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Co-ordinates & Locations - Am I Missing a Point Somewhere?
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* May 12, 2018, 02:17:07 PM
I've staggered to a point where I can make fairly straightforward, workshop-useable drawings, but I feel I am using the system very inefficiently even for those.

I see a drawing as a string of geometrical entities - lines, circles, rectangles etc., and  joined sets of them, each with its location designated by an envelops symmetrical about a plotting-centre whose (x,y) co-ordinates are quoted in the Inspector Bar. (And z - but I can't grasp 3D's complex, interdependent co-ordinate and work-planes systems.

I've learnt these centres co-incide fully with the entity's actual centre only when the entity is symmetrical in 2 dimensions. E.g., join 2 rectangles to form a 'T' and the centre moves axially towards the T-bar; form an 'L' and the centre can legitimately be in thin air.   

So far so good, and I can make further entities of similar form as copies, and place them by their own  plotting-centres.

However, I'm often forced into rather laborious arithmetic with half-lengths, spaces and first entity co-ordinates, to make the various bits fit line-on-line. Either that or I shuffle the entities around by sight, aided by tweaking the Inspector Bar quotes - not very accurate, and doing that with line-ends usually means the Polyline tool can't Join them. I've found this approach can also unwittingly create stacked line fragments, invisible on screen but also preventing some tools from working.

Surely all that calculating can't be right? Or is it? Surely those wonderful Gallery images didn't involve hours of adding and subtracting hundreds of individual 3D co-ordinates and half-lengths?  I am drawing in 2D only though had originally hoped to learn to produce isometric engineering drawings - some hope!.

I ought add I am used to 3D co-ordinates otherwise, and manual isometric and orthographic drawing - but these generally use a single, set origin and definite auxiliary origins, all on just one "work-plane", the paper. I've tried simple isometric constructions in TurboCAD, but with no success. 

So can someone please tell what I am not seeing, about basic entity co-ordinates and locations? 

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


May 12, 2018, 03:31:28 PM
#1
do you use Snaps?

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* May 12, 2018, 03:37:43 PM
#2
Of course it's not right.  You're not 'forced' to do anything like that.  TC is feature-based, which means that it's programmed to let you manipulate and locate entities by referencing their features against each other.  The geometric 'centre' that you note is one feature, called the 'centre of extents', ie it's the geometric centre of the smallest box, orthogonally oriented, that the object fits into.  If it's an orthogonal line, the bounding box has no size in one dimension, so the yellow reference point is simply the centre of the line.  Otherwise you should be drawing and manipulating objects by referencing - snapping to - other features like endpoints and corners - vertices - divide points (you can tell TC how many divisions), centres of arcs and circles, their quadrants and divisions, middle points, intersections and so on.  TC has a system by which you hover the cursor near the feature you're addressing, 'near' meaning within the area of the snap aperture, then snap to it by hitting the relevant letter key for the feature, V for vertex, C for centre, M for middle and so on.  Learn them. 

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* May 12, 2018, 04:34:20 PM
#3
In TCad, the "plotting centre" of an object is its Reference Point (RP), which coincides with its Center of Extents unless you change it. Changing the RP allows you to locate the object precisely with respect to another object. To cite an arbitrary example, if you change the RP of a rectangle to one of its corners, you can then move the rectangle so that corner lies at the center of a particular circle. The underlying concept here is that of Snaps. To move the RP of an object, select it, press D on the keyboard, and Snap the cursor to the desired new position of the RP.

As Murray sez, learn Snaps. Understanding how to use them is absolutely essential.

Henry H

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* May 12, 2018, 05:22:09 PM
#4
A couple of short-cuts: have you noticed that holding shift while drawing forces lines to be orthogonal, and arcs to be incremental angles instead of full range?  You can use vector copy to "move" objects from any point or feature to any other point or feature instead of having to relocate the reference point.  Select the object, snap the "from" point, then the "to" point, the copy is located where you want it, delete the original.   

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* May 13, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
#5
Thankyou.

