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Can someone explain what this Help file entry means - giving a 2D object depth?
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* January 20, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
I'm completely new to working with 3D in version 19 Pro. Could someone point me to a better understanding of the following statement from the Help file, because I can't seem to make it work. It says:

"An easy way to create a 3D object is to give depth to a 2D object. This is done by opening the Properties window of a 2D object (see Object Properties) to the 3D page, and entering a thickness."
 
and then the picture they show has a Properties dialog which has "3D" in the menu. No matter what I try, I can't seem to get "3D" to show up in the properties of a simple graphic to try this. All I ever see is 3 listings, General, Pen, and Custom. I've never seen more than that. How do I need to set things up to make this work, as I figure it is a matter of not having the program set to be able to utilize 3D. I tried the Toggle 2D/3D command, and tried several options in the Workspace/Workplane menu, but had no luck.

Normally I just draw 2D mechanical drawings, but I'd like to learn about 3D, and this above Help file statement seemed simple enough to try as a first step, if I could make it work.


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* January 20, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
#1
Just wondered if what you are trying to add thickness to is a group, in which case it doesn't show the 3D properties until you go into group edit mode.

Quickest way to check if 3D works, draw a single line, either right click and choose properties-3D-thickness , or look in the design director properties for 3D.

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* January 21, 2015, 07:11:50 AM
#2
Ah, yes. Actually the object I had chosen was a group of lines in a polygon. That might explain it. What is the easiest way to enter Group Edit Mode? I use groups rather frequently, so knowing that would be helpful. I have run into problems in the past trying to edit a group of objects, and usually had to explode the group, as I am not familiar with group edit.

TurboCAD is a wonderful program, but it has such complex abilities one can spend hours trying to find something in the user manual. And it often lacks the essential piece of the puzzle. For example, it didn't mention that this feature doesn't work on a group when I was reading about it.

This forum is great for getting right to the point so one can get back to work. Thanks!


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* January 21, 2015, 08:07:19 AM
#3
Ah, yes. Actually the object I had chosen was a group of lines in a polygon. That might explain it. What is the easiest way to enter Group Edit Mode? I use groups rather frequently, so knowing that would be helpful. I have run into problems in the past trying to edit a group of objects, and usually had to explode the group, as I am not familiar with group edit.

TurboCAD is a wonderful program, but it has such complex abilities one can spend hours trying to find something in the user manual. And it often lacks the essential piece of the puzzle. For example, it didn't mention that this feature doesn't work on a group when I was reading about it.

This forum is great for getting right to the point so one can get back to work. Thanks!

For Group Edit...see attached.

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DonCW

2017 Platinum
Light Works Plug in
Windows 10
There's so much to learn and not much time left to learn it.


* January 21, 2015, 10:20:13 AM
#4
Actually the object I had chosen was a group of lines in a polygon.


One thing to note, if they are just a set of lines then thickness won't produce a single solid object - the object / profile needs to be closed - after entering group edit mode as Don has shown, - See attached

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* January 21, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
#5
OK. Thanks guys. There is a lot to learn with this, but your information should get me started. I found myself in need of depicting a partially rotated 2D object, viewed from an angle that I think only 3D style drawing can provide, unless I want to completely re-draw the object seen from that perspective. Not sure if I'd rather re-draw it staying in 2D and try to make it look as I need it, or try the above to bring it into proper perspective. I'll need to play with this a bit. Thanks again. :)


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* January 21, 2015, 08:28:53 PM
#6
you can also click on the edit node tool in the inspection bar

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Nikki
TC20 platinum
TC 2015 platinum
TC 2017 with lightworks


* January 21, 2015, 09:19:43 PM
#7
you can also click on the edit node tool in the inspection bar

Thanks. :)

I've gotten it to work, but I admit manipulating something on 3 axes is a little strange, so it will take some practice. Is there some way to "lock" a snap? Once I snap the reference point of a 3D object I have made, by giving depth to a 2D object, and I have it where I want it, I'd like to be able to rotate it around the 3 axes without worry of moving it, which has been happening if I accidentally drag a rotation handle the wrong way. Especially if the green handle dot gets really close to the yellow reference point dot. Can I force it to stay snapped to one spot? I tried locking a coordinate, but when I do that it keeps me from being able to select any point on the object, or from grabbing any rotation handle. Not sure why.

