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Delux vs Pro
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* February 15, 2013, 02:34:53 PM
Right now, I am using TC 11 Pro.  I only do 2D work and was wondering about upgrading. I did not want to spring for a Pro version of the current TC and was wondering what I will be not getting if I upgrade to just the Delux version.

Any Ideas? Recommedations?

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 15, 2013, 02:51:02 PM
#1
I did not want to spring for a Pro version of the current TC and was wondering what I will be not getting if I upgrade to just the Delux version.Any Ideas? Recommedations?
Less tools so you won't become more bewildered or perplexed!!

http://www.turbocad.com/TurboCAD/TurboCADWindows/Upgrade/UpgradeCenter/DeluxePrev17Upgrade/tabid/1896/Default.aspx

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* February 15, 2013, 03:47:53 PM
#2
thanks wd may just spring for it at the lesser price.

OK... Do you know how to transfer over all my toolbars and settings to the new program? What are the config files. I tried copy and past the builtins folder of ver 11 to ver 19 but did not work. What files are the ones that contain the info as to what tools I have and where they are located, and the custom buttons I have assigned to the various toolbars?

Any Ideas?

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 15, 2013, 05:22:18 PM
#3
I would say its not a do able and if did accomplish it good chance it would crash the newer version;Your the first to ask this particular question.I Wouldn't attempt such a task with older version of that age.You can run 11.2 on W7 Pro and shouldn't have problem running Deluxe 19 on Xp.W8 from what I gather from other end users are having problems with 19.2 and 3rd update is set for a future date unknown.If update your operating system to W7 Pro or higher would be a better choice than can run both versions side by side

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Even a mistake may turn out to be the one thing necessary to a worthwhile achievement Henry Ford
If I have ever made any valuable discoveries it has been owing more to patient attention than to any other talent Isaac Newton
I have not failed Ive just found 10,000 ways that won't work Thomas Edison


* February 16, 2013, 04:15:25 AM
#4
wd thanks for the feedback

As far as these files, one of the reasons I am VERY slow to upgrade is because I take a lot of time setting up and customizing the buttons on my toolbars. Every time I upgrade TC ( or get a new computer and have to set up TC on it) I have had to go back and remake these toolbars and button placement and in the process relearn and try to remember what special button I have where, etc. Needless to say this is a reap pain.

In many programs there is a configuration file for such things and I copy and paste this to the new programs locations. For example photoshops macros (actions) are copied from the old folder and into the new programs folder.

Have been wanting to do this with TC for a long time.  I know that there is somewher very likely a file that has my menu structure in it.

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 16, 2013, 09:26:32 AM
#5
wd thanks for the feedback

As far as these files, one of the reasons I am VERY slow to upgrade is because I take a lot of time setting up and customizing the buttons on my toolbars. Every time I upgrade TC ( or get a new computer and have to set up TC on it) I have had to go back and remake these toolbars and button placement and in the process relearn and try to remember what special button I have where, etc. Needless to say this is a reap pain.

In many programs there is a configuration file for such things and I copy and paste this to the new programs locations. For example photoshops macros (actions) are copied from the old folder and into the new programs folder.

Have been wanting to do this with TC for a long time.  I know that there is somewher very likely a file that has my menu structure in it.

3acorns,

Read your TurboCAD Help or Manual or Wiki http://www3.turbocadcommunity.com/tiki-index.php?page=User Interface regarding Saving and Using Configuration Files.  It's very simple, and everyone uses the feature.

----
In TurboCAD version 11.2: Go to the menu-bar-> Tools|Customize and click around in there- before, during, and after doing some of your own research and reading on Saving your customized settings.

Do a little search, and research.... you'll find it.  It's exactly what you're asking for, and everytime I've re-installed my version 11.2 over the years- on existing systems or new systems- I've been able to easily retain and replicate my pre-existing customized Tools and Toolbars settings.

