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ACIS Faceter Quality: Recent Versions Method vs. Older Versions'
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* January 06, 2018, 06:35:57 AM
Hello All,

Starting in what version did TurboCAD ACIS options incorporate the slider method of adjusting the Faceter Quality?
And, in older versions such as 20PP, what Custom settings in the three options-- Surface Tolerance, Normal Tolerance, Maximum Edge Length-- most closely replicates a Faceter Quality setting of 100?

-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 06, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
#1
Version 21 implemented the ‘slider’ feature.
Maybe these old pix from the “Forbidden” TurboCADCommunity site will be helpful.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* January 06, 2018, 11:21:06 AM
#2
Version 21 implemented the ‘slider’ feature.
Maybe these old pix from the “Forbidden” TurboCADCommunity site will be helpful.

Thanks John.  The images you provided do help in trying to grasp the concept.  I'm sure there was much easy-to-follow verbiage that went along with the images in the Wiki.

I do have a version-21 installed that I can experiment with.  Any idea what the Faceter slider set to 100 replicates, in terms of Faceter Parameters options?

For me, one of the best ways of trying to get a grasp on this is to have Display/Draw_Form_Building_Edges on, zoom in real close on a curved 2D Profile and its 3D derivative(?), play around with the Faceter settings and see what happens.  Though, on my lacking system, I can easily enter too ambitious of a value that causes a Crash or Freeze.


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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 06, 2018, 11:24:47 AM
#3
A quick (and unscientific) test.

Exploding v20 cylinder with quality setting gives 73 polyline vertices about equal to normal tolerance of 5 degrees , exploding v21 with 100% quality gave 91 vertices which is about equal to normal tolerance of 4 degrees,  so going off that test v21 is set for slightly better quality from the slider, however, visually I'd say,  on my computer v20 looks better.

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* January 06, 2018, 03:29:29 PM
#4
So is there any reason to adjust all three of the Facet Parameters-- Surface Tolerance, Normal Tolerance, Maximum Edge Length?

Seems that for someone that doesn't really know what all this really means, seems like one could just set Normal Tolerance to the degree he prefers, and set the other two Parameters such that they be "ignored" (ST=-1 [per the On-line Help; I don't know if that's correct, I think 0 might be "ignore"]; MEL=0).  Or otherwise only use one of the Parameters, and set the other to be "ignored".
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 03:54:55 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 06, 2018, 03:42:51 PM
#5
I believe you should only change one of parameters and leave the other's as-is.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* January 06, 2018, 03:55:21 PM
#6
I believe you should only change one of parameters and leave the other's as-is.

That's a relief to read.  Makes the subject a lot less intimidating.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 06, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
#7
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 06, 2018, 05:04:26 PM
#8
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

No one seems to know. Really. Let us know if you find out.

Henry H

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* January 06, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
#9
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

TCExplorer says "Current requested relative accuracy for ACIS calculation"….

Igor Konyshev mentioned back in March 2011:
We had problem :
http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,2751.new.html#new
 
This problem is related to accuracy of computing ACIS body physical properties (surface area, center of gravity, etc.).
To fix this problem, it is necessary to set more calculation accuracy. But then there is the slow process of obtaining physical properties.
So, we added new ACIS property calculation accuracy in to Drawing.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* January 06, 2018, 09:48:18 PM
#10
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

TCExplorer says "Current requested relative accuracy for ACIS calculation"….

Igor Konyshev mentioned back in March 2011:
We had problem :
http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,2751.new.html#new
 
This problem is related to accuracy of computing ACIS body physical properties (surface area, center of gravity, etc.).
To fix this problem, it is necessary to set more calculation accuracy. But then there is the slow process of obtaining physical properties.
So, we added new ACIS property calculation accuracy in to Drawing.

I came across the same/similar answer in my bit of "research" on the Internet today.  Amongst other ACIS Users via other programs.  Though in tests in V21PP, I couldn't find proof of it; perhaps if I tried different Objects.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 07, 2018, 08:54:02 AM
#11
As Alvin sez, changing the Relative Accuracy seems to have no effect.

Henry H

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* January 07, 2018, 09:33:48 AM
#12
As Alvin sez, changing the Relative Accuracy seems to have no effect.