Ah - so I was right, I was missing something. Nowhere near where I'd thought (somewhere among co-ordinates) but in using Snaps' more subtle features to their full advantage.

I was aware of Snaps for aligning objects to the grid, and lines to corners, and had no problems making one regular object concentric to a previous one even if by noting the raw Reference Point's co-ordinates for the first, and entering them for the second.

I'd not noticed that Shift for drawing lines and arcs, no. I'll try it.... So far I'd always used Snap to Grid to make lines orthogonal.  And moved things by re-entering their RP co-ordinates (sorry, I didn't know its proper name). Similarly, if I wanted a copy, used Copy In Place then type the copy's location.   

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* May 19, 2018, 03:38:33 AM
#6
Still missing something somewhere!

I tried your advice and the alleged-Manual for this more advanced Snap feature, on a very simple, new drawing - just 3 dissimilar rectangles, a short way apart with their Centres of Extent on a common y-value line.

Tried making the right-hand shape join the centre one. Success, probably more by chance than skill! It resembled as intended, the elevation of a flanged bush.
Tried repeating with the left-hand rectangle - nothing worked. Sometimes it halved the shape's height, or pushed it to a random point elsewhere!
Gave up, turned the computer off, did something more useful.

Next time tried just 2 rectangles, but I could not find the right moves at all. Somehow one rectangle ended up with its CE well outside it and I can find no way to return it.

So I can use at least some of the basic Snaps direct from their menu, but not to manipulate entire shapes. I'm still where I started, having to calculate CofE co-ordinate moves - the "Manual" tells you Snaps avoid needing to do so, but not how.

I trawled the www for any references to proper TurboCAD literature. I encountered a big division between users who find it easy and like it - yes, from professional CAD experience - and beginners like me who described it as very difficult to learn. I'd heard this elsewhere, too. The common thread is the lack of any proper manual for TurboCAD; just assorted unofficial videos, mainly on you-tube.

I did find a version of the official "Help" menu pdf. document, but it's the same tangle, still starting with pages of advanced computer-handling before saying anything about drawing; and full of references to other pages far away among >700 others.  It had made one improvement, separating Snaps from Layers.

One point someone picked up - TurboCAD's symbols are all-American. (I didn't know it has a symbols library, for engineering-drawing at least.) Well, yes, it's an American product, but if you need are another country's or ISO industrial standards, or they are not included, you have to create your own. I realised TC has a big section for architecture and wood-work, but no obvious references to, and terms for, mechanical-engineering. Yes of course it lets you make engineering-drawings, but that lack is partly why I had to ask how to denote something as basic as a cross-section!

One is becoming very disheartened, one is. I'd have given up already if it were not for the money I've spent (software, printer, paper, ink, electricity) and hours expended. TurboCAD is the only genuine, professional-grade CAD package available to the amateur engineer. I know what TurboCAD can do for the expert, I know the expert would find it easy to use TurboCAD for the drawing types I need.... . Unfortunately, with no proper support literature it is extremely hard to learn even the basics by yourself, when you are reasonably competent at manual technical-drawing but lack any previous CAD training and experience.


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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* May 19, 2018, 04:44:44 AM
#7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKd7diwuKAs
Have you watched this video? Although it is 3d it does explain how snaps work

or this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8eTDKNx5E
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 05:02:06 AM by nikkipollard »

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* May 19, 2018, 09:07:45 AM
#8
When you want to move a selected object, place the cursor on its yellow Reference Point -- NOT on one of the green rotation handles and NOT on its edge. When the cursor changes to a four-way arrow shape, click and release the left mouse button. Drag the object to its destination and Snap it in place. (Many users, myself included, prefer to use keyboard shortcuts -- SEKEs -- for snapping, rather than to activate one or more of the "running" Snaps modes.)

Henry H

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* May 19, 2018, 10:26:51 AM
#9
Hi, Nigel.

It has taken me many years to gain a level of proficiency which allows me to make the drawings I need for the work I am doing.  When I started I knew nothing about Turbocad. It was difficult to even make one line.  Upon reading your post, I was thought perhaps it might help you to consider the strategy you are using to learn the program.  My impression of your problem is not that you are lacking specific knowledge so much as general knowledge.

