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Problem with relative coordinates
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* December 20, 2017, 03:27:13 PM
Again I am going through an exercise in my learning tutorials.  The session involves placing a roof on walls using relative coordinates. I realize there are many other methods of doing this task but I would like to know what in the heck I am doing wrong here.
The exercise calls for some house walls to be drawn, then relocating the relative origin to one of the corners of the house.  The roof is then to be located on the walls by selecting a wall vertex, tabbing to the coordinate fields and inputting the wall height in the "Z" field.  This seems to work well for the first vertex in that I can verify that it is indeed on the top of the wall by looking at the drawing in various isometric views.  Now to the second wall vertex, once selected all appears well as the fields in the "X" and "Y" fields are correct.  Entering the wall height in the "Z" field for the second has resulted in a variety of errors, a snap to the original bottom vertex, a snap to the correct wall vertex but on the bottom of the wall or on occasion a snap to the correct position on the top of the wall.  Regardless of what happens on the second location, the third vertex always starts drawing the roof on the bottom of the wall.  I have tried both 2D and 3D selectors with various settings and nothing to date has worked or at least located the roof on the top of the walls. I have tried locking the height of the walls in the "Z" field but no success.  Of course it is easy to draw the roof on top by using a work plane but that is not the exercise.

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


December 21, 2017, 05:41:14 AM
#1
I can see your frustration. Can you please share your file so we can visualize what you are trying to explain.

~Khadija

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* December 21, 2017, 03:17:01 PM
#2
The tutorial has you draw a more complicated house but I have attached a very simple house with no details other than walls which are 200 mm wide, 2000 mm high.  The "house" is 6000 mm square.  I am using relative coordinates and have relocated the origin to one of the corners.  If you cursor over the four outside vertexes of the house the x and y fields are  0,0  0,6000  6000,6000  6000,0.  I have started the roof at the origin and you can see that the tool has created a vertex at the top of the wall.  Now if you try and finish the roof by going to the next corner say 0,6000 and shift tab and then tab over to the z field, enter 2000 and hit enter and do the same for the other two corners and "finish" to create the roof.  you will find that the roof has been created at the base of the wall not on top where it should be.
Thanks for you interest.

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 21, 2017, 03:35:51 PM
#3
Hmmm.  I just looked at the file I posted and the roof tool has not created the first vertex, I assume that because I had not finished with the roof tool when I saved the file none of the roof actions were saved.  To make this file look like mine, set coordinates to relative and relocate the origin to one of the outside corners then start the roof tool and try and create it on the top of the walls by shift tabbing and tab, tab to the z field input the wall height 2000 and do this for all four corners and hit finish.  I realize that there are other ways and much easier to create a roof on the top of the walls but this was an exercise in using relative coordinates.
Again, thanks

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 21, 2017, 09:49:04 PM
#4
I don't know which exercise you are using but check that you haven't missed a step. Presuming you are using the roof tool,as far as I know, you have to change the workplane first with the roof tool. (or you can move the roof up in the z direction afterwards.
That is the way the roof tool works, because all the vertices on a normal roof have to be on the same workplane. Ie the eaves height is the same all the way round.
If your complicated roof has different eaves heights then you would need to convert the roof to roof slabs and move, the relevant slabs and then edit the slabs using the roof slab tools.

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* December 23, 2017, 01:49:03 PM
#5
Further to my relative coordinate exercise "Drawing a roof on walls using relative coordinates"

I have attempted to post attachments to demonstrate the problem but they are always deleted when I post.  This is another attempt.  The attachment should be a word document outlining the steps of the exercise.  I have also copied the attachment in the body of this post unfortunately this removes the drawings.

