TurboCAD Forums

The Ultimate Resource for TurboCAD Knowledge

Register
 
Be sure your post is relevant to the current discussion.  Create a new topic within the appropriate board if you are unsure.

Furniture Maker V12
Read 5431 times
March 03, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
I purchased Furniture Maker V12 and have just begun to learn it's ins and outs. I haven't produced must with it yet but I do like the program so far. I think it'll be great for how I intend to use it. It comes with a very nice set of materials and textures in my opinion.

When pressing the "Generate" button it takes a while for the input window to open. Does anyone else experience this?

I wondered if any others here on the forum have purchased V12 and what your thoughts on this version are.

Logged
BradE [ dean3Design ]
Core i7-3930K CPU @ 4.20GHz, 32GB 1333 DDR3, FirePro V5900
TC 21 Platinum (64-Bit) Running on Win7 Pro SP1


March 03, 2013, 05:19:18 PM
#1
Brad

Is it still using a hidden layer to hide the other door styles?

Does it work in 64bit TC?.....the details says 32bit only..

Does it still rely on the symbol graphics being TC surfaces?

Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 03, 2013, 06:08:29 PM
#2
I hadn't paid much attention to the layers yet, but yes there's a layer named "invisible" that holds the other door and handle styles. Interesting.

I'm using FM V12 with 64bit TC V20. The part of the program that is used from within TC seems to run correctly. During installation the 64bit versions of TC are recognized when the installer asks which version of TC to use. There are also instructions for installing the materials to 64bit TC in the getting started guide. The DAEX software is installed as a 32bit application and runs outside of TC.

The Selection Info palette does reveal the cabinet to be made up of surface objects. I wonder why they would choose surfaces over solids. Have you experienced any issues with that Darrel?

Logged
BradE [ dean3Design ]
Core i7-3930K CPU @ 4.20GHz, 32GB 1333 DDR3, FirePro V5900
TC 21 Platinum (64-Bit) Running on Win7 Pro SP1


March 04, 2013, 02:01:45 AM
#3
Brad

I think they need to change the requirements if it is working with 64bit.... how I read it it's telling me I cannot us it on my TC 64 bit install.

Yeah the invisible layer is not a good solution for professional use. The customer file could get quite massive in MB! If you think about it, what if you want to add a new style to your door choices? you would have to go through all your existing symbols and add it and also if you open a drawing you have already created, you would have to delete all existing symbols and reinsert the symbols again.

Surfaces are okay but not if you want to bend a door or modify something within the symbol that can only be done on a solid. They have had to make the symbol surface graphics due to the programming "stretching" without side slab deformation. It would be nice if this stretching could be done on all the selected solids, currently only one at a time.... I am sure one day this will be possible.

My solution for now works for me, it has many benefits:
1. if a door is not available or has to be cut from a larger one in a fascia range it has info within the symbol to inform the designer/customer. (see image below)
2. Easy to maintain and add content.
3. I do not have to go into a symbol to add the doors.
4. All symbol graphics are solids
5. Faster insertion as there are not multiple hidden door styles
6. Faster changing of door styles, worktop profiles, handles etc.




Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 03:39:43 AM
#4
Brad

I think they need to change the requirements if it is working with 64bit.... how I read it it's telling me I cannot us it on my TC 64 bit install.

Yeah the invisible layer is not a good solution for professional use. The customer file could get quite massive in MB! If you think about it, what if you want to add a new style to your door choices? you would have to go through all your existing symbols and add it and also if you open a drawing you have already created, you would have to delete all existing symbols and reinsert the symbols again.

Surfaces are okay but not if you want to bend a door or modify something within the symbol that can only be done on a solid. They have had to make the symbol surface graphics due to the programming "stretching" without side slab deformation. It would be nice if this stretching could be done on all the selected solids, currently only one at a time.... I am sure one day this will be possible.

My solution for now works for me, it has many benefits:
1. if a door is not available or has to be cut from a larger one in a fascia range it has info within the symbol to inform the designer/customer. (see image below)
2. Easy to maintain and add content.
3. I do not have to go into a symbol to add the doors.
4. All symbol graphics are solids
5. Faster insertion as there are not multiple hidden door styles
6. Faster changing of door styles, worktop profiles, handles etc.




Brad and Darrel, appreciating your input on this subject. I also tried Furniture Maker in a much earlier version, liked aspects of it but found the hidden layer perplexing at the time as it limited the program for more general use and flexibility is always handy. Darrel, what are you using if anything to achieve BOM part sizes and info output? I have dabbled today with TC 20 platinum database, but can't get to grips with it and the help file is very limited. Best regards, Alan.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


March 04, 2013, 03:52:43 AM
#5


Yeah the TC database is quite powerful and it looks at all graphics, even on hidden layers. this can be exported as a csv or excel file

The good thing it that a TC box can be used to get Width x Height x Depth so for door dimensions I have a layer called "Guide Fascias" for me to use for the fascias dimensions and also easy placement of the door graphics using 'centre of extents' when creating the symbols.

I will post a few more details soon...


Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 04:40:43 AM
#6


Yeah the TC database is quite powerful and it looks at all graphics, even on hidden layers. this can be exported as a csv or excel file

The good thing it that a TC box can be used to get Width x Height x Depth so for door dimensions I have a layer called "Guide Fascias" for me to use for the fascias dimensions and also easy placement of the door graphics using 'centre of extents' when creating the symbols.

I will post a few more details soon...


Thanks Darrel, I am just trying to get database fields and report etc to work for me now. Currently working my way through https://turbocaddoc.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TC20UG/Step+1-+Define+Custom+Fields
Alan.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


March 04, 2013, 05:08:34 AM
#7
Yeah...

I am using a couple of custom fields in my symbol library.

Item and Item Text:

This holds the details of the following - Fascia, Carcass part (back, top rail, bottom, shelf etc)

Don't do any solid transforms to these as the size info goes due to it loosing the TC Box height x width x length.... Things like diagonal shelves I have created a Carcass Guide layer that holds the overall panel size and is hidden when planning and a visual graphic that depicts the diagonal cuts of the T & B and shelves etc.

Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 05:22:24 AM
#8
Yeah...

I am using a couple of custom fields in my symbol library.

Item and Item Text:

This holds the details of the following - Fascia, Carcass part (back, top rail, bottom, shelf etc)

Don't do any solid transforms to these as the size info goes due to it loosing the TC Box height x width x length.... Things like diagonal shelves I have created a Carcass Guide layer that holds the overall panel size and is hidden when planning and a visual graphic that depicts the diagonal cuts of the T & B and shelves etc.
I am still trying to find how to use the box to grasp dimensional info. I have tended to keep my models as surface based 3d and changing them to solid just to do boolean operations. Reason is two fold, to make delta edit resizing easier and to keep drawing size small and consequently agile.
Alan.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


March 04, 2013, 05:26:12 AM
#9
Yeah...

I am using a couple of custom fields in my symbol library.

Item and Item Text:

This holds the details of the following - Fascia, Carcass part (back, top rail, bottom, shelf etc)

Don't do any solid transforms to these as the size info goes due to it loosing the TC Box height x width x length.... Things like diagonal shelves I have created a Carcass Guide layer that holds the overall panel size and is hidden when planning and a visual graphic that depicts the diagonal cuts of the T & B and shelves etc.
Darrel, regarding custom fields, you say you have one for part description, is there a reason for this rather than using attribute for 'back, top, rail, bottom, shelf etc' which presumably can be automatically included?

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


March 04, 2013, 05:34:13 AM
#10
You could use that....I think I made a custom field because if I used the Attribute info things like dimension text and other things I didn't want to have on the report get included....starts to look a mess and confusing  :P

Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 05:53:48 AM
#11
To get the box info onto your report you need to add it into the report template. If you expand the the box tree you will see the Height, width & length click on these and pull across on to the report.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 05:56:09 AM by Darrel Carl Durose »

Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 06:37:15 AM
#12
Alan
Size info is only available for certain solid primitives. FM clearly uses code and goes through all the objects in the group/s. I did get VBA from excel to get the bounding box info and I think a ruby script could be made to get this also....
Obviously you are wanting more from your reports than me....i.e. 5 piece door part sizes etc...