It has been mentioned on this forum that Turbocad is difficult to learn.  That may be true but depends a lot upon the attitude of the individual.  I view the learning as a challenge and I want to understand the complete program.  When the learning is difficult and I feel frustrated, I try to remember that all learning is like that at times and often the most difficult things to learn in life are the most rewarding.

With regard to your current post, you are trying to learn to do a specific procedure so you can progress with making a certain drawing or a specific type of drawings.  That is a good strategy and everyone does it.  The only problem with this strategy, if overused, is that it is the slowest and most painful way to learn turbocad.

For me, the best strategy has been to study the program separately from the drawings I make.  When I started, I used the printed training manuals which I purchased with the program.  I then discovered the tutorials on YouTube and switched to them.  At this time I do occasional tutorials and use the offline manual, included with the program.  I also use the forum, of course.

To conclude, my favorite and recommended path for learning and productivity is as follows:

1.  Have a project or work that is meaningful and or profitable.  This makes all the learning and achievement relevant and satisfying.

2.  Use lots of tutorials.  I prefer the ones by Don Cheke.  He is especially good at showing how to set up the environment and you can follow every keystroke.  If I did not have access to the internet for tutorials, I would get them by mail order on CD.  They are, in my opinion, the fastest way to learn the program and gain a better understanding of the work environment.

3.  Use the manual.  I browse, search, and read random topics from the manual.  I have found it to be accurate and dependable.  I use the offline manual, which is searchable, available from the help button.  I don't need to know everything in the manual but I do need to know how to find things easily in it.

4.  Use the forum.  I read the current postings nearly every day, if I have internet service.  I search the forum for topics when I have a problem and sometimes post a question.

I offer these thoughts as a reply to your post because, when I look back to my progress, I could have learned what I know now in half the time had I used a better strategy.

If I were you, I would not pursue isometric. I used to like isometric in the t-square days but it is not an efficient use of resources in CAD.  I make either orthographic drawings or 3D models.  Making an isometric drawing requires all the effort of a 3D model with 2D results.

Turbocad is a great program but is rendered (no pun intended) difficult due to the training required.  Training can be much more efficient when the right resources are available and a good strategy is employed. For me, in spite of the occasional frustrations, my work with Turbocad has been satisfying, helpful in my work, and sometimes fun!

You are obviously smart enough for this program so be patient, consider your training strategy, and I think you would really enjoy some 3D modeling.

John Earl

AMD A10-4600 APU Radeon HD 2.3 GHz
16 GB Ram  Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
Turbocad 2016 64b  Version 23.2 build 61.2

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* May 19, 2018, 11:13:23 AM
#10
If you don’t want to change the objects reference point use the “move “command located in the “Transform” tool bar. After selecting “Move” there’s an option in the local menu to “Keep original object”. You access the local menu by right clicking or the inspector bar.
You can select the move tool then select an object or objects then right click and uncheck "select" or just hit Ctrl key, this will activate the X,Y,Z fields in the inspector bar for input or if you want to move selected object from a “source “point use a SEKE to snap from the “source” point on the selected object and use a SEKE again to snap to the “destination” on another object or you can also use the coordinate fields in the status bar for selecting the “source” and “destination” points. You access the status fields by hitting "Tab" key.
You can also select the object first then select the move tool.
 ;D I tried my best to follow Turbocads program language.
Turbocad is telling you (most of the time  :)your next move at the bottom left corner of the screen

« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 11:23:17 AM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* May 19, 2018, 03:08:53 PM
#11
Thank you all.

Nikki:
No, I've not seen the videos, though to be honest I find videos hard to learn from.

Henry:
Yes, I'd learnt you use the yellow Reference Point to move things about, and that this the default centre for bi-axially symmetrical entities like rectangle and circles. My problems came from moving things accurately, not knowing this is a deeper function of the Snaps - I'd twigged the basic, direct snap choices like grid and Vertex but was moving entities by co-ordinate calculations.

