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extruding a 3d polyline on correct path
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* March 21, 2014, 01:29:48 PM
This goes along with my bumper corner extrusion issue. Here is a simpler view of an issue I will run into again I am sure. This drawing has the workplane set as world plane and then a simple cube is drawn. Without changing the workplane a 3d polyline is snapped to the side facet. To extrude the polyline it extrudes if off the base worldplane that it was drawn using. How can I change it so that the polyline would extrude in the direction right off the facet it is on? I understand that setting a workplane first would solve that but as in the bumper thread sometimes there are too many angles and after the line is drawn it seems that you should be able to change how it extrudes. Thanks guys for looking. I am seriously losing sleep over this ha ha.

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TC 14 pro,  TC 18 platinum,  TC 2015 platinum. 3 s10's and an s4


* March 21, 2014, 02:21:07 PM
#1
So playing some more I can set a workplane by 3 points to the polyline. Then change the z reference bar by using ctrl and grabbing the green z. Then align that in the direction I want to extrude and while it is still selected make a copy in the z direction the specified distance of extrude. Then loft the first to the next. Maybe this is the only way to do this with 3d polylines. When I change the z reference then use extrude tool it goes back to its default. When you change an items regular reference point it stays put in new place. How can one change the rotation bar references to stay permanent after changing there place?

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TC 14 pro,  TC 18 platinum,  TC 2015 platinum. 3 s10's and an s4


* March 21, 2014, 02:39:19 PM
#2
...

...

First off:  If you are going to draw a Polyline on a single plane (such as the side facet of the cube), you don't need to use a 3D Polyline.
If you use a 2D Polyline, you can just assign it a Height in it's Properties/3D page.  Just first you have to enable "Auto Workplane by Face" (I don't know that ver.-15 has that); or create a new workplane-> "Workplane by Facet".

An Explode or two will make it a TC Surface or ACIS Solid.  If you get it to a TC Surface but you want it to be a Solid, you can likely-- after one or two Explodes*-- go into its Properties/3D page and select "Solid".  (this is if you are working in a Pro version of TurboCAD; I believe I read on one of your Posts that you are).

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*Doing a 3D Boolean operation on a 2D Polyline with Height should also result in the 2D Polyline becoming a TC Surface (no longer a 2D Polyline with Height assigned).

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Another thing to consider:  Use the 3D Tool "Extrude" to sort of "pull" the 2D Polyline into a 3D entity (I believe in ver.-15 you have that; and I think the 2D Polyline will remain in place until you Delete it.)
I don't know that TurboCAD will do some 3D operations-- such as Extrude-- on a 3D Polyline, even if does have the shape and is on a single plane just as a 2D Polyline would be.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 02:53:56 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 21, 2014, 04:06:28 PM
#3
This goes along with my bumper corner extrusion issue. Here is a simpler view of an issue I will run into again I am sure. This drawing has the workplane set as world plane and then a simple cube is drawn. Without changing the workplane a 3d polyline is snapped to the side facet. To extrude the polyline it extrudes if off the base worldplane that it was drawn using. How can I change it so that the polyline would extrude in the direction right off the facet it is on? I understand that setting a workplane first would solve that but as in the bumper thread sometimes there are too many angles and after the line is drawn it seems that you should be able to change how it extrudes. Thanks guys for looking. I am seriously losing sleep over this ha ha.

Establish a new Workplane on the side facet. (Workplane by Facet is the easiest way; Workplane by 3 Points will work, too.) Delete your 3D Polyline and draw a 2D Polyline (blue in the attached screenshot) by snapping to the corners of the facet. Simple-Extrude the new Polyline.

Henry H

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* March 21, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
#4
Thanks for the replies guys. First off I would not normally draw a 3d polyline on the side and try and extrude it. Take a warped shape and then snap a 3d polyline to the vertices. Now try and extrude it the direction you want. It will always extrude the direction that the workplane was set when you drew it. Setting a workplane may be difficult the way you want so now just draw the 3d polyline then try to change its extents coordinate box to the direction you want to pull it. But when go to pull it the extents box will be back to its original way. The cube in my above drawing was just example to ask how to change the 3d polyline's extent box so it can be extruded which ever direction I want. By the way I am using pro platinum 21 trial version. This is all possible in my 14 pro mechanical edition also.

