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Optimising rendering in TC 2017
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* October 13, 2017, 11:10:23 AM
Hi,  I've recently upgraded to TC 2017 from TC19. I imported some of my 3D drawings but the rendering (both using REDSDK I think?) doesn't look as good. I have a pretty old ATI Radeon HD5700 graphics board. I don't really know what I'm doing so a bit of help in coming up with a basic set of REDSDK settings would be great. I have right clicked on the camera properties icons and have messed about with the quality and advanced settings (Green and gold teacups) but am somewhat confused in terms of what to select for the various options (category, render style, foreground wireframe etc etc).  My lighting set up maybe isn't optimal either. The results are useable but I could do with a suggested starting point. All a bit vague but hopefuly someone can help
Thanks, Keith
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:12:47 AM by emersok »

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* October 13, 2017, 12:09:43 PM
#1
Hi,  any chance of a posting a sample file for someone to check or at very least some screenshots.

There are quite a few things that affect rendering, for example, if you rendered using the Lightworks engine in v19 and are now using the RedSDK engine (didn't purchase the lightworks plug-in) things will look a bit different, drawings are easily affected by changes in Lights / luminance, is there a render scene environment selected  is you 2017 deluxe or pro (deluxe doesn't have advanced render style).

Note - if you can post a file and it has any 'wrapped' materials for example a sphere with an image of the earth wrapped on it,  you would need to include the image also.

A material Category is similar to a folder, think of it as being an organiser each category contains a specific set of materials, i.e. metals, woods, etc.   You will also find a category of 'Active drawing' this is a temporary folder which TC uses to store materials for the current drawing (it didn't exist in v19),  it keeps a separate list which is saved with the drawing, and it allows playing around with materials without affecting master TC materials,   

Foreground wireframe - the non-renderable if ticked shows any 2D stuff in the 3D render for example text (though in a RedSDK render it will always be black),  with Renderable ticked it shows the wireframe of any 3D objects in the render, for example it can render a realistic block of wood and include a black outlines along its edges.

Render style,  is a big subject with lots of settings, it basically affects the quality of the render,  but I'll have to leave that explanation to the likes of Darrel, Dean and Majo.

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October 14, 2017, 05:13:39 AM
#2
Hi,  I've recently upgraded to TC 2017 from TC19. I imported some of my 3D drawings but the rendering (both using REDSDK I think?) doesn't look as good. I have a pretty old ATI Radeon HD5700 graphics board. I don't really know what I'm doing so a bit of help in coming up with a basic set of REDSDK settings would be great. I have right clicked on the camera properties icons and have messed about with the quality and advanced settings (Green and gold teacups) but am somewhat confused in terms of what to select for the various options (category, render style, foreground wireframe etc etc).  My lighting set up maybe isn't optimal either. The results are useable but I could do with a suggested starting point. All a bit vague but hopefuly someone can help
Thanks, Keith

As Andy suggested, please attach some screenshots and a drawing.  Ideally in the ePack so we get any textures that you may have used which get zipped up with the *.tcw drawing etc.
Keeping lighting simple and avoiding using the standard point , ambient and spot lights as these are not the best for photo realistic renders.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 05:17:50 AM by Darrel Durose »

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Daz...
V2017 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 24GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


* October 14, 2017, 10:34:01 AM
#3
Hi,
Thanks for the rapid responses. I've attached zip files from TC19 and TC2017 for the same drawing. Hopefully the ePack bit has worked. The TC2017 doesn't have some of the materials I created for the TC19 version, e.g. the plain yellow plastic etc.
I did have a go at creating these by copying some of the existing materials but hopefully the attachments will give you some idea. I'm a bit surprised that 2017 didn't pick up the metal materials used for the axles etc.
Thanks again, Keith

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* October 14, 2017, 01:22:33 PM
#4
Keith,

It looks to me like the materials in v19 were using Lightworks, One question - do you have the Lightworks Plug-in for 2017.

If you are using RedSDK in 2017, then you 'probably' need to replace the materials,  - but you have an added problem, some of the  original materials were applied as facet materials, meaning that each face of an object has a material applied to it (ever if its the same material), rather than a single material applied to the object as a whole.

its not difficult to sort out, but if your using Lightworks in 2017 some else will have to test as I don't use Lightworks.

Andy

## Edit ## added info on facet editing here ## End edit ##
 
   
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 03:38:18 PM by Andy H »

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October 14, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
#5
Managed to render it by reassigning (overwriting from the TC Database) materials in RedSDK:

Is this any good for you?

Nice modelling by the way  ;)
 

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Daz...
V2017 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 24GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


* October 14, 2017, 03:36:23 PM
#6
Managed to render it by reassigning (overwriting from the TC Database) materials in RedSDK:

Hi Darrel, can you elaborate please.

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October 14, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
#7
Hi Andy

Yeah, I could not "Add RedSDK Material" from the Lightworks only ones... not sure if this is a new bug?

So I just double clicked on the TC Database materials with the same names to "replace" the ones in the active drawing material list. I could then edit them...

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Daz...
V2017 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 24GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


* October 14, 2017, 04:07:04 PM
#8
Thanks Darrel 

When I look at the active drawing area, although it shows in the facet editor, I don't have anything in the material palette nor the render manager, Ah well  :).

