TurboCAD Forums

The Ultimate Resource for TurboCAD Knowledge

Register
 
When posting a problem be sure to include which version you are using.  Give as much information as possible.  If the problem is with a specific file be sure to attache it to your post.

Constraints and parametric parts
Read 2684 times
* December 26, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
I've literally invested several days into trying to get a parametric truss to work correctly. I dug up an old drawing that Brian Carter had done for me many years ago, worked through his instructions, found several forum threads, etc., with little success. Would someone be so kind as to either help me out a bit or confirm that I'm wasting my time? One problem that I'm having is to get a distance dimension to work on two lines after I've constrained them, such as the top and bottom chords of the truss in the attached drawing. I was able to get the distance dimension to work on the center web of the truss for some unknown reason. I can constrain the same parts in the exact same way from one side to the other, yet they will act differently. For instance, the overhangs in my attached drawing work differently from side to side. the one on the right works correctly, the one on the left does not. If you adjust the span of the truss, the left side stays stationary, while the right adjusts. This seems like it should be so simple. Especially at this point after taking the time to understand what I believe should be happening here. I know that I need more dimensional constraints in my drawing, but hoping someone can shed some light on why the distance dimension isn't working for me.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 26, 2017, 03:33:49 PM
#1
I decided to try doing half of the truss, or basically a mono truss. It works as I would expect it to. I suppose for my purposes, I could use this half truss and mirror it then create a group. To get passed the issue of the distance dimension, I drew a parallel line between the members such as top/bottom chords and web, constrained them, then used the parallel dimension. It seems as though this should work with an entire truss though. I have placed all of the entities that won't be visible after the variables are entered on the constraints layer.

*Edit: I can't get the bottom chord to simple extrude after assembling.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 01:58:26 PM by Kevin Mendenhall »

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 28, 2017, 02:17:33 AM
#2
For some reason I cant open your drawings.
I drew the parametric trusses I use a long time ago.
I never managed to get them to work with 3d - because compound profiles are a bit picky with changing angles.
I use a lot of invisible lines. A lot of geometrical constraints and a few dimensional constraints.
I started with the basic shape and then added rafters etc. If you zoom out I have tried to add steps.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 02:31:02 AM by nikkipollard »

Logged
Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* December 28, 2017, 11:28:35 AM
#3
I wonder if that is due to me using 2017.5. I was having a lot of crashes while editing the parametric truss so I installed the newest version I could find. Here it is saved as a 2017.0 file. I haven't looked at your drawing yet but will check it out in a few minutes.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 28, 2017, 11:43:37 AM
#4
Nikki, it looks like your truss is very similar to mine in a lot of ways. I had not thought of building a frame like that though, I'm going to experiment with that bit. The thing that I'm perplexed about is that I'm able to do a distance dimension on all the lines in your drawing that are parallel. Any idea why I can't get that to work in my drawing?

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 28, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
#5
Kevin
Your drawing is made in a Betaversion of TC, so Nikki cant open and look at it.
If you remake it in 2017 or earlier she can ;)

I have no problems with meassurement on them, your or Brian's

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 28, 2017, 02:00:05 PM
#6
I figured that may have been the issue, lol. So if I save back to 2017, is there still an issue opening? So you are able to do distance dimensions on my drawing? There must be a setting somewhere that is preventing me from being able to do a distance dim. Maybe a snap.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 28, 2017, 02:50:59 PM
#7
I figured that may have been the issue, lol. So if I save back to 2017, is there still an issue opening? So you are able to do distance dimensions on my drawing? There must be a setting somewhere that is preventing me from being able to do a distance dim. Maybe a snap.

I'm working in archaic version-20, so I can't open either of your Drawings.
But is it possible that the entity you are trying to Dimension constrain is a Polyline, not an individual Line?  That got me this morning for a while, as I am working on creating a simple Constrained "gable" truss.  -Alvin

Logged
Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 28, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
#8
I did not notice that you had already uploaded a v 2017
Anyway there is "some" fault's in it, when open i get a warning about Objects that will not work and asked if i want to save them in the drawing, i click yes and Attached is result after som changes, that can be because you use "Save As" 2017 instead of making a new in 2017
I dont do PP's, PPM's are much better ;)

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 28, 2017, 03:44:05 PM
#9
Torfinn,
What is the learning curve like to do PPM's? I have read a few threads about it and seems like I read that you need to know how to code. Is that correct?

