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Furniture Maker v7
Read 19676 times
May 18, 2009, 03:21:26 PM
Furniture Maker v7 is now available.

http://www.turbocad.com/TurboCAD/TurboCADforWindows/Plugins/FurnitureMakerv7/tabid/138/Default.aspx

For information about pricing and upgrades contact our sales department.

[email protected]
800-833-8082

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


May 20, 2009, 01:29:31 PM
#1
Thanks Rip.
Are you offering a free trial?

The blurb says "Export furniture data to CSV or XML format"
Is the output to .csv just for parametric parts or all the Turbocad modelspace drawing content? And does that include the parts which are in a block or group?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 01:33:11 PM by Alan C »

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Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


May 20, 2009, 03:08:24 PM
#2
Alan,

Furniture maker is made by a third party developer.  Unfortunatly there is no trial that I know of.  You may want to contact Spinar Software.

http://www.spinar.cz/

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Rip Fowler
IMSIDesign LLC


May 21, 2009, 02:08:41 PM
#3
Thanks Rip for explaining.

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Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* May 27, 2009, 09:37:01 AM
#4
Alan,

I have contacted the makers of Furniture maker and they have a 15 day trial. You just have to send them an e-mail.
They can modify the csv export to your wishes.
Here a part of the answer;
"TCFMv7 offers export in csv, but if you describe me exactly your csv format
I can to modify this for you."

I have a look at Furniture maker and the export posibillity to "Cutlist", as soon if I have time.

Jan

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* July 02, 2009, 06:18:24 AM
#5
The site is in Chek -- so how do you contact them? I would like to give it a try...

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


July 02, 2009, 02:37:04 PM
#6
Alan,

I have contacted the makers of Furniture maker and they have a 15 day trial. You just have to send them an e-mail.
They can modify the csv export to your wishes.
Here a part of the answer;
"TCFMv7 offers export in csv, but if you describe me exactly your csv format
I can to modify this for you."

I have a look at Furniture maker and the export posibillity to "Cutlist", as soon if I have time.

Jan
Thanks Jan. Sorry to respond so late. 16.1 is released today with addition of woodworker .csv for those with the plugin, so maybe we are spoilt for choice at last ;) Too much to do to look yet.

Kind regards, Alan.

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Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* July 16, 2009, 10:31:38 AM
#7
Alan,

I have contacted the makers of Furniture maker and they have a 15 day trial. You just have to send them an e-mail.
They can modify the csv export to your wishes.
Here a part of the answer;
"TCFMv7 offers export in csv, but if you describe me exactly your csv format
I can to modify this for you."

I have a look at Furniture maker and the export posibillity to "Cutlist", as soon if I have time.

Jan
Thanks Jan. Sorry to respond so late. 16.1 is released today with addition of woodworker .csv for those with the plugin, so maybe we are spoilt for choice at last ;) Too much to do to look yet.

Kind regards, Alan.

I'll try again -- how can we reach these guys -- I would like to try it. It might work for me!!

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


* July 16, 2009, 01:15:15 PM
#8
Will,
I have contacted them on their website e-mail
http://www.spinar.cz/english/

Jan

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* July 20, 2009, 04:31:08 AM
#9
Will,
I have contacted them on their website e-mail
http://www.spinar.cz/english/

Jan

Yes ...
I did too. I just received a return email.

They tell me I can buy it from IMSI -- so perhaps you were given special treatment, or they did not understand the email.

Regardless perhaps I can find another product -- evaluation takes enough time paying full price to determine if the product is useful.

Appreciate the thought though.


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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


* July 22, 2009, 05:42:26 AM
#10
Will,
I have contacted them on their website e-mail
http://www.spinar.cz/english/

Jan

Yes ...
I did too. I just received a return email.

They tell me I can buy it from IMSI -- so perhaps you were given special treatment, or they did not understand the email.

Regardless perhaps I can find another product -- evaluation takes enough time paying full price to determine if the product is useful.

Appreciate the thought though.



