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OT: Pc upgrade
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* June 22, 2019, 08:26:34 PM
Got an opportunity to upgrade my pc and just wondering if I can get some advice. Looking to upgrade the cpu, motherboard, graphics card, will get 32gb of memory and power supply.

With so many choices its hard to know what is and what isnt biased these days when reviewing online.

Cpu: i7 8700?, i9 9900k/x ?
Graphics card: Nvidia quadro, Nvidia rtx 2600 ?
Motherboard: Asus, Gigabyte ?


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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


June 23, 2019, 05:19:56 AM
#1
Got an opportunity to upgrade my pc and just wondering if I can get some advice. Looking to upgrade the cpu, motherboard, graphics card, will get 32gb of memory and power supply.

With so many choices its hard to know what is and what isnt biased these days when reviewing online.

Cpu: i7 8700?, i9 9900k/x ?
Graphics card: Nvidia quadro, Nvidia rtx 2600 ?
Motherboard: Asus, Gigabyte ?

I am doing research for a new system.  The motherboard is one of the last things I'd pick, based on the components and functionality I want/need.

The Intel Core i7-8700K provides the best value for overall performance (2nd quarter 2019), but the AMD Threadrippers are considered better for rendering.  The AMD Threadripper 1950X (GM) has got a lot more cores (24 vs 12), so even though its CPU speed is only 95% of the 8700K, it will provide better performance for those tasks that TurboCAD uses hyper-threading (rendering engines) and its price is only a little higher.

So, even though TurboCAD doesn't support Hyper-Threading anywhere near as much as some of us would like, indicating clock speed would be the more important choice over core count, the 1950X seems to break that rule if you do a lot of rendering.

Note that the new AMD Ryzen CPUs (not yet on the market) have higher indicated performance (according to the leaks I've read) and this is supposedly leading Intel to drop their prices as much as 10% in the near future (and probably the existing AMD models, as well), so you may want to wait a month or two and monitor prices.

32 GB is supported by any of the 64-bit Windows 10 operating systems, including Home.  If you go with the (soon to be unsupported) Windows 7, you'll need Professional to address that much RAM.  Don't use Windows 8, from everything I've heard.  Get the fastest memory (from a quality manufacturer) your CPU supports and choose the motherboard accordingly.

Unless you are doing heavy rendering, the graphics card won't make much of a difference, so long as it has enough memory.  Any NVidia GeForce-series model with 4+ GB will be adequate.  I have read, but not confirmed, that the NVidia Quadro cards provide the best performance for the most intensive rendering (RedSDK's Global Illumination Fine, for instance), but I haven't seen anything indicating that Lightworks will use the GPU to any great extent.  I certainly have not seen it in my testing.  If I remember correctly, Don Cheke and a couple other people have Quadro cards, but I haven't seen any of them post benchmark results (see this thread for some RedSDK results: http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,8615.msg94205.html).

If you decide to go with a Quadro card, the current sweetspot is held by the Quadro RTX 4000 ($800 range, but it has a lot of the stuff the more expensive cards have and isn't much more than the NON-Quadro GeForce RTX 2060).  It's not much more money, either.

Your best performance increase will come with an NVMe boot drive in an M.2 slot.  I'm using a 256 GB model, but newer ones have up to a terabyte.  I still use spinners for data storage, so the 256 GB capacity is fine for my boot drive.

Let us know how it turns out.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* June 23, 2019, 09:11:32 AM
#2
Jeff,

When you say the NVMe in the M.2 slot provides the best performance upgrade, I would like to know how that works.

My admittedly limited understanding of computer architecture is that upon startup, after the POST (Power On Self Test) on the motherboard, the CPU retrieves the operating system from storage.  The operating system may be stored on a Hard Disc, Solid State Drive, NVMe in the M.2 slot or other location designated as the Boot Drive on the motherboard BIOS. Once the operating system is loaded to RAM and is up and running, applications can be accessed and started from any connected storage available to the computer.  During operation, the CPU uses RAM for processing and only accesses mass storage for saving and retrieving files

So, my question is regarding performance.  Obviously, the operating system and Turbocad will load much faster from NVMe.  Once Turbocad is up and running, will it still use NVMe for processing and thus improve operating performance or is operating performance enhanced due to faster reading and writing to files stored in NVMe?


Toshiba Satellite S855D
AMD A10-4600 APU Radeon HD 2.3 GHz
16 GB Ram  Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
TC 2018 PP Ver. 25.0 Build 49.0

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TC 2016 Pro Plat 64b ver 25 build 49  Win7 Pro 64B SP1
Intel i5 6500 3.2G 16GB DDR4-2400 RAM
Motherboard MSI Z170-A  Video Card Nvidia GTX960  Monitor Asus 27" 2560 x 1440


June 23, 2019, 01:34:58 PM
#3
So, my question is regarding performance.  Obviously, the operating system and Turbocad will load much faster from NVMe.  Once Turbocad is up and running, will it still use NVMe for processing and thus improve operating performance or is operating performance enhanced due to faster reading and writing to files stored in NVMe?

The NVMe drive in your motherboard (which has to have the correct BIOS to take advantage of the hardware) will boot your operating system and start any programs much faster.