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January 22, 2015, 09:33:18 AM
#8
Radnoaz,

Select the object in question, right click and choose "edit reference point". This will allow you to set the reference point to a corner or anywhere you can snap, even off of the object. I often use this technique to adjust the angle placement of beams as in the attached drawing of the house I'm building on some property way out west.


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* January 22, 2015, 09:40:31 AM
#9
See the topic: Rotation Help.

When moving a rotation handle, you can hit the Escape key and it should return to its original position.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit


* January 22, 2015, 01:05:11 PM
#10
Radnoaz,

Select the object in question, right click and choose "edit reference point". This will allow you to set the reference point to a corner or anywhere you can snap, even off of the object. I often use this technique to adjust the angle placement of beams as in the attached drawing of the house I'm building on some property way out west.

Thanks. I do use this same technique often myself. But once that reference point is pegged with a snap, and then 3D rotation is applied, it does not keep that reference point nailed to the snapped spot, but allows it to move during the rotation. What I am looking for is a way, in 3D, to make an object "stuck to one point" so that when I rotate it, the object can only spin on one or two axes until I unlock the "sticking" of that spot.

Think of a cube. Stick one corner of it to the floor, on a ball swivel. You could rotate the cube by lifting its opposite edge up off the floor, or you could spin it like a top. But you could not "lift" that corner of the cube off the floor. Sorry I am not familiar with all the correct terminology. I try to learn complex things in small increments as I need them. When I try to read a manual for something this complex, it just passes over my head and I can't retain any of it. So I like to learn one step and practice it until it stays with me how to do it, then move on. :)

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* January 22, 2015, 01:50:12 PM
#11
[Reply #11]

Just ensure that you are grabbing a green rotation-handle/knob and not the yellow reference-point.

Yes, sometimes one of the rotation-handle/knobs appears really close to the reference-point.  In those instances, you just have to zoom in real close, to get them to appear separate enough that you can grab only the green rotation-handle/knobs.  Easy-peasy.

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 22, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
#12
See the topic: Rotation Help.

When moving a rotation handle, you can hit the Escape key and it should return to its original position.

Thanks. I'll try to see if I can figure out exactly what he did in the video. ;)

But I have another obstacle in my path. :)

I took my 2D group of lines and arcs which represents a plate caster, viewed from one side, and pasted it into a new drawing. I oriented it so the axes are on the 0 coordinate directions. (X is to the right, Y is up, etc.) and then copied it. I pasted it into the drawing where I need it to be, and it did not paste in the same orientation into the second drawing. It is rotated on all 3 axes to some undetermined number of degrees??

I have never worked with Workplanes before, so I would like to "hope" that, having not specified any, all of my drawings would be placed on the same workplane. But I am thinking that is not the case here. So how do I get the 3D caster situated back to the same position in 3 dimensions that it was in when I copied it from its drawing? I'm reading about Workplanes in the Help file, and I tried a couple of the described selections, such as Workplace by Entity, but it isn't working or else I do not understand what is supposed to happen. I need the caster to paste into the second drawing in the same 3D orientation as it had in the drawing where I created it, and I can't seem to figure out how to do that.

In the attached images, I created and rotated the caster here, and then copied them in the "Caster created" drawing, but when I paste them in the other drawing, they appear rotated some unknown amount in 3 dimensions.





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* January 22, 2015, 02:08:29 PM
#13
[Reply #11]

Just ensure that you are grabbing a green rotation-handle/knob and not the yellow reference-point.

Yes, sometimes one of the rotation-handle/knobs appears really close to the reference-point.  In those instances, you just have to zoom in real close, to get them to appear separate enough that you can grab only the green rotation-handle/knobs.  Easy-peasy.

Thanks. Yes, I am using the green rotation handles and not the yellow reference point, during rotations. :)

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* January 22, 2015, 04:07:56 PM
#14
Why not use View/Walk Through/Examine?  It doesn't move the part as you don't even have to have it selected.

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* January 22, 2015, 05:38:48 PM
#15
Why not use View/Walk Through/Examine?  It doesn't move the part as you don't even have to have it selected.

Thanks, but I'm not sure how that would be helpful here. I'm trying to depict a 2D view of a drawing component that will sit rotated 54 degrees on another component. If you refer to my second image above, the 3D rendering on the right is "close" to what it is supposed to be. The blue item is the thin edge of a 2x4 board. The center of the base of the rotated caster will sit flush on the "top surface" of the 2x4 (on its 3 1/2" wide surface), snapped to the 3rd construction line in from the left. It provides the top view of the typical "top, front, right side" views I learned to draw way back in school when I was young. All my mechanical drawings are made that way. The front view looks like the attached below. I drew the caster differently looking at it from this angle, so that when I print the drawing it looks OK.

