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Is This A bug?
Read 562 times
* September 17, 2018, 08:38:37 AM
Several times no I have had difficulty in selecting objectsI spent over an hour trying to delete a construction line, The one which goes off at an odd angle, not the one parallel to the 40Deg blue line. the option edit/clear/construction was greyed out. I checked the $construction layer was active & visible and the line I wanted to delete was on that layer and not somewhere else, but it would not delete.  I gave up and went to do something else.

I modified the 0 layer which will be the rotating base by cutting a slot into it, filleting the ends, and marked two points for holes. in doing this I drew a temporary line down the slot, drew a circle, and used the intersections for the point markers. I then went to delete the temporary construction lines. The line down the middle was no problem, but the circle would not delete. I find it has been drawn on the layer called angular which is locked.

In writing this I now find that the menu option for deleting single construction lines has returned!!! What is going on there? The command works without the $construction layer being active.

And how did an object get placed on another layer which was not active and was also locked?

TC 21 Pro.

So, whilst I can now do what I want, does anyone have any idea of what has happened? Is it something I have done without realising.

Marcel

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* September 17, 2018, 09:17:42 AM
#1
As an addendum to this.
I am trying to make a mirror image of the slot on the other side of the central hole. I cannot select the slot, I have tried moving the workplane from the face to the bottom of the slot and nothing will allow me to select anything.
I have just tried to draw a temporary line parallel to the inside face of the hole and it will not select the line. I can pick up on other lines, construction lines etc but nothing on this object. the layer is selected & active. The slot is supposed to be perpendicular to the 60deg line. I am unable to create a construction line perpendicular to the 60deg line, I can create a normal 2d line, but it will not snap to the red circle. (This is an indicator for tool clearance)

Driving me nuts, Going to have tea!!

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* September 17, 2018, 10:11:41 AM
#2
As an addendum to this.
I am trying to make a mirror image of the slot on the other side of the central hole. I cannot select the slot, I have tried moving the workplane from the face to the bottom of the slot and nothing will allow me to select anything.
I have just tried to draw a temporary line parallel to the inside face of the hole and it will not select the line. I can pick up on other lines, construction lines etc but nothing on this object. the layer is selected & active. The slot is supposed to be perpendicular to the 60deg line. I am unable to create a construction line perpendicular to the 60deg line, I can create a normal 2d line, but it will not snap to the red circle. (This is an indicator for tool clearance)

Driving me nuts, Going to have tea!!

The slot is not an object and therefore it cannot be copied. You can, however, make a mirror copy of the object that contains the slot and then make a 3D-Intersect of the original and the copy.  (The slot is not perpendicular to the 60-degree line, BTW; its long dimension is at a 130° angle from the +X axis.)

Henry H

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* September 17, 2018, 11:41:05 AM
#3
Henry,
Thank you.
I know the slot is not perpendicular to the 60Deg line. I have just spent over an hour trying to get a perpendicular line or construction line to snap to the red clearance circle. It has been driving me nuts.
Currently trying to fill in the slot.

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* September 17, 2018, 12:07:11 PM
#4
re: …Currently trying to fill in the slot.…

Instead of filling it in, go to your PartTree. Expand the list and select the "Box" property. Right-click and choose "Delete". The slot should be gone. You'll also have to delete the two Fillets that are left behind.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled, except in 2018
Windows 10, 64-bit


* September 17, 2018, 12:19:22 PM
#5
Henry,
Thank you.
I know the slot is not perpendicular to the 60Deg line. I have just spent over an hour trying to get a perpendicular line or construction line to snap to the red clearance circle. It has been driving me nuts.
Currently trying to fill in the slot.

or > see attached video.
I used the QuickPull tool 3 times > classified as "Imprint in the part tree.
Video reverses the process.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* September 17, 2018, 01:59:27 PM
#6
Dean,

WOW!! you made that look simple.
I am still trying to get my head round the selection info. I don't know what I did wrong 1st time round, but the part tree was showing some really outlandish data, the slots were showing as 70mm long with a 70mm circumference when they were only 25, well one of them was!
I started again from the blank part, and drew in both slots individually and it all seemed to work this time, that is apart from a parallel line starting nowhere near the cursor.