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TC 14 pro,  TC 18 platinum,  TC 2015 platinum. 3 s10's and an s4


* March 21, 2014, 04:54:35 PM
#5
Thanks for the replies guys. First off I would not normally draw a 3d polyline on the side and try and extrude it. Take a warped shape and then snap a 3d polyline to the vertices. Now try and extrude it the direction you want. It will always extrude the direction that the workplane was set when you drew it. Setting a workplane may be difficult the way you want so now just draw the 3d polyline then try to change its extents coordinate box to the direction you want to pull it. But when go to pull it the extents box will be back to its original way. The cube in my above drawing was just example to ask how to change the 3d polyline's extent box so it can be extruded which ever direction I want. By the way I am using pro platinum 21 trial version. This is all possible in my 14 pro mechanical edition also.

When I think about trying to accomplish something like you are trying to accomplish (I get it:  You're not trying to draw something in particular right now; you're just trying to iron down a method) I am reminded of those television shows that take us inside the inner-workings of BMW or another car company.

Their designs start with a huge mound of clay, and the "artists/design-engineers" start scraping and poking and chiseling that clay.

I wonder to myself:  How would I draw that in CAD?   So arbitrary all the planes and shape directions.

I think even they start with that solid clay model and use a scan-to-CAD type device to begin their CAD process.

(I could be completely wrong; what do I know.  There are likely a few smart and knowledgeable people on these Forums that are read-up on that.  "I'm reminded..." is what I'm saying... )

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 21, 2014, 05:13:08 PM
#6
Maybe we can ask Henry:

If we draw a bunch of "arbitrarily placed" 3D Polylines (Closed, maybe?... or maybe not) with vertices coincident (I think I got that term right), does TurboCAD-21-Pro have a Tool that can convert all of that into a 3D Solid?

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 21, 2014, 05:54:22 PM
#7
Maybe we can ask Henry:

If we draw a bunch of "arbitrarily placed" 3D Polylines (Closed, maybe?... or maybe not) with vertices coincident (I think I got that term right), does TurboCAD-21-Pro have a Tool that can convert all of that into a 3D Solid?

Not sure I understand the question, Alvin. You mean, "Loft" them?

Henry H

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* March 21, 2014, 06:05:22 PM
#8
I am finding that there are ways around things as far as this goes. But the question in my head still remains cause I don't like being stumped.
   So far what I know is that an object drawn on a plane will only extrude +/- its z axis. But what if you have something like a 3d polyline that is drawn on a plane where the shape only goes in the z and one other axis and you want to extrude it. It seems to flip and extrude in z direction. What if you want to extrude it sideways? I am wondering if its possible to change how the object relates to its original plane. You can change the rotation bars and move it diagonally but extrude still works only in z of plane. If this is not  possible then I am assuming that perhaps drawing sweep path and sweeping may be only option besides setting a plane to the object and redrawing or copying and moving the copy in its new z direction then lofting. I understand these options but am still stuck on if its possible to change an objects relationship to its originally drawn on plane.

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TC 14 pro,  TC 18 platinum,  TC 2015 platinum. 3 s10's and an s4


* March 21, 2014, 06:25:36 PM
#9
I am finding that there are ways around things as far as this goes. But the question in my head still remains cause I don't like being stumped.
   So far what I know is that an object drawn on a plane will only extrude +/- its z axis. But what if you have something like a 3d polyline that is drawn on a plane where the shape only goes in the z and one other axis and you want to extrude it. It seems to flip and extrude in z direction. What if you want to extrude it sideways? I am wondering if its possible to change how the object relates to its original plane. You can change the rotation bars and move it diagonally but extrude still works only in z of plane. If this is not  possible then I am assuming that perhaps drawing sweep path and sweeping may be only option besides setting a plane to the object and redrawing or copying and moving the copy in its new z direction then lofting. I understand these options but am still stuck on if its possible to change an objects relationship to its originally drawn on plane.

If that object is a 3D Polyline or a 2D Polyline, then No, I don't think that can be done without changing the spatial orientation of the object.

You can Sweep or Rail Sweep a 2D profile, or a 3D Polyline profile having not more than four sides, or a 3D Spline profile.

Henry H

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* March 21, 2014, 06:32:25 PM
#10
Maybe we can ask Henry:

If we draw a bunch of "arbitrarily placed" 3D Polylines (Closed, maybe?... or maybe not) with vertices coincident (I think I got that term right), does TurboCAD-21-Pro have a Tool that can convert all of that into a 3D Solid?

