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Turbo Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: rafter on August 12, 2009, 07:33:23 AM

Title: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 12, 2009, 07:33:23 AM
Has the mirror option changed since V11? I have been using V11 until this year for all of my houseplans I have drawn. In 11 with a little work around it is possible to flip all of my plans with minimal changes. This year I have changed to 16 to do my drawings. This may have been a big mistake. I have a plan that I am trying to flip. In all of my attempts to do this it appears that the left-right orientation of everything changes the plan into a disaster. Is this the norm or maybe I have a setting that is different from 11. Can someone enlighten me on my problem. I have attached the file in question if it will help.
    I hope that there is a way to do this beaus I have spent a month to bring all of my plans up to 16 and I would hate to think I have wasted all that time and money only to go back to 11 again.

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Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 12, 2009, 09:26:11 AM
This is what I get... see attached.

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Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 12, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
That is what I get also. All right-left justification for the walls have been changed. This does not let flipping blueprints in 16 easy.
  Myron   TC16 Pro
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 12, 2009, 12:45:59 PM
One thing I did notice is that not everything is on the same Workplane. If you do a select all, and place everything on the workplane... things get screwed up even before you mirror.

If you can get the workplane problem worked out, that may fix the problem. If not, you can setup a query to change the justification of the walls. I can walk you through the query part if you need it. Not the preferred option, but much better than changing them individually.
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 12, 2009, 01:47:50 PM
In order to draw multiple floors in the same drawing they cannot be on the same workplane. This changed in version 12. For some reason the powers that be decided to change the wall tool. This has been a mess since then. I use the parellel line tool constantly and it requires me to work in 3D for a 2D project. With the floorplans on different workplanes if you use the parallel line tool on an object on one workplane while you are on a different plane the you get the line on the wrong plane and you get a message saying " Selecting the object in 2D changes the drawings workplane". So if you want to use the Parallel line tool you have to work in 3D and keep track of what plane you are on. This feature is really bad for my use. Do you have any suggestions?
  Myron    PS Loved 11, put up with the later versions
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 13, 2009, 05:05:47 AM
Not sure if Select by Query will help in this situation or not. You can setup a Selection by Query to select all the walls that are Left Justified, and change them to Right.. and do the same for the Right Justified walls, and change them to Left.

Give it a try and see if it works for you. If your not sure how to setup the query, let me know and I will assist. I have to leave for a few hours... will be back sometime this afternoon.
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 13, 2009, 01:27:36 PM
Thank you I appreciate your help. I have never used the query before, I looked at the help files but they are of little help. If this is the only way, I would like to learn. I am guessing that I have to enter the query information I am needing.
Myron Wilson TC16 Pro
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 13, 2009, 02:17:35 PM
Before I go through the explanation... is this what you are after? I didn't do anything to the text or dims... but are the walls correct now?

If this is what you are after... I will write out a quick procedure for you to follow to create your query (In the morning sometime ;D). The text and dims can also be selected by a query so they can be fixed too.

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Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 13, 2009, 06:00:53 PM
That looks like what I am after with the walls. When I flip the plan I also flip the dimensions and every thing. But those things are not right- left justified so I can do those. I was able to flip my 3D elevation because I know those are all left justified, with the 2D drawings they can be either. Thank you for the help.
Myron Wilson TC16 Pro
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 14, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Here are the steps.

1. Selection by Query.

2. Choose Criteria

3. Scroll down, and click on the + beside the Wall option

4. Choose Alignment

5. Choose Left

6. Choose Save, and give it a name...  and choose OK

7. Click on OK to run the query (all your walls that are left justified will now be highlighted

8. Right click and choose Properties, choose Wall... then change Left to Right.

Go through the same steps to change the right justified walls to left justified (just choose Right instead of Left in step 5).

Now each time have a drawing you need to do this with, you can just pick the query you want to run from the Named Query List, run it, and do step 8. There is probably a way to use he Macro Recorder to do this too, but I'll leave that up to you.

I hope I didn't miss any steps... so if this doesn't work, let me know and I will go back through it  ::)


Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 14, 2009, 10:19:08 AM
The query part works fine, but, forgot 1 step "select object properties". With that done and upon closer examination: 1) For some reason when the plan is flipped some of the walls, not all, change to center justification and I never choose that option. With center justification set I have got to decide which way to move it. 2) When you change the justification in the first set those sane walls will be selected in the second change. I think I may be able to get around this if I put the changed walls on a temporary layer and turn it off. But that does not explain the walls that change to center justification. This really seems to be a major flaw, I am suprised that others that do architectural applications have not said something earlier. I will keep experimenting, if you have any other suggestions please let me know. I looks as tho I may have to go back to 11 until they decide to make a change. To bad, I was getting to like 16
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 14, 2009, 11:28:47 AM
Try this instead... seems to do what you are wanting.

1. Select all the objects that you are wanting to mirror.

2. Type in -1 in the Scale X field of the Inspector Bar.

I didn't look real close... but it seems the walls don't change their orientation this way.

This was the first thing I tried when you first posted... but since I put everything on the same workplane, it didn't work as expected... duh.

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Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 17, 2009, 06:50:43 PM
Thanks for all of the help you have given me on my problem and I have attempted to use your Ideas an tips to flip a few of my plans. Each of them work for different parts of the process but none of them provide an effective way to flip a plan without a lot of redrawing. When IMSI made the changes to the architectural tools they failed to consider what happens if you need to flip a plan. I will probably continue to use TC11 for my business and just dabble in the newer versions. If there are other possibilities I would be interested in trying them. I find it hard to believe this problem has not come up before.
     I hope someone at IMSI understands the problem and will think of a solution. If you can flip some but not all what good is it.
   Myron Wilson TC16 to 11 Pro
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: GregT on August 18, 2009, 01:29:50 AM
Sorry I couldn't be more help, Myron. Hopefully someone from IMSI/Design will respond with a solution to your problem... it has to be very frustrating.

I haven't done any architectural drawings since v11 or v12, so I haven't kept up with the bugs and program changes in that area.
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: DTTurbocad on August 18, 2009, 09:53:39 AM
Myron let me work with the developers on this problem.  Unfortunately the timing is such that it will have to wait a week as the main engineer that would be able to help is out for a week on vacation.   

I have played with this a bit and can get it close with the exception of the dimensions and your grouped text which we are now discussing internally and will need to discuss with development. It is our believe that the dimension text should still be facing the camera essentially ignoring the mirror procedure.

The technique thus far is
1. select all.
2. Mirror copy.
3. Select all go to properties.
4. go the the text section - because your text is center justified simply choose "backwards" then OK.

The final step and probably most time consuming is then to select your dims individually and ratote then 180 on the appropriate axis using the 3D selector.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Mirror image
Post by: rafter on August 19, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
A possible answer to flipping a 2D, 3D floorplan. Not simple but it may save some time over a complete redraw.
   To Greg T., thanks for all the help, the information on query, with a little different application was a big help in correcting the walls when flipped. The entire flip still requires several hours to complete but it beats redrawing.
   To Dave Taylor I look forward to a hopefuly simpler answer and maybe an improvement in 17 and I appreciate the response.
I have attached the way I have come up with to flip the plan in the first post if it will help the developers.
   Myron Wilson TC16Pro

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