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Are Cross-sections Possible - If So, How Please?
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* February 09, 2018, 09:29:03 AM

TC appears not to have heard of a "cross-section", one of most basic engineering-drawing functions, so does anyone know how you are meant to represent them for more than simple, single- boundary figures?

The term "cross-section" is not even in the official on-line "manual"! The nearest is a brief bit about "Hatching" - pattern-filling a single area of continuous boundary, but as that ignores any enclosed, separate figures it defeats the object.

This is fine for a solid bar, but not for even a simple annulus, like a pipe. I tried various tricks, but the 45º angle section-lines always cross the internal shapes as well as their own enclosure. I tried filling the internal shapes solid white, and 'Trim'-ming the hatching, but neither works here.

Surely there is something better than either semi-freehand drawing lots of separate little lines at 45º; or equally-laboriously breaking the drawing into a tangle of individual polylines?

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 09, 2018, 10:17:53 AM
#1
Have you looked at the "Section tool" and or" Draft", they will both give you a section that you can give a brush, i dont know what edition you use but at least in Platinum you will have 2 different way.

Anyway, it is a good idea to write what version/ edition of TC you use in your signature field

Torfinn

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* February 09, 2018, 10:28:30 AM
#2
Thank you - good point - it's Deluxe 19.

I didn't know there is a "Section" tool! The manual doesn't mention sections, but I'll have a look in the tool-bars.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 09, 2018, 11:08:34 AM
#3
Further to your suggestion, for which thank-you....
.
I found "Detail Section" but no "section tool", and it refers only to using it for details in 3D drawings. My version of TC Deluxe 19 is 2D only, so it seems it will not allow properly-hatched cross-sections in any direct, efficient manner.

I can't believe any CAD programme would lack such a universal, basic function, though I would believe it being made very awkward to use.
So what have I missed? Where is it hidden?

It's occurred to me, if the objects are simple and entirely symmetrical, to draw one half along the centre-line so the bits not to be sectioned (e.g. a shaft in a bush) appear as notches in the poly-lined outline; hatch that then mirror-image the lot; but it's long-winded, fraught with difficulty, fails to accommodate holes etc. still within the polyline area, and only really feasible with full symmetry. 

The only simple work-round is a few, representative, "freehand" sloping lines in strategic places, and put up with them looking messy. Luckily I do not have to work to full, professional ISO- or BSI- standards, but I still want decent results.


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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 09, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
#4
Deluxe dont have section ot draft, but it is a 3D program, you only need to toggle between 2 and 3D.
But why cant you use the pick point Hatch tool if it it only 2D ??

Attached is 2D hatched and 2:1 scale in P space

Torfinn

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* February 09, 2018, 12:27:20 PM
#5
Thankyou for those suggestions.

As far as I know my version is 2D-only, but I'd have thought a function designed to edit a 3D version drawing would not work in 2D-only anyway.

I tried that Pick-point hatching and after a first attempt which altered the wrong bit of the area, it did nothing at all. However I have noticed TurboCAD does not always do what it says it will, no matter how careful you are!

The manual tells you to select the PPH tool, then select area to affect. The cursor changes to a cross like a + sign, but that's it. Nothing further.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 09, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
#6
Maybe the scale on the Hatch is to big, or a solid Hatch in wireframe will not show, or Hatch/ pencolor is the same as the work area color ??

Deluxe is 2D/ 3D, just look down on the inspector bar, if the field's only show X and Y you are in 2D mode, if there is a Z field there you are in 3D.
Just on the rigth side of the input fields you will find the button for switch," toggle 2D/ 3D"
That said, if drawing 2D you should be in 2D mode.

Torfinn

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* February 09, 2018, 05:18:10 PM
#7
I have no idea what dimension mode this thing's in, although I searched carefully to find out.