Don

o   In this Task
o   Associated Tasks
o   Before you Start
o   Take Note
o   Animation
 In this Task
o   A roof will be drawn by identifying the corner vertices of the exterior walls
o   The extended ortho will be used to snap to projected vertices on walls to exclude.
o   A Z coordinate will be used when inputting spatial information.
Drawing the Roof   This tool creates a roof by defining each vertex of the walls. Specific walls can be selected, using the Roof by Wall option.When using the Roof tool, the finished roof will be drawn at the base of the walls. To prevent this, a Z coordinate is input to draw the roof at an elevation
 Select Modes > Coord System > Relative, then select Relocate Origin. Position the origin on the vertex shown below. This point is now set as 0,0,0. Use Relocate Origin to position the origin on the vertex shown by the arrow Right click onto the Roof tool shown above and set the roof thickness to 30, the slope to 30° and the overhang to 300. When these parameters are set, click OK, then left click onto the Roof tool.Make sure the Vertex and Extended snaps are activated. The Magnetic and Auxiliary Lines should also be activated.Position the cursor over the vertex where the origin is located until the horizontal and vertical auxiliary lines are displayed,shown below. DO NOT LEFT CLICK.  Position cursor over origin vertex until auxiliary lines are displayed By observing the Coordinate fields, the X, Y and Z fields all reflect a coordinate position of 0,0,0. Use the SHIFT TAB key to access the Z field and input 2700, shown below. Press enter after inputting 2700.  Position the cursor over the vertex shown below, no left click, then use SHIFT TAB to access the coordinate fields. The X field is 0, the Y field is -7450. Input 2700 into the Z field and press enter. Repeat this, positioning the cursor on the vertex shown below. Use SHIFT TAB to input 2700 into the Z field.  Use the Extended Ortho to project to the outer edge of the wall, the point shown below.  Click to view location in full drawing Continue with this method by positioning the cursor over the lower right outer vertex. SHIFT TAB to access the coordinate fields and input 2700.Lastly, position the cursor over the top right outer vertex and use SHIFT TAB to access the coordinate fields and input 2700.Select Finish.The result is shown below in Plan view. The walls, doors and windows are temporarily shaded out. Roof shown in Plan view The roof, when viewed from an isometric angle is seated on the top of the walls, shown below. Viewed from an isometric viewpoint, roof is seated on top vertex Click to view the roof from different anglesIsometric South East Front Elevation Left Elevation



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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 23, 2017, 03:37:20 PM
#6
Further to my relative coordinate exercise "Drawing a roof on walls using relative coordinates"

I have attempted to post attachments to demonstrate the problem but they are always deleted when I post.  This is another attempt.  The attachment should be a word document outlining the steps of the exercise.  I have also copied the attachment in the body of this post unfortunately this removes the drawings.

Don
...

Whoever wrote that tutorial exercise is describing a much-more-than-required complicated way of inserting a Roof than is necessary.

But I understand that you want to work through the exercise, just for education sake.


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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 04:05:41 PM
#7
I would say that most TurboCAD Users do not use the Relative Coordinates mode.  You probably won't either, once you get going in TurboCAD.  Most TurboCAD Users use the Absolute Coordinates mode.
I guess there are times when it's beneficial to use the Relative Coordinates mode; or it could probably be used by one as their preferred mode if that's all they're used to.

_______
That being said, let's get you through whatever problem you are having with this Relative Coordinates use exercise.  We won't even get into the easier and quicker methods of inserting Roof on Walls.

First question Don:  When you relocate the Relative Coordinates Origin, are you placing that origin at the top of the 2000mm tall Wall, or the bottom?

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 06:00:08 PM
#8
In the attached .gif video (below, click on the thumbnail to start the non-audio video; alternatively, right-click on it and select "Open in New Tab", so that to ensure you are seeing the full view-- if your screen is smaller than the video's), I attempt to show using Relative Coordinates mode to draw a Roof.  I used the 6000x6000x2000 Walls size you previously described Don.

>Workplane is the plain old "Workplane by World".
>At the start of the video, the Relative Coordinates Origin is at the World (Absolute) Coordinates 0,0,0.
>We move to an Isometric SW view.

>I relocate the Relative Coordinates Origin to the bottom/left Wall outside corner-- the SouthWest bottom corner of the Walls.