The software (TC) seems to have a nasty habit of just changing layers when I am not looking.

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September 17, 2018, 03:01:32 PM
#7
The software (TC) seems to have a nasty habit of just changing layers when I am not looking.

TC is actually trying to be helpful.  It remembers the last Layer on which you created a particular type of object and automatically returns to that layer when you create another object.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* September 17, 2018, 04:04:46 PM
#8
The slot can be moved and aligned all-of-a-piece using facet editor, red highlight all of the blue checks that denote the slot's connected faces and manipulate them with the selector bars, or eliminated by highlighting only the slot's bottom face and pulling it up by the reference point's z bar beyond the face it's set into.  It results in a face edit item in the part tree. 

Are you trying to snap to your red circle's centre?  TC has always followed AutoCAD convention in snapping to the centre from hovering over the circle's circumference, hovering over its notional centre won't find a snap point, because there's no graphic marker for it.  People have differing views about that, but it's because if your viewpoint is zoomed within the circle, no marker means you can't see any indication of its centre.

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* September 18, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
#9
Murray,

I was trying to snap to the red circles tangent. It is just there as an indicator to allow for spanner clearance on the nut.
When you say facet editor, do you mean the facet toolbar? I can't find any reference to a facet editor. Also how do i 'red highlight'. I have seen pink and green only.

Thank you

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* September 18, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
#10
There is a tangent running snap, and line tools that draw from tangents or to tangents, or you can draw a tangential line as the side of a rectangle with one side equal to the circle's radius with the corner that's coincident with the circle's centre as the centre of rotation, as the picture shows.  Facet editor is a tool that's part of the modify suite.  Like Quick Pull, it's what's called a "direct edit" tool, that operates directly on the faces and features of the solids being modified instead of modifying profiles or paths, or using Booleans operands.   When you select a solid with facet editor, the faces are marked with a square blue indicator, like edges are with blend and chamfer.  Like blend and chamfer, the blue indicator to select the feature you want to work with turns red when you click on it or on the feature it marks. 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 02:01:31 PM by murray dickinson »

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* September 18, 2018, 03:36:06 PM
#11
Murray,

I was trying to snap to the red circles tangent. It is just there as an indicator to allow for spanner clearance on the nut.
When you say facet editor, do you mean the facet toolbar? I can't find any reference to a facet editor. Also how do i 'red highlight'. I have seen pink and green only.

Thank you

Facet Edit in the Help mentions Facet Editor.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled, except in 2018
Windows 10, 64-bit


* September 18, 2018, 04:05:45 PM
#12
Murray,

Thank you,
I found them earlier in Boolean Facet. However I still have this problem of not being able to snap. The snap to tangent would not work at all. I tried moving workplanes, & unlocking layers, I seem to have a problem with working on one layer and trying to snap to an object on another. It is a recurring problem for me, I was trying to get a construction line a set distance above the bottom of the base. I set the workplane to the base but could only set constructions on that plane. I set a vertical workplane, and then could not snap to anything on the bottom of the base to get a reference. I ended up doing it with a 2D circle on the vertical workplane and then drawing a horizontal line across the to as a tangent. Seemed a bit messy.
I am sure I will get the hang of it eventually, but the snaps do cause problems. I have them turned off and only use local snaps either from the menu or keyboard.

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* September 18, 2018, 08:22:46 PM
#13
Tangent is the most conditional snap, that's why there are the variations, you don't keep banging your head against a wall with the one that doesn't work the way you think it ought to, try the others to find the one that works.