The tool-bars show a z co-ordinate box, holding only "0", but the only 2D/3D toggle is one of the Join Polyline controls. I found a little button called "Section" with an isometric sketch of a sectioned cube, so 3D, but among quite a number that are ineffective (greyed-out). The labels on the original CD don't tell me if 2D or 3D; nor does its box label, despite its two sample 3D sub-assembly drawings at discouraging levels of complexity. 

The scale should be OK. I don't know anything about 'wireframes', but I followed your suggestion about colours. That worked, nearly, sometimes. I want to remove cross-hatching from parts that should not be sectioned, in the middle of something that should be, and all drawn in black on white. Changing the Brush to white cleared the lines where I wanted but also made the details' outlines invisible.  I could show them, but only partially and as slightly enlarged concentric copies - which would affect any dimensions.

I believe basically that either TurboCAD will not allow proper, conventional sections surrounding non-sectioned objects,  or it does but the technique is beyond me; so my only alternatives are a polylines nightmare or messy, sketched-in diagonal lines.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 09, 2018, 05:20:07 PM
#8
Post your drawing file.  We'll tell you what you're doing wrong and/or what you need to do to achieve what you're after.

Version-19-Deluxe is a 3D-also program.  You will find 3D Tools, if you look for them.  The "Section" Tool is a tool generally within the 3D Tools.

But you're not drawing 3D, which is why we were originally confused by your request.  You're drawing a "sectional", using 2D Tools and want to know how to apply a Hatch, so it looks like professionally drafted drawings.  Easy-peasy in version-19-Deluxe; just upload/attach your drawing file, and someone(s) will tell you how.

-Alvin
 

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 09, 2018, 05:22:37 PM
#9
...

I believe basically that either TurboCAD will not allow proper, conventional sections surrounding non-sectioned objects, or it does but the technique is beyond me; so my only alternatives are a polylines nightmare or messy, sketched-in diagonal lines.

"... or it does but the technique is beyond me... "

Exactly.  Until you learn this easy-to-learn-with-persistent-and-diligent-effort program.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 09, 2018, 05:35:11 PM
#10
I have no idea what dimension mode this thing's in, although I searched carefully to find out.

The tool-bars show a z co-ordinate box, holding only "0", but the only 2D/3D toggle is one of the Join Polyline controls. I found a little button called "Section" with an isometric sketch of a sectioned cube, so 3D, but among quite a number that are ineffective (greyed-out). The labels on the original CD don't tell me if 2D or 3D; nor does its box label, despite its two sample 3D sub-assembly drawings at discouraging levels of complexity. 


The scale should be OK. I don't know anything about 'wireframes', but I followed your suggestion about colours. That worked, nearly, sometimes. I want to remove cross-hatching from parts that should not be sectioned, in the middle of something that should be, and all drawn in black on white. Changing the Brush to white cleared the lines where I wanted but also made the details' outlines invisible.  I could show them, but only partially and as slightly enlarged concentric copies - which would affect any dimensions.

I believe basically that either TurboCAD will not allow proper, conventional sections surrounding non-sectioned objects,  or it does but the technique is beyond me; so my only alternatives are a polylines nightmare or messy, sketched-in diagonal lines.

In Model Space, the 2D/3D toggle is an icon on the Inspector Bar. It's not available in Paper Space because that is indeed a 2D environment. Recommended practice is to do your drawing in Model Space, even if the stuff you draw is only 2D, and use Paper Space mainly for preparing the drawing for printing.

Henry H

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* February 09, 2018, 07:21:41 PM
#11
Nigel Got access to YouTube?

Search IMSI Design there are more 200 videos on just about every possible topic.

Tip save to your pc for quick reference  rather reviewing each time on the net.

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* February 09, 2018, 09:39:52 PM
#12
I am a little confused You are drawing in 2d, and you want to draw a cross section. Magically? I hate to tell you this but you have to draw the cross section the same way you drew the plan.
2d drawing is just a digital drawing board. Lines are just lines. They dont hold any information that would tell the computer how to draw the section.
A 3d model holds a lot more information. When you have a 3d model there are a variety of ways you can generate sections, elevations etc.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 09:50:46 PM by nikkipollard »

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
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* February 10, 2018, 10:37:51 AM
#13
Thank you, Nikki, Alvin, Daryl, Henry.

I think together you have confirmed my fear that TurboCAD will not let you designate cross-sections properly, by cross-hatching, in 2D orthographic drawings, if the primary area contains detached inner regions not to be cross-hatched.

How was I to know though? Such sections have always been fundamental to most types of engineering drawings in both 3D and 2D projections; so how could I know TurboCAD will not let you do it? I could understand it requiring editing the inner shapes to trim the overall hatching back to their own, intact boundaries, or perhaps placing the non-hatched details over the hatching so they mask it, but as far as I can see it won't even let you do these.

How could I know you need to draw the object in 3D to have any hope of cross-sectioning it? That adds a huge overhead of extra, advanced computer-using to one of the simplest drawing techniques. I do not know if my copy is fully 3D-capable, despite the discouragingly-impressive samples on the CD's labels.

CAD packages are not easy to learn without very broad, deep general IT ability on top of your existing knowledge of technical-drawing which is the real point after all. When the scanty information the manufacturers deign to publish does not reveal the limits of the various functions, it is very easy to assume that such a basic manoeuvre as illustrating a cross-section irrespective of projection type exists - all you need do is find it. 

Videos - sorry but I find them the worst form of tutorial material. They just show experts giving running commentaries on what they find easy, reflecting that ancient but confidence-devastating canard, "It's easy! Anyone can do it!". I need a proper text-book but none is available.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 10, 2018, 10:57:04 AM
#14
Reply #14

I'm an uneducated used-to-be-carpenter of average intelligence and comparably limited vocabulary.  But I managed to learn and become proficient with CAD-- TurboCAD.

In my learning, I never sought to blame the software; I always kept in mind that it was/is probably my lack of knowledge of the software product that was the hindrance.

-Alvin

 p.s.:  We all agree, the Help Documentation can be less than optimal.  That's why the now no-longer supported TurboCAD Wiki site was a great augmentation to the Help Documentation.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 11:00:55 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 10:58:05 AM
#15
... TurboCAD will not let you designate cross-sections properly, by cross-hatching, in 2D orthographic drawings, if the primary area contains detached inner regions not to be cross-hatched.
...

That, quoted above, is incorrect.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
#16
Below is one example of one method of inserting "cross-sections"* when drawing in 2D, using version-19-Deluxe.
This method uses the Pick Point Hatching Tool (do not confuse this with the Pick Point Hatch Tool)
Click on the image below to start the .gif animation.

I'll post another method/example.

________
*I'll use Nigel's nomenclature, so to try to not have a communication error.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 11:20:37 AM
#17
The .gif below shows another method of quickly/easily creating "cross-sections" when drawing in 2D, using version-19-Deluxe.
This method utilizes the Format/Create_Hatch command.
Click on the image below to start the .gif animation.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 11:22:15 AM
#18
Easy-peasy

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 11:55:06 AM
#19
Thank you for those suggestions Alvin - -I will try them.

I saw that Pick Point Hatch and PPH-ing are two different things but could not understand the manual's vague explanation. Another respondent yesterday suggested using that. I tried it, and it seemed to work, partially, but only once then not again.

To your other point...

Oh, I know it's me not the software at fault, although it and its manual do you leave you floundering.

The more I try to advance with it, the harder each move becomes, and that's why the suggestion that showing cross-sections needs a 3D drawing, is so disheartening. It's like being waist-deep in the shallow end of a full-length swimming-pool full of treacle, where the 3D skills are at the deep end.

In advancing what should still be straightforward technical drawing basics, the more complicated, difficult and un-intuitive the computer-driving. People talk of learning things in small steps. TurboCAD's are staircase steps, each bigger, more difficult to climb and more slippery to stay on, than the previous. This still at very low level: I do not envisage being able to reach the skill of the draughtsman who made the two 3D illustrations on my software copy's physical package. (Of two different sub-assemblies. One is what I think is a 'wireframe' image; the other, fully-coloured solid.)