Once the OS and programs are in RAM, the NVMe will only help a very little bit when the OS does its housekeeping.  It will also help TurboCAD if your Auto-Backup folder is on the NVMe drive (mine is on my spinner).


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* June 23, 2019, 04:13:23 PM
#4
Starting with the cpu, so just trying to get the best bang for my buck. Considering an i9 9700k, i7 8700 for starters.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


* June 23, 2019, 06:03:57 PM
#5
Jeff thanks for reminding me about the red tutorial. So I re read each post and it seems that the Xeon processor from John R's system is better. Given that Im staying with tcw cad it maybe worth considering spending the time to convert my lw materials to red materials. Most materials are just colour, about 40 are car paint and Im using about 6 wrapped.

Considering building my own pc to save on the process because here in oz we are slugged for each part that makes up the total pc parts list with shipping and extra markup costs.

Later today I will post back to this thread on research covering cpu, graphics, motherboard, ssd drives and miscellaneous parts in much more detail.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


* June 23, 2019, 09:53:31 PM
#6
So heres the 1st link that I came across about the best system for CAD in general.
https://www.cgdirector.com/best-pc-for-cad-autocad-solidworks/

I then followed all the links covering:
https://www.cgdirector.com/best-computer-3d-modeling-rendering/

https://www.cgdirector.com/pc-builder/

https://www.cgdirector.com/best-cpu-for-rendering/
I then Entered PC/Workstation for Computer Type, selected 3D GPU... for main purpose and then finally Set US$2000 for my budget ( see for yourself)

https://www.cgdirector.com/best-hardware-for-gpu-rendering-in-octane-redshift-vray/
Of course none of these apply to tcw, still interesting reading.

Went to Intel for a comparison chart attached, my intel chip is highlited.


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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


June 24, 2019, 05:33:26 AM
#7
So heres the 1st link that I came across about the best system for CAD in general.

Keep in mind that different CAD programs have different video card preferences.  I saw a comparison that showed AutoCAD worked best with (not very expensive) cards designed for video games and did not perform as well as cards that provided hardware support for OpenGL, OpenCL, etc.  They even outperformed Quadro cards.

Went to Intel for a comparison chart attached, my intel chip is highlited.

If rendering with TurboCAD is important, then you would be better off with an AMD Threadripper 2990WX than the Intel Xeon W-3175X; 4 more cores (8 more threads) and upwards of $200 cheaper.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* June 24, 2019, 03:40:37 PM
#8
I might be wrong but I cant find where or how tcw uses or you can set the number of threads.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


June 24, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
#9
I might be wrong but I cant find where or how tcw uses or you can set the number of threads.

TurboCAD will automatically use as many threads as it can find.  You can restrict the number of threads used under Options / Desktop.  If I were going to render a large, complex scene, I might set aside 1 thread for general Windows housekeeping if I needed to do other things during the render, but it hasn't really been a problem for the scenes I've been rendering.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* June 24, 2019, 04:33:27 PM
#10
Yeah thanks Jeff just found it myself, I was looking in the wrong tab. Back to the investigation now. More reporting soon.

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


* June 24, 2019, 09:40:27 PM
#11
These four images tell a better story that I can so take a look fro yourself. Still not quite sure of the graphics card but am leaning towards either a Quadro 2000 or gtx 1080ti. Sure none of them are designed for tcw, I wish that imsi would work with manufactures/reviewers here. Most likely stay with Intel as I personally had bad memories of amd processors not working for some configuration that I had in the past. more to come

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


Today at 01:52:37 AM
#12
As you can see in the Cinebench rankings, the Ryzen CPUs are outperforming the Intel models.  The other rankings are more... detached from real-world performance.

I still wish IMSI would publish some benchmarking tools that can be utilized by the various ranking services.  It would be useful.


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1


* Today at 02:09:17 AM
#13
Agree the amd's are much better amd also agree your wish that imsi would benchmark their software. Was wondering since Majo's 1st post about his redsdk tutorial mentioned previously if we should do one for Lightworks. My point is that some new  features or improvements were added to 2019pp. I might be wrong but I remember this was mentioned by Vlad in a lightworks document.

Jeff whats your take on motherboards and the new samsung evo M.2 ssd ?

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Daz
TCW V21, 2016-2018 PP, Animation Lab V5, TurboPDF V2-V3 & LightWorks Rendering Engine mostly.


Today at 02:18:08 AM
#14
Jeff whats your take on motherboards and the new samsung evo M.2 ssd ?

The motherboard is the last thing I pick, after CPU, graphics card, RAM, etc.  I've had ASUS, ASRock and a couple others, all of them worked well.  I've never had a capacitor blowout (it's been a few years since I've read about that happening, so it's not as common as it used to be).  Once the components are selected, choose the motherboard that's got the bells and whistles you want at the desired price point.

Haven't checked the 'new' Samsung M.2 NVMe card, but I'm happy with my Samsung 950 M.2 card (a couple years old).


Jeff

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TC Pro Platinum 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 & 2015 (all with LightWorks & RedSDK) & V21
System: i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, ASRock X99 Extreme4, 16GB DDR4-2133 RAM, Gigabyte GTX 970, Samsung NVMe SSD 950 (256GB), Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) SP1