>I activate the Roof Tool.
>With the Running Snap "Vertex" active, I hover my cursor over that bottom/left vertex.  The Coordinate Fields show X=0,Y=0,Z=0.  I Shift+Tab into those fields and enter X=0,Y=0,Z=2000 (Tabbing from the X, to the Y, then the Z fields).

>I am going to specify the remaining three of the Roof points in a clockwise direction.

>With the first Roof point specified, I move my cursor to the NorthWest vertex of the Walls (this is not necessary, but I am trying to keep closely to what the author had done in the tutorial exercise you posted; I could just leave my hand off the mouse and Shift+Tab to get into the Coordinate Fields); Shift+Tab into the Coordinate Fields and enter X=0,Y=6000,Z=2000.
>I move the cursor to the NorthEast vertex of the Walls (again... not necessary); Shift+Tab into the Coordinate Fields and enter X=6000,Y=6000,Z=2000.
>I move the cursor to the SouthEast vertex of the walls; Shift+Tab into the Coordinate Fields and enter X=6000,Y=0,Z=2000.
>I click "Finish" (inserting Roof)

>I activate Hidden Line Render
>I click on the Camera Target=Drawing Center command
>Dynamic Examine around a bit

___________
Unlike what the tutorial author specified, I did not use "Extended Ortho" nor "Always show Auxiliary Lines".  I do not believe this to be necessary; and would have just cluttered up the video I was trying to make.  Plus, using these Drawing Aids are not my personal preference/habit.

___________
For Don and others reading:  Reminder-- This is not meant to be an example of a good, quick, easy way of inserting a Roof.  It's meant to be an example of using the Relative Coordinates mode.

-Alvin
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 06:04:00 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 07:40:43 PM
#9
Hi Alvin
Thanks for you detailed response.
To answer you question
"When you relocate the Relative Coordinates Origin, are you placing that origin at the top of the 2000mm tall Wall, or the bottom?"
The origin is located on the bottom of the wall. (just like you did).
I am still trying to get you GIF file to play.
When I open your attached file Create Roof_1.TCW, the roof is on the bottom of the walls not on top.  What the heck?  I am using
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum.
Don

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 23, 2017, 07:47:12 PM
#10
...
The origin is located on the bottom of the wall. (just like you did).
I am still trying to get you GIF file to play.
...

Just left-click on the .gif file title "Relative Coordinates Draw Roof -1.gif".  Then when your Internet Browser gives you the option, select Save As..., then download to somewhere on your system.  Then, in your system, outside of this Forum, double-click or whatever on that file to open it in your default image viewer.

Maybe just click here might work.


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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 07:50:25 PM
#11
...
When I open your attached file Create Roof_1.TCW, the roof is on the bottom of the walls not on top.  What the heck?  I am using
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum.
Don

That's weird.  Please upload/attach a screen-capture of what my file looks like in SouthWest Isometric View when opened in your version-2017.  Sometimes it's just a matter of our brain's/vision-center's perception of what is "top" and what is "bottom".

_______
Perhaps others with 2017 can corroborate that the same thing occurs when opening my version-20-created file in version-2017.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 07:52:22 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 07:57:06 PM
#12
Hi Alvin

I did get the GIF to play, thanks.

Screen capture attached.  Seems to be on the bottom on my TurboCad 2017.
Hmmmm.

Thanks

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 23, 2017, 07:58:19 PM
#13
Hi Alvin

I did get the GIF to play, thanks.

Screen capture attached.  Seems to be on the bottom on my TurboCad 2017.
Hmmmm.

Thanks
This time I will attach the file.

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 23, 2017, 08:02:55 PM
#14
Hi Alvin

I did get the GIF to play, thanks.

Screen capture attached.  Seems to be on the bottom on my TurboCad 2017.
Hmmmm.

Thanks
This time I will attach the file.