Henry H

I think I'll just get rid of it:
 ;)
[For those that stumble onto this post:  I was just playing around.  I didn't actually "get rid of it"; I just used some photo-editing to make it appear so in the screen-capture]
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:40:58 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 07, 2018, 10:22:59 AM
#13
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

Try this Alvin.

Draw a cylinder 3000 diam x 1000 high. (easy enough to calculate the volume),  try different relative accuracy but and each time look at the selection palette - property - Metrics, using the Show Item Physical Metrics button at the top of the selection palette.

When I try this, the best match to the correct volume is Relative Accuracy 0.1    other settings give different reading,  there were complaints a long while ago saying volume was not accurate enough, maybe this is a compromise between calculating the accuracy of ACIS facets and slowing things down with calculations many people won't require.

Just a thought.

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* January 07, 2018, 10:39:12 AM
#14
What does the ACIS Options "Relative Accuracy" field do?  It's ignored in the Help documentation.

Try this Alvin.

Draw a cylinder 3000 diam x 1000 high. (easy enough to calculate the volume),  try different relative accuracy but and each time look at the selection palette - property - Metrics, using the Show Item Physical Metrics button at the top of the selection palette.

When I try this, the best match to the correct volume is Relative Accuracy 0.1    other settings give different reading,  there were complaints a long while ago saying volume was not accurate enough, maybe this is a compromise between calculating the accuracy of ACIS facets and slowing things down with calculations many people won't require.

Just a thought.

Yes, I see the Volume and Moment of Inertias seeming to be more precise.
I would say that answers the question "What does the ACIS Options 'Relative Accuracy' field do?"  At least that seems to be its intent; I can't verify its accuracy.  I mean, why the value changes other than just the decimal point moving over when I change Relative Accuracy from .01 to .0001, I can't mathematically figure out.  Fundamental concepts that I don't know.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 07, 2018, 10:50:30 AM
#15
When I use Windows' Calculator to compute the volume of the 3000diaX1000high cylinder, it reports 7,068,583.4705770347865409476123789.

That number is equal to what TurboCAD reports when Relative Accuracy (RA)= .1

When RA is set to .0001, TurboCAD reports Volume to be 7068583262.025

I'd think that Windows' Calculator would have a very high precision value-- being that it is carrying the result to such an extreme decimal-place.
What do you guys think I'm missing?  What's more accurate, do you think?-- Windows' Calculator, or TC with RA=.0001.

Just for sport... and edumacation.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 11:04:12 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 07, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
#16
"Relative Accuracy" setting is useless for small objects. For example, TCad reports the volume of a 0.1" diameter sphere as .001 and the volume of a 0.01" diameter sphere as zero, no matter what Relative Accuracy setting I apply.

Henry H

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* January 07, 2018, 08:14:11 PM
#17
"Relative Accuracy" setting is useless for small objects. For example, TCad reports the volume of a 0.1" diameter sphere as .001 and the volume of a 0.01" diameter sphere as zero, no matter what Relative Accuracy setting I apply.

Henry H

Henry.
I get volume .004 under metrics/volume in SI palette with a 0.1 dia sphere

I get volume.000 with a ,01 dia sphere

Measurement tool volume reports 4.1888e -06 which is correct

Volume in SI palette seems to be limited .000

attached is a video displaying some of the property changes on a complex object when adjusting the Relative accuracy.

Keep an eye in the SI palette.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2016-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21(Best working version,IMHO) Using Lightworks for reliability/stability and testing redsdk, Anilab lab 5, Renditioner Pro V3. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* January 08, 2018, 08:14:53 AM
#18
"Relative Accuracy" setting is useless for small objects. For example, TCad reports the volume of a 0.1" diameter sphere as .001 and the volume of a 0.01" diameter sphere as zero, no matter what Relative Accuracy setting I apply.

Henry H

Henry.
I get volume .004 under metrics/volume in SI palette with a 0.1 dia sphere

I get volume.000 with a ,01 dia sphere

Measurement tool volume reports 4.1888e -06 which is correct

Volume in SI palette seems to be limited .000

attached is a video displaying some of the property changes on a complex object when adjusting the Relative accuracy.

Keep an eye in the SI palette.

Yeah, the Measurement tool does a much better job. Thanks, Dean.

Henry H

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