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 28, 2017, 04:45:35 PM
#10
Hi Kevin

Nope, you dont need to know how to code at all, you only need to know how you want it to look like when drawing it and remember it is "always" calculated from 0,0.
It is 2D but we can use sweep/ extrude and Thickness to give it a thickness and by that get a 2.5 - 3D, later it is just to rotate and move correct way/ place and then we also can use the Z to move it up or Down.
If you look in some of mine examples there is a lot of "funny" names, that is just a identificator, if its apple or orange dosn't matter, as long as i know what it is for and i have give it a value that TC can use later when TC should draw or calculate something from it.
There are a restricted set of commands we can use, so sometimes we have to be creative to find a way to make it happen like we want.
Imagen you want to do something in Deluxe that have a command for it in Platinum, it is possible, just by a workaround.
Other than that it is just a tiny bit of simple Math.

I will make one example of M truss ( dont know the name of the truss you try to make :) and an old W truss i have in combo, then try to add some comment to explain what it is for/ do tomorrow.
Parameters in attached pic of W truss is the thing user can adjust before inserting or later by Selection Info palette.

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 29, 2017, 12:29:57 AM
#11
Hi Kevin I presume your problems with dimensioning have something to do with the geometry.
It is really easy to over constrain.( I try not to use auto constrain to avoid this. It does take longer but I find it less frustrating in the long run. )
Bear in mind that this truss is symmetrical. And you probably wouldn't need to dimension both sides.
I start with the basic frame because it easier to set up the constraints on a simple shape. - you can even test them before you move onto the next step.
I prefer geometrical constraints to dimensional constraints because I like to have as few parameters as possible. They are a pain to fill in every time you use the parametric part.



Logged
Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* December 29, 2017, 12:38:13 AM
#12
I have just had a look at your drawing. Changing the workplane of each line - individually seemed to fix the problem.
Moving and mirroring objects can do this.
You need to place everything on the same workplane before you start to constrain.

I changed the workplane of a few lines. added a midpoint constraint (note the midpoint constraint is new and doesn't seem to work with parametric parts) and some vertical constraints.
an equal length constraint to the eaves overhang
changed a few dimensions to check that everything worked.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 01:06:14 AM by nikkipollard »

Logged
Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* December 29, 2017, 01:59:05 AM
#13
Here is the W and M truss ppm
Download, unzip and move the ppm file to " My symbol " folder, normally at:
C:\Users\YOUR USERNAME\Documents\TurboCAD 2017 Professional x64\Symbols\My Symbols

If TC is open, go in to Library palette>> My Symbols folder, rigth click and select "Reload", then there should turn up a question mark, Select it and rigth click and click on "Update Thumbnails ...", then Select the view you want Down in left corner, make sure it is say for selected category or selected items, else TC will make it for all symbols inside TC and there are more than 2000 of them :), then click on Create and the preview will show instead of the questionmark.
Select it and open the property below, change some of the parameters if you want and the click on insert or drag it in to drawing area, NB!! like Block, you will need to be in wireframe.
If you want to change something after inserting, select it and open Selection Info palette, open Parameters and you can change everything there as well.

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 29, 2017, 05:13:48 AM
#14
Nikki,
Thank you for that insight. I had tried several times to select the entire truss and "place on workplane", but the option was grayed out. I had wrongfully assumed that constraining must place everything on the workplane. It never occured to me to select each line individually to ensure that they were on the correct plane. I had used several methods to change the height of the truss, one was an angular dimension, one was the center line as Brian used, and the third was an "L"shaped line with the vertical line representing the rise, and the horizontal as the run. i.e. 5/12 pitch. I'm going to experiment with these, the center line is my least favorite due to the fact that it forces you to do the math rather than just entering a number. I very much appreciate the help!

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 29, 2017, 05:22:14 AM
#15
Torfinn,
Thank you, I have to run out to an appointment but I am going to spend some time on your method this afternoon. I appreciate all the help from you and the others in the forum. I have drafted in 2D for a long time but just made the leap into 3D architectural drafting in the last 9 months. I'm looking forward to diving into the PPM thing.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 29, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
#16
Torfinn,
Excuse the terminology, but that's badass! I must learn how to do this. I just finished the other truss that I have been working on and thanks to Nikki's suggestions have been able to get that working perfectly. The only thing is (and I think it was stated in another thread) that it doesn't render even though I was able to get it to extrude.

How do I learn how to build parts like this? The reason that I have been working so hard on this is that I have been using the drafting pallet to create building sections but they don't look great with the 3D Roof, I need to be able to create sections with multiple trusses, joists, etc.




Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 29, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
#17
Yes, it is funny to work with ppm, there is a section for it in the help, but basically you will need to figure out how the commands work by yourself.
In ppm section there is a link to SD, another ppm editor and in there you will find better example on how the different commands work and if you make it in TC you can open the ppm in SD and it will explaine better what if there is some fault in it too.
TC let you know the line the fault is on, SD tell line and what
In example, 1 legal command in TC ppm is **, but now place as far as i have seen is it explained what it do or how it work, i learn from SD that it is multiply x times, , so 5**10 is 5 in power of ten, only takes 4 years before i see it in SD ;)
Another thing is that if you explode all the Groups inside the ppm, it is possible to use the databasetool for get a material list from it (BOM)
When you adjust the ppm to fit inside a TC house, it do impress customers when you close normal architect objects and the PPM stand inside it, "eye candy" one woman call it some years ago, i have adobted that word :)

You cant get the PP to render because the example is only made of single lines, they are not a closed profile, so you only see the edges of the profile, there is nothing in between.
A workaround is to use the Pickpoint Hatch inside it, make a separate layer for it, after finish Hatch, Select it by layer, drag it away from PP, explode 1 time, delete the solid hatch( polyline) and you are left with an closed polyline that can be extruded.
But it is possible to make it surfase of it i believe, as think to remember Dean did that in another tread.

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 29, 2017, 02:27:02 PM
#18
I just learned of SD a few days ago and I am about to download. Did you create your trusses in that program?

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 29, 2017, 02:43:03 PM
#19
Hi Kevin

No, i made the ppm in TC

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 29, 2017, 03:41:30 PM
#20
I am using your script and editing it to become familiar with what controls what. I hope that's okay. I don't want to steal your hard work but trying to wrap my brain around this. I see you added a bunch of notes so I assume that's kind of what you had in mind.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 29, 2017, 03:51:40 PM
#21
Hi Kevin

That's correct, make a copy and play with it was the ide'a.
I dont sell that one anyway, thats why i put it out here, but i do use the W in a 1 story house where i can switch between W - A and ordinary rafter roof.

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 29, 2017, 05:14:46 PM
#22
I'm fascinated with this. I very much appreciate the help!

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 30, 2017, 05:10:49 AM
#23
Torfinn,
Is there a way to draw a part such as the truss that I have been working on and convert it, or generate a script from the drawing itself? Your script for instance, was that all written by hand or was there a portion of it that was generated by TC?

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 30, 2017, 05:27:59 AM
#24
Hi Kevin

No, you have to write everything yourself.
Ppm cant collect info from the drawing, it can only do ( output ) what you already have "told" in the script.

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 30, 2017, 05:47:10 AM
#25
That's too bad. I looks like this may be a bit of a process. Even though I have been able to manipulate your script a little bit, I definitely want the knowledge to be able to create from scratch. I have been looking through the parametric part scripting section in the manual but looks like I have a lot of ground to cover. I'm sure it's like anything else, it's easy once you know how.

Logged
TurboCAD Pro Platinum 2017.5 64-bit version 24.5 build 57.4. Windows 10 Home - Intel Core i3-700 CPU @ 3.90 GHz - 64-bit OS, x64 based processor


* December 30, 2017, 06:56:14 AM
#26
Yes, there is a learningcurve like everything else and it will be more easy after doing some ppm's :)
You can start with going true the example in Help section, at least the most basic of them, then you will get a better understanding of how ppm want it to be.
The most important is to remember to save the ppm often, as it do have big effect on TC and there was a time i call myself
sir crashalot :), but that was most of the time because i click wrong, instead of save i click run before it was ready and poff, TC go down

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 30, 2017, 10:04:03 AM
#27
Hey Old, Buddy :)

Would you believe this is a window  ;D

Logged
"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* December 30, 2017, 11:05:51 AM
#28
Hei gamle ørn :)

That's pretty slick :)
But not usable for me, as i see 3 parts in the "truss" thickness, i remember i did some test with minus thickness/ width some time back when a guy want some windows in a 2 component sandwich wall, or something like that, i was not happy with the result myself so i did not go further on with it.
But still, a very nice window :)

Torfinn

Logged
V18, V19, V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17/ 18 Pro. Platinum
Deluxe V20, V21, 2015/ 16/ 17
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Home Premium 64 bit, 32 GB
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 780m, 1 GB


* December 30, 2017, 12:34:09 PM
#29
"as i see 3 parts in the "truss" thickness"

Hey Old Buddy,
they were just lines  ;D

I can adjust window HT and W and window frame depth/width
The truss web is a window block that can also be adjusted.
The window block needs a slight adjustment after changing the window HT or W.
The entire object is a block with all the window data,window block and profile.

Logged
"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100