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* January 22, 2015, 05:58:03 PM
#16
[Reply #13]

I think the clue is in the fact that in your second screen-capture, the Ruler isn't showing on the left side-- the "Y"- side-- but is showing on the top-- the "X"-side.  And I haven't figured out how to replicate that behavior.

Better upload/attach both of the drawing-files for the experts to analyze.  ~Alvin

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 22, 2015, 06:07:39 PM
#17
[Reply #13]

I think the clue is in the fact that in your second screen-capture, the Ruler isn't showing on the left side-- the "Y"- side-- but is showing on the top-- the "X"-side.  And I haven't figured out how to replicate that behavior.

Better upload/attach both of the drawing-files for the experts to analyze.  ~Alvin

RE:  "And I haven't figured out how to replicate that behavior".

_____
I've discovered how to replicate that behavior:

Go to the normal "World Plan" View.  Activate the Walkthrough/"Turn" Tool.  Drag it down or up, not left or right.

You probably inadvertently skewed your View in Drawing#2 before doing the Paste.  Try just going to the normal "World Plan" View in Drawing #2, as it is-- with the caster Pasted.
   The Paste will paste on the current Drawing#2 Workplane (User Coordinate System; UCS) no matter the current View, in the center of the current view; but if the View is skewed, one might perceive the Paste as having been skewed.
_____
Do the two screen-captures below look familiar.  I intentionally did in two separate Drawings what I suggested above that you inadvertently did.

_____
And I suggest, when working in 3D-- keeping your User Coordinate System icon visible.  That's in Options/Preferences and/or in the Workspace menu.

~Alvin
[What can I say... I like to problem-solve.]

(Can we start a new Topic-thread for the next issue.)

p.s.:  We can get rid of a lot of those extraneous lines displaying by going to Menu Bar/Options/Drawing Setup.../Display...,  and un-checking "Draw form-building edges".  The result of doing that is shown in the third screen-capture below, "Caster-SkewedView-2.2.png".

« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 04:49:47 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 23, 2015, 07:32:26 AM
#18
Thanks Alvin!

I only noticed the lack of the Y scale being enumerated sometime after I had posted the previous message. I was unable to figure out how to fix it, so I selected all, copied, and pasted it into a blank drawing using my same typical setup - a hand crafted blank 'template', if you will. That fixed it.

The skewing happened while I was exploring the Workplane tools. I saw it, and used CTRL+Z to undo it. But didn't notice the scale disappearing. Still getting a handle on Workplanes, but it is starting to come together. I did end up with an orientation I wanted for the 3D caster, but I had to tweak the 3 axes rotation manually. I still haven't figured out how to preserve their angular rotation settings from one drawing to another. Hopefully that will come in time as I study using Workplane manipulation.

Depending on one's viewpoint, it can be said I strayed from the original topic I guess, but the issues that follwed are all due to my initial interest in creating an easy 3D object by giving a 2D object thickness. I suspect others new to this idea may encounter all these same issues. And I like to leave breadcrumbs for them on forums, as I work out a problem, so in my viewpoint the thread has continuity. :) However, we've pretty much got the answers I needed, so starting a new thread for the next issue is a good idea. That said, if you don't mind 'just one more' :D I do have a puzzling question yet unanswered, and I am looking at the answer in the last drawing you attached. All I need to know is how you did it. :) The User Coordinate System icon you mentioned - the XYZ plot icon in the lower left corner. Mine is ultra-tiny. Perhaps because I am using an ultra-wide 34'' display? Yours is much bigger. How do I enlarge that indicator? I didn't see mention of it in the Help file, which in itself can be a let-down. I keep seeing posted comments indicating things are missing or incorrect.  Last night I found a section with a red-texted notation at its main index, which said 'deprecated for version 19'???

Thanks again! :)

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* January 23, 2015, 08:15:45 AM
#19
... I do have a puzzling question yet unanswered, and I am looking at the answer in the last drawing you attached. All I need to know is how you did it. :) The User Coordinate System icon you mentioned - the XYZ plot icon in the lower left corner. Mine is ultra-tiny.
...