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* September 19, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
#14
Murray,

This is indicative of the problem.
I need to measure the projection of the pin from the support block. I need equal projections at each end, just for the sake of neatness, and I then need to cut grooves in the pin for retaining clips.
I have a workplane set on the face of the support and both the support and pin layers are unlocked.
Orthogonal & Quadrant points give me the clearance, as does vertex.
Intersection will not snap. I am assuming because of the clearance.
Grid is clearly not appropriate, and I am not sure about nearest on graphic or  facet will give a correct measurement but whilst they show a dimension it disappears????
Parallel likewise returns an odd dimension, looks like clearance but too big.
Likewise if I move the workplane to the axis of the pin I cant find anything that will snap to both the end of the pin and the face of the support.
This is the problem I am having all the time, effectively the same as before when trying to snap a tangent to the clearance ring.
So where am I going wrong?

There is of course a way round this one; by dimensioning the gap between the supports & the thickness of the supports, adding then, and then transposing?? that dimension to the pin, cutting the groves, and adding the extra land equally at each end. Does seem a roundabout way of doing it though.

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* September 19, 2018, 12:10:58 PM
#15
As an addendum to this,
I have got the dimensions, However they are back to front and mirrored and one is upside down.
After searching it was suggested to realign the workplane place them onto that workplane, that made no difference.
I deleted the dimension and tried again on the new workplane, no different, I have moved the workplanes from the front of the object to the back still no differently I think (i may be wrong) that this has something to do with the coordinate system. Comparing my Icon to one on a new drawing they are different.
I have world CS checked in the preferences.
How do I reset mine? the manual is a bit short on details here.

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* September 19, 2018, 01:18:21 PM
#16
As an addendum to this,
I have got the dimensions, However they are back to front and mirrored and one is upside down.
After searching it was suggested to realign the workplane place them onto that workplane, that made no difference.
I deleted the dimension and tried again on the new workplane, no different, I have moved the workplanes from the front of the object to the back still no differently I think (i may be wrong) that this has something to do with the coordinate system. Comparing my Icon to one on a new drawing they are different.
I have world CS checked in the preferences.
How do I reset mine? the manual is a bit short on details here.

Options>Preferences allows you to "Show world CS," which simply means that a little symbol denoting the World X, Y, and Z axes will be displayed on your screen. It does not mean that your current Workplane will be the World WP. To make that your current WP, press Ctrl+Alt+W on your keyboard.

Henry H

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* September 19, 2018, 03:14:43 PM
#17
Your struggles show why it's better practice to create viewports and dimension in paper space.  If the view's right in paper space, the dimension is too.  That leaves model space uncluttered by dimensions and the viewport doesn't give you the WP options that are confusing you.  If you'd rather try to do it in model space regardless, it's trivial to have the WP toolbar convenient, docked, floating or in the right-click pop-ups.  Right-click in white space on the program header and the toolbar and palette callups appear.  I probably use WP by entity, WP x 3 points, and World WP most often, and I use Named WP rather than Named View because going to plan by WP zooms to extents while Named View is fixed field of view.  You've also got the "show WP" check in that toolbar, that's not the tri-axis that Henry's referring to, it's a red dotted-line rectangle on the current WP, I find that useful for orientation too.  I can't remember ever having to reset a WP, so I don't know how. 
Learn to use snaps competently.  Inexperience can make them seem obstructive or arbitrary, they're not.  Using them is effectively like having access to temporary construction lines and projections without having to draw or edit them.  IMO they make  construction line practice redundant.   

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* September 19, 2018, 04:28:04 PM
#18
Hi Henry,
I was trying to understand the option show world, and show user. Mine is set to world. I tryed turning on user and the indicator on the page disappeared. Ctrl Alt W is what I was looking for though, It has reset my coordinated Icon. These commands are buried somewhere, and there is little reference to then in the manual. Thanks, All I have to do now is remember.