I received a copy thanks to the efforts at IMSI and will test ASAP.
Thank you.

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


* July 28, 2009, 03:05:15 PM
#11
Will,
I have contacted them on their website e-mail
http://www.spinar.cz/english/

Jan

Yes ...
I did too. I just received a return email.

They tell me I can buy it from IMSI -- so perhaps you were given special treatment, or they did not understand the email.

Regardless perhaps I can find another product -- evaluation takes enough time paying full price to determine if the product is useful.

Appreciate the thought though.



I received a copy thanks to the efforts at IMSI and will test ASAP.
Thank you.


Working my way through FM7. 

Like most products it has some really good points and some bad ones. Can't say I like the cut list optimizer -- but it seems quite usable and able to distinguish the various woods. So that part is OK.

The cut list section does not print labels -- so that makes me wonder... Even we produce enough parts that it is not possible to cope (easily?) without printed labels. Maybe someone "in power" could contact them and suggest a label printer at least as good (bad?) as CutList Plus. :)


Last time I bought a software product from the Czech Republic I had to re-write the manual to make the product useful -- maybe I should make the same offer (sigh). But this time I am going to ask for royalties on the sale of the company -- that's what happened last time -- they sold out...  A good manual can make a big difference to first time users.

I finally figured out after a day how to modify cabinets already placed... Then life gets easier.

The product videos... welll -- a little fast. Whoever is creating should keep in mind that the object is for us to follow them -- your virtuosity and speed may be admirable -- but clarity of intent and method is better. They also suffer form the viewer not seeing the overall method and intent. It is definitely not easy to follow the methodology -- a written explanation of the various steps that will be carried out -- with clear breaks between the sections would be great.

So finally I produced some room drawings and they seem to be OK -- I checked them with a measuring tape against the real room and they are good witin the tolerances of room squareness and measurement accuracy. So you can be confident that a drawing produced with FM7 will match against your measurements, cabinet sizes and expected variations (rooms out of square etc.). That is the expected performance.


The install did not work properly on Vista 64. I had to determine that there was an ini file and correct the location of the cutlist data files -- then that worked. At least they used an ini file -- good move guys.

The data file had commas for decimal points -- again, the "materials.fmi" file was in text -- so I edited that with wordpad to strike the ",'s" and replace them with ".'s" and that worked too -- then I got cut patterns -- but no darn labels -- sheeeessh...

I also asked for Metric and English measurement templates on the install -- I use both -- I got only English (Imperial) measurement... Maybe I misunderstood the the install routine and the manual (it was in Czinglish after all  :) --- ).


Would I buy it? Give me decent label printing routines and yes -- well probably... CutList Plus is about $300 or more for Gold version and up if you don't want to be limited by the number of parts and combining of all the cabinets...

The program does need some serious smoothing out, and they need to address terminology. I was quite baffled by some references -- e.g "areal" goods -- we call them sheet goods, working table -- we call it "Counter Top" more often, "wiresystem" -- we call it electrical fixtures...


They have no appliances -- so you have to use the TC versions -- no big deal I guess on that.

This could be a great product if they do some terminology cleanup, make the install more clear, add lables and fix a few other minor issues. Currently it is usable  -- but really irritating.

 
Lots of work to do to finish evaluation.


« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 03:07:09 PM by WillR »

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


July 28, 2009, 05:43:07 PM
#12
The cut list section does not print labels --

Quick question Will. I am not familiar with what you call 'label printing routines'. Are these actual hard copy labels that you stick on the real world parts to identify them? If not, can you elaborate on what that is an maybe supply a link where I can see an example?


* July 29, 2009, 06:00:18 AM
#13
The cut list section does not print labels --

Quick question Will. I am not familiar with what you call 'label printing routines'. Are these actual hard copy labels that you stick on the real world parts to identify them? If not, can you elaborate on what that is an maybe supply a link where I can see an example?


Exactly. Hard copy -- stick on the parts.

It is necessary to mark the boards in some way. After you break down four to ten sheets your memory goes fuzzy. If there is only a difference of a few mm in a part, it is easy to start banding the wrong edges, or drilling system holes or construction holes in the wrong piece.