I've tried to use those SEKE moves but just became even more bogged down because though the Snaps menu gives the code-letters, I can't work out when in the sequence and where, so ended up with very strange results.

Things came to a head when investigating a particular, real-life problem. (This by chance matches an interesting point John Earl makes here.) I am modifying parts of a miniature steam-locomotive built with some un-recorded differences, from drawings in binary fractions of inches. I had to copy the original by redrawing  in TurboCAD, overlay that in different line colours with what had I measured as actually made, then use a further over-lay to design improvements in their replacements. Lots of conversion from vulgar to decimal fractions, halving of dimensions, additions and subtractions of co-ordinates... l guessed rightly that TC  is designed to do this arithmetic "behind the scenes" for you, but had no idea how, and the on-line Help manual does not Help.

I ought add that "overlay" there does not mean CAD 'Layers'. Just different colours on a single-layer, 2D drawing. I am far from learning the mysteries of Layers!

John:
Many years.... Oh Lor'! Not much hope for me then.

However, your are right. I have understood engineering drawings and used manual drawing for many years, but my knowledge of CAD was confined to seeing drawings made that way, and seeing what it's capable of doing. Trying to learn TurboCAD principles from its on-line manual is like trying to learn to drive from the owner's handbook supplied with the car: it tells you where the controls are, but assumes you understand their meanings, functions and use.

My copy of TurboCAD  came with a tutorial on a separate CD - no printed material at all. I made a good start with the exercise it walks you through, despite it not explaining anything, so is just a rote exercise. Unfortunately it contained a strange error by which a certain move would delete the whole drawing! 

I use two approaches.

1) I set up basic exercises concentrating on single aspects - like the deeper level of Snap use -  just a few simple shapes on a blank template. I've attempted 3D drawings like this, to a very low level - I find 2D basics difficult enough, without all those different but interacting co-ordinate and work-plane systems.

2) As you suggest, trying to draw a real thing I wish to make. This gives a clear aim plus some variety and logic in assembling geometric figures into a meaningful drawing. It also forces you to think about where each entity is meant to go, not just throw it at the image and work on it where it sticks. I have sometimes used work-rounds that give drawings that are useable, but awkward to create and rather rough-and-ready, because this does not use TurboCAD to its full advantage or as it is intended - so are ultimately frustrating. 

I have searched for printed manuals but none seem to exist for TurboCAD, and virtually none for CAD generally. I know there are lots of videos about but I don't find videos easy to use. The on-line Manual is very difficult. You really have to know what you are looking for, and it scrolls at Warp Factor Eight. I have helped myself a lot by producing a proper, printed, alphabetical index from its contents page - via Word then Excel - but the Manual still does expect you to understand the concepts before searching for details.

I did not realise there is a difference between an isometric view - with which I have been long familiar -- and a 3D Model, given both anyway rely on essentially an optical illusion on a single plane, irrespective of how the image is created.

I always had a clear idea of what I want to be able to do: draw 3D representations of physical engineering parts and assemblies. This is why I bought TurboCAD. I knew from drawings at work, albeit by a different make, that a comprehensive CAD programme lets you do that, lets you view the item from different angles; and to produce orthographic workshop drawings from them. (Am I right thinking it's actually easier, and intended, to produce the 2D workshop elevations from the 3D image, than the other way round?)

I am not worried about learning to make Gallery-standard artworks. I like the pictures and admire the skill, but that's not my aim, and anyway I am not capable of learning that. I do though have a particular engineering project that's been a challenge (or worse) for far too many years, and I had hoped being able to use CAD's 3D functions to a fair level would help me crack its most intractable problems.   

I do read the Forum, but it's mainly very advanced indeed, not really very helpful to a beginner.

Finally John, thank you for your closing compliment about my abilities: you have more faith in them than I do!

Dean;
Thank you for those instructions. This is the sort of operating detail I need but which is not in the Manual.

I think it would be worth me printing these off!