Not sure I understand the question, Alvin. You mean, "Loft" them?

Henry H

I hate to get off-topic, but maybe pursuing this a bit more might help the original Poster.

Attached is a small drawing.  Just a bunch of 3D Polylines drawn randomly, Vertices coincident (vertices at the same x,y,z coordinates).

In version-21-Pro:  Is there a Tool or Command that can "grab" all the 3D Polylines and "make a 3D Entity"? (Surface or Solid).
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 06:35:16 PM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* March 21, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
#11
Quote
If that object is a 3D Polyline or a 2D Polyline, then No, I don't think that can be done without changing the spatial orientation of the object.

You can Sweep or Rail Sweep a 2D profile, or a 3D Polyline profile having not more than four sides, or a 3D Spline profile.

Henry H
  This is the answer I was looking for. Now I can sleep ha ha. So if need be then it could be drawn then a plane set to it then redrawn on the plane you want it to go on or sweeping or lofting.

Quote
I hate to get off-topic, but maybe pursuing this a bit more might help the original Poster.

Attached is a small drawing.  Just a bunch of 3D Polylines drawn randomly, Vertices coincident (vertices at the same x,y,z coordinates).

In version-21-Pro:  Is there a Tool or Command that can "grab" all the 3D Polylines and "make a 3D Entity"? (Surface or Solid).

I am thinking like if you look at a sphere in the "edit" mode and there are zillions of lines connecting nodes. Something similar drawn with polylines then you could wave a magic wand and it turns into the faceted solid or suface? I also would like to know this and assume you can somehow as it would be nice for reverse engineering things. Place points and snap lines to them or perhaps place a mesh over them.

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TC 14 pro,  TC 18 platinum,  TC 2015 platinum. 3 s10's and an s4


* March 21, 2014, 10:49:22 PM
#12
Select those polylines, format/modify them as surface|from profiles, multi-add them together, and format/modify the object as solid|from surface.  Even if you've left one face open, ACIS will fill the shell and solidify it.  (sometimes with more than one open face, depending on their relationship, sometimes even if the open face/s aren't planar.  But quite often, Genie tends to snort "is this an open shell?" and refuses to solidify it.)   If it's a manifold object, ie no missing faces, select all of the faces with facet editor (lasso all of the blue indicators so they turn red), and format/modify it as solid|from faces.  With the facet editor version, you can build a solid (or an open shell surface, for that matter) out of composite solids and surfaces, and it also trims surfaces against each other when they intersect rather than trying to match edges exactly, they don't have to be planar or n-sided polygons, they can be curved surfaces (lofts, or spherical/cylindrical/conical/ellipsoidal).  This capacity has been in TC since V9 or V10, and it's become more competent with each successive version of ACIS.   It dumps history, though, so the object is what's widely called a "dumb solid", a sort of freeform primitive.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 11:54:48 PM by murray dickinson »

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* March 22, 2014, 06:41:43 PM
#13
"I am thinking like if you look at a sphere in the "edit" mode and there are zillions of lines connecting nodes. Something similar drawn with polylines then you could wave a magic wand and it turns into the faceted solid or suface? I also would like to know this and assume you can somehow as it would be nice for reverse engineering things. Place points and snap lines to them or perhaps place a mesh over them."

If you try Murray's approach to this problem, be aware that it doesn't work with 3D Polylines. They must be 2D, which means that it's not quite as simple as placing points and snapping lines to them.

Henry H

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* March 22, 2014, 08:21:23 PM
#14
If you've got a point cloud to reverse engineer, you're better off using something like MeshLab to fit a surface over it.   Then it can be exchanged with TC as .obj, 3DS, .dxf, .stl  surface mesh objects rather than point clouds.  Those facet objects or meshes explode down to 2D polylines, not 3D, if you've got to rework things.    If the surface object you've imported in TC is truly closed, no rework is needed; select the object and check "solid" in 3D properties or selection info.   Many 3D scanners and photogrammetry apps deliver .obj or similar surfaces anyway, because they can have materials (a map, for example) applied, which can't be applied to point clouds.   

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* March 22, 2014, 09:03:02 PM
#15
Since you have a trial version of V21 Platinum, you might try the SMesh option in Properties for several of the 3D objects. You can read about it in this Help file link and child pages: Smooth Mesh — SMesh.

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John R.

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