Okay.  I believe ya.  Someone(s) with 2017 will have to weigh in here on what's going on with that:   Why-- when my version-20-created file, with the Roof on top of the Walls, has the Roof on the bottom of the Walls when opened in your version-2017.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 08:19:53 PM
#15
Hi Alvin
Yes lets see what other 2017 users report.  Having watched you GIF, I see some of the same actions as you show.  If I view the walls in an isometric view as I attempt to draw the roof, the first corner always works as it should, ie the tool snaps to the top corner of the wall, I can verify this by changing the isometric view.  When I try the second corner a varitey of responses has occured, (seems to be random)
the tool has snapped to the proper location on the top of the second corner but sometimes to the bottom and I don't know how, occasionally to the bottom of the first corner.  The third corner always is to the bottom of the third corner and of course you can see the roof starting to be drawn on the bottom of the wall.

You know that old saying, trying the same thing but expecting different results, must be crazy.
Thanks again and the best of the season.
Don

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 23, 2017, 08:26:15 PM
#16
Hi Alvin
Yes lets see what other 2017 users report.  Having watched you GIF, I see some of the same actions as you show.  If I view the walls in an isometric view as I attempt to draw the roof, the first corner always works as it should, ie the tool snaps to the top corner of the wall, I can verify this by changing the isometric view.  When I try the second corner a varitey of responses has occured, (seems to be random)
the tool has snapped to the proper location on the top of the second corner but sometimes to the bottom and I don't know how, occasionally to the bottom of the first corner.  The third corner always is to the bottom of the third corner and of course you can see the roof starting to be drawn on the bottom of the wall.

You know that old saying, trying the same thing but expecting different results, must be crazy.
Thanks again and the best of the season.
Don

Quick question Don, just because it's not quite clear:  For the second and third corners, are you entering values into the Coordinate Fields?...  or are you relying on the Running Vertex Snap?

Using Relative Coordinates mode, and keeping the active Workplane to be other than at the top of the Walls, seems we have to manually enter-- type in-- the values in the Coordinate Fields-- particularly the Z field, in this scenario.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 08:28:07 PM
#17
The tutorial has you draw a more complicated house but I have attached a very simple house with no details other than walls which are 200 mm wide, 2000 mm high.  The "house" is 6000 mm square.  I am using relative coordinates and have relocated the origin to one of the corners.  If you cursor over the four outside vertexes of the house the x and y fields are  0,0  0,6000  6000,6000  6000,0.  I have started the roof at the origin and you can see that the tool has created a vertex at the top of the wall.  Now if you try and finish the roof by going to the next corner say 0,6000 and shift tab and then tab over to the z field, enter 2000 and hit enter and do the same for the other two corners and "finish" to create the roof.  you will find that the roof has been created at the base of the wall not on top where it should be.
Thanks for you interest.

Confirm,
I'd say it's a Bug or a Quirk.
I set the origin at the top of the wall
I see the red dot at the top of the wall.
I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter
The roof starts at the base.

also, The red dot that represents the origin blinks when zooming while in Redsdk mode.
Display is much better in GDI mode.
Add it to the many Redstuff Quirks. ;D
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 08:31:34 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2016-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21(Best working version,IMHO) Using Lightworks for reliability/stability and testing redsdk, Anilab lab 5, Renditioner Pro V3. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* December 23, 2017, 08:33:01 PM
#18
The tutorial has you draw a more complicated house but I have attached a very simple house with no details other than walls which are 200 mm wide, 2000 mm high.  The "house" is 6000 mm square.  I am using relative coordinates and have relocated the origin to one of the corners.  If you cursor over the four outside vertexes of the house the x and y fields are  0,0  0,6000  6000,6000  6000,0.  I have started the roof at the origin and you can see that the tool has created a vertex at the top of the wall.  Now if you try and finish the roof by going to the next corner say 0,6000 and shift tab and then tab over to the z field, enter 2000 and hit enter and do the same for the other two corners and "finish" to create the roof.  you will find that the roof has been created at the base of the wall not on top where it should be.
Thanks for you interest.
...
I set the origin at the top of the wall
I see the red dot at the top of the wall.
I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter
The roof starts at the base.

...

RE:  "I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter"

What is showing-- or what do you type into-- the Z coordinate field when you hit Enter?
And, out of curiosity, what is the Z location of your active Workplane?