I've sometimes found that the instructions down there in the corner keep repeating, suggesting that whatever I am doing, is wrong. Another clue is the little chequered flag staying grey. Unfortunately it doesn't tell me where. Turning off "Auto" in Join Polyline gives more work to do but has somewhat diagnostic effects. Other tools simply keep saying "Select first entity...", but give no clue what's wrong. 

My main difficulty with TurboCAD's terminology is in it not always according with what I'd expect in technical drawing or think by intuition. This has sometimes meant that when I've gone wrong or misunderstood something, I go off searching ever further from the original problem area.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* May 19, 2018, 03:33:41 PM
#12
When you "can find no way" to do anything with TurboCAD, you haven't looked hard enough.  None of the problems that you've complained about have been TurboCAD shortcomings.  YOU have managed to displace the yellow reference point,  TurboCAD didn't do that spontaneously.  How did you do it?  What did you do?  When you've selected something, right-click and read the context menu list.  One item reads "edit reference point".  The only property that you can edit is the RP's location, and you do that by clicking that context menu item or by pressing the D key while there's a selection active.  When you've done that, the RP floats, it can be snapped to a feature, located with coordinate entry, or you can just put it down by clicking anywhere.  The RP can be returned to its default position, the selection set's CofE, by selecting the very next item below "edit reference point" in the context menu, which is "DEFAULT REFERENCE POINT".  Click that, and the RP returns to that very location.  Look harder, Nigel.  I don't know if TC deluxe has the transform tools that Dean refers to, earlier versions didn't, which is why I directed you to vector copy in another response.  It works in a similar way to transform move.   
TC doesn't lack a "proper manual".  It's been developed from a program that was like AutoCAD, one of the earliest commercial CAD programs, and most of its fundamental tools are very like AutoCAD's, and every other CAD program on the market, and those are actually pretty well covered in the V6 manual that I gave you a link to.  When these programs have grown to have so many capabilities, expecting them to have user manuals that can take every user from no knowledge whatsoever to competency is purely fanciful.  AutoCAD still costs more than $3000 in my market and companies that buy it are prepared to spend significant additional money to have their staff taught, but when a CAD program costs less than AutoCAD education, expecting to be educated for a proportional impost is also unreasonable.  Did your drawing board, pencils and T-square come with instructions, Nigel?   

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* May 19, 2018, 11:38:09 PM
#13
I am sorry that you cant follow videos, because there are so many videos out there that explain CAD concepts.
Most people can either follow written instructions or videos and some can follow both. I presumed that you would find the videos useful because you were battling with the help file.
Have you done any tutorials? They are a good way to learn.


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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


May 20, 2018, 12:34:43 AM
#14
After the TurboCAD 2D and 3D tutorials, I learned how to use TurboCAD by one of Don Cheke's tutorials (see http://www.textualcreations.ca/Textual%20Creations%20Shopping%20Page.html).

Choose the most interesting one that is no later than your version of TurboCAD.  The tutorial will be in the form of a PDF that will be very detailed (so much so that it will be in the range of hundreds of pages).  Speaking from experience, Don is available for voice chats (when his busy schedule allows) to help with sections I did not understand.

The tutorials are reasonably priced, too.  I've bought two.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* May 20, 2018, 11:12:40 AM
#15
Nigel,

Regarding 3D vs 2D, you are right.  When drawing an object, the intent of the program is to draw the object in 3D and then make views of the object.  The views are orthographic, isometric, or isometric with perspective.  If drawing a diagram, for example an electrical schematic, then 2D is all that is needed.

It was difficult for me to learn the operation of workplanes, layers, and views.  Once learned these all make sense and are easy to navigate.

As Jeff indicated, Don Cheke has some PDF tutorials.  If you like printed material, these may be the best.  There are also other useful resources on his site, textualcreations.ca.

John

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* May 21, 2018, 05:21:50 AM
#16
Thank you for the various instructions and explanations in your messages. 
I have copied and condensed them into a Word document placed in my Documents root folder so quick to find.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* May 22, 2018, 02:05:48 PM
#17
NikkiPollard:

Thank you: I followed up those two videos you cite.