So a label usually has the following as a minimum.

Part ID xxxxx  (Copy 1 of 1)
Thickness X Width X Length (units)
Part Name   | SA

Where SA == Sub Assembly.

If you are merging projects, it should also have the assembly name, and perhaps the sub-assembly name.

Cutlist is pretty bad actually -- it is a curious mix of big shop and small shop techniques -- you should have a look at it. Though I am not sure you can print labels from the demo.

Cutlist is missing the Unit Name, and the Project Name.

So to me a good label would have at least the follwoing...

Project: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Unit Name:     xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
SA: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Part Name: xxxxxxxxxxxx  (Copy 1 of 1)
Dim:  T X W X L Units: uuu
Material: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The copy number is used for things like two sides on a cabinet -- or maybe you are making four cabinets of different widths -- but they should all be the same height. So the label need only identify the part usage -- not as belonging to a particular cabinet in the run.

Material isn't necessary -- but it's a good check -- if you grabbed the wrong goods -- you might stop after one mistaken cut...  :) And some materials look the same to some workers PB MDF -- all the same eh?


Writing all of this on the part means a cleaning operation after the build -- not always possible -- or you have to write your own labels by hand -- time consuming and error prone. On melamine ok -- on cherry 3/4 " VC Plywood -- no way. (oops sorry -- 18, 19 or 20 mm Veneer Core Plywood, with Cherry Veneer covering -- for those who don't know the jargon or are used to Metric numbers...  :-[)

A big shop would likely find the package useless on this point alone. Even I am reluctant to implement -- as It would allow me to merge all my work into one run -- meaning I would cut say 10 to 20 panels at a time and have a collection of PB Melamine I could not identify. It would actually slow down the production.

Their csv export is useless for import into another package like cutlist. All they need is the info I suggested above. However, with a label printout, they would be competing with the High End cutlist package very favorably.

If after optimization they exported the raw sheet usage -- which they know -- and the dimensioned and rough lumber usage -- that would feed back into a lot of ERP systems -- giving them a closed loop manufacturing package for the small shop. This would be enormously valuable even for simple updating inventory.

Based on my previous software experience in manufacturing systems, I could probably have this designed, documented and implemented in a month -- including all the feedback mechanisms etc.

The labels with documentation are about a weeks work in a small software company -- including design, implementation and documentation. And yes -- even I could do this in an afternoon -- but documentations and thorough testing take time.

Does this make sense?


I added quite a bit on that edit to make it more clear.

Another note.

I am sure they are using a "Report Writer Add on to whatever tool they are using -- if not they should get one. I use the tool with Codegear Delphi Enterprise -- built into the compiler, -- and with access to the parts file for a project could have a variety of label formats implemented quickly (an afternoon). The real issue is documenting and allowing a routine which allows you to run multiple labels across and down and set spacing -- or else having a variety of label formats (for commonly available labels) built in and clearly identified so that you can stock labels appropriately.

I will keep reviewing and post here my results. I am reluctant to do a lot more than what I have done here in terms of design recommendations. Last time I did not get much of the financial benefit of my work. :) Labels are kind of a simple issue though.





« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 06:30:24 AM by WillR »

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


July 29, 2009, 08:16:58 AM
#14
Exactly. Hard copy -- stick on the parts.....................

Thanks for the explanation Will. It all makes good sense. It sounds like you are part of a pretty large operation. Who do you work with, if I may ask?

When I was a commercial cabinet maker I worked for a smaller firm so we didn't need such intense documentation. We were usually working on one project at a time (a school, a hospital or some other institute). We would get the blueprints and each cabinet maker would get a section of the plans to create their own cut lists. Each cabinet maker would then cut their own materials and assemble. It was nice because you still felt like a craftsman and not an assembly line worker, although there we some people that wanted it to head that way. The only operation that one fellow did for all of us was to apply any sprayed finish when necessary. That was not necessary very often as we did a lot of p-lam covered ply and melamine. Occasionally we would get some real sweet work creating fancy furnishings for restaurants, offices and retail outlets. I miss much about this line of work. Although the CAD work is still a pretty good creative outlet, it does not compare to hands on real world cabinet making.