The "'XYZ plot icon' in the lower left corner" is not the User Coordinate System icon.  It is the World Coordinate System Icon


1)  Typically, the World CS icon (World Coordinate System icon) will be at the very bottom left of your TurboCAD Desktop.  The location of this icon is assigned as described in Paragraph-3 below.

2)  At the origin of the current Workplane (User Coordinate System; UCS) will be the intersection of the X,Y,Z axes of the User CS icon.
Sometimes, if our view and zoom-level is such that we are far away from that UCS origin, we will not be able to see the UCS icon; ... it's way over there... somewhere...

3)  To turn on and change the size and colors of these icons, go to Menu Bar/Options/Program Setup.../Preference; they are at the top of that page.  The location of the World CS icon can also be assigned here.  The value for "Icon size" equals number-of-screen-pixels, I believe; I have mine cranked up to the max, 128.
In most configurations (Workspaces), these can also be turned on of off via Menu Bar/Workspace, at the bottom of that menu.
Again, see Paragraph-2 for the location of the UCS icon (User CS icon).

4)  Keep in mind, that the current Workplane-- the current UCS-- can be and often is the World Workplane (the World CS).  When that is the case, the User CS icon will be located at X=0,Y=0,Z=0, with the positive-value of X facing to the right on the screen, the positive-value of Y facing up on the screen, and positive-value of Z facing at you.
Also keep in mind that when the current UCS is the World CS, and both icons are turned on, the World CS icon will remain where you assigned it-- typically, bottom-left corner.  The reason to leave the World CS on is so when you are in weird views, it helps to orient you to the built-in, base, coordinate-system, the World Coordinate System.

~Alvin
[I tend to be verbose.  I know... :-\]
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 10:12:28 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* January 23, 2015, 12:20:14 PM
#20
... I do have a puzzling question yet unanswered, and I am looking at the answer in the last drawing you attached. All I need to know is how you did it. :) The User Coordinate System icon you mentioned - the XYZ plot icon in the lower left corner. Mine is ultra-tiny.
...

The "'XYZ plot icon' in the lower left corner" is not the User Coordinate System icon.  It is the World Coordinate System Icon


1)  Typically, the World CS icon (World Coordinate System icon) will be at the very bottom left of your TurboCAD Desktop.  The location of this icon is assigned as described in Paragraph-3 below.

2)  At the origin of the current Workplane (User Coordinate System; UCS) will be the intersection of the X,Y,Z axes of the User CS icon.
Sometimes, if our view and zoom-level is such that we are far away from that UCS origin, we will not be able to see the UCS icon; ... it's way over there... somewhere...

3)  To turn on and change the size and colors of these icons, go to Menu Bar/Options/Program Setup.../Preference; they are at the top of that page.  The location of the World CS icon can also be assigned here.  The value for "Icon size" equals number-of-screen-pixels, I believe; I have mine cranked up to the max, 128.
In most configurations (Workspaces), these can also be turned on of off via Menu Bar/Workspace, at the bottom of that menu.
Again, see Paragraph-2 for the location of the UCS icon (User CS icon).

4)  Keep in mind, that the current Workplane-- the current UCS-- can be and often is the World Workplane (the World CS).  When that is the case, the User CS icon will be located at X=0,Y=0,Z=0, with the positive-value of X facing to the right on the screen, the positive-value of Y facing up on the screen, and positive-value of Z facing at you.
Also keep in mind that when the current UCS is the World CS, and both icons are turned on, the World CS icon will remain where you assigned it-- typically, bottom-left corner.  The reason to leave the World CS on is so when you are in weird views, it helps to orient you to the built-in, base, coordinate-system, the World Coordinate System.

~Alvin
[I tend to be verbose.  I know... :-\]

Thanks Alvin!

In the world of sharing knowledge, there is no such thing as verbose, only "fully explained". ;)  I appreciate your taking the time to explain all that. I won't launch my disliking of user manuals in general here (THAT is verbose!) but will say that being written by those intimately familiar with the product, they don't realize how much they leave out of user manuals that is second nature to them. Manuals should be written by people totally unfamiliar with the product for the first time, using those familiar with the product as consultants, and be VERY verbose. lol

I was only allowed to increase the icon from the default 55 to 128, but that is acceptable (I tried to just stick a 1 in front of 55 and it wouldn't let me).

Thanks again to all you good folks who took the time to help me out!! :)


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