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 08:51:16 PM
#19
The tutorial has you draw a more complicated house but I have attached a very simple house with no details other than walls which are 200 mm wide, 2000 mm high.  The "house" is 6000 mm square.  I am using relative coordinates and have relocated the origin to one of the corners.  If you cursor over the four outside vertexes of the house the x and y fields are  0,0  0,6000  6000,6000  6000,0.  I have started the roof at the origin and you can see that the tool has created a vertex at the top of the wall.  Now if you try and finish the roof by going to the next corner say 0,6000 and shift tab and then tab over to the z field, enter 2000 and hit enter and do the same for the other two corners and "finish" to create the roof.  you will find that the roof has been created at the base of the wall not on top where it should be.
Thanks for you interest.
...
I set the origin at the top of the wall
I see the red dot at the top of the wall.
I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter
The roof starts at the base.

...

RE:  "I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter"

What is showing-- or what do you type into-- the Z coordinate field when you hit Enter?
And, out of curiosity, what is the Z location of your active Workplane?

Ha!
It's a nasty bug.
The Z field always displays the wall's Ht in a negative value (screwy) even though the red dot is at the top of the wall, I mean I can see it.  :P
So if I type in the correct Z coord the start of the roof is that distance above the top of the wall.
I'm confused  ;D
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 08:53:05 PM by Dean »

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2016-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21(Best working version,IMHO) Using Lightworks for reliability/stability and testing redsdk, Anilab lab 5, Renditioner Pro V3. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* December 23, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
#20
...
...
I set the origin at the top of the wall
I see the red dot at the top of the wall.
I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter
The roof starts at the base.

...

RE:  "I activate the roof tool hit shift+Tab and type in 0 in the X and Y field hit enter"

What is showing-- or what do you type into-- the Z coordinate field when you hit Enter?
And, out of curiosity, what is the Z location of your active Workplane?

Ha!
It's a nasty bug.
The Z field always displays the wall's Ht in a negative value (screwy) even though the red dot is at the top of the wall, I mean I can see it.  :P
So if I type in the correct Z coord the start of the roof is that distance above the top of the wall.
I'm confused  ;D

RE:  "So if I type in the correct Z coord the start of the roof is that distance above the top of the wall."

And the "correct Z coord" that you are entering is 0?  (Since the Relative Coordinates Origin is at the top of the Walls)


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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 09:06:50 PM
#21
I suspect someone saw Alvin's way of doing this as ‘wrong’ and corrected that beneficial BUG. For some reason, TurboCAD has always seen a Roof as a 2D object, not 3D. I guess they want people to use the WorkPlane palette. When using the palette, you shouldn't get a Grid shift; as you can zero out the X & Y parameters.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* December 23, 2017, 09:18:17 PM
#22
I suspect someone saw Alvin's way of doing this as ‘wrong’ and corrected that beneficial BUG. For some reason, TurboCAD has always seen a Roof as a 2D object, not 3D. I guess they want people to use the WorkPlane palette. When using the palette, you shouldn't get a Grid shift; as you can zero out the X & Y parameters.

? ???

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 09:21:29 PM
#23
Not you personally, just that particular method.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* December 23, 2017, 09:28:33 PM
#24
Not you personally, just that particular method.

Hi John.  I meant that I didn't comprehend what you posted.  Okay...  now re-reading your Post, I see what you meant.  You meant that they "corrected" this between versions 20 and 2017.

Fun stuff available in 20 then, (not available in 2017, I guess)... next Post.
  not so fun... causes Crashes :P
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 09:47:00 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 09:43:01 PM
#25
So, when you guys-- Dean and John-- open my version-20 file ("Create Roof -1"; Reply #9) in version-2017, you get the same thing Don did... the Roof is at the bottom of the Walls, not at the Top, as I drew/left it?
-Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 23, 2017, 10:03:26 PM
#26
I opened V20, drew 4 walls with a 120" height, then drew the roof (following your example) fill in the X & Y coordinates with their values and the greyed-out Z-coordinate field set to 120). Roof shows up on top (120") in Version 20, but not in Version 24.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* December 23, 2017, 10:08:14 PM
#27
I opened V20, drew 4 walls with a 120" height, then drew the roof (following your example) fill in the X & Y coordinates with their values and the greyed-out Z-coordinate field set to 120). Roof shows up on top (120") in Version 20, but not in Version 24.