* July 29, 2009, 09:01:27 AM
#15
Exactly. Hard copy -- stick on the parts.....................

Thanks for the explanation Will. It all makes good sense. It sounds like you are part of a pretty large operation. Who do you work with, if I may ask?

When I was a commercial cabinet maker I worked for a smaller firm so we didn't need such intense documentation. We were usually working on one project at a time (a school, a hospital or some other institute). We would get the blueprints and each cabinet maker would get a section of the plans to create their own cut lists. Each cabinet maker would then cut their own materials and assemble. It was nice because you still felt like a craftsman and not an assembly line worker, although there we some people that wanted it to head that way. The only operation that one fellow did for all of us was to apply any sprayed finish when necessary. That was not necessary very often as we did a lot of p-lam covered ply and melamine. Occasionally we would get some real sweet work creating fancy furnishings for restaurants, offices and retail outlets. I miss much about this line of work. Although the CAD work is still a pretty good creative outlet, it does not compare to hands on real world cabinet making.

Uh no... I'm not!

But I have automated some companies with revenues (eventually) in the billions and learned a few hard lessons. Small manufacturers are fun to automate -- often with automation and optimization they can drop one or two shifts -- or triple their output -- their choice -- and I have done it.


I have done manufacturing systems and learned how to take a small operation and give them tools to grow to any size they desired and could other wise support. In the past I worked for some big companies and grew them from small companies to very large. In all cases I used technology to get rid of the error prone manual steps so a guy could just do his job..


Right now we have two people struggling to crank out a hundred or so cabinets -- without CutlistPlus it would be a serious pita!!!!! It is still a pain -- but the right tools could make it manageable.

FM7 has the potential to be a small time product or a very big product -- simply depending on the use made of it and the viewpoint held.

Like you I like to concentrate on the real work -- not the details.

If the developers take their product seriously and just make the changes I suggested it would allow a small cabinet shop to run comfortably and with minimal paperwork or allow them to smooth out everything and grow very large -- without changing packages and shifting gears.

Give me TurboCad, FM7 The CAM package and a CNC machine and two or three developers and integrators, a company with a small ERP and I could  show them how to get real serious about the cabinet business. There are a lot of companies like that -- with two to three times the staff they need or cranking out 1/3 what they are capable of. And I am not talking about creating sweatshop conditions either... quite the opposite.


Maybe I'll get back into the biz!!!! ;D


BTW -- my emails to Spinar support get returned -- so they don't need any help or fixes -- I guess.   ::)


« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 09:04:15 AM by WillR »

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


* August 05, 2009, 08:39:36 PM
#16
Thanks for the explanation... will it make sense? I am looking forward for your next post.



_________________
Patio furniture

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* August 07, 2009, 05:45:35 AM
#17
Thanks for the explanation... will it make sense? I am looking forward for your next post.



_________________
Patio furniture

I have ordered a new machine so that the rendering is acceptable.(Perhaps less unaccepatble is the right phrase.)


Hopefully -- if the trial has not expired I can continue testing next week.

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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


October 04, 2009, 02:03:39 PM
#18
Hi Will,

Only just seen your discussion with Don and Redsky17. Been tied up recently.
You seem pretty fixed on labels. I can see the advantage of a label carrying more info, but there is risk of label on one extreme peeling off, and the other of being time consuming to remove a quantity of them. Also when boards are stacked on top of each other they can get hidden. I pencil part numbers onto board ends, stacking same way each time, keeping numbering short and logical, so components have part numbers close to each other. With planing and sanding, end marking has obvious advantages, as long as marks are replaced after trimming to length.
This overall topic has been going on so long that my memory is getting fuzzy as to what has and hasn't been covered and I'm in danger of going round in circles. For cabinets, Ecab systems may still be more efficient perhaps, being everything within one program, except for reduced ability to design non standard features. I'm still with TC11 for real work mainly for familiarity reasons, and enjoying ability to delta edit cabinet sizes of TC 3d surfaces, though I did take advantage of Alibre's recent £100 Standard offer just in case because of ability to drive from Excel, but haven't used it. Can't really see myself doing anything other than Turbocad 11 any time soon, as we know, it is a trusty tool with which you can knock up stuff from scratch pretty fast.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 02:09:58 PM by Alan C »