-Alvin

EDIT:  One thing I should tell you 3acorns, regarding Saving and Loading your customized Configuration files (you'll understand what that means after doing your research as described above):

A known issue/nuance using version 11.2 in the more recent Windows operating systems (this may not/should not be an issue for you if you are using Windows XP)->  We sometimes/oftentimes/always (for me, it's always on my Windows 7 system) when starting a new instance of Opening the TurboCAD program, in order to have my desired customized settings/config. file Load from the Config Folder, we/I have to:
  • go to Tools|Customize|Setup (or only that particular aspect page that you want to Load- such as "Menus", "Keyboard", "IntelliMouse")
  • click Reset All...
  • in that sub-page, choose Last Session; click OK
  • then- in the page that comes back up click Load From:, and- in the drop-down box- choose your Config file that you previously created (again, that will make sense after your research and self-education)
  • you will get a great big, scary warning!!! :-), but just click Yes
  • then just click Close
---Like I said, it's a "nuance" when using version 11.2 on newer operating systems.  I accept that- and don't blame the developers- because... heck... the new operating systems weren't even created yet when they developed version 11.  Can't blame TurboCAD or its developers.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 10:59:53 AM by Alvin Gregorio »

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 16, 2013, 01:16:19 PM
#6
OK, I am going to tussle with you  ;)


Yup  ... All of that what you said, and guess what?  In most other programs when I change the configuration, the system automatically updates a "configuration" file to reflect those settings, so that when I load the program again the configuration is "all set" and displayed. In other programs I use, as I stated earlier, all you have to do is copy the config file into the appropriate folder on a new computer and you are good to go.

Now then, what about TurboCad??? I can change a position of a menu, close my drawing, and when I load TC up again with any drawing my menus are laid out as before. WOW ... AUTOMATICALLY Just like other programs.

OK, where is the settings file that TurboCad uses to do this sticky layout? Where and what is the file that contains this memorized information? It is somewhere. It is named something. I would think that there is a named file that I can grab and use like I do for other programs.

I ask this to see what somebody's " little research and study" reveals.  I have changed stuff all over the place and I have not had to save ANY configuration and yet there is my menu and custom buttons laid out just like I left them  .. leading me (until a TC crash or a migration to a new computer), to believe that there is no reason to manually save a configuration.  Certainly, the TC help does not say that you have to do a manual "Save In" in order to really, really, save your configuration for use elsewhere. Indeed, the very behavior introduces an ambiguity of result, and leads a user to believe that you do NOT have to do a manual save in order to save a configuration, and that it is done automatically, because automatic saving of the configuration is being done right before the users eyes.

I should not have to hunt and peck and research and study past the Help. That is what the help is for, to tell users what is going on ... and what is not going on ... especially when the system behaves as if something is going on that really is not.


 The Challenge: I will pay 13 cents, via PayPal, to the first person that tells me the name and location of the file TurboCad uses to load my menus after I do the following sequential steps in a drawing:


#1 Tools|Customize
#2 Drag a button to a toolbar
#3 Execute a "Close" on the Customize Dialog
#4 Close TurboCad without Saving the Drawing

#5 Reopen TurboCad which shows the button right there on the tool bar where I placed it.

Offer limited to one 13 cent payment. After I pay 13 cents to somebody, regardless of any dispute from others as to the correctness of the answer, no more payments will be made.
 
 ;) ;D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 01:21:42 PM by 3acorns »

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 16, 2013, 02:24:53 PM
#7
This is where V11 is in Vista for me. Your current configurations are down in the AppData (Application Data) folder; normally a Hidden folder.

What I've always done in V11 (and before) is go to the "Setup" page of "Tools / Customize", overwrite the current name in the "Save In" list (like you do for Styles) then click on the Save In button. This creates a CFG file in the Config folder (located by your Drawings folder). When necessary, you can call up this configuration from the "Load From" list, then click on the "Load From" button. You can use that CFG file up to Version 17 or 18(?), after that it causes more problems than it's worth.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* February 16, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
#8
OK, I am going to tussle with you  ;)


Yup  ... All of that what you said, and guess what?  In most other programs when I change the configuration, the system automatically updates a "configuration" file to reflect those settings, so that when I load the program again the configuration is "all set" and displayed. In other programs I use, as I stated earlier, all you have to do is copy the config file into the appropriate folder on a new computer and you are good to go.

Now then, what about TurboCad??? I can change a position of a menu, close my drawing, and when I load TC up again with any drawing my menus are laid out as before. WOW ... AUTOMATICALLY Just like other programs.

OK, where is the settings file that TurboCad uses to do this sticky layout? Where and what is the file that contains this memorized information? It is somewhere. It is named something. I would think that there is a named file that I can grab and use like I do for other programs.