In this case, learning from you all that I should really be using TC's 3D functions, does not put a few small steps in front of me, but those TurboCAD steps on a very high, steep, winding staircase to floors I cannot see.   

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 10, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
#20
Thank you for those suggestions Alvin - -I will try them.

I saw that Pick Point Hatch and PPH-ing are two different things but could not understand the manual's vague explanation. Another respondent yesterday suggested using that. I tried it, and it seemed to work, partially, but only once then not again.

To your other point...

Oh, I know it's me not the software at fault, although it and its manual do you leave you floundering.

The more I try to advance with it, the harder each move becomes, and that's why the suggestion that showing cross-sections needs a 3D drawing, is so disheartening. It's like being waist-deep in the shallow end of a full-length swimming-pool full of treacle, where the 3D skills are at the deep end.

In advancing what should still be straightforward technical drawing basics, the more complicated, difficult and un-intuitive the computer-driving. People talk of learning things in small steps. TurboCAD's are staircase steps, each bigger, more difficult to climb and more slippery to stay on, than the previous. This still at very low level: I do not envisage being able to reach the skill of the draughtsman who made the two 3D illustrations on my software copy's physical package. (Of two different sub-assemblies. One is what I think is a 'wireframe' image; the other, fully-coloured solid.)

In this case, learning from you all that I should really be using TC's 3D functions, does not put a few small steps in front of me, but those TurboCAD steps on a very high, steep, winding staircase to floors I cannot see.
I understand, Nigel.
Turning on the light is easy "only" if you know where the switch is  ;D

I was trained to draw a 3D object without the use of 3D tools.
I created a 3D object by working with 2D entities in the Top,Bottom, left, Right,Front and Back views.
Each view was a "cross section" of the 3D object.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 12:38:14 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* February 10, 2018, 12:56:46 PM
#21
Interesting approach, Dean - but were those "cross-sections" simply the drawn object's exterior surfaces?

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 10, 2018, 04:59:22 PM
#22
Deluxe dont have section ot draft, but it is a 3D program, you only need to toggle between 2 and 3D.
But why cant you use the pick point Hatch tool if it it only 2D ??

Attached is 2D hatched and 2:1 scale in P space

Torfinn

I seem to have a Section tool in V19 Deluxe. The ‘Command’ is in the "Insert" category. In the "Default" configuration, it's found on the bottom of the "Modify" menu.

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John R.

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* February 10, 2018, 05:11:36 PM
#23
It's available in my 24.0.42.0 64Bit Deluxe installation.

Henry H

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* February 10, 2018, 05:28:05 PM
#24
Just a reminder:  Nigel is wanting a very simple method of drawing a 2D "cross-section".  Like the old days, before CAD, using a "manual drawing-board".  Basically, from what I am comprehending of Nigel's posts in this thread, he can draw the outline of the cross-section easy enough; he just wants to know the easy way of drawing the hatch pattern (Brush) within them, indicating a "cross section".  Torfinn and I have been pointing Nigel to the use of the Pick Point Hatching Tool; I have also suggested to Nigel Format/Create_Hatch might serve his purpose as well.

Anything referencing 3D is just confusing-- and perhaps flummoxing-- to Nigel at this point in his learning process.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:34:14 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 05:29:28 PM
#25
Below is another animated .gif example, showing the use of the Format/Create_Hatch command.  (it takes a few seconds before the animation aspect starts)

The 3D elements were only drawn and are only shown for illustration and communication purpose.

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 05:38:31 PM
#26
Thanks John, thats correct, i did find it now when i know where to look :)
I dont have 19 installed at the moment but it is in the same place in 2015 and 2016 as well and also in Expert.

Alvin, that is not the point in John's post, it is about if there is a Section tool or not, the one i did not see earlier is there.