Marcel

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* September 19, 2018, 04:32:21 PM
#19
Murray, Thank you.
In (on?) the training DVD's I have the references to paper space are for producing printed output. I haven't really looked at viewports.
Unfortunately I have found nothing on 'best practices'.
So far all I have needed dimensions for is to check various aspects of the drawing, so not a desperate problem, as in the current case I needed to know the projection at either end of the pivot and make that equal, whilst at the same time allowing enough of a projection to allow for the circlip groove.
Likewise I needed a reference point in the vertical plane (Z) to get the point of coincidence to occur on the center line of the grindstone. bearing in mind it will describe an arc on two planes. It is getting that down on paper in TC which is the challenge. I have the flat geometry already set out, I will be arranging the vertical aspect which will be fun. In effect I have to describe a arc which is a tangent to the inside of a cone.
I have spent the evening manipulating the coordinates and workplanes to examine the effect. I must have changed the workplane origin instead of moving the object. I shifted the collet holder and must have shifted the workplane and it's objects together. From what I have read I think I may have drawn a 2D object whilst in 3D, and that really fouled things up. Thanks to Henry I have reset the coordinates, so simple when you know how.
Don Cheke was describing templates with viewports and paper space set up. I will go back and look at that again, Now I know what they can be used for.
As for snaps, I have the running snaps turned off, and GEO. I mostly use the SEKEs or local menu. They seem only to want to work with an object on the current workplane, however as I messed up the coordinate system my workplanes are away miles from the object. This may explain some of the problems I am having.
I am hoping that I can sort it out now it makes a bit more sense.

Marcel

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* September 19, 2018, 05:06:46 PM
#20
Hi Henry,
I was trying to understand the option show world, and show user. Mine is set to world. I tryed turning on user and the indicator on the page disappeared. Ctrl Alt W is what I was looking for though, It has reset my coordinated Icon. These commands are buried somewhere, and there is little reference to then in the manual. Thanks, All I have to do now is remember.

Marcel

The little figure showing the "user"coordinate axes is located at the origin of the current WP. If that origin is not in the region shown by the current view, it will not be visible.

Henry H

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* September 20, 2018, 07:46:58 AM
#21
Henry,
Since you pointed me in the right direction I have spent all afternoon playing around with the UCS and workplanes.
I found another post of yours relating to dimensions being back to front and the problem with selecting workplane by fascet having unpredictable results, it was suggested workplane by 3 points was more reliable, but a bit fiddly.
I now have UCS the right way up, and the workplane on the face, rather than standing off away from the face. Low-and Behold..... Dimensions the right way up and relating to the object.
It is a bit of a shame that this information is a bit hard to come by. Tutorials on workplanes and coordinate systems would be a great help here. There seems to be plenty of posts along similar lines, I am not alone!!!  It is just a case of asking the right question.
Now to work out the relationship between separate objects, or rather objects on different layers.

Thanks again.
Marcel

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* September 20, 2018, 09:21:28 AM
#22
Henry,
Since you pointed me in the right direction I have spent all afternoon playing around with the UCS and workplanes.
I found another post of yours relating to dimensions being back to front and the problem with selecting workplane by fascet having unpredictable results, it was suggested workplane by 3 points was more reliable, but a bit fiddly.
I now have UCS the right way up, and the workplane on the face, rather than standing off away from the face. Low-and Behold..... Dimensions the right way up and relating to the object.
It is a bit of a shame that this information is a bit hard to come by. Tutorials on workplanes and coordinate systems would be a great help here. There seems to be plenty of posts along similar lines, I am not alone!!!  It is just a case of asking the right question.
Now to work out the relationship between separate objects, or rather objects on different layers.

Thanks again.
Marcel

You're welcome, Marcel.

Don Cheke has written a tutorial on Workplanes. See

http://www.textualcreations.ca/Textual%20Creations%20Shopping%20Page.html#V21_Workplanes_Tutorial


Henry H

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