existing, named. At the same time, some 2d elements became 3d. Walls located on one floor connect with walls located on other floors. etc.


Flatten command

a) I do not have TC2018. So neither this command. And I can not buy a new version of TC more. Why? Because bugs are not corrected. Or very slowly
b) If you use the Flatten command. Is everything okay? It is not. The 2D line has a Z-dimension (in selection).  Just after editing the nodes is Z-dimension = 0.
c) The file is just a copy of a large file. For a quick understanding of the problem. Line is just a profile for creating a 3D object. What about walls, etc? Here the Flatten command will have no effect

This did not happen for the first time. Historically, I have met it six times or more (from TC8).

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* January 12, 2019, 02:29:27 AM
#3
I do not have words ... it's just fun :-) :-)

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* January 12, 2019, 04:49:58 AM
#4
I know how it can be done intentionally.
Make some named workplanes with a different z-coordinate. Draw any 2d object. Switch to node edit. Edit some node. During this change the named workplane. Complete editing the node. Result: The node of the 2d object is located in a different workplane.

This, however, does not explain why the named workplaces have changed arbitrarily.
But now I think where can be the source of the problem.. Edit multiple nodes simultaneously (when selecting multiple elements located in different workplanes).

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* January 12, 2019, 11:25:51 AM
#5
I know how it can be done intentionally.
Make some named workplanes with a different z-coordinate. Draw any 2d object. Switch to node edit. Edit some node. During this change the named workplane. Complete editing the node. Result: The node of the 2d object is located in a different workplane.

This, however, does not explain why the named workplaces have changed arbitrarily.
But now I think where can be the source of the problem.. Edit multiple nodes simultaneously (when selecting multiple elements located in different workplanes).

why would you do that?
see attached video. Wp is changing as i select 2d objects with the edit tool. If I edit and move any nodes
(not seen in video) on a current WP they stay on that WP.
I'm working in 2d/3d depending 'selector mode". I always have warnings enabled.
TC does not allow me to move a selected node with the edit tool and change WP. The nodes get de-selected.
Anyways, you need to post a drawing here or send the drawing to IMSI. Showing your system settings would also help to find what's happening for you.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:27:27 AM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 and HP all in one desktop with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3


* January 12, 2019, 04:56:29 PM
#6
 We probably do not understand. My English is bad.

1. TC arbitrarily changed 3 named Worksplanes (their z-location). Arbitrarily. See Attachment. Why? I do not know. That's what I'm trying to find out.

2. Once I found that named worklpanes is changed, I repaired it and continued to work. I have not noticed problems, so why not work further, right?

3. About two days later, I began to work in another area of drawing and discovered the first problems. So I started to solve them. But it did not work. So the problem was detected.

4. If only any named Workplanes were changed without further consequences, I would still work. But it had the consequences.

5. What I send is a demonstration of what happened in the arbitrary change of named Workplanes. I do not draw it that way.

6. I started looking for the source and cause of this problem.

7. Personally, I thought that 2d objects are fixed to the work plane as a whole. So - certainly should be. Until yesterday I thought to create a 2D element, part of which is outside the plane is not possible. But as I discovered - it is possible.

8. I managed to find out how it can damage the placement of the drawing intentionally.

9. Damage is localized in one part of the drawing. Therefore, I believe that this arbitrary change of the named Workplanes occurred at the moment when I had selected a group of objects. And if I found that deliberate damage could be done when editing nodes, then I think that this change was happening right now.

Ask me why I'm doing something like this. This question is not really right.
I'm asking: Why did the TC do it?
Now I try to find unusual ways to why and how it happened.

If you can change the working plane of a part of the element that must be fixed to the workplane, then it is a bug in the program. And really big bug.

As I've already written. Simple objects can be repaired.
But what about architectural objects? A wall is an element that works as a 2d object. If any invisible internal reference for making links between the walls or a part of it is changed, so that it is placed on a different workplane, then it is wrong. They are joined by walls located on other floors. And you do not know which. Because when selecting … join is not highlighted.

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* January 12, 2019, 04:59:25 PM
#7
With attachment - mp4 video, 14.7MB can not be sent. Resp. it is sent but is not displayed on the forum

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* January 13, 2019, 07:54:34 AM
#8
video

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* January 13, 2019, 01:03:56 PM
#9
that can't be a 2d object that you're working with  ???
What is it and how did you create it.

You don't have the delta values showing.
When you are in edit mode with the edit tool and you select a node what delta values are available in the inspector bar.

Did you try working in (2d/3d depending on selected object and space mode)
 located in selector properties > general tab
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 01:22:07 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2019-2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using LightWorks, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100 and HP all in one desktop with Nvidia Geforce 210, open gl 3.3


* January 13, 2019, 02:37:51 PM
#10
It's just as incredible to me as it is for you. You can trust me.
Complete video. Creating a simple rectangle, switching 2d / 3d and its subsequent damage.

I'll send a message to a forum on the forum but .... waits and ....nothing ... start new topic.
So I'm sending an external download link http://www.uschovna.cz/zasilka/IXW88SMKU5I7YEMT-N7M

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* January 13, 2019, 05:11:06 PM
#11
In "Funny 2d polyline.tcw," I cannot change the Workplane while editing the Polyline. But there's no doubt that one node does lie in a different plane than the other nodes. It can be restored by setting "Size Z" to zero.

Perhaps there's a BUG in mpavelek's version of the program.

Henry H

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* January 13, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
#12
Henry, if you can not do the same thing as me in the video ... then it's a general bug in Czech language version TC.
I will do the same thing not only in current but also in all older TC version. Even on a clean installation of TC carried sideways on another computer.

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* January 14, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
#13
Henry, if you can not do the same thing as me in the video ... then it's a general bug in Czech language version TC.
I will do the same thing not only in current but also in all older TC version. Even on a clean installation of TC carried sideways on another computer.

Yes, I can now replicate the problem in my v2018, 64-bit Pro version. But only by using the Design Director to switch between previously-created Workplanes. Here's how I did it...

In a new drawing, using the default Plan view and World WP, I opened the Named Workplane dialog, clicked the "New Workplane" icon, named it "Plan," clicked the Close button. Switched to Front view and Workplane by View. Opened the Named WP dialog again and naned this one "Front." Went back to Plan view and World WP and created a closed 2D Polyline. Switched to SE Isometric view. Opened the Design Director and exposed the WorkPlane panel, in which "Plan" was already checked.

Selected the Polyline with the Edit tool, left-clicked on a vertex and released the mouse button. Moved the cursor into the Design Director and activated the "Front" WP. Moved the cursor (with the vertex still attached) at random and then left-clicked again to drop the vertex. Switched to Front View and verified that the vertex has indeed been moved out of the plane of the remaining vertices.

Henry H

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* February 03, 2019, 10:26:19 PM
#14
I have no words.TurboCAD has a huge problem keeping the consistency of work planes and objects on them.
Now, for example: Dimensions - Part is located in 3d. Do not ask me how I did here. I do not know. Now I've discovered it

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* March 18, 2019, 10:43:14 AM
#15
Working with TurboCAD is really fun.
Thanks!

I have no words.TurboCAD has a huge problem keeping the consistency of work planes and objects on them.
Most 2D draggers (2D selector, line tool etc.) do not allow work plane changes in model space.  Design Director ignores this prohibition, it leads to problems. This is old bug. Fixed in TurboCAD 2019.

I don't think this is a serious problem. I find it hard to imagine why I need to change the workplane when creating for ex. the polyline.
However, if necessary, you can rely on the state of the 'Workplane' toolbar buttons. See picture.

Vlad

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