Torfinn

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* February 10, 2018, 05:48:05 PM
#27
Just a reminder:  Nigel is wanting a very simple method of drawing a 2D "cross-section".  Like the old days, before CAD, using a "manual drawing-board".  Basically, from what I am comprehending of Nigel's posts in this thread, he can draw the outline of the cross-section easy enough; he just wants to know the easy way of drawing the hatch pattern (Brush) within them, indicating a "cross section".  Torfinn and I have been pointing Nigel to the use of the Pick Point Hatching Tool; I have also suggested to Nigel Format/Create_Hatch might serve his purpose as well.

Anything referencing 3D is just confusing-- and perhaps flummoxing-- to Nigel at this point in his learning process.

You're probably right, Alvin. It would be easier to help Nigel if he could show us just what it is that he wants to cross-section.

Henry H

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* February 10, 2018, 05:57:54 PM
#28
It's a 2D drawing Henry, as he was'nt aware about that DL is 2/3D, and 2D is sort of difficult to do a section on, so until he give it a thickness he have to use Hatch or/ and Brush i believe.

Torfinn

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* February 10, 2018, 06:21:34 PM
#29
It's a 2D drawing Henry, as he was'nt aware about that DL is 2/3D, and 2D is sort of difficult to do a section on, so until he give it a thickness he have to use Hatch or/ and Brush i believe.

Torfinn

I believe Nigel wants to draw the whole thing in 2D-- like the old days, using a pencil & paper, T-square, and drafting-board; but adding the ability to quickly & easily hatch (apply a Brush pattern) to illustrate a "cross-section".
I think it's best to appease him, and stick to 2D advice and instruction for Nigel, until he gains a bit of experience and confidence in/with CAD/TurboCAD.
Any references to anything 3D here is just going to confuse Nigel, and probably discourage him from continuing much further in learning TurboCAD (which should prove to be a fun and rewarding hobby for him, if he perseveres through the initial learning process).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 06:26:25 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 10, 2018, 06:44:21 PM
#30
I dont know what Nigel want or dont want, thats up to him, not my right to tell.
But for the moment the Hatch/ Brush is his solution for what he want to achive in the drawing (s) he have.
So until he want to start with 3D, section is not a question so we forget that for the moment

Meanwhile he can get help if needed with Hatch/ Brush on the 2D objects or other stuff, and then maybe we should show only 2D stuff.

Torfinn

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* February 10, 2018, 06:54:29 PM
#31
Interesting approach, Dean - but were those "cross-sections" simply the drawn object's exterior surfaces?

All objects Nigel.
exterior and interior are depicted in all the views.

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* February 11, 2018, 12:44:54 AM
#32
What I was trying to say. Is when you draw in 2d you can draw anything you can imagine.
Just like pencil and paper on a drawing board. Each view is drawn by projecting etc. 2d is a good place to start when learning cad - especially if you are familiar with old school (pen and paper) drawing techniques. Brushes,(hatch patterns) text, dimensions are all used to make more sense of what you have drawn. You can also use symbols or blocks to show section lines etc. Some are available but most people just create their own.

When you model  in 3d you can still create anything, but it is more like using clay.
You can generate sections and elevations from models. If the Model changes so do the sections and elevations. Those sections, elevations and details can be enhanced to make more sense by adding brushes, text, dimensions and symbols.

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* February 11, 2018, 02:27:06 PM
#33
Thank you - yes, it is simply the analogue to the dr

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 13, 2018, 03:48:29 PM
#34
Oops - accidentally sent that unfinished.

Have found it now, thank you all - the problem was not quite where I thought, but in finding it very hard to make proper Polyline areas.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 13, 2018, 04:00:04 PM
#35
You could try using the irregular polygon tool, it creates closed polygons, so you can't fail to get a polyline area.  It's like stretching a rubber band over pins in a board.

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* February 23, 2018, 02:14:12 PM
#36
Thank you Murray.
I see what you mean, though not how to do it!

