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3d Holes and Patterns in TC P 20
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* April 14, 2013, 02:33:27 PM
Is it possble to create a pattern of holes in a plate after the plate is extruded?  I do see how to create a hole from the hole tool where you can punch or place a hole in a solid.  But my panels have several slotted holes and square holes - sometimes as many as 30 each.  I was wondering if you can create one hole profile and punch it thru the plate and then make a pattern of that item. 

Again, thanks for your valuable input!!!
Eddie.

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* April 14, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
#1
Is it possble to create a pattern of holes in a plate after the plate is extruded?  I do see how to create a hole from the hole tool where you can punch or place a hole in a solid.  But my panels have several slotted holes and square holes - sometimes as many as 30 each. I was wondering if you can create one hole profile and punch it thru the plate and then make a pattern of that item. 

Again, thanks for your valuable input!!!
Eddie.

Yes, but the Pattern tool will space the profiles uniformly along the designated path. If you need nonuniform spacing, I think you'll have to place them manually.

...Having done that, you can select them all and create a Region. Assign a 3D Thickness to the Region and subtract it from the plate to make all the holes at once.

Henry H
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 03:48:19 PM by Henry Hubich »

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* April 14, 2013, 08:18:37 PM
#2
Wouldn't bother with regions nowadays.  Compound profile does some amazing things in V20.  Rip's (assumed attribution) video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhX7_2556Q&list=PLtmuH7aY4fSC5M_k4ra4U1q6Bnarji3fa&index=1
The holes/cutouts could be part of the plate profile, or a separate multibody extrusion to subtract from a plate.    This is one of the best things about V20.

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* April 16, 2013, 03:23:18 PM
#3


* April 17, 2013, 12:49:25 PM
#4
Thank you all.  Dave's video is really what I was looking for on this topic. 

One problem, I tried to do the point on plane pattern to add a hole but got an error message saying that you cant use non-planar pattern.  I even tried putting all elements on workplane and still got the error.  Any thoughts?

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* April 17, 2013, 12:59:51 PM
#5
Typically its best to add your points to the center of a circle.

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* April 17, 2013, 06:56:40 PM
#6
I didn't post the correct error.  Here is what it says:  "Can't use non plane pattern as compound profile."  I was trying to use a rectangular array, not the polar one as shown in Rip's video.   Is this a bug? Or are we only limited to creating polar array pattern parts?  The panels I'm building have many square holes and many round holes in rectangular patterns.  What can I do for a work-a-round without having to select each hole manually when extruding the part?  There are probably 50 or more holes across a 9ft x 3ft panel.  I would like to pattern them so I can modify easier if I need to.

All help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!  Eddie Magic.

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* April 17, 2013, 07:02:04 PM
#7
I've attached a file where I have tried to pattern holes on a square plate w/a rectangle pattern to see if anyone can help.  In this drawing, the polar array works fine.  The rectangle array bombs.  Not sure why.  Try extruding the patterns on the square part or on the square constraint and you'll see what I mean.  The round part works fine.

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* April 17, 2013, 07:24:03 PM
#8
I've attached a file where I have tried to pattern holes on a square plate w/a rectangle pattern to see if anyone can help.  In this drawing, the polar array works fine.  The rectangle array bombs.  Not sure why.  Try extruding the patterns on the square part or on the square constraint and you'll see what I mean.  The round part works fine.

What am I missing?

Henry H

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* April 17, 2013, 07:41:20 PM
#9
edmagic

maybe Dave's video will help at the following link


http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,6375.0.html

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* April 18, 2013, 02:31:52 AM
#10
You'll probably be better off with Constraints, as the 2D profile objects can be connected. When you change the radius of one circle, the other circles and arcs will update to that new size and the 3D part will also update.

If I change the radius of the circle used in the Pattern, nothing changes in the 3D object (probably a BUG).

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* April 18, 2013, 02:59:42 AM
#11
Hi Henry and John

Can I ask what settings your using as I can't get the pattern array (using a 2D object as the source) to work, works fine using 2D as the source on a radial pattern, or on polyline etc (extrudes without problem), so it could be a setting I and Eddie are doing wrong - or your using a patched TC version  :)

basically I -
have auto workplane by face checked - select array pattern - pattern set to 3 col and 3 rows
select 2D circle - click to set origin on face of box - click to set x axis - click to set Y
either click finish - or - set level as 1 and height as 0 then finish, no problem the circles at out in an array.

select extrude tool and get same error as Eddie,  in the selection palette it shows the pattern has a height of 1 even though it shouldn't have a z height, but even when I finally get it to 0 it still won't extrude.

John I noticed you used the imprint tool so just tried that and get same error in your drawing without altering any setting.

Andy

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* April 18, 2013, 05:05:39 AM
#12
Great question Andy.  I concur.  Henry, do you have V20 Platinum?  Did it work?  If so, what are Andi and I doing wrong.  I have the exact same settings as Andi mentioned and still get the bad news when trying to extrude it.

All help is greatly appreciated!
Eddie.

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* April 18, 2013, 08:19:42 AM
#13
I used the file that Ed supplied, so I never made the Pattern. I made a new file from scratch and created the Pattern.

I created a circle, a slot profile and a couple rectangles, etc.
I activated the "Array Pattern" tool.
Filled in 12 Cols and 6 Rows. Enter.
"Leave source copy" and "Fit" were the only options active.
I selected the Circle.
I "V" snapped to the bottom-left corner of the inner rectangle.
Then snapped to the bottom-right (X) and the upper-left corners (Y).
Then used "Finish" in the Local Menu.
The pattern is made.
I repeated for the 'slot'.

I activated the Simple Extrude tool with Compound Profile active.
I extruded the outer rectangle.
I could've held the Shift key and selected the 2 Patterns, but opted to just make a box.
I activated the Imprint tool.
I selected the face on the extrusion, then set the parameters for the Chamfer on the top & bottom.
I also loaded minus 3 in the height field and locked it.
I selected a profile and let it extrude. Due to the large amount of circles in the pattern, it took some time. That's why I lock the Height.
Enter, then repeat for the slot pattern.

I tried to Imprint both Patterns at the same time, but the programs crashed. Too much math??
I originally used the Fillet options in the Imprint tool, but that slowed things down too much.
Hopefully something is useful here.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* April 18, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
#14
John,
That is wierd.  I tried making a new file from scratch and was unable to get those results.  What template did you use?  I'll download the TCW you kindly posted, but it would be nice to know if there is an issue w/the source templates.

Thanks for your input.

What would really be ideal, is if we could punch a hole using the hole tool and then make arrays of the final hole.  That would be awesome!  If it is possible, someone let me know!

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* April 18, 2013, 09:23:23 AM
#15
Here is a screen shot of my latest try.  File was created from scratch.  Still get bad message.  I've also posted a photo of the properties of the array.  Will compare all settings in the deisgn file that John successfully did.  I'm on a mission to figure this one out!

Eddie.

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* April 18, 2013, 09:37:23 AM
#16
Something has to be wrong w/program setup.  I didn't touch anything after opening John's file, and still got the bad news. See images.
John, would you see if you an extrude the profiles after I've had it opened on my PC?  I'm running W8.  Don't really want to blame this on Microsoft yet!  Not sure what is wrong.

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* April 18, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
#17
I had no problem with it on the World Workplane. Hold the Shift key and select the rectangle and both patterns. About 4-5 minutes later it extruded.

I rotated the the one 'pattern/rectangle set' 90° and it wouldn't extrude properly. While holding the Shift key I would select the rectangle, but couldn't select either pattern. I could work it in reverse; select one pattern, then the rectangle and it would extrude.

I'll check Windows 8 in a bit.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* April 18, 2013, 10:43:03 AM
#18
Not Windows 8

I just loaded TC20 32 bit on windows 7 laptop to see if was win 8 / 64 bit problem, but still get the same error, so I guess the next thing I'll have a play with is the different UI modes to see if there is a deeper conflict with a specific setting.

Thanks for trying this John, there is certainly something weird going on, as Eddie says, it doesn't work on the new file you kindly created.

Andy

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* April 18, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
#19
I tried Windows 8 and it wouldn't work for me. I got the same messages that Ed has posted.

I guess this is why I stick with Vista.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* April 18, 2013, 10:58:39 AM
#20
I can't get it to work with Win7 either... I get the same error message.

All the other pattern tools work as they should... but array will not.

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8GB RAM
Radeon 5450 1GB
Windows 7
Redsdk  - Off
Editing History - On
v19.2 Platinum, x64


* April 18, 2013, 10:59:43 AM
#21
Thanks John and Greg,  I wonder if Henry is still using XP which would account for it working for him.

I can't think what there is in Win 8 and Win 7 that could be causing a problem,  I'll send a ticket to support to see what they say.

Thanks
Andy

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April 18, 2013, 11:10:45 AM
#22
The profiles seem to have different coordinate systems.  If place on workplane is used they get all jumbled up.   

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


* April 18, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
#23
HI Rip

Do you mean John's file or Eddie's original, the problem occurs even if one use a single circle on a simple 3 x 3 pattern

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* April 18, 2013, 11:19:10 AM
#24
I tried Windows 7 and was able to use multiple Patterns in an extrusion; as long as it was on the WWP. Everything was the same as Vista.
Windows 7 Home Premium.

re: What template did you use?
No template, "New from Scratch". I almost always use 'Scratch', as I have most of the Defaults set the way I want them. I have a custom Architectural template that I use when the need arises.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 11:34:05 AM by John R »

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2019
Designer, Deluxe, (Professional, Expert, Basic), Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10 Pro (1803), 64-bit


* April 18, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
#25
I see we got the heavyweights looking at this post now!!! Cool!
Thank you Rip for your time here....

The error message only appears when we try rectangular arrays.  The message says non-plane pattern.  I am speachless for how the patterns we created went non-planar using the array tool while using the same work plane (WWP) with the polar array I get no problems.  I did try to modify the rectangular array by setting it to current workplane and it did jumble up.  This is really wierd.  Would someone in development take a look at this for us?  Try creating a new design - or even use the one I posted and see if they can extrude the rectangular array.  If they can, then maybe they could ask us for screen shot of our program settings to see if we need to make any kind of changes.  I will say this - I have my RDSK turned off.  not sure if that would affect tolerances of plane snaps. 

Again, thanks to everyone for your input here, we'll get it figured out I'm sure.

Eddie.

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* April 18, 2013, 11:33:30 AM
#26
What I'm failing to understand is the blue marker (in edit mode) which I assumed was a height marker, when I create a simple flat array the marker is always 1 inch above the pattern whereas in radius pattern its on the same workplane as the pattern.

no idea if that makes a difference or not, just trying various things out.

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* April 18, 2013, 11:43:35 AM
#27
The attached PDF is why I hope we get this figured out.  I have 3 sides to a 4 side enclosure that I'd like to use pattern holes with rather than trying to select each hole and extrude it.  The one attached is laid out in flat pattern which will be folded after the holes are punched. 

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* April 18, 2013, 11:54:22 AM
#28
I tried Windows 7 and was able to use multiple Patterns in an extrusion; as long as it was on the WWP. Everything was the same as Vista.
Windows 7 Home Premium.

re: What template did you use?
No template, "New from Scratch". I almost always use 'Scratch', as I have most of the Defaults set the way I want them. I have a custom Architectural template that I use when the need arises.

I tried it with the file you posted, John... and get the same error message. Tried several times using my own file from scratch... same error message.

As I said... all the other pattern tools work without any errors.

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AMD Phenom 1090T
8GB RAM
Radeon 5450 1GB
Windows 7
Redsdk  - Off
Editing History - On
v19.2 Platinum, x64


* April 18, 2013, 12:41:39 PM
#29
I just pain stakenly punched all the holes manually in my front panel (attached PDf) and folded it.  The fold works great!  I'm trying to stall doing the others in case we figure out why rectangular patterns won't extrude.
EM

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* April 18, 2013, 02:44:44 PM
#30
I just pain stakenly punched all the holes manually in my front panel (attached PDf) and folded it. 

Personally for the time being I'd suggest using 3D patterns, for example with the squares extrude one (or give it thickness), pattern array, subtract, - its only 2D arrays that are the problem.

Andy

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* April 18, 2013, 03:04:18 PM
#31
Good point Andy.  I'll do that instead of pulling each one thru the plate.  I do hope TC support folks see this post and take a look for us.  I feel they are and will.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but should we post this in the problem category now?
EM

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* April 18, 2013, 03:23:58 PM
#32
I wouldn't bother starting a problem thread, I've already sent a link to this thread to customer support, yeh I know Rip looked at this but I sent it as a reminder.

Andy

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* April 18, 2013, 03:37:57 PM
#33
Eddie

One last thing - be sure to save the file often as I did manage to crash TC with too much editing, (I edited the 3D pattern shape after bending the box), I get the same thing with too much constraints editing, I think TC 20 needs the program closing and re-opening every now and then to clean away the cobwebs.

Andy

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April 18, 2013, 05:22:08 PM
#34
HI Rip

Do you mean John's file or Eddie's original, the problem occurs even if one use a single circle on a simple 3 x 3 pattern

The file that John posted.  All objects in a compound profile must have the same coordinate system otherwise you will receive the non planer message.

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


* April 18, 2013, 06:37:20 PM
#35
Rip

Try this one, very simple - should the array be able to extrude like the radial one does ?.

Andy

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* April 18, 2013, 08:51:31 PM
#36
Thanks John and Greg,  I wonder if Henry is still using XP which would account for it working for him.

I can't think what there is in Win 8 and Win 7 that could be causing a problem,  I'll send a ticket to support to see what they say.

Thanks
Andy

Yup.

Henry H

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