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Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* October 07, 2009, 05:12:49 AM
#19
Hi Will,

Only just seen your discussion with Don and Redsky17. Been tied up recently.
You seem pretty fixed on labels. I can see the advantage of a label carrying more info, but there is risk of label on one extreme peeling off, and the other of being time consuming to remove a quantity of them. Also when boards are stacked on top of each other they can get hidden. I pencil part numbers onto board ends, stacking same way each time, keeping numbering short and logical, so components have part numbers close to each other. With planing and sanding, end marking has obvious advantages, as long as marks are replaced after trimming to length.
This overall topic has been going on so long that my memory is getting fuzzy as to what has and hasn't been covered and I'm in danger of going round in circles. For cabinets, Ecab systems may still be more efficient perhaps, being everything within one program, except for reduced ability to design non standard features. I'm still with TC11 for real work mainly for familiarity reasons, and enjoying ability to delta edit cabinet sizes of TC 3d surfaces, though I did take advantage of Alibre's recent £100 Standard offer just in case because of ability to drive from Excel, but haven't used it. Can't really see myself doing anything other than Turbocad 11 any time soon, as we know, it is a trusty tool with which you can knock up stuff from scratch pretty fast.


Labels...

Yes we use them.

They stick to melamine just fine. Even on veneer plywood there is little glue residue -- and solvent gets rid of it.

And a stack of 100 parts that all look alike get identified a lot faster.

When stacking initially or perhaps later we put all the "matching" pieces together.

As far as trimming goes -- we use a Festool track saw -- the first cut is the final cut -- no trimming.

Anyway -- we just hate having to clean up all the pencil marks.


Logged
WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


October 07, 2009, 03:20:29 PM
#20
I still prefer end marks, most either get covered or can be at the bottom, or need sanding anyway, but joints can be an issue. One day there will probably be an invisible print labeler, viewable with special torch or spectacles, advanced sort of ultra violet. For the time being, we all have our various preferences. Something very useful I find for using up short lengths of timber, is we store them all at the top of a rack, ends facing toward us, each has its length written on the end, and they are stacked in order of length. The stock quantity stays pretty static, because they get used as much as they are added to.

Alan.

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Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* October 07, 2009, 03:27:44 PM
#21
I still prefer end marks, most either get covered or can be at the bottom, or need sanding anyway, but joints can be an issue. One day there will probably be an invisible print labeler, viewable with special torch or spectacles, advanced sort of ultra violet. For the time being, we all have our various preferences. Something very useful I find for using up short lengths of timber, is we store them all at the top of a rack, ends facing toward us, each has its length written on the end, and they are stacked in order of length. The stock quantity stays pretty static, because they get used as much as they are added to.

Alan.

That is a Kanban system. (Japanese, see Demming)

We are doing custom job shop. Every 4X8 piece we break down is to a different pattern.

Quite different animals -- nothing to do with preference.


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WillR
SW:TC 21 Pro Platinum, FM15, 20 Pro Platinum 64 Bit, also V 19.1 64Bit & 32 bit 17.2 and 18.1; Furniture Maker 14 and 10. HW: Vista 64 Ultimate, AMD 1090 (6 core) 8GB memory Plus also an AMD  8 core systemFX


* July 18, 2010, 02:38:23 PM
#22
I contacted them and I got no reply.

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July 18, 2010, 02:52:46 PM
#23
I contacted them and I got no reply.
Turbotech promised to help:
If anybody is still having trouble please send me an e-mail or a personal message through the forum.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)