I discovered eventually the problem was I was not closing the outlines sufficiently accurately, and TC is extremely fussy about that. (Very likely all CAD packages are, because if used to create CAM files, even a tiny open-joint or crossed-joint might make a machine cut short or over-cut where a human would ignore or correct such faults almost instinctively - if the faults are actually visible on the print.)

I twigged one way is to make the lines overhang each other then rein them in with Object Trim. Drawing sections is still very difficult and unreliable though, as TC gleefully lets you know you've done something wrong, but not how or where. That's just in 2D: I'll leave 3D (Isometric) Projection to you expert professionals!  :)

Also found dimensioning baffling, but discovered that if the value displayed fails to match the actual line length, deleting the " < > " control-codes in the dimension's Properties - General - Attributes turns the numbers to pure text corrigible manually. I doubt that's what TC's designers had in mind, but if it works....!

Logged
Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 23, 2018, 08:43:21 PM
#37
Closing a polyline is easier then you think. When you get to the last segment right click your mouse and select close.
You can assign a "brush" (or hatch pattern ) to that polyline.

Logged
Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* February 24, 2018, 08:48:50 AM
#38
"I twigged one way is to make the lines overhang each other then rein them in with Object Trim. "

Try the Meet 2 Lines tool. I find it easier than Object Trim, and it works whether the entities overlap or don't meet at all. And it works with arcs and curves as well as lines.

Henry H

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* February 25, 2018, 01:54:13 PM
#39
Thank you Nikki and Henry.

It appears that closing that last part of a polyline fully depends on all the previous corners being fully and properly connected. I find I laboriously try to select each element in turn, but nothing happens. If I'm right, if you have created the outline correctly the little chequered-flag "close" or "end" sign brightens, but it stays grey, suggesting I am failing to do something further back, but  not what or where.

I have, by the way, peeped nervously at the 3D side of TurboCAD.  It's not for the self-taught beginner!

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 25, 2018, 02:45:14 PM
#40
Thank you Nikki and Henry.

It appears that closing that last part of a polyline fully depends on all the previous corners being fully and properly connected. I find I laboriously try to select each element in turn, but nothing happens. If I'm right, if you have created the outline correctly the little chequered-flag "close" or "end" sign brightens, but it stays grey, suggesting I am failing to do something further back, but  not what or where.

I have, by the way, peeped nervously at the 3D side of TurboCAD.  It's not for the self-taught beginner!

Sure it is. I was a self-taught beginner once, and so were a great many other Forum regulars.

Henry H

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* February 25, 2018, 05:08:56 PM
#41
I think it's critical that you need to learn how to use snaps, Nigel.  With snaps, your endpoints are connected as you draw them, there's no need to trim or join afterwards at all.  TC is what's called "feature-based" CAD, and snaps connect lines, arcs and curves, which are themselves features, to other features.  When you open a new drawing with no figures in it, the only features that exist in the drawing are the coordinate system and the grid that derives from it.  The "features" that snaps recognise and connect to are grid intersections, points (vertices), which are line end points, and all you have to do is move your cursor to somewhere near the point that you want to connect to, and press the G key for a grid intersection or V key for a line endpoint, the line or whatever should connect to it immediately.  If you're not close enough to it, or there's ambiguity, a message or a "ding" sound tells you so.  Lines have other features too, mid-point accessed with the M key, divide points accessed with D (you can specify how many divisions from the "snap" and "geo" boxes below the drawing window), and nearest point on the line to the cursor, with N.  Then there are features that apply to other figures, a circle's centre which is accessed with C (but you've gotta hover the cursor over the target circle's perimeter, not it's centre), Q for its quadrant points. 
You can also use "running snaps", where the snaps are active all the time and give you visual cues on-screen (flickering red x or diamond outline) when your cursor is in proximity to the feature, or have snaps inactive but invoke them with TC's Single Entry Key Equivalent (SEKE) when you recognise the proximity yourself, which is one of TC's greatest usability strengths.  When I started using TC, I found TC's much more fluid than others' systems, but even in other CAD systems, snaps are equally vital.   
They're perhaps the most important part of CAD, because they're used in every part of it.  They ensure precision when performing any action, so they ensure the efficiency of every action by making after-the-fact editing unnecessary.  No problems like integrity of hatch regions or even untidiness.   Use them always and everything you do will be easier.
 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 05:34:17 PM by murray dickinson »

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* February 26, 2018, 04:20:50 PM
#42
Thank you Murray.