The first, by Paul Tracy, is nice and clear, and concentrates neatly on the basics of 3D Snaps and Work-planes with just a few boxes. Although a wire-frame box in pictorial form can create odd optical illusions (a diametric cube appears as a hexagon with spokes), I found I could follow it reasonably well. Importantly, he demonstrates the point that simply dragging an object to what looks on screen like its intended new position... doesn't! I'd already found that, but didn't know why.

The other by TurboCAD's own people, covers a lot of ground but is a bit too much, too fast, for me. I'd have found it easier if like Paul Tracy, they'd kept to wire-frame images rather than very dark rendering that hides the objects' axes indicators.  I noted the demonstrated, corresponding 3D effect to the non-closed 2D Polyline, on an extrusion: as with Paul's video, showing how to avoid the pitfalls is as important as simply showing the results of use TC's controls all-correctly. Even so, as I've found with other videos in various places, to me it was more an expert demonstrating his use of it more than instructing how to use it.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* May 23, 2018, 02:05:34 PM
#18
I'm sorry but I cannot grasp how these Snaps are meant to work for aligning things at all.

I know what they are meant to do; I know everyone else finds them easy..

I read your collected instructions, watched two of the suggested videos - one is clear and concentrates just on snapping one simple shape to another, albeit in 3D; but the other is too much for me.

So I tried a few simple shapes, just rectangles, and initially had some success. I discovered mutual-trimming and hatching an effective way to prove the shapes had met properly. Then it all went to rats.

I have studied the pdf Manual carefully (despite itself) yes it tells me what the different snap types do but not really how to make them do it. Despite? Its section on Snaps is interleaved with that on Layers, and it refers to Snap Apertures without helping me find anything about them. 

Opened the supplied A4 template, drew two simple rectangles, tried moving them together; 2D World Plan only. No grid unfortunately - I'd forgotten it needs turning on at the start.

I could move the Centre of Extents in each to half-way along one side, or to a vertex.

I could not reliably connect the shapes, even though careful to ensure what I took to be the right Snap mode was turned on. Really all I found is that it's far too easy to change the entities' sizes and locations randomly, by mistake, without really knowing how.

Eventually I returned both C of Es to the default rectangles' centres, and tried to make sense of it. I centred the larger shape on (0,0) and tried to snap the smaller to it so they are concentric. In theory the C of E of both should be at (0,0). They looked nearly concentric but weren't. the outer one was correct. The inner was slightly off-centre horizontally;  but vertically its centre was from a totally different origin, for its  C of E was at something like (3.7, -59)!

Investigating, somehow I'd set the inner rectangle to its own, invisible, grid about 50mm vertically above the other, according to the ruler-cursor. Don't ask how! I genuinely do not know how or when.

If I can't get it right on one (X, Y) plane I have no hope of understanding 3D.                 

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


May 23, 2018, 03:09:00 PM
#19
Here's a simple tutorial.

1. Draw a Rectangle (any size that fits in the central portion of the TurboCAD Model space window).
2. Tap Function Key <F7> (it selects the most recently-created object).
3. Tap the 'D' key (must be lower case)
4. Move the cursor over the left side of the Rectangle.
5. Press the 'M' key (aka Mid-Point Snap).

The local origin of the Rectangle is now the center of its left side.

6. Draw a Circle to the right of the Rectangle that is somewhat smaller than the Rectangle's side.
7. Press the <Space> key to exit the Circle function.
8. Click on the Rectangle.  It will highlight with the Reference Point shown on the left side.
9. Click on the Rectangle's Reference Point.  This frees the Rectangle to be moved.
10. Move the cursor (and, by extension, the Rectangle's Reference Point) so that it is very close to the Circle.
11. Tap the 'E' key (aka Center of Extents Snap).

The Rectangle has now been repositioned so that its left side goes through the center of the Circle.

You have now used the Snap functionality twice.

In the attached image, you can adjust how Snaps work (either sensitive to the cursor position or only manual operation).  If you remember the Snap SEKE (Single Entry Keyboard Equivalent), then you can Snap to various characteristics of an object.  Some examples (there are many more):
V: Vertex Snap (junction of two open 2D objects such as Lines, Arcs, etc.).
E: Center of Extents Snap (the mid-point of the X and Y ranges).
M: Mid-Point Snap (middle of a line segment).
Q: For Arcs and Circles, one of the 90° points.

From here, you just have to familiarize yourself with the options.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* May 24, 2018, 03:01:11 AM
#20
Any move is designed to bring one feature to the same point as another.    The first point is the "from" point, the receiving feature is the "to" point.  When you relocate the Reference Point, you're doing that to make it the "from" point.  Its default position is the Centre of Extents of the selection set, so you pick it up with the "D" key, then use the appropriate snap to locate the Reference Point on the feature that you've identified as the "from" point, ie you "put the Reference Point down".  Then, when you hover the cursor over the reference point and click, you pick up the active selection set BY THAT POINT, and you move it by the cursor to the point or feature that you've identified as the "to" point, and you use a snap that refers to that "to" point to put the selection set down again.  You've moved one feature, and a bunch of other features associated with it, to coincide with a receiving feature.   Before we advised you to use snaps, you described that you'd been using coordinates and calculation.  Snaps are a fast, accurate way to identify and use the graphical features at those coordinates, without having to transcribe the numerical values at all.
This description has referred to moving objects, but when you're familiar with snaps, you use them to locate objects and refer them to each other as you draw or model, so less moving things afterwards should be needed.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:43:22 AM by murray dickinson »

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May 24, 2018, 04:36:27 AM
#21
Thought I would do a quick video of a few things I don't think have been mentioned Align tools and Delta moves...as well as Vertex Snaps

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nUizYH1M5jM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nUizYH1M5jM</a>


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Daz...
V2017 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 24GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


* May 24, 2018, 09:14:30 AM
#22
Thank you Murray & Jeffin
for those instructions.

And Darrel,
for the offered video but apart from adding two extra tools before I've managed to understand the basic ones, it doesn't show here. I see only a big blank window with a "no entry" symbol. If it's blocked by my security software, I've no idea how to free it.

It looks as I was confusing Reference Point with Centre of Extent, which won't help! I understood snaps are to locate things accurately and quickly by avoiding a lot of arithmetic (with its risk of errors), but not how to ask them to do that, so was probably doing things in the wrong order, or accidentally selecting wrong tools.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


May 24, 2018, 09:20:18 AM
#23
NigelG:

These are basic tools...

Can you view the video clicking on this link? ...It is a Youtube Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=nUizYH1M5jM

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Daz...
V2017 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 24GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


* May 25, 2018, 01:14:53 PM
#24
Looks as if I can see it - just had a quick look without the speakers plugged in - though the image showed no drawing, just a cursor hopping about a blank space. I'll try again with the sound on though I can't see that would make a difference.

Ah, "Delta" moves... Glimmer of light. Am I right thinking this is by typing the numerical values of the moves in those "Delta X, ~Y, ~Z " boxes on the Inspector bar? My first thought was that would something like what I'd been doing, then realised it would allow such adjustments as accurate off-sets from centres.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


May 25, 2018, 01:34:48 PM
#25
Ah, "Delta" moves... Glimmer of light. Am I right thinking this is by typing the numerical values of the moves in those "Delta X, ~Y, ~Z " boxes on the Inspector bar? My first thought was that would something like what I'd been doing, then realised it would allow such adjustments as accurate off-sets from centres.

Yes, that is exactly what it means.  In 2D, there is also the option (if you activate it) to specify Distance and Angle (so that you don't have to do Trigonometry).


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* May 25, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
#26
Thank you. In fact I tried the Delta moves on a fairly simple drawing consisting mainly of rectangles,  since posting that.

I don't recall seeing the Distance and Angle control but have used Rotate - I know the angle increments are part of the Drawing Setup.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.