I ask this to see what somebody's " little research and study" reveals.  I have changed stuff all over the place and I have not had to save ANY configuration and yet there is my menu and custom buttons laid out just like I left them  .. leading me (until a TC crash or a migration to a new computer), to believe that there is no reason to manually save a configuration.  Certainly, the TC help does not say that you have to do a manual "Save In" in order to really, really, save your configuration for use elsewhere. Indeed, the very behavior introduces an ambiguity of result, and leads a user to believe that you do NOT have to do a manual save in order to save a configuration, and that it is done automatically, because automatic saving of the configuration is being done right before the users eyes.

I should not have to hunt and peck and research and study past the Help. That is what the help is for, to tell users what is going on ... and what is not going on ... especially when the system behaves as if something is going on that really is not.


 The Challenge: I will pay 13 cents, via PayPal, to the first person that tells me the name and location of the file TurboCad uses to load my menus after I do the following sequential steps in a drawing:


#1 Tools|Customize
#2 Drag a button to a toolbar
#3 Execute a "Close" on the Customize Dialog
#4 Close TurboCad without Saving the Drawing

#5 Reopen TurboCad which shows the button right there on the tool bar where I placed it.

Offer limited to one 13 cent payment. After I pay 13 cents to somebody, regardless of any dispute from others as to the correctness of the answer, no more payments will be made.
 
 ;) ;D

3acorns, It is almost as if you didn't make much effort at all to learn about the Config Folder and Configuration files.  What you are wanting TurboCAD to do- almost exactly as you stated in your quote above- TurboCAD does.  You just have to be willing to research and read.

----
TurboCAD version 11.2 is a much better program- with much less anomalies- than suggested by some of your comments on Posts in this Topic thread and previous Topic threads.  Before we blame the program, make sure we understand the functionalities and how to use the program as it was intended.

A few months ago I posted a Topic on the Tips and Tricks Forum:  http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,9882.msg58324.html#msg58324.  I was referring specifically to version 19, but the same applies here.  I read so many Users wanting to blame or doubt TurboCAD and/or the TurboCAD Team, but they haven't put in the real effort to learn TurboCAD first via the supplied manual.

-Alvin
p.s.: Below is a screen-capture from my Help section of my TurboCAD version 11.2

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Alvin Gregorio
(mostly Residential Architectural 2D; no formal CAD Training; intermittent TurboCAD user since yr. 2000 [ver6.5])
---TurboCAD: V20.2PP(57.0)[as of 3/12/15]; V19DL(54.2); V11.2Pro; Windows-7-Pro/64-bit; Intel-Core-i3 CPU; 2.27ghz; 4GB RAM; Intel HD Graphics (CPU based)


* February 16, 2013, 05:04:50 PM
#9
This is where V11 is in Vista for me. Your current configurations are down in the AppData (Application Data) folder; normally a Hidden folder.

What I've always done in V11 (and before) is go to the "Setup" page of "Tools / Customize", overwrite the current name in the "Save In" list (like you do for Styles) then click on the Save In button. This creates a CFG file in the Config folder (located by your Drawings folder). When necessary, you can call up this configuration from the "Load From" list, then click on the "Load From" button. You can use that CFG file up to Version 17 or 18(?), after that it causes more problems than it's worth.

John R.

Thanks for your speedy reply to the 13 cent Challenge ...
Yes this is true, and I do use this (now) after I doped out that of you reall really want to save a configuration you MUST executes a "Save In"  and indeed these are the updated config files when you execute a " Save In" command.

The question I had, and still have, as a result of my experiences with the program, and the subject of the "13 cent Challenge" is if you customize a toobar and do  not execute a "Save In" command, where does TurboCad store the new configuration and what is that file named.

(Try it, customize a toobar to add a button, do not execute the "Save In"  command, and when you fire up TC the nex time it will be configured the same as when you left it.)


OK, I am going to tussle with you  ;)



----
TurboCAD version 11.2 is a much better program- with much less anomalies- than suggested by some of your comments on Posts in this Topic thread and previous Topic threads.  Before we blame the program, make sure we understand the functionalities and how to use the program as it was intended.

A few months ago I posted a Topic on the Tips and Tricks Forum:  http://forums.turbocad.com/index.php/topic,9882.msg58324.html#msg58324.  I was referring specifically to version 19, but the same applies here.  I read so many Users wanting to blame or doubt TurboCAD and/or the TurboCAD Team, but they haven't put in the real effort to learn TurboCAD first via the supplied manual.

-Alvin
p.s.: Below is a screen-capture from my Help section of my TurboCAD version 11.2


Alvin,

The help does not tell me what I want to know :( ... It is almost as if you did not read my post as to what I wanted in my response to you. Perhaps review my response to John R if you need to revisit what I wanted to know.

As to the other Turbocad items I have posted, Ver 11.2 ( and many of the other subsequent versions) do not do what I have indicated I have wanted it to do. ( that is why I stay at ver 11.2)  For example, it will not allow deletion of items from a stretch. It will not allow me to resize certain dialog boxes, it will not allow me to reorder paperspace tabs like it allows me to reorder layers. It does not allow me to hide a layer by selecting an object on that layer. the BCI tools add in can do this on the earlier versions and gosh, I guess that is why they developed it ... because it was something that TC did not do.

Anyway the question still remains ..... if you customize a toobar and do  not execute a "Save In" command, where does TurboCad store the new configuration and what is that file named? Do you know the answer to that question?





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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 16, 2013, 08:34:53 PM
#10
"The question I had, and still have, as a result of my experiences with the program, and the subject of the "13 cent Challenge" is if you customize a toobar and do  not execute a "Save In" command, where does TurboCad store the new configuration and what is that file named."

In my v11.2 Pro XP installation, it's at C:\Documents and Settings\Valued Customer\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in\desktop.ist. I think this is a "hidden" file by default.

Henry H

Oops. Left out a step in the path. Fixed now.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 10:30:56 AM by Henry Hubich »

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* February 16, 2013, 11:19:24 PM
#11
I agree with Henry. Use Notepad/Wordpad to open "desktop.ist" or "Custom40.cdi" and they both shown tool commands in there. This was shown in the top half of my picture.

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John R.

V17—V21, 2015—2018
Designer, Deluxe, Expert, Basic, Platinum
RedSDK enabled
Windows 10, 64-bit


* February 17, 2013, 06:08:13 AM
#12
Henry and John.....

Thanks. Let me check it out.


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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 17, 2013, 06:51:24 PM
#13
Well, I think Henry nailed it with the most exact answer to the Challenge. John R was right in there neck and neck and it was a photo finish.

The Challenge[/i]"The question I had, and still have, as a result of my experiences with the program, and the subject of the "13 cent Challenge" is if you customize a toolbar and do  not execute a "Save In" command, where does TurboCad store the new configuration and what is that file named."

Henry said ...

Quote
In my v11.2 Pro XP installation, it's at C:\Documents and Settings\Valued Customer\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in\desktop.ist.


So, Henry, message me your email and I will send you your 13 cents via PayPal!  :)
*******************

Supplementing and repeating things, TurboCad does NOT get the display instructions, under the Challenge scenario, from any .cfg files located at C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config

and instead, as Henry specifically stated, uses the file "desktop.ini" located at

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in

This is how TurboCAD can give you back your customized layouts without you ever executing a "SaveIn" from the Tools |Customize.


Here is some other information gleaned:

When TURBOCAD loads, if there is no folder called Config at the following path:

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\

TURBOCAD will

a) create an empty folder "Config" at that location.

[i.e., will do its thing to result in the following path ....C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config]

and

b) will load using the menu and toolbar configuration contained in the file "desktop.ist" located at :

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in

This is all regardless of whether there was, or was not, the Config folder. Also, TurboCAD does not appear to use the custom40.cdi to display the menus and toolbars under the challenge scenario, and also, if there is no custom40.cdi on startup one will be created at close of the program, or when one executes a Tools | Customize |Close

Note that TurboCad loads and displays the last layout of your menu and toolbars from the desktop.ini file and does not use any .cfg files to do this.

The only time(s) the menu and toolbar layout .cfg files in this folder C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config folder are used * is

a)   when the user  executes a "Load From" action by  clicking the  Tools | Customize's dialog box's  "Load From" button. In which case, the existing menu/toolbar layouts are replaced and redisplayed according to the settings of the .cfg file selected. ( presumably with the
file
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in \desktop.ini being updated, or perhaps the update occurring first and then a command executed internally to requery the .ist file)

or,

b) when the user executes a "Save In" action by  clicking the  Tools | Customize's dialog box's  "Save In" button. In which case, the existing menu/toolbar layouts are written into the existing .cfg file that has been selected in the dropdown, or into a new cfg file that will be created and named according to whatever you type into the combobox's text field.

Further Info .....
This folder [C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config] is the default where the configurations that populate the combo box located under the  Tools | Customize's dialog box's  "Load From" button are obtained.

This Folder is also default where the configurations that populate the combo box located under the Tools | Customize's dialog box's   "Save In"  button are obtained.

This Folder is also the default where any new configurations created and Saved using the
Tools | Customize's dialog box's   "Save In"  button are located.

This folder is NOT the folder containing the file used to display the menus and toolbars on startup.


Another thing that happens on startup is that if there is no desktop.ist file, TurboCad will display a default menu and tools layout  (created from where ??? **) and on closing with no Tools |Customize being done, will create a desktop.ist file.which will then be used for the display setting the next startup.

Also, if there is no desktop.ist on startup, TurboCad will display a default menu and tools layout  (created from where ???**) and if one does execute a Tools | Customize ( even without changing any buttons)  and then closes the Tools|Customize dialog, with or without loading a .cfg file a desktop.ist file will be created.

Also, if there is no Built-In folder

ie No [C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\IMSI\TurboCAD\11.0\Professional\Profiles\Built-in] folder

TurboCad will create that folder.


So then, another take away is that if you have gone in and changed your toolbars and not done a "Saved In", or if you have done a "Save In", and somehow the .cfg file gets corrupted, or other things have gotten corrupted, there is a 2d place that you may be able to get your menu and tool layouts settings from  - that "desktop.ist" file.

And last of all of the takeaways, If you really, really, want to save and guard your new configuration you really, really need to execute a "Save In" on the Tools|Customize dialog box. These files are stored outside of the Docs and Settings and will remain after an uninstall.


** I have tested,and it appears that on my system TurboCad Ver. 11.2 Pro, Win xp 1024x768 resolution, this default desktop (if there is no desktop.ist file) is being created from the 1024x768pro.cfg contained in the  C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config folder. Interestingly, if on startup there is NO C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\TurboCAD 11.0\Config folder, TurboCad creates it, and populates it with the files that are installed there on a program install, and then uses a default file ( likely gotten by reading the systems display resolution??) to set up the menus and toolbars, which is then saved to the desktop.ist file when you close the program or execute a Close on the Tools | Customize dialog *, said desktop.ist subsequently being the one used to display the toolbars and menus. 



* or Options | Toolbars and Menus | Customize (the one located topmost in that dialog box)


Likely there are other behaviors that I have not given, and if I have mis-apprehended misstated what is happening, then please post so the rest of the crew interested in such things that happen down in the bowels of the program can be made aware.





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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 17, 2013, 07:20:41 PM
#14
Be aware that file locations in Version 11 don't necessarily apply to later versions, as later TCad versions allow the user to specify nondefault locations for the various parts of the program when installing.

Henry H

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* February 18, 2013, 06:18:22 AM
#15
I was figuring that is was as you say and thanks for confirming that.

Also, thanks for the file and file location answer. It was helpful for things things I was wanting to know.

You 13 cent prize still awaits! (Gotta have some fun while we do this, right.)  :)

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 18, 2013, 12:12:29 PM
#16
Oh.. I just realized that my Options | Program Setup |General "Save Desktop on Exit" box was checked. This undoubtedly is the reason that destop toobar changes are sticky, without executing a "Save In" Command.

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP


* February 18, 2013, 02:17:24 PM
#17
Oh.. I just realized that my Options | Program Setup |General "Save Desktop on Exit" box was checked. This undoubtedly is the reason that destop toobar changes are sticky, without executing a "Save In" Command.

Right. A very handy option at times. Now just wait 'til you "upgrade" to v19 and discover that it's permanently grayed out. Really.

Henry H

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* February 18, 2013, 02:37:37 PM
#18
Ahhh yessss that is a kind of reason why I am sticking to my little ole v 11.2 professional! :)

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V 11.2 Professional Win xP