I think now it was me not using the snaps fully or correctly that led to my problems. It's not always obvious that a joint exists to sufficient precision by display alone.
I have picked up on the little red diamond sign, but haven't seen or heard any warning messages or chimes. This is the kind of information that you cannot find anywhere else, including in TC's own on-line manual!

I've also found the snap type is critical - selecting the wrong one makes the cursor eagerly grab the nearest but wrong destination. This particularly when the line I wanted to draw is from a definite end-point to a point part-way along another line, but I didn't realise you can determine such points.

I have been sent a very basic TC primer, originally accompanying an earlier version than mine but there seem to be no differences in the first exercise it gives - drawing what becomes an irregular pentagon you can hatch or fill. Again though, it tells you what to do but doesn't warn you of where things can go wrong or why the polyline it leads you through, won't work as it should.

Incidentally, for some reason I cannot open this forum from TC's own Help menu. I have to find it via Google - I don't know if the direct link is broken by my computer's security software.

Logged
Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 26, 2018, 04:57:35 PM
#43
re: …Incidentally, for some reason I cannot open this forum from TC's own Help menu. I have to find it via Google - I don't know if the direct link is broken by my computer's security software.

That link: Link_4=TurboCAD Forum<http://support.turbocad.com/link.php?link=tcforum&PN=pro&ver=19.0&loc=help> is no longer supported. You could change the bad link in the TurboCAD Explorer palette, within the "[Web_Links]" section, to the actual address for the forum (Link_4=TurboCAD Forum<http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php>).

I would probably be easier to use a Bookmark in a Web Browser.

Logged
John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* February 27, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
#44
Thank you John.

Umm, yes, I think you're right. It may well be easier, and safer, for me continue to use the browser. I could try as you suggest but learning to use TC as it is intended is difficult enough, without risking trying to alter its web-site settings! I put the forum site in my 'Favorites' folder but it would not open from there either.

Logged
Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 27, 2018, 03:27:23 PM
#45
Further to that, I tried but though I found the cited TurboCAD Explorer palette, it has no "Web Links" section as far as I can see. I don't suppose it depends on the edition of TC you have, does it? (Mine is Deluxe 19).

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 27, 2018, 09:03:18 PM
#46
Here is where the "Web_Links" are in TurboCAD Explorer. You can replace the address inside the < > with this <http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php>. You can edit the text inplace, then restart TurboCAD. Go to "Help / TurboCAD on the Web / TurboCAD Forum". It should open your default browser to this forum.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* February 28, 2018, 07:51:23 AM
#47
John R, thank you for this screenshot!  Finally I can access the forums from within TC.  However, all of the other links in your list are dead for me, using Deluxe v19.  Do you or anyone else have corrected URLs?  In particular, I cannot access online help from within TC, which presumably means that Link_2 is incorrect.

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Doug Mackie
TC 19.2 Deluxe on Win 7 32-bit
Occasional TC user since v3


* February 28, 2018, 01:48:07 PM
#48
Well, I tried it but I'm afraid it didn't work here. I can find this site only by typing "turbocad forum" in the browser.

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Nigel.

On TC Deluxe 19: hobby use.


* February 28, 2018, 02:52:06 PM
#49
Well, I tried it but I'm afraid it didn't work here. I can find this site only by typing "turbocad forum" in the browser.

You can't use "Ctrl+D" to create a bookmark of the main Forum webpage in your browser?

This is the link I have for the V19 online Help, but I like the PDF better: https://turbocaddoc.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TC19UG/pages

Logged
John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit