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Turbo Talk => Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: Henry Hubich on April 02, 2016, 11:40:32 AM

Title: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 02, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
Just finished an article that introduces TCad's "Surface from Law" tool. Fifty-three pages, 49 illustrations, and a bazillion mathematical formulas. This is a mathematical tool and there's no way to treat it non-mathematically, but anyone who's comfortable with high-school algebra and understands sines and cosines should have no trouble following the article. Staying awake is another matter. The article isn't really a tutorial; more like a short textbook, but heaven knows there are many more aspects of this tool than I touched upon.

Download it here.

Henry H

EDIT: The table on Page 17 contains errors. I have deleted the original article and attached the corrected version in its place. I've also attached a screenshot of the corrected table.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Jeffin90620 on April 02, 2016, 01:49:42 PM
Gave it a quick once-over and read a couple pages; it is a fascinating primer on how to use this functionality.

Thanks, Henry.


Jeff
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Andy H on April 02, 2016, 01:54:57 PM
Wow, thanks for doing this Henry.

Only had a quick look up to now as its going to take reading it quite a few times to try and sink in to my non-mathematical brain.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Tim Stewart on April 02, 2016, 02:21:40 PM
Henry,

thank you.
I'm looking forward to studying your latest . . . whatever!

Regards Tim
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Majo on April 02, 2016, 04:10:46 PM
Thank you very much Henry, it's completely Help to this tool
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Ken Simmons on April 03, 2016, 11:09:18 AM
Thanks for the tutorial Henry. This is just one reason to brush up on math, the other one is astronomy (measuring binary stars). I haven't checked but do the other CAD programs have a similar "Laws" tools, I sure they do. (Autocad, Solidworks, ect.)
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Stefaan on April 03, 2016, 12:11:19 PM
Impressive short txt book Henry...Thank you to help us out with this!!
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 13, 2016, 07:41:49 AM
Henry,

Thank you for the excellent document!

btw, it appears that using the sqrt function in the Surfrace from Law tool causes tcad to crash, like, z(u,v)=sqrt(u*2)

Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 13, 2016, 08:03:19 AM
Henry,

Thank you for the excellent document!

btw, it appears that using the sqrt function in the Surfrace from Law tool causes tcad to crash, like, z(u,v)=sqrt(u*2)

Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks
Kevin

I've had problems with the sqrt function, too. Instead of sqrt(x), I now use abs(x)^.5 with no trouble.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 13, 2016, 08:24:45 AM
Not sure why but abs(u)^.5 is not working for me either.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 13, 2016, 10:19:14 AM
Not sure why but abs(u)^.5 is not working for me either.

Care to post the X, Y, and Z Laws you're working with?

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 13, 2016, 12:40:32 PM
Certainly,

Using the Surface from Law tool, I used

x(u,v) = u
y(u,v) = v
z(u,v) = abs(u)^.5

Thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 13, 2016, 01:08:41 PM
I should note to that the crash does not show up until you click on the model space.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 13, 2016, 01:10:18 PM
Certainly,

Using the Surface from Law tool, I used

x(u,v) = u
y(u,v) = v
z(u,v) = abs(u)^.5

Thanks
Kevin

Strange. Works fine for me.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: John R on April 13, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
Crashed for me also. It generated a UE and sent the report to SoftDev.

On a second crash, I answered "No" and copied the M$ report.
Code: [Select]
Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
  Application Name: tcw23.exe
  Application Version: 23.0.23.1
  Application Timestamp: 56f9cbca
  Fault Module Name: MSVCR100.dll
  Fault Module Version: 10.0.40219.1
  Fault Module Timestamp: 4d5f034a
  Exception Code: 40000015
  Exception Offset: 00000000000761c9
  OS Version: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.256.6
  Locale ID: 1033
  Additional Information 1: c457
  Additional Information 2: d152718b5945b031752a3c3117d3d332
  Additional Information 3: 7791
  Additional Information 4: 568dad990b75121c0f3882a6e539fd4b
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Dean on April 13, 2016, 04:35:51 PM
It worked ok for me, using Henry's image
The other shape has six sqrt(2) in the formula = no problem either.

What version are you using, kevin, 32 or 64 bit?
Maybe something got corrupt, though I would double check your formulas.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: John R on April 13, 2016, 10:06:54 PM
I tried the formula in Windows 10 and it crashed there.

Vista w/Platinum 64bit - crashed
Win 10 w/Platinum 64bit - crashed
Win 7 w/Pro Basic 32bit - no tool
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 14, 2016, 04:01:08 AM
I was using 64 bit before, but, I just installed the 32 bit on Win 7 w/Platinum and getting the same error that I did on the 64 bit version.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Dean on April 14, 2016, 05:49:53 AM
I was using 64 bit before, but, I just installed the 32 bit on Win 7 w/Platinum and getting the same error that I did on the 64 bit version.

Ok, :P
I think I found the "Bugger"
> see attachment try these "ACIS" setttings > before you create the law  ;D
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: me262 on April 14, 2016, 06:31:55 AM

Hey, that worked !!   ;D

Thanks!

Kevin

Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: John R on April 14, 2016, 10:00:36 AM
re: …try these "ACIS" settings before you create the law.

I think you only need to turn "Degenerative Faceting" OFF.

Thank you Dean for the useful info.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: DTTurbocad on April 14, 2016, 10:13:55 AM
Amazing Henry...Thanks!
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 14, 2016, 09:18:28 PM
re: …try these "ACIS" settings before you create the law.

I think you only need to turn "Degenerative Faceting" OFF.

Thank you Dean for the useful info.

Yup. That's it. I almost never have Degen ON.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Bill G on April 22, 2016, 09:25:11 PM
Hi Henry,

Is this a "2016" tool only, or is it present in 2015?
 
BG
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on April 23, 2016, 07:23:31 AM
Hi Henry,

Is this a "2016" tool only, or is it present in 2015?
 
BG

It's new in 2016, Bill.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Hemmex on August 03, 2016, 11:11:29 PM
Hi Henry,

Is this a "2016" the bathmate tool (https://peblueprint.com/bathmate-review) only, or is it present in 2015?
 
BG

Looks like a great tool thanks! Are there any video tutorials of how to use it anywhere?
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Andy H on August 04, 2016, 09:34:41 AM
Looks like a great tool thanks! Are there any video tutorials of how to use it anywhere?

There are a couple of short video's done by IMSI, they are more of an overview than a tutorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLkOF9pW4H0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLkOF9pW4H0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9eQZCppJ5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9eQZCppJ5s)
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: John B. on August 05, 2016, 03:48:04 PM
Just by chance I saw a video about Surface Laws and by coincidence I found this thread and downloaded it and like everyone else read it word for word but I can't seem to find which toolbar or drop-down window the Law is found in.  I looked on the 2016 desktop and looked at all the toolbars and menus and I can't find it.

John B.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: willeng on August 05, 2016, 03:56:53 PM
Hi John,

Draw - 3D Object - 3D Law Object

Cheers
David
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: John B. on August 05, 2016, 04:14:56 PM
I went to Draw/3D Object but there was no 3D Law so I looked in Customize/Commands/3D Object and found Surface With Law and dragged it to Draw/3D Object and pasted it there.

Cheers David,

John B.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on November 03, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Page 17 of the article contains some errors. My thanks to Igorun for finding them. See the original post at the top of this thread for corrections.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: nikkipollard on December 12, 2017, 05:06:19 AM
I finally got around to start reading this article. Thanks Henry it is a fantastic article
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: Henry Hubich on December 12, 2017, 08:38:05 AM
I finally got around to start reading this article. Thanks Henry it is a fantastic article

Thank you, Nikki.

Henry H
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: drajer on January 21, 2018, 04:03:08 AM
That borders on a doctoral thesis!
Thank you Henry.
Title: Re: The "Surface from Law" tool
Post by: 9dms9 on February 04, 2018, 07:49:31 AM
Thanks Henry.

I have a small guitar part (a truss rod cover) whose shape follows a parabola with formula y = 1/3 x^2. [I don't think that this is a concidence because the designer, Brian May, was a maths whizz!] It can be created easily enough with a spline or bezier curve, obviously, but I did wonder while designing this whether it was possible to create a complicated object such as a surface from a law/mathematical expression.

I will take a look at this when I have some spare time. It might prove useful in future endeavors.

Doug