It would be nice if the facet editor could alter more than one graphic at a time on solids....maybe one day.... ::)

Logged
Daz...
V2016 64-Bit & 32 Bit Platinum Edition - Build 61.2
RedSDK Only in 64 bit & 32 bit = RedSDK & Lightworks
TurboCAD user since V3 and Turbocad 3D V1.
OS Windows7 Pro 64bit Lenovo W701 Laptop, 12GB Ram, 2 x 128 SSD harddrives, NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M Graphics, Intel i7 CPU...


March 04, 2013, 07:12:39 AM
#13
Alan
Size info is only available for certain solid primitives. FM clearly uses code and goes through all the objects in the group/s. I did get VBA from excel to get the bounding box info and I think a ruby script could be made to get this also....
Obviously you are wanting more from your reports than me....i.e. 5 piece door part sizes etc...

It would be nice if the facet editor could alter more than one graphic at a time on solids....maybe one day.... ::)
Thanks Darrel. That's disappointing. Back to the state of indecision about which Cad/design program to use. There is one particular one I will be exploring some more, a shame, had high hopes for V20. Still not very woodworker friendly for those of us who need to output data automatically into Cutlistplus.
Alan.
Alan.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* March 05, 2013, 02:28:35 PM
#14
Alan
Size info is only available for certain solid primitives. FM clearly uses code and goes through all the objects in the group/s. I did get VBA from excel to get the bounding box info and I think a ruby script could be made to get this also....
Obviously you are wanting more from your reports than me....i.e. 5 piece door part sizes etc...

It would be nice if the facet editor could alter more than one graphic at a time on solids....maybe one day.... ::)
Thanks Darrel. That's disappointing. Back to the state of indecision about which Cad/design program to use. There is one particular one I will be exploring some more, a shame, had high hopes for V20. Still not very woodworker friendly for those of us who need to output data automatically into Cutlistplus.
Alan.
Alan.

Alan,

I am currently working to set up a template for drawing cabinets that will use the database reports and then export that to excel which will go to cutlistplus.  Like Darrel I am using the solid primitive box tool for this to get the part sizes in the report.  I am making the individual parts, give each one a name, attach any custom properties I want (such as a material type and name), assign a material by block and create a block.  I then assemble a cabinet using the blocks, group, attach a custom property (cabinet name) and create another block.  I don't use attributes (although I would like to) because the way I work, I need to explode the cabinet block for editing to create each individual cabinet, which then loses the attribute from the block.  For parts that I need to do booleans to or other transformations to I will employ Darrel's method of creating a box to get the size of the part and either hiding it on a separate layer or using the invisible pen (haven't got that far yet).  I do wish there was a way to get sizes from parts after they have been transformed, but I haven't found it yet.

As far as getting part sizes for things like five piece doors, one can easily set up an excel template to calculate those from the overall size of the door.  This way you could just copy and paste the door sizes into the template and presto instant part sizes.  This could also work for drawer parts if needed also.  I typically outsource my doors so all I need are the overall sizes.

For mouldings, I just create the 2D profile then rail sweep to a polyline.  To get the lineal length of the mouldings for the report, add the length attribute from the common field in the available fields box of the report edit dialog box.

One other nice thing about the database, is that you can create a number of different reports.  You could create one to give you the carcase parts for instance, one for drawers, one for doors, mouldings/hardware, etc.  Whatever you need to suit the way you work.  This too can make it easy to send to cutlistplus.  The database can also look into any x-refs as well as groups and blocks you have inserted. 

You can tell the database to look at the whole drawing, model space, or even just whatever you have selected, say for instance if you need to go back to an earlier drawing and make some changes and want to make a report of just those changes.

Hopefully something here helps you.

Dan


Logged
Deluxe 16.2
Pro Platinum 18.2
Running on HP HDX laptop w/win7 Home Intel Duo Core, 2.53GHz 4GB RAM, 64Bit OS


March 06, 2013, 02:57:56 AM
#15
Dan, thank you for all that information which is certainly extremely interesting. I experimented years ago with using blocks to update drawings with different materials etc, but now the later versions certainly have much better database facilities. I have yet to use Xrefs. I presume you are using turbocad solids in your blocks. I've liked to use surface based 3d except when using the boolean functions as I am forever needing to adjust sizes slightly, like in my next job I have had to design prior to a room being subsequently studded, insulated and plasterboarded, so inevitably there will be adjustments to sizes required and that is easy using delta editing, especially if there is not too deep nesting of blocks and groups. I used to use my own excel formula wizards for door part sizes a lot when I designed in 2d.
Please keep us updated with your progress. My own next task is to evaluate sketchup dynamic components with the intention of having easy control for door size and cabinet size adjustments. I remain open to finding most efficient solution at the moment.
Best regards,
Alan.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)