Okey-doke.  Then we can surmise-- for DJATCH Don's interest-- that the tutorial he is working with is not written with 2017 in mind... at least not in reference to using Relative Coordinates mode and input when inserting a Roof.

Better to practice using Relative Coordinates mode with some other Tool.
I would say the 3D Polyline Tool-- using a thick Pen Width and distinctive color-- would be the best Tool to practice using Relative Coordinates mode utilizing varying Z values.
Also-- Need to keep in mind the "Fixed Relative Origin" option in Options/Advanced_Preferences, and experiment with it both on and off.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 08:35:05 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* December 24, 2017, 12:18:39 PM
#28
Hello to everyone who gave suggestions.  Must try and answer your questions before we go out for big family dinner.

From Alvin
Quick question Don, just because it's not quite clear:  For the second and third corners, are you entering values into the Coordinate Fields?...  or are you relying on the Running Vertex Snap?
Using Relative Coordinates mode, and keeping the active Workplane to be other than at the top of the Walls, seems we have to manually enter-- type in-- the values in the Coordinate Fields-- particularly the Z field, in this scenario.

Don - Just tried entering values for all fields but no difference roof still on bottom. I had been relying on the Running Vertex Snap.

From Dean - I'd say it's a Bug or a Quirk. Don - Agreed.

From Alvin - What is showing-- or what do you type into-- the Z coordinate field when you hit Enter?
And, out of curiosity, what is the Z location of your active Workplane?
Don - The Z field shows "0" and I enter 2000 and hit enter.  The Z location is "0".

From Dean - The Z field always displays the wall's Ht in a negative value (screwy) even though the red dot is at the top of the wall, I mean I can see it.  So if I type in the correct Z coord the start of the roof is that distance above the top of the wall.

Don - It makes sense that the "Z" field is showing -2000 when you cursor over the corner below the origin as the cursor is 2000 mm below the origin.  Now if you start the roof tool from there and enter "0" into the "Z" field the tool snaps to the top of the wall. This almost makes you think you are on the road to success. Cursor over the second corner of the house, bottom of wall and enter "0" for "Z" and hit enter and the tool now shows two lines both attached to the top of the wall.  Do the third corner the same way and the roof starts to draw at the bottom of the wall.

From Alvin - And the "correct Z coord" that you are entering is 0?  (Since the Relative Coordinates Origin is at the top of the Walls)
Don - Agreed.

Don - The tutorial I am using came bundled with my 2017 and is actually called "TurboCad 2D training 2017"

From Alvin - I would say the 3D Polyline Tool-- using a thick Pen Width and distinctive color-- would be the best Tool to practice using Relative Coordinates mode utilizing varying Z values.

Don - With Fixed Relative Origin selected it works just fine to draw above or below the workplane with 3D polyline.  With the Origin not "Fixed" the orgin moves to the last point used by what ever tool is being used

I think we should concider this issue closed.  The Tutorial just doesn't work as advertized and if you want to draw a roof in 2017 try another method such as moving the workplane to the top of the walls.

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D Hatch
intermittent TurboCad user
TurboCad 2017 Pro Platinum: both 32/64 bits: Windows 10 Home: Intel i5 CPU @ 3,26 GHz:
8 GB ram: AMD Radeon HD 5700: Previous used version 11 and 17.2 Professional:


* December 24, 2017, 09:27:01 PM
#29
re: …The Tutorial just doesn't work as advertised and if you want to draw a roof in 2017 try another method…

In Platinum 2017, try the "Add Roof By Walls" tool. No need to create a workplane. It will place the roof atop the selected walls.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015, 2016, 2017
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit