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Plug-In Palace => Animation Lab => Topic started by: Joel on December 22, 2017, 12:49:35 PM

Title: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 22, 2017, 12:49:35 PM
So I finally got around to upgrading to TC 2017 Platinum. I downloaded the LW and AL files from the 2017 updates section and got everything installed. When I first tried to use AL it crashed 100% of the time. I would just hover over the AL pallet and TC would crash, sometimes I could get the pallet to open, but running the animation would crash.

What I noticed is as it's running the animation, it would start OK, then the animation would start to render in the main TC window followed by a crash. I'd get a pop up about running out of memory which is non-sense, I'm using 3GB out of 32GB. After uninstalling and reinstalling AL several times I finally got it to play a wire frame version ( it initially crashed with the wire frame model ). After that, I could render my drawing and play the animation. What I notice now is the TC window closes down while the animation is being rendered, what it used to do before upgrading.

I still have a crash issue though. I notice that if I render the drawing first, then try to open the AL pallet, TC will crash every time. If I open the AL pallet while the drawing is still a wire frame, it will work fine. I can then close the pallet render the drawing, and the AL pallet will reopen fine. Seems I need to open the AL pallet at least once first before rendering the drawing.

If attached the project if anyone wants to try and reproduce ( see if it's just me ). I render with LightWorks, ray traced, standard.

Joel
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Dean on December 22, 2017, 01:25:13 PM
So I finally got around to upgrading to TC 2017 Platinum. I downloaded the LW and AL files from the 2017 updates section and got everything installed. When I first tried to use AL it crashed 100% of the time. I would just hover over the AL pallet and TC would crash, sometimes I could get the pallet to open, but running the animation would crash.

What I noticed is as it's running the animation, it would start OK, then the animation would start to render in the main TC window followed by a crash. I'd get a pop up about running out of memory which is non-sense, I'm using 3GB out of 32GB. After uninstalling and reinstalling AL several times I finally got it to play a wire frame version ( it initially crashed with the wire frame model ). After that, I could render my drawing and play the animation. What I notice now is the TC window closes down while the animation is being rendered, what it used to do before upgrading.

I still have a crash issue though. I notice that if I render the drawing first, then try to open the AL pallet, TC will crash every time. If I open the AL pallet while the drawing is still a wire frame, it will work fine. I can then close the pallet render the drawing, and the AL pallet will reopen fine. Seems I need to open the AL pallet at least once first before rendering the drawing.

If attached the project if anyone wants to try and reproduce ( see if it's just me ). I render with LightWorks, ray traced, standard.

Joel

Hi Joel,

See attachment.

I don't get any crashes but I have been getting the Anilab window rendering in Modelspace when it should be rendering on the desktop.This doesn't happen all the time so it's very difficult to catch the cause.
 Whenever Anilab  does that I get the message seen in my attachment.
Usually what fixes it is a complete uninstall of Anilab then a re-boot of my computer then re-install Anilab.
After that Anilab is working as expected and rendering to the desktop with no pop up message.
Have you tried working in GDI mode after a fresh re-boot?




Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Tim Stewart on December 22, 2017, 01:28:51 PM
Hi Joel,

it rendered okay, the Animationlab Palette opened without problems and the animation completed without issue.

Just a thought - are you running with all 64-bit versions of TurboCAD and plug-ins?

Regards Tim
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 22, 2017, 01:58:28 PM
Ya, there all the 64bit versions.

I just went back and tried again in GDI mode. Same result, if I render first then try to open the AL pallet, TC crashes.

Not sure what's going on. I do recall fighting with AL in 2016 initially but eventually it would work as expected.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 22, 2017, 02:29:21 PM
Hey Joel, Jeff discovered amongst others that in the readme file that imsi mentions a folder path to a dll that by default is not installed with the 64bit version. Its only setup and created/installed with the 32bit version. Once I installed tcw pp 2017 32bit version, Turbocad 2017 64bit versions stability issues were solved.

So check for yourself in the readme file for the folder path (  about 3/4 into the file ) and see if that folder exists, if not then dload and install tcw 32bit.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 22, 2017, 04:55:57 PM
Tried loading AL 32bit, no change. Still crashes 100% of the time for me if I render before opening the AL pallet.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Andy H on December 22, 2017, 05:29:26 PM
struggling to duplicate your problem,   I closed the AL palette, and closed TC,  opened TC, opened your drawing, added brass materials (I don't have Lightworks),  rendered quality render,  open Al palette using the AL icon, it opened ok and ran the animation.

Have you tried  options menu - Reload AnimationLab HTML.    I'll be honest I've no idea really what it does, but when I've had AL animation window problems, I've used that and things went OK, but I don't know if it was just pure coincidence,  one of these days I'll de-compile it and see if I can figure out what it does.

   
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 22, 2017, 06:05:00 PM
I'm using LW in Advanced rendering. I notice if I use LW in Quality rendering, It works OK. Does not make sense to me.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 22, 2017, 06:54:15 PM
Joel downloading your tcw file now, get back with results in a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: John R on December 22, 2017, 11:40:47 PM
My try with your file set to 1920×1080. They should put a "Tile Area" setting on the "Frames" page, otherwise the animation shows ‘tiled’ frames. I had to set the "BMP File Export" page in "Save As" to "3" to get a proper render/animation. A little over 3 hours to animate. TurboCAD never made it to 1GB during the animation. I used "Advanced, LightWorks, Presentation 10m" for rendering.

Joel gear pair anim 02 (https://youtu.be/xfci9rYRghs)
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 23, 2017, 06:55:11 AM
My problem starts before I even get that far. TC crashes when I try to open the AL pallet. If I open it first ( before rendering my image with advanced render ), it works fine. Now, TC + AL has gone from totally dysfunctional to workable by going through several uninstall/install steps. Seems there is something to what Aussie mentioned that the AL install doesn't install everything needed and through the process of trying, something slowly gets fixed.

I tried your settings, the animation went from about 3 minutes to complete to 2 Hrs, interesting.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 23, 2017, 08:52:16 AM
I tried a few more experiments, first I uninstalled everything, cleaned, and rebooted. I reinstalled TC, ran it, rebooted. I installed AL, rebooted, ran the AL setup and launched TC the first time with the AL launcher, rebooted. I installed lightworks, rebooted. I launched TC, opened my drawing rendered it with Advanced LW, tried to open the AL pallet, TC crashed. I restarted TC, changed materials to RedSDK set advanced rendering to use RedSDK, rendered the drawing, AL pallet opened fine. I shut down TC, restarted TC, rendered the drawing with advanced RedSDK, the AL pallet opened fine. I redefined the materials back to LW and the advanced renderer to LW, saved my drawing, shutdown TC ( AL pallet had already been opened, so would work ). I restarted TC, rendered my drawing with advanced/LW, tried to open the AL pallet, TC crashed. I restarted TC, rendered my drawing with quality rendering/LW, the AL pallet opens OK.

It seems my issue is opening the AL pallet for the first time right after rendering my drawing using advanced rendering and LW.

If I open the AL pallet once before doing an advanced LW render, it will work fine after that until the next launch of TC.

I can work with this, just odd that no one else seems to be able to duplicate the problem.

I'll add HW specifics,

Win 10 Enterprise build 1709
ASRock Taichi X399 MB
AMD Threadripper 1920X ( no over clock )
32GB ECC ram at 2666
NV GTX 1070
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Dean on December 23, 2017, 11:01:56 AM
"It seems my issue is opening the AL pallet for the first time right after rendering my drawing using advanced rendering and LW. "

Joel,
I can replicate that. =white screen then crash

Send in your complaint to IMSI along with your file and that reference,
Good luck  ;D
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 02:05:43 PM
Joel I tried your file and it aimated and rendered fine in Lightworks Quality Ray Trace.

Dean when you say "Whenever Anilab  does that I get the message seen in my attachment. Usually what fixes it is a complete uninstall of Anilab then a re-boot of my computer then re-install Anilab." So how often do you get that error?
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 02:22:50 PM
Hey Joel Im on my mobile ( cell ) atm, just tried your steps from
On a older toshiba laptop now running an original win 10 (  thats the original build with no updates ) and it runs and renders fine.

Just wondering if its problems with the latest Win 10 updates?

On my main desktop pc where I do all my work the updates version
Is not 1709. If I remember correctly I stopped updates at around 3GB as I heard/seen reported many win 10 issues. All my udates where done manually.

Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 02:38:01 PM
Rereading your post #11, it appears to be Lightworks issues and conflicts! I run exactly the same installed files as you.

So Im gunna stick with your problems until we get it resolved,  therefore send/attach:
1. System information files
2. Version info for all common files ( tcw, lw, anilab )
3. Virus protection info/installed app
4. Devices installed/ possible conflict stuff
5. Screen resolution & number of monitors
( screen shot  your tcw main window(s)


Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 23, 2017, 03:20:02 PM
Attached are a screen shot of my TCW window and a sys info dump from TCW

I use ESET Internet Security, always up to date.

I use two HP Z27S displays on the GTX 1070 running at 4K

TCW is rev 24 build 62.2
AL and LW are as on the updates and patched page as of two days ago.

I notice you say you try with quality render, it fails for me with advanced render + LW, quality works OK.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 23, 2017, 03:27:45 PM
Now I know I am not alone. Hopefully there is a solution, though the impact is low. Fits in that category of " don't do that "

Now one just has to wonder what other evils are lurking......

"It seems my issue is opening the AL pallet for the first time right after rendering my drawing using advanced rendering and LW. "

Joel,
I can replicate that. =white screen then crash

Send in your complaint to IMSI along with your file and that reference,
Good luck  ;D
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 03:43:00 PM
Just downloaded your stuff and will compare with mine, Is TCStartup.exe running in the background, normally changed by the program setup page, uncheck this one.

In the short term modify your screen display and set all tcw window displays on one monitor only, place anilab inside the design director and dont run it as stand alone ( outside of the design director ). Run the design director within the tcw window on one monitor as well.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 03:54:25 PM
Just did a quick search of your prior posts etc, your nvidia GTX 1060 may cause issues etc ( read may ). I got similar problems popping up everywhere with tcw2016/2017 and the final fix was like I said in.

Hey Joel, Jeff discovered amongst others that in the readme file that imsi mentions a folder path to a dll that by default is not installed with the 64bit version. Its only setup and created/installed with the 32bit version. Once I installed tcw pp 2017 32bit version, Turbocad 2017 64bit versions stability issues were solved.

So check for yourself in the readme file for the folder path (  about 3/4 into the file ) and see if that folder exists, if not then dload and install tcw 32bit.

Check for the latest update on your graphics card, also try to downgrade to a lower driver for the card also, I regularly get pop ups when online for nvidia updates and I remember reading somewhere that while the drivers are mostly conflict free issues may crop up with other apps not related to games.

Have you setup any special actions from the nvidia control center specifically for your TurboCAD version? I did sometime back and I eventually changed it so that nvidia no longer worked with tcw directly!
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on December 23, 2017, 08:28:16 PM
Screen dumps of your setup with dual monitors?
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on December 24, 2017, 07:57:02 PM
No special setups in graphics driver, everything is out of box.

When running TC, I use full screen on one display, the other is usually just the background.

I may reinstall 2016 and verify if I had an issue there or not.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on January 06, 2018, 05:58:51 AM
So I was looking through some old threads and it seems that this issue has been around a while. "I" started this same kind of thread about a year ago trying AL on TC2015. Go figure.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on January 08, 2018, 07:40:32 AM
I got around to testing this on 2016 again, and it does have the same issue. Seems this has been a persistent problem. I guess I expect that.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: [email protected] on January 08, 2018, 01:45:35 PM
Hey Joel Im on the road atm so I cant offer much. Fwiw like said b4 we share the same setup so as soon as I get back to my desk U will help.

Rely on Andy & Tim they've got heaps of experience.

Try setting up as a new user on your pc and run tcw and al from there. Do you get the same issues.

Look into Alvins Gregorios recent post on problems.
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Andy H on January 09, 2018, 09:34:04 AM
Rely on Andy & Tim they've got heaps of experience.

Daz,  I don't have Lightworks so cannot test anything to do with that these days,  I did try with RedSDK and its fine using Advanced render.

I wonder if Dean was using Lightworks when he could duplicate the problem, and if so, whether it works Ok for Dean in RedSDK advanced render. 
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Dean on January 09, 2018, 10:26:14 AM
Rely on Andy & Tim they've got heaps of experience.

Daz,  I don't have Lightworks so cannot test anything to do with that these days,  I did try with RedSDK and its fine using Advanced render.

I wonder if Dean was using Lightworks when he could duplicate the problem, and if so, whether it works Ok for Dean in RedSDK advanced render.

yeah, Andy. I was using LW. That was how the drawing was set up and it freezes up TC from v20 till 2017.
There's no freezing up when using RedSdk AR render style. ;D

I'm not 100% sure if the issue is with Anilab because this year something has changed for me using windows 7.
Not even using Anilab I can only render with the LW AR render styles while in GDI mode with 'open GL" un checked. This isuue is in 2015, 2016 and 2017.
And of course V21 doesn't suffer from this.
My guess is something changed with windows 7 or something was added/changed in these updated "new' TC builds, could even be a compatibility issue,display adapter etc..
I can only blame Redstuff  ;D
Title: Re: Al crashing Turbocad 2017
Post by: Joel on January 11, 2018, 05:14:58 AM
When I was running 2015, I was also on Win 7, Now I'm on Win 10, so it seems to be Win version independent. I did not have AL prior to 2015, though I've had TC since around version 4.