* March 06, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
#16
Alan,

I've just started using Xrefs myself.  So far I'm trying to keep that to objects that won't require much editing after insertion.  Yes I am using solids, but only for the last year as I just upgraded to 18 Plat.   Before that I was at 16 Deluxe.  When you say you need to adjust sizes using delta editing, do you delta edit nodes?  I can see how that would be easy.  I guess I don't know the difference between surface objects and solids when they are made into blocks.  I suspect in order to node edit a surface block or group of blocks they would have to be exploded back to the object level?  Which would then nullify the advantages of blocks, correct?  In that case to speed up the drawing I would think it would make sense to use symbols instead.  I do like using blocks though because it makes for much faster drawing when I can just drag n drop a cabinet, make some size/name/material adjustments and move on as well as keeping file size manageable.  Also, it's easy to get the information I need for my reports.

My blocks are nested only twice ( I think ), and I usually will have to explode each instance one time anyway.  At least this is what I am planning for.  My planned methodology goes like this.  Start a new drawing with a floorplan, drag a cabinet block, explode once, this gets me to a group of blocks that are the individual cabinet parts.  The group does two things, first makes it easy to select the cabinets, second allows me to give that cabinet a name that helps to organize the report.  I then can resize the cabinet by going into group edit mode, selecting an appropriate iso veiw, selecting the appropriate block/blocks (cabinet part/parts) that need to move, delta move them, then select all the other blocks that need to resize to the moved blocks and stretch them to proper location.  I can also add other blocks as the design calls for.  Exit group edit.  Takes longer to type than to do of course.  The reasons I have developed this method is:
1: reduce drawing time
2: make it easy to make changes/updates 
3: Keep file sizes smaller 
4: Keep things flexible 
5: Have the ability to extract all the information I need in reports. 
6: Keep that information organized to make it easier to send to cutlistplus.   

It's taken a bit of  trial and error to get to this point but I think I am on the right path (at least I hope so!).  I certainly can keep everyone updated once I am comfortable this is working well (in a new thread).  I know Don Cheke created a tutorial a while back along these lines that actually inspired me to play with the database functions.  If there is anything here that he would like to use for a possible update to that tutorial or anything else he would like, he is most certainly welcome to it.

As far as doors go, that has been a source of frustration for me.  It's easy to draw, but very difficult to resize, unless you don't mind having the stiles and rails change width and make the door look distorted.  A little while ago, I successfully created a door that is easy to resize using constraints.  The next step for me is to make that a parametric part.  I was close once but couldn't find the right answer.  I've attached that file if you want to play with it.  I tried Sketchup too, but not being proficient with it, I was unable to make that work either, and gave up on it.

Good luck on your quest, and if I can be of assistance let me know.

Dan


Logged
Deluxe 16.2
Pro Platinum 18.2
Running on HP HDX laptop w/win7 Home Intel Duo Core, 2.53GHz 4GB RAM, 64Bit OS


March 07, 2013, 07:26:28 AM
#17
Alan,

I've just started using Xrefs myself.  So far I'm trying to keep that to objects that won't require much editing after insertion.  Yes I am using solids, but only for the last year as I just upgraded to 18 Plat.   Before that I was at 16 Deluxe.  When you say you need to adjust sizes using delta editing, do you delta edit nodes?  I can see how that would be easy.  I guess I don't know the difference between surface objects and solids when they are made into blocks.  I suspect in order to node edit a surface block or group of blocks they would have to be exploded back to the object level?  Which would then nullify the advantages of blocks, correct?  In that case to speed up the drawing I would think it would make sense to use symbols instead.  I do like using blocks though because it makes for much faster drawing when I can just drag n drop a cabinet, make some size/name/material adjustments and move on as well as keeping file size manageable.  Also, it's easy to get the information I need for my reports.

My blocks are nested only twice ( I think ), and I usually will have to explode each instance one time anyway.  At least this is what I am planning for.  My planned methodology goes like this.  Start a new drawing with a floorplan, drag a cabinet block, explode once, this gets me to a group of blocks that are the individual cabinet parts.  The group does two things, first makes it easy to select the cabinets, second allows me to give that cabinet a name that helps to organize the report.  I then can resize the cabinet by going into group edit mode, selecting an appropriate iso veiw, selecting the appropriate block/blocks (cabinet part/parts) that need to move, delta move them, then select all the other blocks that need to resize to the moved blocks and stretch them to proper location.  I can also add other blocks as the design calls for.  Exit group edit.  Takes longer to type than to do of course.  The reasons I have developed this method is:
1: reduce drawing time
2: make it easy to make changes/updates 
3: Keep file sizes smaller 
4: Keep things flexible 
5: Have the ability to extract all the information I need in reports. 
6: Keep that information organized to make it easier to send to cutlistplus.   

It's taken a bit of  trial and error to get to this point but I think I am on the right path (at least I hope so!).  I certainly can keep everyone updated once I am comfortable this is working well (in a new thread).  I know Don Cheke created a tutorial a while back along these lines that actually inspired me to play with the database functions.  If there is anything here that he would like to use for a possible update to that tutorial or anything else he would like, he is most certainly welcome to it.

As far as doors go, that has been a source of frustration for me.  It's easy to draw, but very difficult to resize, unless you don't mind having the stiles and rails change width and make the door look distorted.  A little while ago, I successfully created a door that is easy to resize using constraints.  The next step for me is to make that a parametric part.  I was close once but couldn't find the right answer.  I've attached that file if you want to play with it.  I tried Sketchup too, but not being proficient with it, I was unable to make that work either, and gave up on it.

Good luck on your quest, and if I can be of assistance let me know.

Dan


Hi Dan, Thanks for all that detail.
Yes, delta editing nodes, that is how I have been resizing doors, cabinets or even both together, which is why I am trying not to nest blocks too much. Frankly it can get challenging knowing how to organise layers so that what needs resizing is available, ie not in a group or block. If something is in a block [and is not containing other blocks] delta editing of nodes is possible within the edit block function, and if need be, so as not to alter other instances where that block may be used either currently or in the future, explode once and without loosing the selection, create block or create group with a new name. Not sure whether I have tried this in a late version, but certainly works in V11.
I used to use blocks a lot more than I do now due to program instability with groups, until I learnt that the instability was due to mixing solids, surfaces and 2d data in a group. Keeping 3d surfaces alone in groups cured the problem and spares me the problem of an over-busy block palette so just use blocks now where they really do have advantage over groups. Mostly my symbols are groups now. Blocks in symbols can have issues between drawings with regard to layers and changing naming conventions. Sometimes too much complication is a headache to manage as time goes by unless you have a very organised mind and regular routine. [I personally am too forgetful and work is varied.]

With your nested block techniques, you might find it useful to make a group of your block which you want to alter an instance of, without losing the block itself, then explode away the block characteristic of the block content within group edit. Do with it what you need to then perhaps come out of group edit, explode the group and while still selected, if you want to, make it a new block. Or just explode a block, reblock the selection to make a separate instance for block editing. I don't know about you, but I have block settings such that they remain in modelspace when creating a block.

I haven't tried turbocad constraints in a long time, it used to be quite difficult. Resizing doors which don't have shaped top rails is very easy for 3d surfaces by delta editing the nodes. To be honest though, my spare time at the moment moving into the future for the forseeable future will be becoming more proficient in sketchup because it already has capabilities I as a furniture maker have been banging on about here for years, like efficient output to cutlist plus but still TC is at least 2 years behind in my current opinion [in some areas]. The developers have had long enough I think and for me it is time to vote with my feet. Can't wait for ever, though I realise that it will MAYBE be only a matter of months before the necessary tweaks furniture makers need from Turbocad are put into place. It may need some heros with excellent Ruby scripting skills, look what people have used Ruby to do in sketchup, eg check out Fredo scale and Fredo tools, excellent free plugins! Sorry to plug something else but if it suggests some vision, it will be worth it for TC.
Al.

Logged
Alan.
Platinum 21. & Deluxe 21.
TC user since 1995. (version 3)