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* October 15, 2017, 04:14:17 AM
#9
Hi,
Thanks to both of you. Yes the render looks really good!
I'm still struggling to make it work with my set up.
Firstly, I don't have the lightworks plug-in for 2017. I think that it is about another £60. What are your views about RED SDK vs Lightworks?  I'm happy with the render Darrel uploaded, RED SDK ? I'm also struggling to find the materials files for either of the programmes. I found the jpg files for the TC19 materials I added but not the .mat ones which I think I need.
In TC2017, if I drag and drop a material onto a surface (I used to do this in TC19) or select the material for a part in the the properties dialogue, then select the quality or advanced render icon (green or gold teacups) nothing happens and those icons don't appear selected ? Where do I find TC Database materials? Also in TC 19 I would copy a material and then edit its properties to change the colour. Can I do this in TC 2017
BTW, thanks for the compliment regarding the model. It gives me hope! Regards, Keith

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* October 15, 2017, 10:04:12 AM
#10
re: …Where do I find TC Database materials? Also in TC 19 I would copy a material and then edit its properties to change the colour. Can I do this in TC 2017?

In the Materials palette, go to the beginning of the "Category' dropdown list. It should say "Active Drawing" along with the drawing name. These are the materials in your drawing and the ones that you will edit. Their settings reside in the drawing only. You can use "Copy selection to TC Database" to send them back to their origin Categories. You could also use "Save Materials" to save the materials selected in the palette as a *.Mat file.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit


* October 15, 2017, 11:49:43 AM
#11
Hi,  I've recently upgraded to TC 2017 from TC19. I imported some of my 3D drawings but the rendering (both using REDSDK I think?) doesn't look as good. I have a pretty old ATI Radeon HD5700 graphics board. I don't really know what I'm doing so a bit of help in coming up with a basic set of REDSDK settings would be great. I have right clicked on the camera properties icons and have messed about with the quality and advanced settings (Green and gold teacups) but am somewhat confused in terms of what to select for the various options (category, render style, foreground wireframe etc etc).  My lighting set up maybe isn't optimal either. The results are useable but I could do with a suggested starting point. All a bit vague but hopefuly someone can help
Thanks, Keith

Hi Keith,
I loaded your drawing in 2017. I didn't make any changes to your lightworks materials. I added a ground plane and tweaked   ;D an advanced render style. I would get the Lightworks plugin for "compatibility" reasons with older versions.

'Yeah, I could not "Add RedSDK Material" from the Lightworks only ones... not sure if this is a new bug?"

Daz, Nice Redsdk render  :) I could "add redsdk component" in the RM. >check your build. I'm on 38.2

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* October 15, 2017, 11:53:11 AM
#12
Still struggling a bit.
I think that I need to get the rendering options sorted out.
If I right click on the camera properties icon (Gold cup/saucer for advanced green cup for quality) I get a drop down menu for camera properties.
If I want to set this up for the "advanced" camera properies I assume that I tick the advanced box. Rendering type I assume "Redsdk" is selected. Category: Active drawing ? (It's the only option I have). Under render style: The number of options seems to vary but I've gone for Global illumination Fine. I'm not sure what Foreground Wireframe does for me so I've left all boxes unticked. Having worked through this the result doesn't look too bad but this is more by luck than judgement.
Just tried exiting and re-loading and the shading seems to heve disappeared. Sigh... Glass of wine called for! Regards, keith

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* October 15, 2017, 12:56:55 PM
#13
When you open old files (before you re-save as a new name and a 2017 file), you will likely need to alter the camera properties, one thing I'd advise changing is Draft,  it often opens old files as 'open GL'  change it to RedSDK type, and RedSDL Draft mode,  for me - RdSDK draft is a lot better than using openGL.

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* October 16, 2017, 05:31:44 AM
#14
Hi Andy

Yeah, I could not "Add RedSDK Material" from the Lightworks only ones... not sure if this is a new bug?


Daz, I could also "Add RedSdk material" TC 2017 build 38.2

just so users understand. if you don't have the Lightworks plugin and you open a file that has Lightworks materials you can select the material in the material palette and choose "Add redsdk material". The new redsdk material will not contain the Lightworks material properties but a Default redsdk material will be created so you need to re-create the material properties.

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"What do I know, I'm still learning"..
Windows 7 64 bit HP > on a stock HP laptop with 4gb-2.4 GHz.Turbocad 2018-2017, TurboCad Platinum 21.Using Lightworks and Redsdk, Anilab lab 5. ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4500/5100


* October 16, 2017, 05:54:04 AM
#15
Dean - if one doesn't have any materials displayed in the material palette, is there a setting to force them to display,  also my material palette right click menu doesn't have that option, not even greyed out. (RedSDK only - using 24.0 build 38.2)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 06:00:09 AM by Andy H »

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* October 16, 2017, 07:34:02 AM
#16
Dean - if one doesn't have any materials displayed in the material palette, is there a setting to force them to display,  also my material palette right click menu doesn't have that option, not even greyed out. (RedSDK only - using 24.0 build 38.2)

Set the Material palette to display "ALL" in the palette toolbar.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit


* October 16, 2017, 08:21:30 AM
#17
Thanks John,   I'd previously click on the RW, but never gave it a thought that it was a fly-out  :-[

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* October 16, 2017, 08:44:43 AM
#18
You're welcome.

Normally, in a situation like yours (no LightWorks), you really just want to see only the RedSDK materials. The hard part is remembering that the option to switch is there.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit